Re: Just had a break-through memory

October 23, 2009

I tried that too when I was grown. Went over unlike I planned it would...

In a message dated 10/23/2009 4:03:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddog@... writes:

nada demanded respect too....I yelled at her when I was in high school that

she needs to EARN my respect...that didn't go over very well !!

Jackie

YES. My parents DEMANDED respect from me, but would laugh at me in similar

situations. None of us were safe, mentally, emotionally safe as children.

That really, really wears on you. I see my brother doing it to his

daughters, and I can see, as an adult, that it is really shitty. I can see

the bullying. I can see that I was not just " being sensitive " . Of course

I'm sensitive, you a-holes! I am a kid, and you know more than me, and I

don't understand everything, and you are bigger than me, and when I'm hurt

or confused YOU MOCK ME. That is horrible!

-Deanna

October 23, 2009

I think different people cope with stress and anxiety in different ways, and

having a scary, unpredictable, angry, perfectionistic, critical, violent,

abusive parent is a really good way to stress the hell out of a child and make

him or her terribly anxious.

Obsessive-compulsive behaviors are one way of distracting oneself from anxious

thoughts, dread, and fear.

I became a nervous, jittery wreck; I'd bite my nails until they'd bleed, would

startle easily, and suffered from horrible nightmares. I pulled at one earlobe

until it became noticeably longer than the other. Sister twisted her hair around

her fingers compulsively, even pulled it out sometimes, and sucked her thumb up

until about age 9 or so. We were both rather like little robots; we never got in

trouble at school or called attention to ourselves if we could help it. We

played quietly, stayed neat, and spent as much time outside (away from nada) as

we could; we were too terrified to do anything really overtly bad or rebellious.

And we would be humiliated by nada for having these nervous habits, for being

shy and withdrawn; we were made to feel ashamed for unconsciously expressing the

anxiety that she gave us in the first place.

Talk about mental torture!

Thanks, nada.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a

> sudden I remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it

is.

> I feel like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade

> for the whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them

> because I felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I

> KNEW that was not possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway,

> sort of like a superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done

> anything like that since and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel

like I

> am some kind of crazy person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was

> that something as benign as a silly kids game? If so why would I do that

> for a whole year? Bizarre.

> > >

> >

>

October 23, 2009

OMG, my sister bit her nails until they bled, and I twirled my hair around

my finger, sometimes pulling it out too !! my sister also picks at her

scabs... my nada would tell people about our habits ( my oldest brother, the

golden child still blinks very fast...almost trance like, he never " out

grew " his OCD, but then, he never " left " nada either, like the rest of us

did) and then laugh at how idiotic we were to do such stupid things to

ourselves...

Jackie

I became a nervous, jittery wreck; I'd bite my nails until they'd bleed,

would startle easily, and suffered from horrible nightmares. I pulled at one

earlobe until it became noticeably longer than the other. Sister twisted her

hair around her fingers compulsively, even pulled it out sometimes, and

sucked her thumb up until about age 9 or so. We were both rather like little

robots; we never got in trouble at school or called attention to ourselves

if we could help it. We played quietly, stayed neat, and spent as much time

outside (away from nada) as we could; we were too terrified to do anything

really overtly bad or rebellious. And we would be humiliated by nada for

having these nervous habits, for being shy and withdrawn; we were made to

feel ashamed for unconsciously expressing the anxiety that she gave us in

the first place.

Talk about mental torture!

Thanks, nada.

-Annie

October 23, 2009

Its eerie how similar our traumas are, sometimes! How can the non-pd parent, or

the relatives, or the neighbors, or the teachers, or the doctors, *willfully

ignore* such things is what I want to know.

All the signs of abuse are there for eyes to see that choose to.

-Annie

>

> OMG, my sister bit her nails until they bled, and I twirled my hair around

> my finger, sometimes pulling it out too !! my sister also picks at her

> scabs... my nada would tell people about our habits ( my oldest brother, the

> golden child still blinks very fast...almost trance like, he never " out

> grew " his OCD, but then, he never " left " nada either, like the rest of us

> did) and then laugh at how idiotic we were to do such stupid things to

> ourselves...

>

> Jackie

>

> I became a nervous, jittery wreck; I'd bite my nails until they'd bleed,

> would startle easily, and suffered from horrible nightmares. I pulled at one

> earlobe until it became noticeably longer than the other. Sister twisted her

> hair around her fingers compulsively, even pulled it out sometimes, and

> sucked her thumb up until about age 9 or so. We were both rather like little

> robots; we never got in trouble at school or called attention to ourselves

> if we could help it. We played quietly, stayed neat, and spent as much time

> outside (away from nada) as we could; we were too terrified to do anything

> really overtly bad or rebellious. And we would be humiliated by nada for

> having these nervous habits, for being shy and withdrawn; we were made to

> feel ashamed for unconsciously expressing the anxiety that she gave us in

> the first place.

>

> Talk about mental torture!

>

> Thanks, nada.

>

> -Annie

>

October 23, 2009

God, that is so cruel to laugh at a child who is genuinely frightened.

So cruel and sadistic.

Yes, its the *pervasive environment* of daily emotional stress that does the

worst damage. As children we swam in anxiety and fear and *despair* the way a

fish swims in water; it was our reality and our

" normal. " Its truly a miracle that we didn't commit suicide as kids or teens;

we must have cores of steel to have survived all that.

-Annie

>

> Yep...I was constantly told I was ridiculous. I once wrapped a hair around

> my finger in the car. I was a really nervous child anyway but I couldn't

> get it off and my finger started turning blue (I actually smile when I write

> that now, but at the time it wasn't funny at all). My dad blurts out, " Oh,

> great, your finger is going to fall off. " That's all it took to bring me

> to hysterical tears and both he and my mother started laughing at me,

> telling me to stop crying and that I was being ridiculous.

>

> And it's like anything with BPD...this moment in and of itself was not some

> life altering event that made me have PTSD and DID and everything in

> between and to have low self esteem and caused me to second guess my every

> move...it was ALL of these things combined that created the reactions and

> responses I had.

>

> In a message dated 10/23/2009 1:27:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> sleddog@... writes:

>

> OMG, my sister bit her nails until they bled, and I twirled my hair around

> my finger, sometimes pulling it out too !! my sister also picks at her

> scabs... my nada would tell people about our habits ( my oldest brother,

> the

> golden child still blinks very fast...almost trance like, he never " out

> grew " his OCD, but then, he never " left " nada either, like the rest of us

> did) and then laugh at how idiotic we were to do such stupid things to

> ourselves...

>

> Jackie

>

> I became a nervous, jittery wreck; I'd bite my nails until they'd bleed,

> would startle easily, and suffered from horrible nightmares. I pulled at

> one

> earlobe until it became noticeably longer than the other. Sister twisted

> her

> hair around her fingers compulsively, even pulled it out sometimes, and

> sucked her thumb up until about age 9 or so. We were both rather like

> little

> robots; we never got in trouble at school or called attention to ourselves

> if we could help it. We played quietly, stayed neat, and spent as much

> time

> outside (away from nada) as we could; we were too terrified to do anything

> really overtly bad or rebellious. And we would be humiliated by nada for

> having these nervous habits, for being shy and withdrawn; we were made to

> feel ashamed for unconsciously expressing the anxiety that she gave us in

> the first place.

>

> Talk about mental torture!

>

> Thanks, nada.

>

> -Annie

>

October 23, 2009

exactly !! and this was going on since you were born !!

Jackie

Yep...I was constantly told I was ridiculous. I once wrapped a hair around

my finger in the car. I was a really nervous child anyway but I couldn't

get it off and my finger started turning blue (I actually smile when I write

that now, but at the time it wasn't funny at all). My dad blurts out, " Oh,

great, your finger is going to fall off. " That's all it took to bring me

to hysterical tears and both he and my mother started laughing at me,

telling me to stop crying and that I was being ridiculous.

And it's like anything with BPD...this moment in and of itself was not some

life altering event that made me have PTSD and DID and everything in

between and to have low self esteem and caused me to second guess my every

move...it was ALL of these things combined that created the reactions and

responses I had.

October 23, 2009

YES. My parents DEMANDED respect from me, but would laugh at me in similar

situations. None of us were safe, mentally, emotionally safe as children. That

really, really wears on you. I see my brother doing it to his daughters, and I

can see, as an adult, that it is really shitty. I can see the bullying. I can

see that I was not just " being sensitive " . Of course I'm sensitive, you

a-holes! I am a kid, and you know more than me, and I don't understand

everything, and you are bigger than me, and when I'm hurt or confused YOU MOCK

ME. That is horrible!

-Deanna

>

> Yep...I was constantly told I was ridiculous. I once wrapped a hair around

> my finger in the car. I was a really nervous child anyway but I couldn't

> get it off and my finger started turning blue (I actually smile when I write

> that now, but at the time it wasn't funny at all). My dad blurts out, " Oh,

> great, your finger is going to fall off. " That's all it took to bring me

> to hysterical tears and both he and my mother started laughing at me,

> telling me to stop crying and that I was being ridiculous.

>

> And it's like anything with BPD...this moment in and of itself was not some

> life altering event that made me have PTSD and DID and everything in

> between and to have low self esteem and caused me to second guess my every

> move...it was ALL of these things combined that created the reactions and

> responses I had.

>

> In a message dated 10/23/2009 1:27:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> sleddog@... writes:

>

> OMG, my sister bit her nails until they bled, and I twirled my hair around

> my finger, sometimes pulling it out too !! my sister also picks at her

> scabs... my nada would tell people about our habits ( my oldest brother,

> the

> golden child still blinks very fast...almost trance like, he never " out

> grew " his OCD, but then, he never " left " nada either, like the rest of us

> did) and then laugh at how idiotic we were to do such stupid things to

> ourselves...

>

> Jackie

>

> I became a nervous, jittery wreck; I'd bite my nails until they'd bleed,

> would startle easily, and suffered from horrible nightmares. I pulled at

> one

> earlobe until it became noticeably longer than the other. Sister twisted

> her

> hair around her fingers compulsively, even pulled it out sometimes, and

> sucked her thumb up until about age 9 or so. We were both rather like

> little

> robots; we never got in trouble at school or called attention to ourselves

> if we could help it. We played quietly, stayed neat, and spent as much

> time

> outside (away from nada) as we could; we were too terrified to do anything

> really overtly bad or rebellious. And we would be humiliated by nada for

> having these nervous habits, for being shy and withdrawn; we were made to

> feel ashamed for unconsciously expressing the anxiety that she gave us in

> the first place.

>

> Talk about mental torture!

>

> Thanks, nada.

>

> -Annie

>

October 23, 2009

nada demanded respect too....I yelled at her when I was in high school that

she needs to EARN my respect...that didn't go over very well !!

Jackie

YES. My parents DEMANDED respect from me, but would laugh at me in similar

situations. None of us were safe, mentally, emotionally safe as children.

That really, really wears on you. I see my brother doing it to his

daughters, and I can see, as an adult, that it is really shitty. I can see

the bullying. I can see that I was not just " being sensitive " . Of course

I'm sensitive, you a-holes! I am a kid, and you know more than me, and I

don't understand everything, and you are bigger than me, and when I'm hurt

or confused YOU MOCK ME. That is horrible!

-Deanna

October 24, 2009

Another nail-biter until they bled here...I'd also chew at any frayed cuticles

until they were more like wounds.The state of my fingers was so bad in second

grade that my teacher took it upon herself to admonish me to stop whenever she

saw me doing it,which by that time was mostly unconscious.How about wondering

WHY I was such a nervous wreck,instead of criticizing me for something I didn't

even realize I was doing at that point?

There have been other threads here about nadas " weaponizing " the car.My nada

did that,too,either by threatening to get into same and crash it when she was

" upset " to driving with me and my brother in the car while she was sobbing so

hard she was weaving into the other lane or had to break suddenly at a

light,jerking me forward.She never wore a selt belt.Neither did fada.I always

did,strapping myself in by myself.I was ridiculed for this,like it was neurotic

to use a seat belt.

Anyway,when I was younger and I was in the car with nada I'd hold on to

the handle that was attached to the glove compartment on the passenger seat side

in front like it was a steering wheel and push my feet on the floor to brake and

drive.The entire drive,concentrating on driving safely so we'd arrive at our

destination in one piece.I thought that if I didn't do this and didn't

completely concentrate on safely driving at all moments of our trip that we'd

have an accident.

Of course nada noticed and instead of reassuring me that I could sit back

and relax,she was handling it,she mocked me: " Do you really think you're driving

the car from over there?... Hey,,did you remember to hit the brake,ha

ha ha...,watch out,you're speeding ha ha ha oh here come the

cops...what if we hit someone,would it be your fault or mine oh ha ha ha.... "

This is the woman who had told me one morning when I was eight that she

was going to kill me and when I sputtered, " But you couldn't,how could you do

that- "

She had cut me off with: " Yes,I can.I can put us both in the car and

crash it into something going fast. "

For a year after that I refused to get in to the car alone with her

unless my brother was with us,because I knew she'd never kill HIM.

Just " driving " didn't seem like enough so I'd also read the license

plates of passing cars and when I was younger I'd quickly match up the numbers

and letters from smaller to larger,first to last.Like: 86B 2GZ had to go 268BGZ

and I had to do that as the car passed us or something awful would happen.If the

car was going too fast and I couldn't do it before the car got too far out of

sight to read the license plate,I'd panic until another car passed and I'd

successfully " re-read " the license plate.Then I had to make up for missing one

by getting every one right for the rest of the way.

This progressed into matching up the letters from first to last and

then not only matching the numbers but adding them all together and then putting

them in order with the letters.So,86B 2GZ became 16 BGZ.Again,I had to add the

numbers as the car passed or something awful would happen.

By the time I was ten I was making equations out of the letters and the

numbers.At first all I had to do was make up some plausible equation from the

numbers and letters as the car passed and to solve it before the next car

passed.Then it was I had to make up an equation and solve it as the car actually

passed and if I didn't solve it as the car passed I had to make up for it by

doing it quickly and correctly for all the next cars.

8+6=B...G=2...Z= -2...B=14...B times G= 28/BG=28...Z minus BG= -14...

I drove myself to distraction trying to get it all " solved " before the

car got past us.When I was almost twelve I had to force myself to stop it and it

was very hard.By that time I felt like if I stopped,we'd have an accident.

I remember coming up with " redoing " the license plates as a way to

ignore nada's mocking of me for " driving " the car.

Magical thinking and OCD...Interesting that numbers don't even really

exist; they are an immaterial quantification of the material.

And what was " material " to driving in the car with nada was that she

was at times out of control in some kind of hysterics and that she had

threatened to kill me with the car--no surprise why I'd make myself crazy trying

to render that " immaterial " ...