Re: Just had a break-through memory

[Guest guest]

It's a form of OCD, I believe. I blinked my eyes and counted it. I was

obsessive about it. I would only count to certain numbers in a certain order.

Very similar.

In a message dated 10/21/2009 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mozzarella27@... writes:

I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I

feel like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for

the whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them

because I felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW

that was not possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort

of like a superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything

like that since and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am

some kind of crazy person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that

something as benign as a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a

whole year? Bizarre.

[Guest guest]

I think this one is fairly uncomplicated. You had an invasive nada, I'm

guessing, who wouldn't allow you even the most basic level of privacy, and you

were trying to protect yourself. On one hand, I feel sad for that little girl,

who was not allowed the emotional space she needed to be healthy. On the other

hand, I went through the same thing, so it makes me giggle a little...maybe I

should try it now! Seriously, I think it's pretty normal, considering the

abnormal experiences you must have had. Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

-Deanna

>

> I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I feel

like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the

whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I

felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW that was not

possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort of like a

superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything like that since

and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy

person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as benign as

a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a whole year? Bizarre.

>

[Guest guest]

Also, I've been worrying lately that when my nada dies, she will spy on me for

the rest of my life. Bleh!

-Deanna

>

> I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I feel

like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the

whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I

felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW that was not

possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort of like a

superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything like that since

and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy

person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as benign as

a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a whole year? Bizarre.

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna, this one bothers me too. Especially when there are books out there like

" We Are Their Heaven " which claims the dead never leave us. That's a nice

sentiment if someone you had a positive relationship passes on, incredibly

alarming if one's got a nada.

Are there any KO's on the board who have had nadas or fadas who have died? How

did you feel afterward - was there any odd occurrence or did you feel like they

were truly " gone " ?

Mozz - much sympathies from me too for 3rd grade you...absolutely a sign you

were suffocated by the relationship.

> >

> > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I feel

like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the

whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I

felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW that was not

possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort of like a

superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything like that since

and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy

person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as benign as

a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a whole year? Bizarre.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What I make of it is that you were just a little girl trying to protect herself

from her intrusive nada in the best way a little girl can think up. Nothing

weird or crazy about it at all. Nadas DO have a way of making you think they

can read your mind - so it's kinda scary - and would be terrifying to a kid.

Suzy

>

> I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I feel

like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the

whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I

felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW that was not

possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort of like a

superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything like that since

and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy

person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as benign as

a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a whole year? Bizarre.

>

[Guest guest]

Geez, Louise. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's had this thought, too! Nada

used to say she'd come back and haunt us from the grave - and the hairs would

totally stand up on my neck. Its what I call her Voo Doo FOG.

If the doubts try to creep back in, I remind myself that I've got some good

angels looking out for me - and I'm not 'specting nada to end up among the

angels anyway.

Suzy

[Guest guest]

I try to believe that nadas and fadas are hopefully " healed " and at peace after

they die so they won't want to haunt us. I hope I am right...

> >

> > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I feel

like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the

whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I

felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW that was not

possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort of like a

superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything like that since

and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy

person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as benign as

a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a whole year? Bizarre.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Suzy that makes me feel better. This memory just came out of nowhere and

it unsettled me a little, but it makes more sense now. It's crazy how people's

brains find ways to cope.

> >

> > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I feel

like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the

whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I

felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW that was not

possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort of like a

superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything like that since

and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy

person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as benign as

a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a whole year? Bizarre.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

sounds like a child's desperate attempt to do ANYTHING to help stop the

abuse in her life

Jackie

I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I

feel like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for

the whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them

because I felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW

that was not possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort

of like a superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything

like that since and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am

some kind of crazy person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that

something as benign as a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a

whole year? Bizarre.

[Guest guest]

I used to think that too...but decided my deceased brother ( who was well

aware that nada was not normal) and other family members would prevent her

from torturing the rest of us !

Jackie

Also, I've been worrying lately that when my nada dies, she will spy on me

for the rest of my life. Bleh!

-Deanna

[Guest guest]

In folktales and folklore there are lots of descriptions of people making

" signs " with their hands to ward off the evil eye, or when an " evil person "

passes by, or a black cat, or some other scary person or animal/thing is near.

Maybe you were just reverting to a mythic past - if something scares us, and we

can't control it or make it go away, we humans use " magic behavior " to protect

ourselves. -

>

> sounds like a child's desperate attempt to do ANYTHING to help stop the

> abuse in her life

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

> remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I

> feel like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for

> the whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them

> because I felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW

> that was not possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort

> of like a superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything

> like that since and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am

> some kind of crazy person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that

> something as benign as a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a

> whole year? Bizarre.

>

[Guest guest]

Being convinced that crossing your fingers would protect you

from something sounds like typical kid stuff to me. Kids get

ideas like that and hold on to them for varying amounts of time.

I don't think there's anything particularly unusual about you

doing it for a year. What's unusual is that you felt you had to

protect yourself from your own mother and that part of it

certainly wasn't your fault. I don't think it is an indication

that anything was wrong with you. What was wrong was that you

felt a need to protect yourself from someone who should have

loved and nurtured you.

At 05:56 PM 10/21/2009 mozzarella27 wrote:

>I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of

>a sudden I remembered something from my past and I can't

>believe how weird it is. I feel like a total freak! And I can't

>believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the whole year I always

>had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I felt

>like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW

>that was not possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it

>anyway, sort of like a superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I

>have not done anything like that since and totally forgot about

>it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy person. I

>really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as

>benign as a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a

>whole year? Bizarre.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

The thoughts of nada hanging around after death makes me feel queasy. People who

write books like this infuriate me, even though I know that they don't

understand our pain, it feels like another segment of society that won't even

acknowledge it.

Nada loves to talk about her dreams and visitations from dead relatives, as did

my grand-nada and great-grand-nada. I've heard that stuff since I was a little

girl. I've never analyzed why it felt so creepy, maybe it touches on that

feeling that there was nowhere anyone could go, that the Cluster Bs didn't have

access. I also think there's some narcissism there, believing that the

separation of death isn't applicable to them...DH jokes that nada thinks she has

super-powers...omniscience and so on.

I was worried about the dead-person-hanging-around-thing when my other

grandmother died. She had become very emotionally dependent on me; although I

loved her, her feelings for me were too intense and inappropriate; I felt like

she wanted me to be her mother. She idolized me; my name was one of the few

words she retained after a series of strokes. I had to put up strong boundaries

to avoid being sucked into her emotional neediness. That kind of adulation made

me extremely uncomfortable. Nada would have basked in it.

I was worried that after my grandmother died that she wouldn't want to let

go...but that wasn't my experience. She was gone. There was no residual soul tie

or anything like that. What a huge relief to have that sense of emotional

closure after a death.

I've always felt the burden of nada wanting something from me...even now with

LC...I can feel that vibe across the distance. Or maybe I've just internalized

it. I've done my best to cut off her access to my soul. I hope she knows that I

absolutely refuse to have anything to do with her after she's gone. That's it,

baby...game over. The ns used to call death the Blessed

Release....probably often just as much of a release for those still living....

I know that no one here will judge me when I say that I'm anticipating my

primary emotional reaction to nada's eventual death will be one of relief.

Kate

>

> Deanna, this one bothers me too. Especially when there are books out there

like " We Are Their Heaven " which claims the dead never leave us. That's a nice

sentiment if someone you had a positive relationship passes on, incredibly

alarming if one's got a nada.

>

> Are there any KO's on the board who have had nadas or fadas who have died?

How did you feel afterward - was there any odd occurrence or did you feel like

they were truly " gone " ?

>

> Mozz - much sympathies from me too for 3rd grade you...absolutely a sign you

were suffocated by the relationship.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I feel

like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the

whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I

felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW that was not

possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort of like a

superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything like that since

and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy

person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as benign as

a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a whole year? Bizarre.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Very interesting topics coming up in the digest today...

I also did different ritualistic things to try to have a sense of control over

nada's behavior. Throughout childhood I was always conscious of the cracks in

the sidewalk, and if I ever stepped on one, had the fear that something bad

would happen. What's the rhyme that goes with that? " Step on a crack, break your

mother's back. " Still puzzing that one out....was it about me protecting her

from what I thought my anger could do? I also had a compulsion that if I didn't

say goodbye to fada before he went to work, that he would die.

I also used to kick a small rock while I was walking home from school each day.

If I could keep the rock on the sidewalk, and make it all the way home(while

also not stepping on any cracks)...it was a sign that all would be well. On a

good day, nada had cooked dinner..maybe gone shopping, or done some gardening,

and she would be up and dressed with the blinds open. A bad day...blinds down,

nada laying cross ways on the bed in her nightgown...or tearing around the house

in a blind rage over something she had been stewing about all day while I was in

school. I still have a tendency towards feeling anxiety around 3:30/4 PM...have

worked long and hard to overcome that.

As a child, I also persistently searched for, and saved, four leaf clovers,

checked the locks over and over at night before falling asleep, and had quite a

few other OCD-like behaviors..(the night time ones related to being molested by

fada, I'm sure..)

It wasn't about OCD though, as I don't struggle with any of that as an adult,

except for a return of some of the compulsion on occasions that I visited and

stayed with my parents. I think it was a child's magical thinking and attempt to

have some control in a world that felt like there was no logical way to figure

out what the abusive grown ups were going to do next.

I used to feel embarrassed about doing all that stuff, but now I have compassion

for that poor little kid who lived with constant stress and abuse and had no

tools to manage it, other than the primitive ones she figured out on her own.

Kate (who has DDNOS and complex PTSD also)

>

> What I make of it is that you were just a little girl trying to protect

herself from her intrusive nada in the best way a little girl can think up.

Nothing weird or crazy about it at all. Nadas DO have a way of making you think

they can read your mind - so it's kinda scary - and would be terrifying to a

kid.

>

> Suzy

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a sudden I

remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is. I feel

like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade for the

whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them because I

felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I KNEW that was not

possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway, sort of like a

superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done anything like that since

and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like I am some kind of crazy

person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was that something as benign as

a silly kids game? If so why would I do that for a whole year? Bizarre.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

oh, I used to jump ON the cracks...it didn't work ( step on a crack, break

your mothers back) LOL. I too had OCD in an attempt to have some control

in my life..and to relive stress...but they disappeared on their own as I

got older

Jackie

Very interesting topics coming up in the digest today...

I also did different ritualistic things to try to have a sense of control

over nada's behavior. Throughout childhood I was always conscious of the

cracks in the sidewalk, and if I ever stepped on one, had the fear that

something bad would happen. What's the rhyme that goes with that? " Step on a

crack, break your mother's back. " Still puzzing that one out....was it about

me protecting her from what I thought my anger could do? I also had a

compulsion that if I didn't say goodbye to fada before he went to work, that

he would die.

I also used to kick a small rock while I was walking home from school each

day. If I could keep the rock on the sidewalk, and make it all the way

home(while also not stepping on any cracks)...it was a sign that all would

be well. On a good day, nada had cooked dinner..maybe gone shopping, or done

some gardening, and she would be up and dressed with the blinds open. A bad

day...blinds down, nada laying cross ways on the bed in her nightgown...or

tearing around the house in a blind rage over something she had been stewing

about all day while I was in school. I still have a tendency towards feeling

anxiety around 3:30/4 PM...have worked long and hard to overcome that.

As a child, I also persistently searched for, and saved, four leaf clovers,

checked the locks over and over at night before falling asleep, and had

quite a few other OCD-like behaviors..(the night time ones related to being

molested by fada, I'm sure..)

It wasn't about OCD though, as I don't struggle with any of that as an

adult, except for a return of some of the compulsion on occasions that I

visited and stayed with my parents. I think it was a child's magical

thinking and attempt to have some control in a world that felt like there

was no logical way to figure out what the abusive grown ups were going to do

next.

I used to feel embarrassed about doing all that stuff, but now I have

compassion for that poor little kid who lived with constant stress and abuse

and had no tools to manage it, other than the primitive ones she figured out

on her own.

Kate (who has DDNOS and complex PTSD also)

[Guest guest]

OMG! I remember thinking, 'Ok, so if I stepped on a crack and it WAS true...

whould that be such a bad thing?'

Then came the guilts.

Lynnette

>

> oh, I used to jump ON the cracks...it didn't work ( step on a crack, break

> your mothers back) LOL. I too had OCD in an attempt to have some control

> in my life..and to relive stress...but they disappeared on their own as I

> got older

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Very interesting topics coming up in the digest today...

>

> I also did different ritualistic things to try to have a sense of control

> over nada's behavior. Throughout childhood I was always conscious of the

> cracks in the sidewalk, and if I ever stepped on one, had the fear that

> something bad would happen. What's the rhyme that goes with that? " Step on a

> crack, break your mother's back. " Still puzzing that one out....was it about

> me protecting her from what I thought my anger could do? I also had a

> compulsion that if I didn't say goodbye to fada before he went to work, that

> he would die.

>

> I also used to kick a small rock while I was walking home from school each

> day. If I could keep the rock on the sidewalk, and make it all the way

> home(while also not stepping on any cracks)...it was a sign that all would

> be well. On a good day, nada had cooked dinner..maybe gone shopping, or done

> some gardening, and she would be up and dressed with the blinds open. A bad

> day...blinds down, nada laying cross ways on the bed in her nightgown...or

> tearing around the house in a blind rage over something she had been stewing

> about all day while I was in school. I still have a tendency towards feeling

> anxiety around 3:30/4 PM...have worked long and hard to overcome that.

>

> As a child, I also persistently searched for, and saved, four leaf clovers,

> checked the locks over and over at night before falling asleep, and had

> quite a few other OCD-like behaviors..(the night time ones related to being

> molested by fada, I'm sure..)

>

> It wasn't about OCD though, as I don't struggle with any of that as an

> adult, except for a return of some of the compulsion on occasions that I

> visited and stayed with my parents. I think it was a child's magical

> thinking and attempt to have some control in a world that felt like there

> was no logical way to figure out what the abusive grown ups were going to do

> next.

>

> I used to feel embarrassed about doing all that stuff, but now I have

> compassion for that poor little kid who lived with constant stress and abuse

> and had no tools to manage it, other than the primitive ones she figured out

> on her own.

>

> Kate (who has DDNOS and complex PTSD also)

>

[Guest guest]

after I saw it wasn't going to work, I didn't have any guilt..and would step

on every crack, just in case it took a while to work LOL

Jackie ( yeah,I was a bit ornery)

OMG! I remember thinking, 'Ok, so if I stepped on a crack and it WAS true...

whould that be such a bad thing?'

Then came the guilts.

Lynnette

[Guest guest]

I remember feeling compelled to step on every crack.

>

> oh, I used to jump ON the cracks...it didn't work ( step on a crack, break

> your mothers back) LOL. I too had OCD in an attempt to have some control

> in my life..and to relive stress...but they disappeared on their own as I

> got older

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Very interesting topics coming up in the digest today...

>

> I also did different ritualistic things to try to have a sense of control

> over nada's behavior. Throughout childhood I was always conscious of the

> cracks in the sidewalk, and if I ever stepped on one, had the fear that

> something bad would happen. What's the rhyme that goes with that? " Step on a

> crack, break your mother's back. " Still puzzing that one out....was it about

> me protecting her from what I thought my anger could do? I also had a

> compulsion that if I didn't say goodbye to fada before he went to work, that

> he would die.

>

> I also used to kick a small rock while I was walking home from school each

> day. If I could keep the rock on the sidewalk, and make it all the way

> home(while also not stepping on any cracks)...it was a sign that all would

> be well. On a good day, nada had cooked dinner..maybe gone shopping, or done

> some gardening, and she would be up and dressed with the blinds open. A bad

> day...blinds down, nada laying cross ways on the bed in her nightgown...or

> tearing around the house in a blind rage over something she had been stewing

> about all day while I was in school. I still have a tendency towards feeling

> anxiety around 3:30/4 PM...have worked long and hard to overcome that.

>

> As a child, I also persistently searched for, and saved, four leaf clovers,

> checked the locks over and over at night before falling asleep, and had

> quite a few other OCD-like behaviors..(the night time ones related to being

> molested by fada, I'm sure..)

>

> It wasn't about OCD though, as I don't struggle with any of that as an

> adult, except for a return of some of the compulsion on occasions that I

> visited and stayed with my parents. I think it was a child's magical

> thinking and attempt to have some control in a world that felt like there

> was no logical way to figure out what the abusive grown ups were going to do

> next.

>

> I used to feel embarrassed about doing all that stuff, but now I have

> compassion for that poor little kid who lived with constant stress and abuse

> and had no tools to manage it, other than the primitive ones she figured out

> on her own.

>

> Kate (who has DDNOS and complex PTSD also)

>

[Guest guest]

Kate,

My mother has been dead for 2 years. I have gone through the whole array of

feelings from numbness to sadness to regret that I just never had an

emotionally healthy mother. The hardest thing for me to overcome has been

releasing the hope that I'll ever have a healthy mother. Once she died, that

hope

died too. Even though I told myself when she was alive that she would

never change, I guess it's human nature to have some small tinge of hope left.

About 8 weeks after she died, my therapist sent me to a trauma clinic in

Washington DC because I was not doing well. It was the second time I had been

there...My mother died in May. I had gone in April, right before she died

and then in July. When the therapist at the trauma clinic asked me if

anything had changed between April and July, I said no. Completely forgot my

mother had died in between that time. Later in the day I said, " Oh, yeah, my

mother died in May. " She looked at me kind of wide-eyed like she couldn't

believe I had forgotten that and asked me to write down some thoughts on why

I thought I had " forgotten " my mother died. I never did it. I couldn't...I

don't even think I could today. We were LC before she died and her last

words to me were " stop stressing me " when I told her she needed to heed the

doctor's advice and take her breathing medication. She was dying then, but

I was 280 miles away. I went to the funeral and left my kids at home --

many reasons, but that stemmed from fearing an uncle who had molested me

would show up and I didn't want him around my kids. So. I guess I am

rambling, but if you're like me, you'll go through a lot of emotions and with

that

relief will be some guilt. I feel guilty for feeling relieved...like God

is going to punish me when I die because I am not loyal to her anymore. I

feel guilty because if I had died first, my mother would have been the waif

traumatized victim from hell for anyone living around her and I am moving

on with my life without her dictating it. When my mother's mother died, she

ran around the house wringing her hands and crying, " i'm next, i'm next. "

I feel relieved and yet sad. I just miss what I never had.

In a message dated 10/22/2009 2:40:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

darrowby385@... writes:

The thoughts of nada hanging around after death makes me feel queasy.

People who write books like this infuriate me, even though I know that they

don't understand our pain, it feels like another segment of society that won't

even acknowledge it.

Nada loves to talk about her dreams and visitations from dead relatives,

as did my grand-nada and great-grand-Nada loves to talk about her dreams and

visitations from dead relatives, as did my grand-nada and

great-grand-<WBR>nada. I've heard that stuff since I was a little girl. I've

never

analyzed why it felt so creepy, maybe it touches on that feeling that there was

nowhere anyone could go, that the Cluster Bs didn't have access. I also think

there's some narcissism thereNada loves to talk about

I was worried about the dead-person-I was worried aI was worried about the

dead-person-<WBR>hanging-around-<WBR>thing when my other grandmother died.

She had become very emotionally dependent on me; although I loved her, her

feelings for me were too intense and inappropriate; I felt like she wanted

me to be her mother. She idolized me; my name was one of the few words she

retained after a series of strokes. I had to put up strong boundaries to

avoid being sucked into her emotional neediness. That kind of adulation m

I was worried that after my grandmother died that she wouldn't want to let

go...but that wasn't my experience. She was gone. There was no residual

soul tie or anything like that. What a huge relief to have that sense of

emotional closure after a death.

I've always felt the burden of nada wanting something from me...even now

with LC...I can feel that vibe across the distance. Or maybe I've just

internalized it. I've done my best to cut off her access to my soul. I hope she

knows that I absolutely refuse to have anything to do with her after she's

gone. That's it, baby...game over. The ns used to call death the

Blessed Release....probably often just as much of a release for those still

living....

I know that no one here will judge me when I say that I'm anticipating my

primary emotional reaction to nada's eventual death will be one of relief.

Kate

>

> Deanna, this one bothers me too. Especially when there are books out

there like " We Are Their Heaven " which claims the dead never leave us. That's

a nice sentiment if someone you had a positive relationship passes on,

incredibly alarming if one's got a nada.

>

> Are there any KO's on the board who have had nadas or fadas who have

died? How did you feel afterward - was there any odd occurrence or did you

feel like they were truly " gone " ?

>

> Mozz - much sympathies from me too for 3rd grade you...absolutely a sign

you were suffocated by the relationship.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a

sudden I remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it

is. I feel like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd

grade for the whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed

them because I felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I

KNEW that was not possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it

anyway, sort of like a superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done

anything like that since and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like

I am some kind of crazy person. I really don't know what to make of it.

Was that something as benign as a silly kids game? If so why would I do that

for a whole year? Bizarre.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. I am so interested in hearing all of these stories because I did

things like this ALLLLLL the time. Like when I unloaded the dishwasher, I had to

line the glasses up in the cabinet a certain way, facing a certain way,

perfectly and if I didn't, something bad would happen. There are way too many

weird things I did from eye blinking/counting to lining things up and I

can't name them all, but I wonder if this is a common thing from kids of

BPD's.

In a message dated 10/22/2009 2:57:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

darrowby385@... writes:

Very interesting topics coming up in the digest today...

I also did different ritualistic things to try to have a sense of control

over nada's behavior. Throughout childhood I was always conscious of the

cracks in the sidewalk, and if I ever stepped on one, had the fear that

something bad would happen. What's the rhyme that goes with that? " Step on a

crack, break your mother's back. " Still puzzing that one out....was it about

me protecting her from what I thought my anger could do? I also had a

compulsion that if I didn't say goodbye to fada before he went to work, that he

would die.

I also used to kick a small rock while I was walking home from school each

day. If I could keep the rock on the sidewalk, and make it all the way

home(while also not stepping on any cracks)...it was a sign that all would be

well. On a good day, nada had cooked dinner..maybe gone shopping, or done

some gardening, and she would be up and dressed with the blinds open. A bad

day...blinds down, nada laying cross ways on the bed in her nightgown...I

also used to kick a small rock while I was walking home from school each

day. If I could keep the rock on the sidewalk, and make it all the way

home(while also not stepping on any cracks)...it was a sign that all would be

wel

As a child, I also persistently searched for, and saved, four leaf

clovers, checked the locks over and over at night before falling asleep, and

had

quite a few other OCD-like behaviors..(As a child, I also persistently

searched for, and saved, four leaf

It wasn't about OCD though, as I don't struggle with any of that as an

adult, except for a return of some of the compulsion on occasions that I

visited and stayed with my parents. I think it was a child's magical thinking

and attempt to have some control in a world that felt like there was no

logical way to figure out what the abusive grown ups were going to do next.

I used to feel embarrassed about doing all that stuff, but now I have

compassion for that poor little kid who lived with constant stress and abuse

and had no tools to manage it, other than the primitive ones she figured out

on her own.

Kate (who has DDNOS and complex PTSD also)

>

> What I make of it is that you were just a little girl trying to protect

herself from her intrusive nada in the best way a little girl can think up.

Nothing weird or crazy about it at all. Nadas DO have a way of making you

think they can read your mind - so it's kinda scary - and would be

terrifying to a kid.

>

> Suzy

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a

sudden I remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird it is.

I feel like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd grade

for the whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed them

because I felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I

KNEW that was not possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it anyway,

sort of like a superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done

anything like that since and totally forgot about it, but it makes me feel like

I

am some kind of crazy person. I really don't know what to make of it. Was

that something as benign as a silly kids game? If so why would I do that

for a whole year? Bizarre.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Man Annie, you have such a way with words and I could have written that

post myself! My mother made me terrified to do anything against her wishes or

will and I'm not even sure how she did it because she didn't beat me....it

was all completely emotional. She " demanded " respect and would go into

raging fits if I did anything to defy her. Occasionally she would grab me by

the arms and shake me and scream at me to stop and threaten to " spank " me,

but it was mostly all mental abuse and when I did react I was to " wipe that

look off my face RIGHT NOW and stop acting ridiculous. " According to her I

was a selfish brat, a manipulator, a liar, and never appreciative of

anything she did for me. I swear, she could make my heart race well after I

married and had children. Up until she got too sick and out of breath to argue

with me and it wasn't until then that I confronted her, went LC and

basically told her SHE was the reason I was in therapy and needing help. It was

too

late. She was dying and I couldn't change a thing.

In a message dated 10/23/2009 12:37:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

anuria-67854@... writes:

I think different people cope with stress and anxiety in different ways,

and having a scary, unpredictable, angry, perfectionistic, critical, violent,

abusive parent is a really good way to stress the hell out of a child and

make him or her terribly anxious.

Obsessive-compulsivObsessive-compulsiv<WBR>e behaviors are one way of

distracting oneself from anxious thought

I became a nervous, jittery wreck; I'd bite my nails until they'd bleed,

would startle easily, and suffered from horrible nightmares. I pulled at one

earlobe until it became noticeably longer than the other. Sister twisted

her hair around her fingers compulsively, even pulled it out sometimes, and

sucked her thumb up until about age 9 or so. We were both rather like

little robots; we never got in trouble at school or called attention to

ourselves if we could help it. We played quietly, stayed neat, and spent as

much

time outside (away from nada) as we could; we were too terrified to do

anything really overtly bad or rebellious. And we would be humiliated by nada

for

having these nervous habits, for being shy and withdrawn; we were made to

feel ashamed for unconsciously expressing the anxiety that she gave us in

the first place.

Talk about mental torture!

Thanks, nada.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I can't believe this- I was reading some other posts and all of a

> sudden I remembered something from my past and I can't believe how weird

it is.

> I feel like a total freak! And I can't believe I forgot this. In 3rd

grade

> for the whole year I always had my fingers crossed- ALWAYS. I crossed

them

> because I felt like if I didn't my mom might be able to read my mind. I

> KNEW that was not possible and that I was being stupid, but I did it

anyway,

> sort of like a superstitious habit. WHAT THE HELL??? I have not done

> anything like that since and totally forgot about it, but it makes me

feel like I

> am some kind of crazy person. I really don't know what to make of it.

Was

> that something as benign as a silly kids game? If so why would I do that

> for a whole year? Bizarre.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

[Guest guest]

Yep...I was constantly told I was ridiculous. I once wrapped a hair around

my finger in the car. I was a really nervous child anyway but I couldn't

get it off and my finger started turning blue (I actually smile when I write

that now, but at the time it wasn't funny at all). My dad blurts out, " Oh,

great, your finger is going to fall off. " That's all it took to bring me

to hysterical tears and both he and my mother started laughing at me,

telling me to stop crying and that I was being ridiculous.

And it's like anything with BPD...this moment in and of itself was not some

life altering event that made me have PTSD and DID and everything in

between and to have low self esteem and caused me to second guess my every

move...it was ALL of these things combined that created the reactions and

responses I had.

In a message dated 10/23/2009 1:27:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddog@... writes:

OMG, my sister bit her nails until they bled, and I twirled my hair around

my finger, sometimes pulling it out too !! my sister also picks at her

scabs... my nada would tell people about our habits ( my oldest brother,

the

golden child still blinks very fast...almost trance like, he never " out

grew " his OCD, but then, he never " left " nada either, like the rest of us

did) and then laugh at how idiotic we were to do such stupid things to

ourselves...

Jackie

I became a nervous, jittery wreck; I'd bite my nails until they'd bleed,

would startle easily, and suffered from horrible nightmares. I pulled at

one

earlobe until it became noticeably longer than the other. Sister twisted

her

hair around her fingers compulsively, even pulled it out sometimes, and

sucked her thumb up until about age 9 or so. We were both rather like

little

robots; we never got in trouble at school or called attention to ourselves

if we could help it. We played quietly, stayed neat, and spent as much

time

outside (away from nada) as we could; we were too terrified to do anything

really overtly bad or rebellious. And we would be humiliated by nada for

having these nervous habits, for being shy and withdrawn; we were made to

feel ashamed for unconsciously expressing the anxiety that she gave us in

the first place.

Talk about mental torture!

Thanks, nada.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

You know, I think this is why I have such an issue now with feeling laughed

at. I will walk in a room and feel talked about at church or I'll think

someone is going to laugh at me or be mad at me all the time. I drive my

therapist crazy with the " you're not mad at me, are you? " question. LOL She

reassures me that nothing I could ever do will make her " mad " at me, but I

cannot seem to shake that awfull feeling.

Anytime I think about my childhood, I remember being laughed at -- and not

laughed with like when my 7 year old is acting goofy and wants us all to

laugh at how funny he is...like made fun of, laughed at. I had a slight

medical disability, so I was already self conscious.

You're right, it is a miracle we didn't do something drastic to remove

ourselves from it all.

In a message dated 10/23/2009 1:54:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

anuria-67854@... writes:

God, that is so cruel to laugh at a child who is genuinely frightened.

So cruel and sadistic.

Yes, its the *pervasive environment* of daily emotional stress that does

the worst damage. As children we swam in anxiety and fear and *despair* the

way a fish swims in water; it was our reality and our

" normal. " Its truly a miracle that we didn't commit suicide as kids or

teens; we must have cores of steel to have survived all that.

-Annie

--- In _WTOAdultChildren1@WTOAdultChilWTO_

(mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ) , Hummingbird1298@, Humm

>

> Yep...I was constantly told I was ridiculous. I once wrapped a hair

around

> my finger in the car. I was a really nervous child anyway but I couldn't

> get it off and my finger started turning blue (I actually smile when I

write

> that now, but at the time it wasn't funny at all). My dad blurts out,

" Oh,

> great, your finger is going to fall off. " That's all it took to bring me

> to hysterical tears and both he and my mother started laughing at me,

> telling me to stop crying and that I was being ridiculous.

>

> And it's like anything with BPD...this moment in and of itself was not

some

> life altering event that made me have PTSD and DID and everything in

> between and to have low self esteem and caused me to second guess my

every

> move...it was ALL of these things combined that created the reactions

and

> responses I had.

>

>

> In a message dated 10/23/2009 1:27:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> sleddog@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> OMG, my sister bit her nails until they bled, and I twirled my hair

around

> my finger, sometimes pulling it out too !! my sister also picks at her

> scabs... my nada would tell people about our habits ( my oldest brother,

> the

> golden child still blinks very fast...almost trance like, he never " out

> grew " his OCD, but then, he never " left " nada either, like the rest of

us

> did) and then laugh at how idiotic we were to do such stupid things to

> ourselves...

>

> Jackie

>

> I became a nervous, jittery wreck; I'd bite my nails until they'd bleed,

> would startle easily, and suffered from horrible nightmares. I pulled at

> one

> earlobe until it became noticeably longer than the other. Sister twisted

> her

> hair around her fingers compulsively, even pulled it out sometimes, and

> sucked her thumb up until about age 9 or so. We were both rather like

> little

> robots; we never got in trouble at school or called attention to

ourselves

> if we could help it. We played quietly, stayed neat, and spent as much

> time

> outside (away from nada) as we could; we were too terrified to do

anything

> really overtly bad or rebellious. And we would be humiliated by nada for

> having these nervous habits, for being shy and withdrawn; we were made

to

> feel ashamed for unconsciously expressing the anxiety that she gave us

in

> the first place.

>

> Talk about mental torture!

>

> Thanks, nada.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

[Guest guest]

I think it is...a kids way of trying to relieve stress and appease the BPD

parent...

Jackie

Wow. I am so interested in hearing all of these stories because I did

things like this ALLLLLL the time. Like when I unloaded the dishwasher, I

had to

line the glasses up in the cabinet a certain way, facing a certain way,

perfectly and if I didn't, something bad would happen. There are way too

many

weird things I did from eye blinking/counting to lining things up and I

can't name them all, but I wonder if this is a common thing from kids of

BPD's.

[Guest guest]

I know. Really amazing we all survived.

In a message dated 10/23/2009 2:01:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddog@... writes:

exactly !! and this was going on since you were born !!

Jackie

Yep...I was constantly told I was ridiculous. I once wrapped a hair around

my finger in the car. I was a really nervous child anyway but I couldn't

get it off and my finger started turning blue (I actually smile when I

write

that now, but at the time it wasn't funny at all). My dad blurts out, " Oh,

great, your finger is going to fall off. " That's all it took to bring me

to hysterical tears and both he and my mother started laughing at me,

telling me to stop crying and that I was being ridiculous.

And it's like anything with BPD...this moment in and of itself was not some

life altering event that made me have PTSD and DID and everything in

between and to have low self esteem and caused me to second guess my every

move...it was ALL of these things combined that created the reactions and

responses I had.