Re: NADA'S CAN'T HELP THIS

[Guest guest]

I respectfully disagree.

Nadas may not be able to control their wild emotions, but they CAN control their

actions. Just like with PMS. With PMS, you are driving a car and the person in

front of you keeps jamming the breaks, going 20 miles under the speed limit.

You WANT to ram into them because they are pissing you off in typical PMS

fashion, but you DON'T. Because you KNOW right from wrong and you KNOW your

emotions aren't in check.

I think anyone who says " aww, the BPD can't help it " is an enabler to them.

Plain and simple.

Nada COULD control her emotional and physical beatings of me, she just chose not

to. Nada enjoys seeing people in pain and does everything she can to hurt them,

especially children.

It may be harder for nadas to control their behavior than a normal person, but

that in no way means that we should stand by and take the beatings and excuse

the discicable behavior. Ever.

For me, NC is the absolute best thing. Trying not to " react " when she comes and

physically beats me in front of my child will NEVER be the right way to handle

it for me. I am teaching my kids not to give the time of day to ANYONE who

hurts them and setting the right example for my kids. To tell them " aw honey,

grandma loves you but likes to say mean things and do mean things to you and it

is okay because she just can't help it " would truly be a crime.

I will let HER go. I have, actually.

>

> I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so they

reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to live with

or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with PMS can help

erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal with, it does

explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it personally or let

it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT GO. It doesn't do us

any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

oh, but BOTH CAN control it...they can control when and to whom they blow up

at !! Don't buy into the to " poor person with BPD, it's a mental illness

and they have no control " they have plenty of control !! I have seen my

nada ready to blow, daggers coming out of her eyes, smoke out of her ears,

but she held it until we got to the car because we were in the grocery store

( or where ever) and she would not rage in public !! I do agree we

shouldn't take it personally ( although thats hard not to, especially when

it's directed at me and not any one else)

Jackie

I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so

they reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to

live with or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with

PMS can help erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal

with, it does explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it

personally or let it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT

GO. It doesn't do us any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I

hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with you, realmom.

Sorry, RomanticLibra, but your therapist gave you odd, inaccurate advice in my

opinion.

Personality disordered people can control their actions and behaviors. Like

realmom wrote, its true that bpds and other Cluster B pds have difficulty

regulating their *feelings*/emotions, but the fact is that *bpds can control

their behaviors when they choose to.*

My nada is a high-functioning " walking Cluster B " , and wants to appear perfect

in public. She was/is able to hold in her anger and frustration at other people

until she was alone with us in the car or at home, and behind the safety of

closed doors she would unleash her terrifying and abusive, red-faced,

spittle-flying rage at us kids, and at dad.

My nada felt safe attacking her kids and her husband because she believed we

" had to " love her and would not leave her no matter what she did to us.

If your friend unleashes her rage at you, I'm willing to bet its because

(a) she feels safe doing so; she thinks you won't attack her back, leave her, or

expose her or ( she is a low-functioning bpd who allows herself to act out in

public, has a hard time holding down a job, gets into trouble with the law, etc.

Even low-functioning bpds are held legally responsible for their actions and

behaviors; according to the law they understand the difference between right and

wrong and they're not psychotic, so they are held accountable.

Only those suffering from psychotic disorders like schizophrenia (having

delusions, hallucinations, incoherence, catatonia, etc. ) are considered

" legally insane. "

And your therapist's views regarding pms excusing a woman's personal

responsibility for her own nasty behavior is about 50 years out of date, in my

opinion! I'd be interested to know your therapist's credentials; I find it

hard to believe that he or she is a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist,

myself.

-Annie

> >

> > I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so they

reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to live with

or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with PMS can help

erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal with, it does

explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it personally or let

it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT GO. It doesn't do us

any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I hope this helps.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You bring up another great point, Jackie.

They know how to " hold it " in front of people they want to pretend they are

normal to. That is another clear indicator that they *can* control how they

behave. Some people in my family have never seen the sadistic side of nada,

because I was always her chosen target.

They decide who will be the players in their sick game. And they absolutely know

what they are doing.

>

> oh, but BOTH CAN control it...they can control when and to whom they blow up

> at !! Don't buy into the to " poor person with BPD, it's a mental illness

> and they have no control " they have plenty of control !! I have seen my

> nada ready to blow, daggers coming out of her eyes, smoke out of her ears,

> but she held it until we got to the car because we were in the grocery store

> ( or where ever) and she would not rage in public !! I do agree we

> shouldn't take it personally ( although thats hard not to, especially when

> it's directed at me and not any one else)

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

> that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so

> they reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to

> live with or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with

> PMS can help erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal

> with, it does explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it

> personally or let it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT

> GO. It doesn't do us any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I

> hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

Along this line of discussion - last Sunday's NY Times magazine has a feature

article on anxiety and brain research. Apparently there are real differences in

activity in the amygdala and in the frontal cortex, between people who become

very anxious and those who " roll with the punches. " Those of us who have

wondered all our lives why we get so upset while our siblings are much calmer

during Nada's tantrums - brain construction could have something to do with our

differing responses. And since the brain continues to grow, brain structure can

also change - so some of us who feel anxious learn to deal with it better (more

adaptively) than others who get overwhelmed.

So maybe like the people studied in the article, our Nada's are less able to

control the emotions they FEEL - but I agree with Jackie - the fact that they

target only people who are " safe " to attack, tells me they can control their

ACTIONS.

>

> oh, but BOTH CAN control it...they can control when and to whom they blow up

> at !! Don't buy into the to " poor person with BPD, it's a mental illness

> and they have no control " they have plenty of control !! I have seen my

> nada ready to blow, daggers coming out of her eyes, smoke out of her ears,

> but she held it until we got to the car because we were in the grocery store

> ( or where ever) and she would not rage in public !! I do agree we

> shouldn't take it personally ( although thats hard not to, especially when

> it's directed at me and not any one else)

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

> that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so

> they reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to

> live with or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with

> PMS can help erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal

> with, it does explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it

> personally or let it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT

> GO. It doesn't do us any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I

> hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

I'd like to read this study, it seems to corroborate earlier and current

research on " temperament " , the set of characteristic ways of responding to the

world that each person is born with, which is the core element of one's

personality.

There are 9 " dimensions " to temperament, and #9 is " sensitivity " or the amount

of stimulation required to get a response. Some people are born more sensitive

than others; for example, a baby may be more sensitive to loud noises so they

wake up easily and startle easily, so are more easily distressed. Other people

have a higher threshold of sensitivity, so more stimulation is required to get a

response from them. Brain studies are fascinating to me, thanks for the heads

up on the article, .

-Annie

> >

> > oh, but BOTH CAN control it...they can control when and to whom they blow up

> > at !! Don't buy into the to " poor person with BPD, it's a mental illness

> > and they have no control " they have plenty of control !! I have seen my

> > nada ready to blow, daggers coming out of her eyes, smoke out of her ears,

> > but she held it until we got to the car because we were in the grocery store

> > ( or where ever) and she would not rage in public !! I do agree we

> > shouldn't take it personally ( although thats hard not to, especially when

> > it's directed at me and not any one else)

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

> > that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so

> > they reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to

> > live with or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with

> > PMS can help erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal

> > with, it does explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it

> > personally or let it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT

> > GO. It doesn't do us any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I

> > hope this helps.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's my take on it, . BPs/NPs are overly sensitive and don't appear able

to regulate their emotions in response to perceived triggers, but they CAN

control how they act in response to them - or at least should be held

accountable for their actions. That makes all the difference. Hey, there's a

long list of can't-help-it types (2-yr. olds, hormone-raging teens, pms and

menop. women, hungry guys, anyone on a diet, etc.), but they are ALL responsible

for their actions.

I think there is some wisdom in the " let it go " thinking, though, but it depends

entirely on the sitation. If nada is in your face screaming, or beating the

crap out of you, or whatever, it's a little difficult to let it roll off,

especially when you're a little kid. Or when she's on a campaign to discredit

you (with family/friends, in workplace, e.g.), you can't just blow that off.

However, when nadas lets loose with the FOG horn, or crazy talk about " stuff " or

whatever, that's the kind of thing to just " let go. " It isn't worth taking the

bait or trying to change her thinking. That's just not gonna happen.

And, when and IF you reach a place that you can, it is healing to try to " let

go " of as much as you can that has caused you pain and anger in the past. That

doesn't mean forget, and it may or may not mean forgive, but it does mean to let

it not continue to " rent space in your head and heart, " so to speak. It's NOT

simple, it's NOT easy, but hopefully for most of us, it is doable. It's a part

of moving forward and finding some semblance of peace. And I think that's what

we're all striving for.

Best to all,

Suzy

[Guest guest]

I am not sure they CAN control it and i think this is what separates them

and makes them true BPDers. Their brains don't function normally. My

therapist says they function on 'old brain' emotions and 'flip their lids'

basically....

In a message dated 10/9/2009 9:21:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

realmom2two@... writes:

I respectfully disagree.

Nadas may not be able to control their wild emotions, but they CAN control

their actions. Just like with PMS. With PMS, you are driving a car and the

person in front of you keeps jamming the breaks, going 20 miles under the

speed limit. You WANT to ram into them because they are pissing you off in

typical PMS fashion, but you DON'T. Because you KNOW right from wrong and

you KNOW your emotions aren't in check.

I think anyone who says " aww, the BPD can't help it " is an enabler to

them. Plain and simple.

Nada COULD control her emotional and physical beatings of me, she just

chose not to. Nada enjoys seeing people in pain and does everything she can to

hurt them, especially children.

It may be harder for nadas to control their behavior than a normal person,

but that in no way means that we should stand by and take the beatings and

excuse the discicable behavior. Ever.

For me, NC is the absolute best thing. Trying not to " react " when she

comes and physically beats me in front of my child will NEVER be the right way

to handle it for me. I am teaching my kids not to give the time of day to

ANYONE who hurts them and setting the right example for my kids. To tell them

" aw honey, grandma loves you but likes to say mean things and do mean

things to you and it is okay because she just can't help it " would truly be a

crime.

I will let HER go. I have, actually.

>

> I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to

me that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their

emotions so they reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not

easy to live with or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman

with PMS can help erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to

deal with, it does explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to

it personally or let it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET

IT GO. It doesn't do us any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I

hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

I, too, have spoken at length to my therapist about this and she states VERY

CLEARLY that they " can " control themselves when they choose to. Their ability

to do this (or at least keep up social appearances of such) is what makes them

believable in society and gives KO's the appearance of being the " crazy ones. "

If they were unable to control themselves, no one would doubt their insanity and

thus OUR struggle wouldn't be so difficult.

Their insticts are to just " let it all hang out " and be totally " reactionary "

and " crazy " but, they CAN affect their emotions/actions/reactions where there is

cause enough for them to do so. Unfortunately for us, it's a lot of hard work

for THEM and so, those closest to the BPD get the crappy behaviours unless we

choose to " Opt out " and go LC or NC... and then the behaviours continue

regarding us, we're just not around to see them.

Lynnette

>

> I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so they

reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to live with

or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with PMS can help

erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal with, it does

explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it personally or let

it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT GO. It doesn't do us

any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

I've watched both my mother and my soon to be ex husband control themselves when

appearances are important to them. They can very much control their actions.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Fri, October 9, 2009 1:08:02 PM

Subject: Re: NADA'S CAN'T HELP THIS

I, too, have spoken at length to my therapist about this and she states VERY

CLEARLY that they " can " control themselves when they choose to. Their ability

to do this (or at least keep up social appearances of such) is what makes them

believable in society and gives KO's the appearance of being the " crazy ones. "

If they were unable to control themselves, no one would doubt their insanity and

thus OUR struggle wouldn't be so difficult.

Their insticts are to just " let it all hang out " and be totally " reactionary "

and " crazy " but, they CAN affect their emotions/actions/ reactions where there

is cause enough for them to do so. Unfortunately for us, it's a lot of hard

work for THEM and so, those closest to the BPD get the crappy behaviours unless

we choose to " Opt out " and go LC or NC... and then the behaviours continue

regarding us, we're just not around to see them.

Lynnette

>

> I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so they

reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to live with

or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with PMS can help

erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal with, it does

explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it personally or let

it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT GO. It doesn't do us

any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

That's the key phrase my therapist points out regularly, " IMPORTANT TO THEM. "

It's very ego-centric... as are BPD's. They feel wronged by everyone and so

lash out to " stake their claim " in the world by manipulation, bullying, waifing

when necessary... whatever it takes to fill them up.

Lynnette

> >

> > I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so they

reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to live with

or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with PMS can help

erupting with hers. While this doesn't make it easier to deal with, it does

explain it. I think in that regard we can either react to it personally or let

it go as difficult as that is. For our own sakes LET IT GO. It doesn't do us

any good to hold on to it and probably harms us. I hope this helps.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Totally reactionary. " That's perfect.

This issue was at the heart of what first took me to my therapist -- to

understand about PDs and nada could or couldn't control. Ironically, it was

learning that she COULD control her actions, rather than that she COULDN'T that

helped me - it's what allowed me to break free emotionally.

And, keeping up appearances finally got to be TOO MUCH work for nada, she let

all of her craziness out for the world to see when she landed in the hospital

last fall, and it hasn't been back in the cage since.

Suzy

[Guest guest]

Nada's " Letting it out " in front of her Dr's is what landed me with my

therapist. For the first time in my LIFE... someone else saw it, called it,

labeled it and jumped in to help ME.

Lynnette

>

> " Totally reactionary. " That's perfect.

>

> This issue was at the heart of what first took me to my therapist -- to

understand about PDs and nada could or couldn't control. Ironically, it was

learning that she COULD control her actions, rather than that she COULDN'T that

helped me - it's what allowed me to break free emotionally.

>

> And, keeping up appearances finally got to be TOO MUCH work for nada, she let

all of her craziness out for the world to see when she landed in the hospital

last fall, and it hasn't been back in the cage since.

>

> Suzy

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > " Totally reactionary. " That's perfect.

> >

> > This issue was at the heart of what first took me to my therapist -- to

understand about PDs and nada could or couldn't control. Ironically, it was

learning that she COULD control her actions, rather than that she COULDN'T that

helped me - it's what allowed me to break free emotionally.

> >

> > And, keeping up appearances finally got to be TOO MUCH work for nada, she

let all of her craziness out for the world to see when she landed in the

hospital last fall, and it hasn't been back in the cage since.

> >

> > Suzy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yep! You're exactly right, Jackie. My aunt and uncle avoided my mother like

the plague because they didn't like the way she treated people yet did

nothing to step in and help me or my sister. It still pisses me off....my aunt

(who would be my mother's sister in law) recently basically told me to

just 'get over' my childhood and stop living in the past. If I could have

smacked her through the phone, I just might have! I seriously don't sit around

and dwell on things and pay a therapist $140 an hour for the fun of it and

because I LIKE having these issues. I want to get better and NOT have

these issues...you kinda have to dwell on them, at least for a time, to get

them behind you, I believe.

In a message dated 10/9/2009 4:50:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddog@... writes:

I totally agree with you, !! I have had relatives tell me they know

my mother is " difficult " and has a mean streak...yet no one ever does

anything..they just let her get away with everything short of murder, like

you said...I think in my family it's more they didn't want to get

involved,

and thought it was none of their business..and for all I know someone said

something to her and attacked them, and they backed off...

Jackie

> That's interesting. You know, though, I never thought people 'saw' my

> mother for the things she did, but now that she is dead and I talk to

> people,

> they'll say things like...'well, we all knew your mom had problems.'

> Thanks so much for helping me as a child, right?

> Ugh.

>

> I also remember her putting on heirs for others. She wanted people to

> think

> she was such a good mother and she would tell me as a child how lucky I

> was or how much more I had and when I would look around and see with my

> own

> eyes that it wasn't true, it was soooo confusing to me.

>

> My t says there is no way you can be a product of a BPD parent like I am

> and not have issues. I am working SO hard to get past these issues, but

> sometimes I do believe it would have been easier to have a schizophrenic

> for a

> parent.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've seen my nada control herself...she looks like she's ready to explode,

and the wrath is worse when she does let it go, but she has never let it go

in public, she cannot stand for an outsider to see/think she's not

perfect...

Jackie

I am not sure they CAN control it and i think this is what separates them

and makes them true BPDers. Their brains don't function normally. My

therapist says they function on 'old brain' emotions and 'flip their lids'

basically....

[Guest guest]

I am not saying that they can't control their behavior. I am saying they can't

control their emotions. BIG difference. This from a mental health therapist

too! They are mentally ILL and they don't think they are doing wrong, which is

a BIG part of the problem. When I was growing up, a nada could do anything

short of murder to their child and everyone looked the other way. It was

'acceptable' and there were no laws really to protect children. The children of

BPDs are usually taken away from them now or should be.

[Guest guest]

I agree on that one too , its so hard and confusing

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Fri, October 9, 2009 9:39:57 PM

Subject: Re: Re: NADA'S CAN'T HELP THIS

 

That's interesting. You know, though, I never thought people 'saw' my

mother for the things she did, but now that she is dead and I talk to people,

they'll say things like...'well, we all knew your mom had problems.'

Thanks so much for helping me as a child, right?

Ugh..

I also remember her putting on heirs for others. She wanted people to think

she was such a good mother and she would tell me as a child how lucky I

was or how much more I had and when I would look around and see with my own

eyes that it wasn't true, it was soooo confusing to me.

My t says there is no way you can be a product of a BPD parent like I am

and not have issues. I am working SO hard to get past these issues, but

sometimes I do believe it would have been easier to have a schizophrenic for a

parent.

In a message dated 10/9/2009 4:15:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddoghughes (DOT) net writes:

I've seen my nada control herself...she looks like she's ready to explode,

and the wrath is worse when she does let it go, but she has never let it

go

in public, she cannot stand for an outsider to see/think she's not

perfect...

Jackie

I am not sure they CAN control it and i think this is what separates them

and makes them true BPDers. Their brains don't function normally. My

therapist says they function on 'old brain' emotions and 'flip their lids'

basically... b

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with you, !! I have had relatives tell me they know

my mother is " difficult " and has a mean streak...yet no one ever does

anything..they just let her get away with everything short of murder, like

you said...I think in my family it's more they didn't want to get involved,

and thought it was none of their business..and for all I know someone said

something to her and attacked them, and they backed off...

Jackie

> That's interesting. You know, though, I never thought people 'saw' my

> mother for the things she did, but now that she is dead and I talk to

> people,

> they'll say things like...'well, we all knew your mom had problems.'

> Thanks so much for helping me as a child, right?

> Ugh.

>

> I also remember her putting on heirs for others. She wanted people to

> think

> she was such a good mother and she would tell me as a child how lucky I

> was or how much more I had and when I would look around and see with my

> own

> eyes that it wasn't true, it was soooo confusing to me.

>

> My t says there is no way you can be a product of a BPD parent like I am

> and not have issues. I am working SO hard to get past these issues, but

> sometimes I do believe it would have been easier to have a schizophrenic

> for a

> parent.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh Jackie me too, its like the family all follow her and agree with my nada for

an easy life and you can see her gradually sucking the life out of them, and

they get so angry then she makes out it is them with the problem.

As much as I miss and crave and yearn for a mom that I never had, and I am

grieving my life is so much more peaceful now I am NC, dont get me wrong living

without being brought into all the drama takes a while to get used to, and Im

like wow is this life, but I feel so much better in myself mentally and

physically.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Fri, October 9, 2009 9:50:00 PM

Subject: Re: Re: NADA'S CAN'T HELP THIS

 

I totally agree with you, !! I have had relatives tell me they know

my mother is " difficult " and has a mean streak...yet no one ever does

anything..they just let her get away with everything short of murder, like

you said...I think in my family it's more they didn't want to get involved,

and thought it was none of their business..and for all I know someone said

something to her and attacked them, and they backed off...

Jackie

> That's interesting. You know, though, I never thought people 'saw' my

> mother for the things she did, but now that she is dead and I talk to

> people,

> they'll say things like...'well, we all knew your mom had problems.'

> Thanks so much for helping me as a child, right?

> Ugh.

>

> I also remember her putting on heirs for others. She wanted people to

> think

> she was such a good mother and she would tell me as a child how lucky I

> was or how much more I had and when I would look around and see with my

> own

> eyes that it wasn't true, it was soooo confusing to me.

>

> My t says there is no way you can be a product of a BPD parent like I am

> and not have issues. I am working SO hard to get past these issues, but

> sometimes I do believe it would have been easier to have a schizophrenic

> for a

> parent.

>

>

[Guest guest]

well, thats their problem, not mine :-) I don't want to do the BPD dance

any more...

Jackie

Oh Jackie me too, its like the family all follow her and agree with my nada

for an easy life and you can see her gradually sucking the life out of them,

and they get so angry then she makes out it is them with the problem.

As much as I miss and crave and yearn for a mom that I never had, and I am

grieving my life is so much more peaceful now I am NC, dont get me wrong

living without being brought into all the drama takes a while to get used

to, and Im like wow is this life, but I feel so much better in myself

mentally and physically.

[Guest guest]

It would be, perhaps accurate to say their emotional regulation is out

of whack, but that is not the same as having no control. Furthermore,

they are in control of the denial mechanism that causes to many of them

to drop their own therapists like yesterday s underwear anytime they get

remotely close to their issues.

They are very much like an emotional analog of an eating disorder.

Nothing you can do will make an anorexic girl eat, or a bulimic girl

stop purging, until they choose to accept help. And nothing you or

anyone can do will make a BPD choose to accept responsibility for their

actions, give credit for our actions, or see the world in any framework

other than their black and white all good or all evil context.

I m sorry to disagree so vehemently ( boy , doesnt THAT sound like a KO

? ) but some well meaning, but inexperienced or uninformed therapists

can do more harm than good with complex issues like PD or addictions. Or

to put it another way, bullshit.

And , while I think I understand that you mean dont take it personally,

rather than don t react to it personally, again I must disagree. It IS

personal. That is why nada s dont vent their spleen on the manager at

Wal Mart, or the Cop or the judge, they vent it on their helpless

children, us. Or their mates, or their siblings. But in particular BPD s

dump their rages, and their extreme emotional neediness, and thier

emotional incest, and all the stuff that makes us all so comfortable

with the words " My Therapist " on us, their children. It is personal.

And we should not " let it go " .

Rather, we should take it personally, but place it in the context of

whatever it takes for us to be healthy. We set safe bounderies, and if

they violate our personal bounderies, we enforce consequences. If they

rage or abuse us, and refuse, ( their choice, ) to do the hard work with

a therapist to get well, then we refuse to admit toxic people to

personal space. We should never ever ever EVER just accept their

abuses, rages, emotional blackmail, and disregard its effect on us, and

minimize it with the excuse , well they are sick.

And, as anectdotal evidence that they do have some measure of control,

on thier poorly regulated emotions. A few years ago, my nada was at her

Dr s office. She went into " uncontrollable " crying, and the nurse

called me to say she was having a nervous breakdown, and Dr was sending

her to the psychiatrist, and could I please come and take her there. I

did, against my better judgement. And the instant we were outside the Dr

s office, on the way to my car, the crying stopped , never restarted,

and she decided she should take her car home first and then have me take

her to the Shrink.

How s that for a nervous breakdown? But she was in control, and got what

she wanted, control and attention, by applied use of her out of control

emotions. She didnt want to be hospitalized, so she wasnt. But she

wanted her Dr to call me and make me screw my day up to come from work

and transport her, so she could get her HOOVER needs met, and she won.

And that evening she went home and was fine. Dont tell ME they can t

control that stuff. They are highly manipulative, and they choose to

keep the unregulated emotions, and they weild it like a club, or like a

rapier, depending on who they want to manipulate and what they need at

the time.

So, yea, take it very personally. As long as they choose to continue in

their PD, let them do it without you. Until and unless they heal, you

are not and will never be a child, just a resource. They will not

relate to you, they will manipulate you to give them what they need.

Keep healing. We are worth it.

Doug

>

> I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained

to me that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their

emotions so they reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this

is not easy to live with or deal with, but they can't help it any more

than a woman with PMS can help erupting with hers. While this doesn't

make it easier to deal with, it does explain it. I think in that regard

we can either react to it personally or let it go as difficult as that

is. For our own sakes LET IT GO. It doesn't do us any good to hold on to

it and probably harms us. I hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I spoke to my mental health therapist friend and she explained to me

that a big part of BPD is being totally unable to control their emotions so they

reupt with them when they feel like it. Certainly this is not easy to live with

or deal with, but they can't help it any more than a woman with PMS can help

erupting with hers.

Boulderdash !!

mg

[Guest guest]

>

> You bring up another great point, Jackie.

>

> They know how to " hold it " in front of people they want to pretend they are

normal to. That is another clear indicator that they *can* control how they

behave. Some people in my family have never seen the sadistic side of nada,

because I was always her chosen target.

>

> They decide who will be the players in their sick game. And they absolutely

know what they are doing.

>

The fact that nada knows exactly what she is doing and I am her primary target

gives me strength for LC. I somehow feel reassured that if I am absent from her

life that she is lashing out at others and feel a personal validation.

[Guest guest]

EXCELLENT POINTS !!!!

>

> " Totally reactionary. " That's perfect.

>

> This issue was at the heart of what first took me to my therapist -- to

understand about PDs and nada could or couldn't control. Ironically, it was

learning that she COULD control her actions, rather than that she COULDN'T that

helped me - it's what allowed me to break free emotionally.

>

> And, keeping up appearances finally got to be TOO MUCH work for nada, she let

all of her craziness out for the world to see when she landed in the hospital

last fall, and it hasn't been back in the cage since.

>

> Suzy

>