Re: Megaloblastic Anemia vs Pernicious Anemia?

[Guest guest]

, I had never heard of this until you brought it to my attention.If you have not done so already, please contact someone with Autism Research Institute and recommend that they study the link between this and autism. You may have uncovered something very important here.

Another question - have you had an EEG? If so, did it show any abnormalities?In a lot of ways you sound like my son. He was diagnosed with Partial Rolandic Epilepsy. I've always wondered if he has had strokes. The seizure activity is happening in the part of his brain that controls language.

Do you remember when you started talking and understanding/participating in conversation?My son is 6 and has not increased language skills since age 3. I'm wondering if he will be able to do so.

 

 

I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a diagnosis of this as well as " autism " ? Google pernicious anemia,and neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.

Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in " autism " ,mine and others.Is there a difference between " megaloblastic " and " pernicious " anemia?Can megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I know both are treated with MB12.

I have had very severe nonspecific " whole body " joint pain,ever since I was eleven years old.The more severe episodes often have a high fever that goes along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have fibromyalgia either.I do have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to keep under control,even with MB12,but it is under control. This is well documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic " strokes " ,also controlled by MB12,are back.

It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with " autism " have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of " dysfunction " .

                                                                                   

-- Robin Broylesrabroyles@...H - C -

[Guest guest]

,I could not agree more. Funny you are bringing this up now as I too have been wondering about why this is not brought up more on all the forums and why my son’s doctor has never used the term “megaloblastic anemia.“ I have been researching this for the past few weeks as I have been trying to figure out why my son is so pale and what my son's high MCV (mean corpuscular volume- size of red blood cells) means.Regarding your question: From what I understand, pernicious anemia is a type of megaloblastic anemia. There are other types of megaloblastic anemias (which is characterized by larger than normal red blood cells) that include folic acid deficiency and B12 deficiency. Pernicious anemia is often used synonymously w/ B12 def., but it specifically refers to anemia resulting from B12 def. caused by an autoimmune metaplastic atrophic

gastritis w/ loss of intrinsic factor. Those who do not have intrinsic factor cannot properly absorb B12, so they must have the injections. You can have B12 deficiency due to vegan, fad diets, decreased acid secretion, small bowel disorders, tapeworm competition, enzyme deficiencies and liver disorders (I’m sure I’m forgetting some other causes). Although I appreciate my son’s doctor prescribing B12 shots, I would really like to know the pathophysiological mechanism for deficiency (if he has one- his B12 or folate was never tested) so that it could be corrected.Now may I ask you: To get the diagnosis for megaloblastic anemia, was your hemoglobin low and your MCV high? I’m assuming that’s what your bloodwork would show to get that diagnosis (?) The reason why I’m asking is b/c my son’s hemoglobin was normal. MCV was the only one that was abnormal. In this case, he may not be anemic but may have hypothyroidism or a

liver disorder since a high MCV could indicate those as well. What type of megaloblastic anemia did your doctor say you had? Folic acid deficiency/B12 deficiency or pernicious (lack of intrinsic factor)? How is this being treated? Do you take folic acid supplements? My son tried folinic acid, but it made him extremely hyper. I will reintroduce it soon. Do you feel your megaloblastic anemia has been corrected (as far as your symptoms go?)Thank you for bringing this up….. you make excellent points. Subject: "Megaloblastic " Anemia vs "Pernicious" Anemia?To: mb12 valtrex Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 4:59 PM

I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a diagnosis of this as well as "autism"? Google pernicious anemia,and neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.

Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in "autism",mine and others.Is there a difference between "megaloblastic" and "pernicious" anemia?Can megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I know both are treated with MB12.I have had very severe nonspecific "whole body" joint pain,ever since I was eleven years old.The more severe episodes often have a high fever that goes along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have fibromyalgia either.I do have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to keep under control,even with MB12,but it is under control. This is well documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic "strokes",also controlled by MB12,are back.

It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with "autism" have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of "dysfunction" .

[Guest guest]

So I am probing this theory, slowly with Kirkman Folinic (400) + B12 (6mcg)

daily- My son is 6, severe PICA and he does not have low Iron or Low Zinc. We

have also tried UPPING B6, slowly- he gets very agitated on it. It began in

December more intensely and we had been slowing down on the MB12 shots. I am

afraid to go higher, I gibve him this dose daily (one cap) plus another 4oo mg

of Folate so a total of 800.

I am afraid, because he presents so anxious and tense all the time- it will

cause more of that. What type of dose- what amount- would help a child in the

event they have a sub-acute form of Megaloblastic anemia? I read about this

months ago while helplessly searching for a reason for the PICA. My son is

non-verbal at age 6 and seems to regress neurologically despite our efforts.

However he maintains what he learns, and is smart and understands almost

everything. Its very complex.

>

> >

> >

> > I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks

> > about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a

> > diagnosis of this as well as " autism " ? Google pernicious anemia,and

> > neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.

> >

> > Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't

> > the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in " autism " ,mine and others.Is

> > there a difference between " megaloblastic " and " pernicious " anemia?Can

> > megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I

> > know both are treated with MB12.

> > I have had very severe nonspecific " whole body " joint pain,ever since I was

> > eleven years old.The more severe episodes often have a high fever that goes

> > along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have

> > fibromyalgia either.I *do* have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to

> > keep under control,even with MB12,but it* is* under control. This is well

> > documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have

> > any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic " strokes " ,also controlled

> > by MB12,are back.

> >

> > It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like

> > mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with " autism "

> > have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of

> > " dysfunction " .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Robin Broyles

> rabroyles@...

> H -

> C -

>

[Guest guest]

Did you check his ferritin levels?

 

Mimoza

 

So I am probing this theory, slowly with Kirkman Folinic (400) + B12 (6mcg) daily- My son is 6, severe PICA and he does not have low Iron or Low Zinc. We have also tried UPPING B6, slowly- he gets very agitated on it. It began in December more intensely and we had been slowing down on the MB12 shots. I am afraid to go higher, I gibve him this dose daily (one cap) plus another 4oo mg of Folate so a total of 800.

I am afraid, because he presents so anxious and tense all the time- it will cause more of that. What type of dose- what amount- would help a child in the event they have a sub-acute form of Megaloblastic anemia? I read about this months ago while helplessly searching for a reason for the PICA. My son is non-verbal at age 6 and seems to regress neurologically despite our efforts. However he maintains what he learns, and is smart and understands almost everything. Its very complex.

> > >> >> > I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks

> > about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a> > diagnosis of this as well as " autism " ? Google pernicious anemia,and> > neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.

> >> > Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't> > the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in " autism " ,mine and others.Is> > there a difference between " megaloblastic " and " pernicious " anemia?Can

> > megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I> > know both are treated with MB12.> > I have had very severe nonspecific " whole body " joint pain,ever since I was

> > eleven years old.The more severe episodes often have a high fever that goes> > along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have> > fibromyalgia either.I *do* have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to

> > keep under control,even with MB12,but it* is* under control. This is well> > documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have> > any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic " strokes " ,also controlled

> > by MB12,are back.> >> > It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like> > mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with " autism " > > have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of

> > " dysfunction " .> >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > -- > Robin Broyles> rabroyles@... > H - > C - >

[Guest guest]

My son did test low in iron. We have been supplementing with 20mg of iron for a couple months now.

 

Did you check his ferritin levels?

 

Mimoza

 

So I am probing this theory, slowly with Kirkman Folinic (400) + B12 (6mcg) daily- My son is 6, severe PICA and he does not have low Iron or Low Zinc. We have also tried UPPING B6, slowly- he gets very agitated on it. It began in December more intensely and we had been slowing down on the MB12 shots. I am afraid to go higher, I gibve him this dose daily (one cap) plus another 4oo mg of Folate so a total of 800.

I am afraid, because he presents so anxious and tense all the time- it will cause more of that. What type of dose- what amount- would help a child in the event they have a sub-acute form of Megaloblastic anemia? I read about this months ago while helplessly searching for a reason for the PICA. My son is non-verbal at age 6 and seems to regress neurologically despite our efforts. However he maintains what he learns, and is smart and understands almost everything. Its very complex.

> > >> >> > I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks> > about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a

> > diagnosis of this as well as " autism " ? Google pernicious anemia,and> > neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.> >> > Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't

> > the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in " autism " ,mine and others.Is> > there a difference between " megaloblastic " and " pernicious " anemia?Can> > megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I

> > know both are treated with MB12.> > I have had very severe nonspecific " whole body " joint pain,ever since I was> > eleven years old.The more severe episodes often have a high fever that goes

> > along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have> > fibromyalgia either.I *do* have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to> > keep under control,even with MB12,but it* is* under control. This is well

> > documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have> > any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic " strokes " ,also controlled> > by MB12,are back.> >

> > It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like> > mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with " autism " > > have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of

> > " dysfunction " .> >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > -- > Robin Broyles> rabroyles@... > H - > C - >

-- Robin Broylesrabroyles@...H - C -

[Guest guest]

I know I have discovered a very important link here.The people at ARI never got back to me.I have not had an EEG since I started having cerebrovascular symptoms,but it should be easy enough to do,all I have to do is go off the MB12 a couple of days for them to come back.I had no problems with talking,but I had serious problems with motor development,and a number of nonverbal learning delays.

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 5:33:01 PMSubject: Re: "Megaloblastic " Anemia vs "Pernicious" Anemia?

, I had never heard of this until you brought it to my attention.

If you have not done so already, please contact someone with Autism Research Institute and recommend that they study the link between this and autism. You may have uncovered something very important here.

Another question - have you had an EEG? If so, did it show any abnormalities?

In a lot of ways you sound like my son. He was diagnosed with Partial Rolandic Epilepsy. I've always wondered if he has had strokes. The seizure activity is happening in the part of his brain that controls language.

Do you remember when you started talking and understanding/ participating in conversation?

My son is 6 and has not increased language skills since age 3. I'm wondering if he will be able to do so.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 5:59 PM, <thorenstd124@ yahoo.com> wrote:

I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a diagnosis of this as well as "autism"? Google pernicious anemia,and neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.

Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in "autism",mine and others.Is there a difference between "megaloblastic" and "pernicious" anemia?Can megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I know both are treated with MB12.I have had very severe nonspecific "whole body" joint pain,ever since I was eleven years old.The more severe episodes often have a high fever that goes along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have fibromyalgia either.I do have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to keep under control,even with MB12,but it is under control. This is well documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic "strokes",also controlled by MB12,are back.

It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with "autism" have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of "dysfunction".

-- Robin Broylesrabroylesgmail (DOT) comH - C -

[Guest guest]

My MCV is high.I don't know about hemoglobin,my doctor never did any followup tests.I have both folic acid and B12 deficiency.I was not tested for intrisic factor.I use both folinic acid and MB12,and it has been a key factor in my recovery from "autism".

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 6:22:36 PMSubject: Re: "Megaloblastic " Anemia vs "Pernicious" Anemia?

,I could not agree more. Funny you are bringing this up now as I too have been wondering about why this is not brought up more on all the forums and why my son’s doctor has never used the term “megaloblastic anemia.“ I have been researching this for the past few weeks as I have been trying to figure out why my son is so pale and what my son's high MCV (mean corpuscular volume- size of red blood cells) means.Regarding your question: From what I understand, pernicious anemia is a type of megaloblastic anemia. There are other types of megaloblastic anemias (which is characterized by larger than normal red blood cells) that include folic acid deficiency and B12 deficiency. Pernicious anemia is often used synonymously w/ B12 def., but it specifically refers to anemia resulting from B12 def. caused by an autoimmune metaplastic atrophic gastritis w/ loss of intrinsic factor. Those who do not have intrinsic factor cannot

properly absorb B12, so they must have the injections. You can have B12 deficiency due to vegan, fad diets, decreased acid secretion, small bowel disorders, tapeworm competition, enzyme deficiencies and liver disorders (I’m sure I’m forgetting some other causes). Although I appreciate my son’s doctor prescribing B12 shots, I would really like to know the pathophysiological mechanism for deficiency (if he has one- his B12 or folate was never tested) so that it could be corrected.Now may I ask you: To get the diagnosis for megaloblastic anemia, was your hemoglobin low and your MCV high? I’m assuming that’s what your bloodwork would show to get that diagnosis (?) The reason why I’m asking is b/c my son’s hemoglobin was normal. MCV was the only one that was abnormal. In this case, he may not be anemic but may have hypothyroidism or a liver disorder since a high MCV could indicate those as well. What type of megaloblastic

anemia did your doctor say you had? Folic acid deficiency/B12 deficiency or pernicious (lack of intrinsic factor)? How is this being treated? Do you take folic acid supplements? My son tried folinic acid, but it made him extremely hyper. I will reintroduce it soon. Do you feel your megaloblastic anemia has been corrected (as far as your symptoms go?)Thank you for bringing this up….. you make excellent points.

From: <thorenstd124@ yahoo.com>Subject: "Megaloblastic " Anemia vs "Pernicious" Anemia?To: mb12 valtrex@ yahoogroups. comDate: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 4:59 PM

I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a diagnosis of this as well as "autism"? Google pernicious anemia,and neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.

Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in "autism",mine and others.Is there a difference between "megaloblastic" and "pernicious" anemia?Can megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I know both are treated with MB12.I have had very severe nonspecific "whole body" joint pain,ever since I was eleven years old.The more severe episodes often have a high fever that goes along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have fibromyalgia either.I do have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to keep under control,even with MB12,but it is under control. This is well documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic "strokes",also controlled by MB12,are back.

It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with "autism" have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of "dysfunction" .

[Guest guest]

My first episode of joint pain was when I was ten years old,and there was a very high fever that went along with it.Google Still's Disease,my symptoms are identical.

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 9:13:45 PMSubject: "Megaloblastic " Anemia vs "Pernicious" Anemia?

- when you were younger, did you actually have joint ‘pain’ or did you just feel like you needed to crack your joints? My 15 yr/old son asks to have his joints cracked all day long. I had him at the chiro for a while but couldn’t afford treatments three times/week. Our insurance doesn’t cover it. He tells me it doesn’t hurt but I know he feels like he MUST crack his neck and back all the time. Just wondering.

Heidi

From: mb12 valtrex@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:mb12 valtrex @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:59 PMTo: mb12 valtrex@ yahoogroups. comSubject: "Megaloblastic " Anemia vs "Pernicious" Anemia?

I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a diagnosis of this as well as "autism"? Google pernicious anemia,and neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.

Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in "autism",mine and others.Is there a difference between "megaloblastic" and "pernicious" anemia?Can megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I know both are treated with MB12.I have had very severe nonspecific "whole body" joint pain,ever since I was eleven years old.The more severe episodes often have a high fever that goes along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have fibromyalgia either.I do have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to keep under control,even with MB12,but it is under control. This is well documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic "strokes",also controlled by MB12,are

back.

It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with "autism" have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of "dysfunction".

[Guest guest]

Iron anemia is not the same thing.

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 5:19:27 PMSubject: Re: Re: "Megaloblastic " Anemia vs "Pernicious" Anemia?

My son did test low in iron. We have been supplementing with 20mg of iron for a couple months now.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Mimoza Durresi <durresimgmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Did you check his ferritin levels?

Mimoza

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:18 PM, theshannster2 <theshannster2@ yahoo.com> wrote:

So I am probing this theory, slowly with Kirkman Folinic (400) + B12 (6mcg) daily- My son is 6, severe PICA and he does not have low Iron or Low Zinc. We have also tried UPPING B6, slowly- he gets very agitated on it. It began in December more intensely and we had been slowing down on the MB12 shots. I am afraid to go higher, I gibve him this dose daily (one cap) plus another 4oo mg of Folate so a total of 800.I am afraid, because he presents so anxious and tense all the time- it will cause more of that. What type of dose- what amount- would help a child in the event they have a sub-acute form of Megaloblastic anemia? I read about this months ago while helplessly searching for a reason for the PICA. My son is non-verbal at age 6 and seems to regress neurologically despite our efforts. However he maintains what he learns, and is smart and understands almost everything. Its very complex.

> > >> >> > I really can't believe in all the posts I have read here,that nobody talks> > about megaloblastic anemia.Am I the only one here who has actually gotten a> > diagnosis of this as well as "autism"? Google pernicious anemia,and> > neuropsychiatric symptoms sometime.> >> > Ever since I have gotten the anemia diagnosis,I have wondered if this isn't> > the possible cause of immune,and GI problems in "autism",mine and others.Is> > there a difference between "megaloblastic" and "pernicious" anemia?Can> > megaloblastic anemia cause autoimmune problems like pernicious anemia can? I> > know both are treated with MB12.> > I have had very severe nonspecific "whole body" joint pain,ever since I was> > eleven years old.The more

severe episodes often have a high fever that goes> > along with it,sort of like Still's Disease,which I do not have.I do not have> > fibromyalgia either.I *do* have megaloblastic anemia,that is very hard to> > keep under control,even with MB12,but it* is* under control. This is well> > documented to cause such pain.I ran out of MB12 yesterday,and will not have> > any until Wedensday.So my joint pain,and metabolic "strokes",also controlled> > by MB12,are back.> >> > It kind of makes me wonder if we are looking at a situation like> > mitochondrial disease,whereby a small per centage of those with "autism"> > have a full-blown folate metabolism disorder,and most just have some sort of> > "dysfunction".> >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > -- > Robin

Broyles> rabroyles@.. . > H - > C - >

-- Robin Broylesrabroylesgmail (DOT) comH - C -