Re: u were right

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry you're hurting right now; it does hurt to not have the very real

injuries done to you recognized, and to receive only condemnation and

vilification from your nada when what you wanted and needed was for her to

express remorse and to ask you for forgiveness.

I guess each of us has to find her (or his) own path through this maze of

mirrors created by our mentally disordered parent, but I have found that any

real information I give my nada will be weaponized and used against me later.

When I do speak with her (and I haven't for several months now) I am careful to

not tell her about what I am really feeling or thinking, or about my real joys

and my real problems. I keep the conversation very superficial and distract her

by asking her to talk about herself.

When I wrote her a letter over a year ago (when she began going to see a

psychiatrist) I wrote a carefully neutral letter in which I gave her positive

feedback for actually going into therapy, but I also stated something like,

" Although I have good memories of my growing-up years with you, unfortunately

for every good memory there is at least one horrific and traumatic memory. " But

I gave no details.

In the last letter I wrote her I said that I needed to not be in contact with

her for now but I hoped that would change sometime in the future. She's been

calling and sending letters ever since (basically ignoring my statement) but I

don't read the letters, listen to the voice messages or respond to them.

-Annie

>

> well, i wrote about writing my bpd mother a letter and u guys warned it would

be a mistake and you were right!! i wrote a non-attacking letter with

situations, she wanted specific situations, so i send it to her and she sent me

the most horrific letter saying i had bpd and im jealous and im bad. ive been

crying for hours. i dont understand how a mother can continue to be so cruel.

how is it i feel so bad about myself when in my right mind i know its her making

me crazy. i want to scream and cry. does anyone know about grandparents rights

in virginia?? she keeps threating me with that?

> missy

>

[Guest guest]

missmissy,

Love yourself anyways. It is the best thing you can do for yourself

and (ironically) the relationship (such as it is).

How awful to be accused of BPD. That happened to me last spring with

someone I encountered online who was a narcissist! Arggh. It was

painful, even though I hardly knew the man.

I am sorry that you are in such pain right now. I could be in your

shoes, if I had discovered BPD when I was younger. It was once (NOT

all that long ago.....) very important for me to have my mom

recognize the place she was in, so she could do something about it. At

one time I wanted her to heal, too and would have given just about

anything towards that goal. No longer. I have very recently gone

through my share of feeling guilty that I could do nothing to help

her, when I recognized she likely had a BPD diagnosis last fall.

It has helped me a lot, to grieve the loss of her instead. She will

never ever be the mom I needed. But I have been given a lot in my

life. Even from nada. But mostly from the folks that helped me to

clean up the inner mess she created in my brother and I. As you heal,

you will find your own resourcefulness and self love. It will

miraculously come out of the pain you are in now.

I believe that this journey as KO is about self-love. To love

ourselves, we must know ourselves as we really are. We need to

separate at some level, in order to know ourselves.And good parents

will KNOW this and honor our journey. And believe me, nada's have a

vested interest in our not knowing or loving ourselves. It may not be

a conscious thing on their part. But the fact is, when we really know

ourselves we naturally are going to have less contact with THEM... and

as we lover ourselves, the treatment nada gives is only going to be

more and more discernible as not loving. This ultimately leads to

limited or no contact.

I still have my issues with wanting nada's love and acceptance, but

even I am finding that my own self-love is helping me to ease into the

possibliity of having no contact....

I am worth having no contact with nada!

Annie, I am sad at reading your note about not sharing anything of

importance to you. But you describe my own path towards more and more

wholeness, very well.

" I have found that any real information I give my nada will be

weaponized and used against me later. When I do speak with her (and I

haven't for several months now) I am careful to not tell her about

what I am really feeling or thinking, or about my real joys and my

real problems. I keep the conversation very superficial and distract

her by asking her to talk about herself. "

As for me, I've been fortunate in being able to set some boundaries

with my nada about information I share being used against me. She

knows better than to do this... , because I told her that if she ever

did use certain things against me that were told in confidence, her

ACTIONS would be END our relationship. There are other things I know

better about, and I NEVER share, because they would be weaponized.

Sad thing is that not sharing personal information has consequences.

It creates a complete desert with little intimacy in the relationship.

Ironically, it is what is MISSING in our relationship that nada got so

irritated about in our recent conversations.

I learned that I have guilt I need to untangle around my deliberate

efforts to do just what Annie has done, so successfully.

It helps to see that someone else has done what I feel guilty about (I

know that must seem silly, but I guess I was in denial about the fact

that I had kept something from growing in the mom-daughter garden,

even if it was to save myself)....and is happily living to tell the

tale. Glad to Annie for sharing that it MUST be done, and that our

peace of mind is worth it.

After all, NADA can never have peace of mind, because her mind is such

a snarl of torment. I am quite powerless over her tragic tangled

garden. She'll have to weed and seed it on her own.

Best,

[Guest guest]

Miss,

I'm so sorry.  It may help to try to remember a few things about what bpd does

to a person's thinking.  On the one hand, emotions and even thoughts are assumed

to be beyond the person's control and can be placed in one's head forcibly by

other people who seem to spark those thoughts and feelings.  And, on the other,

people are either good or bad.

When you wrote a letter that sparked shame and hurt in your nada, she very

likely assumed that you were the one causing her to feel that way--not her own

mind or the way she understands things.  It is as if she thinks you can reach in

her brain and put bad feelings in there.  Since people are either all-good or

all-bad, anyone who would do that is obviously all-bad.  And, in this case, I

don't mean a little bad, I mean evil incarnate.  Right now, you aren't her

precious little child.  You are something like Satan.

In reality, of course, you aren't Satan and you didn't reach in her head and

give her bad feelings.  Your intentions were good--you wanted to help her.  But

it may help to answer that question you have about how she can be so cruel. 

When you are really convinced that someone is evil all through, you don't tend

to consider their feelings very much.  And it's probably why she isn't

considering your feelings right now.

It's really hard to grow up with someone who periodically decides people are

evil in the way your nada does and who also chronically violates boundaries and

turn out to be someone with very firm boundaries who is able to hold onto their

own perceptions despite all feedback to the contrary.  I completely understand

your difficulty in holding onto the idea that it's your mom's illness doing this

and not that you really are bad.  Average, healthy people base at least some of

their idea who they are on what other people seem to think of them.  It messes

with you to have an important person in your life give you an image of yourself

that is so completely off-base.  It would mess with anyone.

But I also wonder if part of the pain lies in understanding that your nada

really is mentally ill.  It's not likely to be cureable and there is little, if

anything, that you can do to help.  You won't ever get a nada who can love and

care for you in a genuine, consistent way.  I think that's a very signficant

realization and a very significant loss.  Even if you alwasy knew that nada was

a little off, there was probably a " good nada " who showed up from time to time

and that, in the back of your mind, you hoped would come back for good.  Really

taking in that she is bpd means understanding that the " good nada " is not and

can never be a permanent resident of your world.  And I think that is painful.

Take care,

Ashana

See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

You may be able to find information by simply googling

grandparents right in state of Virginia

I do this when I want to gather information on a topic; just recently googled

how to care for africian violets because I purchased two lovely plants.

blessigns, mg

>

> well, i wrote about writing my bpd mother a letter and u guys warned it would

be a mistake and you were right!! i wrote a non-attacking letter with

situations, she wanted specific situations, so i send it to her and she sent me

the most horrific letter saying i had bpd and im jealous and im bad. ive been

crying for hours. i dont understand how a mother can continue to be so cruel.

how is it i feel so bad about myself when in my right mind i know its her making

me crazy. i want to scream and cry. does anyone know about grandparents rights

in virginia?? she keeps threating me with that?

> missy

>

[Guest guest]

At 12:58 AM 09/07/2009 mismissy74 wrote:

>well, i wrote about writing my bpd mother a letter and u guys

>warned it would be a mistake and you were right!! i wrote a

>non-attacking letter with situations, she wanted specific

>situations, so i send it to her and she sent me the most

>horrific letter saying i had bpd and im jealous and im bad. ive

>been crying for hours. i dont understand how a mother can

>continue to be so cruel. how is it i feel so bad about myself

>when in my right mind i know its her making me crazy. i want to

>scream and cry.

Missy, I'm sorry your letter didn't have better results.

Sometimes you need to experience something yourself to believe

how bad it can be and to convince yourself that it won't help.

The need to find something that will help can be really strong.

Please don't take your nada's attacks personally though. It

doesn't matter what kind of person you are when you come under

attack by a nada. They attack whoever is filling the position

they want to attack.

>does anyone know about grandparents rights in virginia?? she

>keeps threating me with that?

" Grandparents rights " as nadas and fadas use the term are mostly

a myth that they like to use to make threats. The laws on the

subject mostly concern grandparents who are being prevented from

seeing the children after the other parent ends the relationship

with them when the marriage ends due to a divorce or death, not

cases where parents want to prevent their own mentally ill

parents from seeing the children. There is no general right for

grandparents to force parents to let them have contact with the

children when both parents are there and no abuse is happening.

What there is is a whole slew of websites created by lawyers who

want to take money from grandparents who are upset about not

seeing their grandchildren. Such websites imply that they can

force the parents to do what the grandparents want. As far as I

can tell from a little searching, Virginia allows grandparents

to have forced visitation in the case of divorce or the death of

a parent and only when they can show that it is in the best

interest of the children. Usually, part of that means showing

that they have had an ongoing, good relationship with the

children and that the children would be hurt if the relationship

did not continue. I found information that says the Supreme

Court of Virgina ruled that for the law on grandparents' rights

to apply in the case of an intact marriage, it has to be shown

that the children are being harmed. I think I remember you

mentioning your husband, so you probably don't have anything to

worry about there. Plus, if your children haven't had contact

with your nada, she's not going to be able to show evidence of

an on-going relationship with them, let alone a good

relationship that is important to the children.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Missy,

Unfortunately, you have experienced the retaliatio of a BPD when they feel

cornered and attacked. When I first started on this journey nada was not happy

with the changes. She first demanded that I change back to the way I was. She

then threatened me, raged at me, cried, pleaded and begged. When none of that

worked she resorted to insulting me. She told hubby that I was sick and should

be hospitalized. She told me I was losing my mind and should be committed.

Nada is a bright, well-educated woman, but a BP. I am sure she knows that

something is slightly off, though it is everyone else's fault. At first I also

wanted to talk to her about BP, but something inside me said " don't do it. " She

has seen a psychiatrist (her good friend) for about 30 years. She has had time

and opportunity to do the work and make changes where necessary, but has chosen

not to. I have given up on her. She is what she is. It works for her and she

chooses not to change. All I can do is go on with my life and look after me. You

have to do the same. The pain she has inflicted on you is not worth the effort

to try to help her. No loving mother does to their children what our nadas have

done to us.

As for the grandparents rights thing she is threatening you because she knows

she can hurt you and scare you with that in an attempt to bully you into giving

in to her demands. It is my understanding that is no such thing as " grandparents

rights " anywhere. I could be wrong though.

Abby

>

> well, i wrote about writing my bpd mother a letter and u guys warned it would

be a mistake and you were right!! i wrote a non-attacking letter with

situations, she wanted specific situations, so i send it to her and she sent me

the most horrific letter saying i had bpd and im jealous and im bad. ive been

crying for hours. i dont understand how a mother can continue to be so cruel.

how is it i feel so bad about myself when in my right mind i know its her making

me crazy. i want to scream and cry. does anyone know about grandparents rights

in virginia?? she keeps threating me with that?

> missy

>

[Guest guest]

your right, part of it is trying to realize ive never had a mother and i never

will. im so jealous of my friends that are so close to their mothers. One of

my friends mother dies a few years ago and she is still upset about it. every

year she takes that day off of work and mourns her again. i dont understand it.

i cant imagine loving my mother like that. i wish i could.

i have decided to change my phone number tomorrow and put her on my blocked

email list and my husband is sending her a letter telling her all communication

is shut and that if she sends stuff thru the mail, it will be returned to

sender.

bpd is such a crazy disorder. i feel like i do nothing but beat my head up

against the wall, but i honestly think that would be less painful. i appreciate

your letter, i printed it out and read it to my husband. thank you

missy

---- " W. A. Max " wrote:

> Miss,

>

> I'm so sorry.  It may help to try to remember a few things about what bpd

does to a person's thinking.  On the one hand, emotions and even thoughts are

assumed to be beyond the person's control and can be placed in one's head

forcibly by other people who seem to spark those thoughts and feelings.  And,

on the other, people are either good or bad.

>

> When you wrote a letter that sparked shame and hurt in your nada, she very

likely assumed that you were the one causing her to feel that way--not her own

mind or the way she understands things.  It is as if she thinks you can reach

in her brain and put bad feelings in there.  Since people are either all-good

or all-bad, anyone who would do that is obviously all-bad.  And, in this case,

I don't mean a little bad, I mean evil incarnate.  Right now, you aren't her

precious little child.  You are something like Satan.

>

> In reality, of course, you aren't Satan and you didn't reach in her head and

give her bad feelings.  Your intentions were good--you wanted to help her. 

But it may help to answer that question you have about how she can be so

cruel.  When you are really convinced that someone is evil all through, you

don't tend to consider their feelings very much.  And it's probably why she

isn't considering your feelings right now.

>

> It's really hard to grow up with someone who periodically decides people are

evil in the way your nada does and who also chronically violates boundaries and

turn out to be someone with very firm boundaries who is able to hold onto their

own perceptions despite all feedback to the contrary.  I completely understand

your difficulty in holding onto the idea that it's your mom's illness doing this

and not that you really are bad.  Average, healthy people base at least some of

their idea who they are on what other people seem to think of them.  It messes

with you to have an important person in your life give you an image of yourself

that is so completely off-base.  It would mess with anyone.

>

> But I also wonder if part of the pain lies in understanding that your nada

really is mentally ill.  It's not likely to be cureable and there is little, if

anything, that you can do to help.  You won't ever get a nada who can love and

care for you in a genuine, consistent way.  I think that's a very signficant

realization and a very significant loss.  Even if you alwasy knew that nada was

a little off, there was probably a " good nada " who showed up from time to time

and that, in the back of your mind, you hoped would come back for good.  Really

taking in that she is bpd means understanding that the " good nada " is not and

can never be a permanent resident of your world.  And I think that is painful.

>

> Take care,

> Ashana

>

>

> See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Missy,

I am sorry for what you are going through. I can understand that is is very very

difficult to accept the fact that we don't have mothers and never will. I think

it is part of the grief process.

I do see something positive in this situation though. You sent her a letter to

try to get her to realize and help you with the relationship and she

turned/twisted/attack.

Add this to the long, long list of cruel, inappropriate things she has done to

you. You made an effort and she hurt you. Typical BPD pattern. I think

though, it helps you to see that she isn't the mother you deserved. With each

situation, you will realize that more and more. So while the situations hurt,

eventually you will look back and realize you tried and she cannot change.

These situations knock us down low, but when we get up, I think we move one step

further.

I know it is hard to accept, I really do. But when I think back to the " big "

things nada did to hurt me, I am so grateful she gave me those gifts. The

little things make me feel bad and add up, but I always tried SO hard to get

along with her, and I always blamed myself.

When nada does things exceptionally cruel, I can then see it very clearly and I

think it helps me with my healing process and justifies (in my own head) why I

am NC.

So instead of beating yourself up that you sent the letter, try to see the

positive--it helped you to see more clearly.

Brighter days are ahead--hang in there.

> > Miss,

> >

> > I'm so sorry.  It may help to try to remember a few things about what bpd

does to a person's thinking.  On the one hand, emotions and even thoughts are

assumed to be beyond the person's control and can be placed in one's head

forcibly by other people who seem to spark those thoughts and feelings.  And,

on the other, people are either good or bad.

> >

> > When you wrote a letter that sparked shame and hurt in your nada, she very

likely assumed that you were the one causing her to feel that way--not her own

mind or the way she understands things.  It is as if she thinks you can reach

in her brain and put bad feelings in there.  Since people are either all-good

or all-bad, anyone who would do that is obviously all-bad.  And, in this case,

I don't mean a little bad, I mean evil incarnate.  Right now, you aren't her

precious little child.  You are something like Satan.

> >

> > In reality, of course, you aren't Satan and you didn't reach in her head and

give her bad feelings.  Your intentions were good--you wanted to help her. 

But it may help to answer that question you have about how she can be so

cruel.  When you are really convinced that someone is evil all through, you

don't tend to consider their feelings very much.  And it's probably why she

isn't considering your feelings right now.

> >

> > It's really hard to grow up with someone who periodically decides people are

evil in the way your nada does and who also chronically violates boundaries and

turn out to be someone with very firm boundaries who is able to hold onto their

own perceptions despite all feedback to the contrary.  I completely understand

your difficulty in holding onto the idea that it's your mom's illness doing this

and not that you really are bad.  Average, healthy people base at least some of

their idea who they are on what other people seem to think of them.  It messes

with you to have an important person in your life give you an image of yourself

that is so completely off-base.  It would mess with anyone.

> >

> > But I also wonder if part of the pain lies in understanding that your nada

really is mentally ill.  It's not likely to be cureable and there is little, if

anything, that you can do to help.  You won't ever get a nada who can love and

care for you in a genuine, consistent way.  I think that's a very signficant

realization and a very significant loss.  Even if you alwasy knew that nada was

a little off, there was probably a " good nada " who showed up from time to time

and that, in the back of your mind, you hoped would come back for good.  Really

taking in that she is bpd means understanding that the " good nada " is not and

can never be a permanent resident of your world.  And I think that is painful.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Ashana

> >

> >

> > See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check

out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

you are right. its so hard to see it as a positive thing, but to survive im

gonna have to. she did teach me what NOT to do to my children. she did teach me

that mind games are a terrbile thing to have to deal with. she did teach me that

lying just hurts people and ya cant keep up with the lies anyway. she taught me

to be a better person by her mistakes. when i was living around her and in the

craziness i couldnt see what was going on, i knew it was just crazy and i was

always angry. now that im 500 miles away, i see clearly what she does and i feel

bad for her, but i do have to realize there is nothing i can do to help her and

this is it and im not the angry one anymore. my suggestion to people that live

in the same area as their bpd parent is to MOVE FAR FAR AWAY!! it really helps.

i have to say too, im glad i found this group online and you guys are great and

have helped me thru some rough times.

thanx

missy

---- realmom2two wrote:

> Missy,

>

> I am sorry for what you are going through. I can understand that is is very

very difficult to accept the fact that we don't have mothers and never will. I

think it is part of the grief process.

>

> I do see something positive in this situation though. You sent her a letter to

try to get her to realize and help you with the relationship and she

turned/twisted/attack.

>

> Add this to the long, long list of cruel, inappropriate things she has done to

you. You made an effort and she hurt you. Typical BPD pattern. I think

though, it helps you to see that she isn't the mother you deserved. With each

situation, you will realize that more and more. So while the situations hurt,

eventually you will look back and realize you tried and she cannot change.

These situations knock us down low, but when we get up, I think we move one step

further.

>

> I know it is hard to accept, I really do. But when I think back to the " big "

things nada did to hurt me, I am so grateful she gave me those gifts. The

little things make me feel bad and add up, but I always tried SO hard to get

along with her, and I always blamed myself.

>

> When nada does things exceptionally cruel, I can then see it very clearly and

I think it helps me with my healing process and justifies (in my own head) why I

am NC.

>

> So instead of beating yourself up that you sent the letter, try to see the

positive--it helped you to see more clearly.

>

> Brighter days are ahead--hang in there.

>

>

>

> > > Miss,

> > >

> > > I'm so sorry.  It may help to try to remember a few things about what

bpd does to a person's thinking.  On the one hand, emotions and even

thoughts are assumed to be beyond the person's control and can be placed in

one's head forcibly by other people who seem to spark those thoughts and

feelings.  And, on the other, people are either good or bad.

> > >

> > > When you wrote a letter that sparked shame and hurt in your nada, she very

likely assumed that you were the one causing her to feel that way--not her own

mind or the way she understands things.  It is as if she thinks you can reach

in her brain and put bad feelings in there.  Since people are either all-good

or all-bad, anyone who would do that is obviously all-bad.  And, in this

case, I don't mean a little bad, I mean evil incarnate.  Right now, you

aren't her precious little child.  You are something like Satan.

> > >

> > > In reality, of course, you aren't Satan and you didn't reach in her head

and give her bad feelings.  Your intentions were good--you wanted to help

her.  But it may help to answer that question you have about how she can be

so cruel.  When you are really convinced that someone is evil all through,

you don't tend to consider their feelings very much.  And it's probably why

she isn't considering your feelings right now.

> > >

> > > It's really hard to grow up with someone who periodically decides people

are evil in the way your nada does and who also chronically violates boundaries

and turn out to be someone with very firm boundaries who is able to hold onto

their own perceptions despite all feedback to the contrary.  I completely

understand your difficulty in holding onto the idea that it's your mom's illness

doing this and not that you really are bad.  Average, healthy people base at

least some of their idea who they are on what other people seem to think of

them.  It messes with you to have an important person in your life give you

an image of yourself that is so completely off-base.  It would mess with

anyone.

> > >

> > > But I also wonder if part of the pain lies in understanding that your nada

really is mentally ill.  It's not likely to be cureable and there is little,

if anything, that you can do to help.  You won't ever get a nada who can love

and care for you in a genuine, consistent way.  I think that's a very

signficant realization and a very significant loss.  Even if you alwasy knew

that nada was a little off, there was probably a " good nada " who showed up from

time to time and that, in the back of your mind, you hoped would come back for

good.  Really taking in that she is bpd means understanding that the " good

nada " is not and can never be a permanent resident of your world.  And I

think that is painful.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Ashana

> > >

> > >

> > > See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check

out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

> > >

> > >