Re: NADA DRAMA, family drama, I'm a bundle of nerves.

September 28, 2009

Sara Jo,

You ask why people don't believe there are two sides to a

story. My experience with that is that they don't *want* to

believe there are two sides. It is easier and more comfortable

for them to believe one side and not have to hear and think

about the other side. That way they don't have to evaluate the

situation before choosing a side themselves. It may be that your

sister was just having a bad day though. Don't assume too much

from her text messages. Sometimes the way people treat us has

nothing to do with us and everything to do with something else

going on in their lives and misinterpretting the emotions behind

text messages is really easy.

It is hard to say whether you should give up and stay NC or keep

trying. Whether or not she is really dying, she's not likely to

change. It sounds like she was trying to manipulate you

throughout those two conversations. You don't deserve the kind

of verbal and emotional abuse you describe here. Why does the

fact that she claims she has six months to live matter make a

difference to you? Is it because you can't let go of the

possibility that she might somehow become a real mother? Is it

because you feel guilty thinking about the idea that she might

die alone? Something else? I think that if you identify why that

makes a difference to you, it might clarify your thoughts on

what you should do.

At 10:38 AM 09/28/2009 sara j wrote:

>Oh man, am I feeling screwed up right now.

>

>For starters, I've been on and off NC with my NADA for the past

>two years. There were times we've talked, but they all ended

>badly. So I just stayed away for the most part. The fact that

>we live 10 hours away from each other helps with that, too.

>

>Well, recently, my grandmother died (my Nada's nada). There was

>a lot of bad blood between her, and her kids (my nada and her

>brothers and sisters). Now that she is dead, and the will has

>come out, they are all angry with each other. The people that

>aren't in the will are angry at people that are, etc. I have

>nothing to do with all of this, but I know now that my nada has

>NO ONE now. They are all pissed at each other.

>

>So, Friday, i was on my way to a get together with friends when

>my nada called me. I made the TERRIBLE mistake of answering the

>call. I guess that stupid part of me thought " oh, it's my mom,

>maybe she's just calling to see how I am! " . Boy was I wrong.

>

>She was crying from the get go, asking me all these weird

>questions. She was saying " What happened between us? What did I

>do wrong? Tell me! I need to know NOW!!! " . I didn't know what

>to say. I tried to keep my answers vague and general, because

>reasoning with her is impossible. Then she asked me a very

>wrong question. She asked me if I was telling the truth about

>my grandfather, about how he molested me when I was a kid. I

>went OFF THE HANDLE. I started crying, and I was screaming at

>her, telling her that yes, it was true, and I only wish that it

>wasn't. But that it's something that I've had to deal with my

>whole adult life and that it's screwed me up really good. I

>told her that I couldn't believe she would ask me such a

>question. It was ridiculous. Then she asked me if when she

>dies, if I'm going to be there. What the hell is that all

>about? I think she 's lost her mind. I told her of course I

>want to be there, but that I know I probably won't be welcome.

>She didn't like that answer. I told her I wouldn't be welcome

>because the rest of her family has treated me like crap for the

>past 2 years. And then she tried to argue with me saying that

>they were all nice to me. Are you kidding? I have emails they

>all sent me, that were beyond wretched. Ugh.. I tried asking

>mom what was really wrong, why she needed to call me and ask me

>all these questions. Then she said she had to go, and hung up

>on me. RIDICULOUS!

>SOOOO, I go and meet my friends all the while I'm an emotional

>wreck. I had to be there, because it was a birthday party and I

>was bringing the cake, lol. Otherwise I probably would have

>gone home and taken a bath to get my mind off this stuff. I had

>time to calm down, so I sent my mom a text, that said " Hey mom,

>if you want, I would like to try talking again. I think we can

>have a good relationship if we both work at it. Write back and

>let me know if you want to try " . i thought that since she

>caught me off guard the first time, that I would be better

>equipped the 2nd time, if I had time to prepare myself for a

>talk with her. She texted me back one hour later saying " of

>course I would like to try " . So later when I got home I called

>her. It started out really well. I made sure that I was strong

>the whole time, not to fall into her trap. First, at my

>surprise, she apologized for asking me the question about my

>grandfather earlier. She said it was out of line for her to ask

>such a thing, and that of course she believed me. I couldn't

>believe it, it was the FIRST time I think my mother has

>genuninely apologized for anything. Then she said " I know I

>handled it wrong, Sara, but what was I supposed to do?' She

>said " maybe if you told me right after the first time it

>happened it wouldn't have happened a second time " . She actually

>tried to blame me for being a victim here. I ACtually did tell

>her after the first time, before the 2nd time even happened.

>And I told her right after the 2nd time happened, and she did

>NOTHNIG about it. But I didn't bring that up. I simply said

>that what is in the past is over, that I want to move on and I

>don't want to dwell on that situation anymore. I told her I

>wanted to let it go. She kept trying to bring up the past. I

>said " mom, do you want to rehash the past or do you want to

>move on and be a mother and daughter again? " . I was trying to

>tell her that I didn't want to argue with her. I told her that

>if she wants to be in my life, I need her to respect my life

>and the decisions I've made. Then she got all defensive, saying

>that she always respected my decisions and never tried to make

>me feel guilty about anything, blah blah blah. I told her to

>calm down, that I wasn't accusing her of anything, that I was

>just telling her what I need. Then I asked her what she needed

>from me, and all she said was that she wanted time, to talk and

>try to be close. It was going well. And then she brought up my

>dad. She said " It was very asinine of you to go up and see him

>when you should have been here visiting me instead! " . (I hadn't

>seen or spoken to my dad in 15 years before this summer). She

>accused me of " choosing him over her " . I told her I wasn't

>choosing anyone over the other, that I have the right to have

>both parents in my life if I want. But she wasn't hearing any

>of that. She tried saying " your dad hurt you so bad, don't you

>remember that? I've always loved you unconditionally, I was

>ALWAYS there for you, he wasn't! " . I'm thinking to myself " no,

>mom you didn't love me unconditionally, and you weren't always

>there when I needed you " . In fact, she is the one that kept me

>away from my dad my whole life, and made me think he didn't

>want anything to do with me. Still I tried to remain neutral, I

>didn't want to argue. But she did. She started going off the

>handle again. She told me that I didn't care about her

>feelings, that I didn't even ask her what was wrong earlier

>when she called the first time. I had to remind her that I DID

>ask her what was wrong but she refused to answer me. Then she

>said " oh, well, i was just too upset to answer " . Then she said

> " you've hurt me more than anyone else in my life! I hurt over

>you so much, I have feelings too, did you know that? They found

>a mass on my liver and I might only have 6 months to live!!! "

>(she has cirrhosis and finding stuff on her liver is an

>inevitability) She wouldn't let me speak at this point. Then

>she said " go see your father " and then hung up on me again.

>About the 6 months to live thing, she could be lying. She

>recently tried to tell the family that she had cancer just so

>people would feel bad for her, and then she said it wasn't

>really true. My sister was really upset for a bit, thinking our

>mom was dying of cancer, and then mom told her she just told

>other people that to get them off her back. How sick is that?

>So I really don't believe her about having only 6 months to

>live. When I was talking to her she was out getting ready to go

>shopping. Do people that sick do their own shopping? I don't

>know. A lot more was said (by my nada of course) but this

>message is already long enough.

>

>So now, she must have told my sister about how " Mean " I was on

>the phone, because today my sister is acting really mean to me.

>Me and my sis were talking yesterday, and laughing, and making

>plans. I was going to take her to the dentist tomorrow because

>she is having a root canal, and she is opting for laughing gas.

>I told her I would drive her and stuff. Today, she has been

>texting me (my sis is very non-confrontational) and being

>really cold. She said " don't worry about the dentist tomorrow " .

>When I asked her why, she said " I've made other arrangements " .

>Her texts and other comments were very cold and unlike her

>normal self. So I suspect my nada got her on the phone to tell

>her about how awful I am.

>

>I feel like I'm being persecuted all over again.

>Why doesn't my sis understand that there are 2 sides to every

>story?

>She knows that mom isn't always right in the head, so why is

>she treating me like dirt again?

>

>As soon as I started feeling like I was healing from all of

>this, they rip my wounds open again. I just feel like sobbing.

>I can't believe I answered that damned phone call.

>

>I hate feeling down when I have so many things in my life to be

>happy about. I am happy in general, but I hate having this

>black hole in my heart that is filled with nada stuff. I know

>that sounds weird, but it's the best way for me to explain it.

>

>I don't know if I should just continue my NC, or try again. I

>know that trying to talk again and trying to move on again

>won't work very well, but what if she IS dying?

>

>I'm going through a crisis or sorts. I appreciate your help and

>support.

>

>Thanks,

>Sara Jo

--

Katrina

September 28, 2009

Hi Sara Jo,

Its hard to realize and accept that our nadas are operating from a different

reality than we are. As an earlier post speculated, bpd reality, current and

past, is built around their pathological narcissism; bpds literally are the

center of their own nada-universe.

Nada will spin and edit reality so that nada is All-Good and Perfect. Nothing

bad is ever her fault, not even a portion of it; bad things are always and only

the fault of yourself and other people, and nada is always the victim.

Its sad, frustrating and pointless (for me, anyway) to try to have a

conversation about anything meaningful with a person whose reality is so

radically distorted *as to defy logic and reason.*

The most I can hope for, if I ever resume contact with my nada, is to simply

listen to her talk about trips she has made, items she has bought, events she

has attended, etc., and insert polite comments now and then such as, " How nice! "

or " That must have been fun for you! "

No topic more deep or meaningful than I'd have with a casual acquaintance or a

co-worker at the office will ever be broached.

Any effort on her part to bring up negative gossip about her friends and our

family, attempts to rage at me, insult me, blame me for our estrangement or FOG

me will get an abrupt, " I'm not going to listen to that, mom. I'm hanging up

now. " And, I will not offer any advice or opinions about any problems she is

experiencing, at all; I will only say something like, " I know you will think of

some way to handle that, mom. "

I expect that future conversations, if we have them, will probably be extremely

short.

So if you are determined to remain in contact with your nada, maybe think about

settling for having only very short and pleasantly superficial conversations

with her and ending the conversations before they can evolve into pointless and

unresolvable debate, accusations, and stressful drama.

-Annie

>

> Oh man, am I feeling screwed up right now.

>

> For starters, I've been on and off NC with my NADA for the past two years.

There were times we've talked, but they all ended badly. So I just stayed away

for the most part. The fact that we live 10 hours away from each other helps

with that, too.

>

> Well, recently, my grandmother died (my Nada's nada). There was a lot of bad

blood between her, and her kids (my nada and her brothers and sisters). Now that

she is dead, and the will has come out, they are all angry with each other. The

people that aren't in the will are angry at people that are, etc. I have nothing

to do with all of this, but I know now that my nada has NO ONE now. They are all

pissed at each other.

>

> So, Friday, i was on my way to a get together with friends when my nada called

me. I made the TERRIBLE mistake of answering the call. I guess that stupid part

of me thought " oh, it's my mom, maybe she's just calling to see how I am! " . Boy

was I wrong.

>

> She was crying from the get go, asking me all these weird questions. She was

saying " What happened between us? What did I do wrong? Tell me! I need to know

NOW!!! " . I didn't know what to say. I tried to keep my answers vague and

general, because reasoning with her is impossible. Then she asked me a very

wrong question. She asked me if I was telling the truth about my grandfather,

about how he molested me when I was a kid. I went OFF THE HANDLE. I started

crying, and I was screaming at her, telling her that yes, it was true, and I

only wish that it wasn't. But that it's something that I've had to deal with my

whole adult life and that it's screwed me up really good. I told her that I

couldn't believe she would ask me such a question. It was ridiculous. Then she

asked me if when she dies, if I'm going to be there. What the hell is that all

about? I think she 's lost her mind. I told her of course I want to be there,

but that I know I probably won't be welcome. She didn't like that answer. I told

her I wouldn't be welcome because the rest of her family has treated me like

crap for the past 2 years. And then she tried to argue with me saying that they

were all nice to me. Are you kidding? I have emails they all sent me, that were

beyond wretched. Ugh.. I tried asking mom what was really wrong, why she needed

to call me and ask me all these questions. Then she said she had to go, and hung

up on me. RIDICULOUS!

> SOOOO, I go and meet my friends all the while I'm an emotional wreck. I had to

be there, because it was a birthday party and I was bringing the cake, lol.

Otherwise I probably would have gone home and taken a bath to get my mind off

this stuff. I had time to calm down, so I sent my mom a text, that said " Hey

mom, if you want, I would like to try talking again. I think we can have a good

relationship if we both work at it. Write back and let me know if you want to

try " . i thought that since she caught me off guard the first time, that I would

be better equipped the 2nd time, if I had time to prepare myself for a talk with

her. She texted me back one hour later saying " of course I would like to try " .

So later when I got home I called her. It started out really well. I made sure

that I was strong the whole time, not to fall into her trap. First, at my

surprise, she apologized for asking me the question about my grandfather

earlier. She said it was out of line for her to ask such a thing, and that of

course she believed me. I couldn't believe it, it was the FIRST time I think my

mother has genuninely apologized for anything. Then she said " I know I handled

it wrong, Sara, but what was I supposed to do?' She said " maybe if you told me

right after the first time it happened it wouldn't have happened a second time " .

She actually tried to blame me for being a victim here. I ACtually did tell her

after the first time, before the 2nd time even happened. And I told her right

after the 2nd time happened, and she did NOTHNIG about it. But I didn't bring

that up. I simply said that what is in the past is over, that I want to move on

and I don't want to dwell on that situation anymore. I told her I wanted to let

it go. She kept trying to bring up the past. I said " mom, do you want to rehash

the past or do you want to move on and be a mother and daughter again? " . I was

trying to tell her that I didn't want to argue with her. I told her that if she

wants to be in my life, I need her to respect my life and the decisions I've

made. Then she got all defensive, saying that she always respected my decisions

and never tried to make me feel guilty about anything, blah blah blah. I told

her to calm down, that I wasn't accusing her of anything, that I was just

telling her what I need. Then I asked her what she needed from me, and all she

said was that she wanted time, to talk and try to be close. It was going well.

And then she brought up my dad. She said " It was very asinine of you to go up

and see him when you should have been here visiting me instead! " . (I hadn't seen

or spoken to my dad in 15 years before this summer). She accused me of " choosing

him over her " . I told her I wasn't choosing anyone over the other, that I have

the right to have both parents in my life if I want. But she wasn't hearing any

of that. She tried saying " your dad hurt you so bad, don't you remember that?

I've always loved you unconditionally, I was ALWAYS there for you, he wasn't! " .

I'm thinking to myself " no, mom you didn't love me unconditionally, and you

weren't always there when I needed you " . In fact, she is the one that kept me

away from my dad my whole life, and made me think he didn't want anything to do

with me. Still I tried to remain neutral, I didn't want to argue. But she did.

She started going off the handle again. She told me that I didn't care about her

feelings, that I didn't even ask her what was wrong earlier when she called the

first time. I had to remind her that I DID ask her what was wrong but she

refused to answer me. Then she said " oh, well, i was just too upset to answer " .

Then she said " you've hurt me more than anyone else in my life! I hurt over you

so much, I have feelings too, did you know that? They found a mass on my liver

and I might only have 6 months to live!!! " (she has cirrhosis and finding stuff

on her liver is an inevitability) She wouldn't let me speak at this point. Then

she said " go see your father " and then hung up on me again.

> About the 6 months to live thing, she could be lying. She recently tried to

tell the family that she had cancer just so people would feel bad for her, and

then she said it wasn't really true. My sister was really upset for a bit,

thinking our mom was dying of cancer, and then mom told her she just told other

people that to get them off her back. How sick is that? So I really don't

believe her about having only 6 months to live. When I was talking to her she

was out getting ready to go shopping. Do people that sick do their own shopping?

I don't know. A lot more was said (by my nada of course) but this message is

already long enough.

>

> So now, she must have told my sister about how " Mean " I was on the phone,

because today my sister is acting really mean to me. Me and my sis were talking

yesterday, and laughing, and making plans. I was going to take her to the

dentist tomorrow because she is having a root canal, and she is opting for

laughing gas. I told her I would drive her and stuff. Today, she has been

texting me (my sis is very non-confrontational) and being really cold. She said

" don't worry about the dentist tomorrow " . When I asked her why, she said " I've

made other arrangements " . Her texts and other comments were very cold and unlike

her normal self. So I suspect my nada got her on the phone to tell her about how

awful I am.

>

> I feel like I'm being persecuted all over again.

> Why doesn't my sis understand that there are 2 sides to every story?

> She knows that mom isn't always right in the head, so why is she treating me

like dirt again?

>

> As soon as I started feeling like I was healing from all of this, they rip my

wounds open again. I just feel like sobbing. I can't believe I answered that

damned phone call.

>

> I hate feeling down when I have so many things in my life to be happy about. I

am happy in general, but I hate having this black hole in my heart that is

filled with nada stuff. I know that sounds weird, but it's the best way for me

to explain it.

>

> I don't know if I should just continue my NC, or try again. I know that trying

to talk again and trying to move on again won't work very well, but what if she

IS dying?

>

> I'm going through a crisis or sorts. I appreciate your help and support.

>

> Thanks,

> Sara Jo

>

September 28, 2009

The wisdom of your post resides in this sentence, " I had to

be there, because it was a birthday party and I was bringing the cake, lol. "

Sometimes, the best thing we can do for ourselves is to BE NORMAL.... even if it

feels all weird and we have to many 'back stories' that we feel like we're

drowning. You did this!

Sounds like your sister is a very reactionary personality... a by-product of

being raised by a BPD... always trying to keep the boat level so she doesn't get

swept overboard. It's irritating. It's maddening. It's hurtful. However,

look at her, her perceived reality... try to find pity in your heart for her...

has to be SCARY SCARY SCARY to be her. Always afraid of when Nada is going to

get man, when she's going to have to go into crisis management mode or be swept

overboard... feel sorry for her... keep your integrity but don't throw yourself

overboard too!

There used to be a pop-psych mantra of " act like you're happy and eventually you

WILL be happy " . I think that applies to BPD KO's too... ACT like you're normal

(bring cake!), don't bring your internal drama to the party - leave it in the

trunk, and pretty soon you will feel normal because you won't have any reason

(external at first then interal with time) to be anything BUT!

You Nada was right about one thing, " Go visit your dad. " It's good to surround

ourselves with people that were exposed, and escaped, the BPD relationship.

They see it. They get it. Normal people avoid it. He did. You can. Sister

is left to be seen.

Lynnette