Re: A HOW TO Lesson ~

October 5, 2009

Lynnette,

I'm so sorry to hear your son is sick. If he has H1N1, the flu shot he got

isn't for that, vaccines for H1N1 aren't out yet..your sons was probably

just for the yearly flu. The yearly shot does not prevent the flu, it just

lessens the duration and severity, plus it isn't effective unless he had it

at least 2 weeks ago ( that's how long it take for the body to build

antibodies to the vaccine) Wow, what a great breakthrough for you, though,

NOT calling nada !! you are 100% right in her response!! good for you !!

now, don't YOU get sick too !!

Jackie

I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt

at 1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment

could potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their

individual crisis. I'll explain.

My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu.

He's had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But

at least one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon

at above mentioned time. This could get bad.

I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided

NOT to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in

handy...)

1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't

deal with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how

devastated she was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen

will be to miss the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make

(first game this afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to

the party.

2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I

came FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up.

Not expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the

Dr's appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my

hands fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am

not gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them

everything (when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything

with my Mother, I thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to

be a habit... the first few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with

my own hands... but trust me, it gets easier). It's also important to

really write down (for me - here) what IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do

tell them (see above.)

A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have

to involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an

option B... find it!

Peace.

Lynnette

October 5, 2009

I agree with this. Completely

Even when I was LC I learned not to tell nada ANYTHING of importance. It always

got turned, twisted and gave her a soapbox to stand on to shout to the world I

was an awful mother and human being.

When my newborn was very sick, I had my hands full. My doctor called me daily

to discuss his condition and I was in there regularly. Nada called everyone in

the family and friends to tell them I was a bad mother. I got calls from her

NEIGHBORS telling me I wasn't doing my job taking care of my baby. It was a

LIE. I had my hands full and worked day and night to get him better. A REAL

mother would have been over here, holding him so I could take a nap or bringing

a meal here or there. Nope, her time was spent calling everyone in her phone

book telling them what a bad mother I was. Sick.

I would never, ever tell her (well, we are NC but even if we weren't) that he

has a learning disability. She says that she cures autism. My nephew is

autistic when when he goes to her house, she sits him in front of the tv and he

" doesn't bother anyone. " Nada puts down his mother and says he isn't autistic,

if she'd just give him over to nada to raise, he'd be fiiiine (sitting in front

of the tv morning-noon-and-night) and wouldn't need any special therapy/school.

It's all just ridiculous.

Nadas don't get it and never ever will. How smart of you Lynette not to let her

come crashing in making an already bad situation worse. That is what nadas do

during these stressful times. If they see you are holding up well and handling

what you've been dished out well, they gotta get you to your knees crying. And

to hurt a child who is already afraid is hitting the ultimate jackpot-in their

twisted minds.

Good advice. I learned it a long time ago and live a much calmer life. Even when

things get thrown at us that are hard to deal with (we are dealing with MRSA

now) we can get through it better without being emotionally beat on.

Hope your son feels better soon.

>

> I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt at

1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

>

> My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

>

> I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided NOT

to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in handy...)

>

> 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

>

> 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

>

> 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I came

FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

>

> So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

>

> Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

>

> A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have to

involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an option

B... find it!

>

> Peace.

>

> Lynnette

>

October 5, 2009

Jackie,

Yeah... we didn't know the kid had tested positive for N1H1 until Friday... so

really, my son is sorta in the 'no man's land' of flu illnesses. His flu shot

was a week ago so between the time and the if it's N1H1 you're outta luck

here... we're just in limbo.

Funny thing just happened while you must have been writing... he came up to get

my tripod (like to shoot pictures... still has some energy) and I said, 'I

called Grandpa and told him what's going on so he wouldn't show up at football

game later today but I didn't call Nada. " His reply? " Probably a good plan.

She'll make it all about her and show up and be dramatic... seriously, NO ONE

needs that. "

God bless a good therapist and the clarity to be honest!

Lynnette

>

> Lynnette,

>

> I'm so sorry to hear your son is sick. If he has H1N1, the flu shot he got

> isn't for that, vaccines for H1N1 aren't out yet..your sons was probably

> just for the yearly flu. The yearly shot does not prevent the flu, it just

> lessens the duration and severity, plus it isn't effective unless he had it

> at least 2 weeks ago ( that's how long it take for the body to build

> antibodies to the vaccine) Wow, what a great breakthrough for you, though,

> NOT calling nada !! you are 100% right in her response!! good for you !!

> now, don't YOU get sick too !!

>

> Jackie

>

> I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt

> at 1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment

> could potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their

> individual crisis. I'll explain.

>

> My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

> headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu.

> He's had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But

> at least one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon

> at above mentioned time. This could get bad.

>

> I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided

> NOT to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in

> handy...)

>

> 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

> drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't

> deal with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how

> devastated she was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen

> will be to miss the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make

> (first game this afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to

> the party.

>

> 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

> out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

>

> 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

> SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I

> came FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

>

> So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

> stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up.

> Not expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

> disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the

> Dr's appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my

> hands fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am

> not gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

>

> Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

> X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them

> everything (when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything

> with my Mother, I thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to

> be a habit... the first few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with

> my own hands... but trust me, it gets easier). It's also important to

> really write down (for me - here) what IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do

> tell them (see above.)

>

> A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have

> to involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an

> option B... find it!

>

> Peace.

>

> Lynnette

>

October 5, 2009

I think that is excellent advice and I can tell that it was a very big step:

breaking free of the brainwashing to tell nada *everything*.

Your idea to list what happens when nada tries to be " supportive " is very smart;

yes, nadas want to turn any event into a stage, grab the spotlight and star as

the " victim " or " heroine. " As usual, whatever it is becomes all about nada.

I would only suggest that you wait until a event/illness/whatever is entirely

over and done with before letting nada know anything about it. If you let her

know while its still ongoing, she may insist on showing up. Sister started

using that tactic with our nada when her son was growing up. " Oh, he broke his

finger playing football but he's OK now. "

-Annie

>

> I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt at

1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

>

> My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

>

> I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided NOT

to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in handy...)

>

> 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

>

> 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

>

> 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I came

FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

>

> So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

>

> Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

>

> A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have to

involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an option

B... find it!

>

> Peace.

>

> Lynnette

>

October 5, 2009

We have a WINNER! " And to hurt a child who is already afraid is hitting the

ultimate jackpot-in their twisted minds. "

You bet! I have to wonder 'why'.... why is the sick, fearful child their

ultimate prize? Anyone?

I'm at a loss.

Lynnette

> >

> > I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt

at 1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

> >

> > My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

> >

> > I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided

NOT to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in

handy...)

> >

> > 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

> >

> > 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

> >

> > 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I came

FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

> >

> > So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

> >

> > Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

> >

> > A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have

to involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an

option B... find it!

> >

> > Peace.

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

October 5, 2009

Annie,

Self sacrificing " Heroine " ... oh lord, that's it!

I won't expect/ask dad to cover for us by not telling Nada (she, amazingly so,

still calls him several times a week to 'check in' - she's an emotional 12 year

old) so I'll tell her in a few days in a capacity that won't send her running.

She won't come near here if she thinks it's N1H1... that would only " Kill and

old woman like me... " but she'll certainly be on the phone calling everyone she

ever knew saying how hard it is when " Your babies are sick and you've been told

to stay away.... "

Whatever.

Lynnette

> >

> > I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt

at 1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

> >

> > My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

> >

> > I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided

NOT to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in

handy...)

> >

> > 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

> >

> > 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

> >

> > 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I came

FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

> >

> > So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

> >

> > Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

> >

> > A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have

to involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an

option B... find it!

> >

> > Peace.

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

October 5, 2009

I'd like to know the answer to that one, too: that need that my nada has to

" horrible-ize " a situation, to jump (eagerly!)into discussing the worst-case

scenario and make the other person, even a child, who is already frightened or

in pain hurt worse.

That *is* twisted. And its sadistic to derive pleasure from inflicting pain on

other people. To me, that takes the behavior into the realm of evil, or

inhuman.

Why do they do it?

-Annie

> > >

> > > I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt

at 1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

> > >

> > > My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

> > >

> > > I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided

NOT to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in

handy...)

> > >

> > > 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

> > >

> > > 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am

missing out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

> > >

> > > 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous

because SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow

but... I came FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

> > >

> > > So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

> > >

> > > Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she

do X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

> > >

> > > A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have

to involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an

option B... find it!

> > >

> > > Peace.

> > >

> > > Lynnette

> > >

> >

>

October 5, 2009

LOL I see your son got your intelligence !! what a great kid !! Hope he

feels better soon !!

Jackie

Jackie,

Yeah... we didn't know the kid had tested positive for N1H1 until Friday...

so really, my son is sorta in the 'no man's land' of flu illnesses. His flu

shot was a week ago so between the time and the if it's N1H1 you're outta

luck here... we're just in limbo.

Funny thing just happened while you must have been writing... he came up to

get my tripod (like to shoot pictures... still has some energy) and I said,

'I called Grandpa and told him what's going on so he wouldn't show up at

football game later today but I didn't call Nada. " His reply? " Probably a

good plan. She'll make it all about her and show up and be dramatic...

seriously, NO ONE needs that. "

God bless a good therapist and the clarity to be honest!

Lynnette

October 5, 2009

It's fun when you can make someone hurt the way you are hurting.

>

> they will be easier to enmesh/ manipulate/control than a " normal healthy "

> child ??

>

> Jackie

>

> We have a WINNER! " And to hurt a child who is already afraid is hitting the

> ultimate jackpot-in their twisted minds. "

>

> You bet! I have to wonder 'why'.... why is the sick, fearful child their

> ultimate prize? Anyone?

>

> I'm at a loss.

>

> Lynnette

>

October 5, 2009

Hi Lynnette,

Great advice, as always. You've come such a long way and now reign among the

experts! You are so right to share very little, and more importantly " after the

fact. " And, being the good mom, you're raising a smart young man there - he

gets it.

So sorry he's sick (and will miss a big game)- no fun for either one of you.

Given the timing, it could very well be H1N1. It's making the rounds in the

south where my family lives (don't know about your coast), and brother2 is just

recovering. It came on acutely with the symptoms you described. Good news is

that it's relatively easy to prevent spread - noone else in the family got it

(including me while visiting).

Take good care of yourself - you don't need another bout with anything! Hope

your son recovers soon (whatever it turns out to be).

Suzy (back from MIA - took a bad spill recently and have been laid up).

October 5, 2009

Lynette - My son had the same thing 3 weeks ago - fever topped out at 103, took

a Sunday and 3 school days (including the 24 hours without fever, which is

supposed to help keep the flu from spreading, but which I am convinced is

designed to drive mothers insane. I hope your son bounces back as fast as my

son did, and that he gets his homework caught up without too much drama.

Did I mention ANY of this to my mom? Naaaaah. She doesn't work at CDC. I

don't have to report these things to her. I know how to open the Tylenol bottle

and the chicken soup can - there's nothing useful she can tell me that I can't

find on the internet. -

>

> I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt at

1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

>

> My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

>

> I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided NOT

to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in handy...)

>

> 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

>

> 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

>

> 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I came

FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

>

> So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

>

> Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

>

> A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have to

involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an option

B... find it!

>

> Peace.

>

> Lynnette

>

October 5, 2009

Oh, it's swine flu alright - it's all over the schools, just about everywhere.

So your other flu shot will be helpful later, when the " regular " flu comes

around. We're just about bathing in Purel here. But I am so glad to hear he

has found the strength to get the tripod! LOL - these kids will lie on the couch

whining for snacks and tissues, but if they realize their IPOD is down the hall,

they manage to stagger to their feet... poor babies... My son milked the flu for

all it was worth. The first couple of days he really did feel rotten, but after

that it was all about couch time with the remote control - of course, he was

" too ill to do any homework " - oh, brother... -

>

> LOL I see your son got your intelligence !! what a great kid !! Hope he

> feels better soon !!

>

> Jackie

>

> Jackie,

> Yeah... we didn't know the kid had tested positive for N1H1 until Friday...

> so really, my son is sorta in the 'no man's land' of flu illnesses. His flu

> shot was a week ago so between the time and the if it's N1H1 you're outta

> luck here... we're just in limbo.

>

> Funny thing just happened while you must have been writing... he came up to

> get my tripod (like to shoot pictures... still has some energy) and I said,

> 'I called Grandpa and told him what's going on so he wouldn't show up at

> football game later today but I didn't call Nada. " His reply? " Probably a

> good plan. She'll make it all about her and show up and be dramatic...

> seriously, NO ONE needs that. "

>

> God bless a good therapist and the clarity to be honest!

>

> Lynnette

>

October 5, 2009

Update.

Teen's being treated with Tamiflu on the assumption that it is, indeed, swine

flu.

I haven't spoken with Nada today (although she's calling but not leaving

messages - she does this often.)

My Dad is making the " store/pharmacy run. "

I'll probably get it (not a good plan considering everything I have to fight

physically right now) but I'm doing what I can to minimize impact.

It's been a treat to just deal with the Dr's and the stuff necessary rather than

have to manage Nada's emotional reactions... must remember this for all future

times.

Peace.

Lynnette

>

> I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt at

1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

>

> My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

>

> I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided NOT

to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in handy...)

>

> 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

>

> 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

>

> 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I came

FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

>

> So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

>

> Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

>

> A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have to

involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an option

B... find it!

>

> Peace.

>

> Lynnette

>

October 5, 2009

I hope Teen's bout of flu is as short & painless as possible; the Tamiflu should

help. High-five to you for avoiding the nada-drama!

Excellent! How sweet of your Dad to help with store/pharmacy errands. And I too

hope you don't get it; keeping my fingers crossed.

(I believe I got the milder version already, earlier this year, so here's hoping

I've already got some antibodies that will stop me from getting this newer

version that's going around now. Keeping my fingers crossed on that, too.)

-Annie

> >

> > I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt

at 1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

> >

> > My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

> >

> > I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided

NOT to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in

handy...)

> >

> > 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

> >

> > 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

> >

> > 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I came

FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

> >

> > So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

> >

> > Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

> >

> > A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have

to involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an

option B... find it!

> >

> > Peace.

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

October 6, 2009

I have a dumb question...why do we assume they " hurt " so badly ?? do we

know that they actually do ??

Jackie

It's fun when you can make someone hurt the way you are hurting.

October 6, 2009

PDex CLAIMED to be hurting pretty much all the time. He said that he hated

himself. It seems pretty typical BP feelings. They are supposedly empty and fill

it with negative thoughts and feelings. They feel justified in doing whatever

they " need " to do to feel better (even if it's putting someone else down). I

have seen PDex literally try to tear himself to pieces, screaming and crying, he

" hurt " so badly. I put hurt into quotations because that is certainly what it

appeared to me that he was experiencing but I only have my own external

observations as well as his words (he was a pathological liar so I give little

credit to his words). There is, at the very least, evidence that they are

suffering (and try to take us with them) as well as studies that indicate this

is their life experience. That does not mean that they don't also find some

perverse pleasure in tormenting and bullying us.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:34:18 AM

Subject: Re: Re: A " HOW TO " Lesson ~

I have a dumb question...why do we assume they " hurt " so badly ?? do we

know that they actually do ??

Jackie

It's fun when you can make someone hurt the way you are hurting.

October 6, 2009

Lynnette,

So glad you got some meds for your guy. Hope his recovery is swift.

It IS possible not to get it, so WASH those hands constantly, girl! (Dad,

too!). Take good care,

Suzy

October 6, 2009

Jackie,

I do believe that PDs feel tremendous " pain. " The problem is that anything and

EVERYTHING hurts them. They can't assuage it themselves, so they just " offload "

it onto others - usually the one closest - the one they most (secretly) identify

with or are attached to. That offloading covers everything along the spectrum

from just being the pitiful victim to those that are so horrible and sadistic

they defy any degree of understanding or compassion.

I remember a picture my nada took in her mid forties. She thought it was a

lovely picture, but I always hated it. She once asked me why and I told her it

just looked like she was in such pain (it really looked like it was leaking our

her pores). She said, " Really? " It was clear then as now that she has never

really been able to " see " herself as she really is.

Suzy

October 6, 2009

OK, I guess I just dont grasp the " pain " concept. I have severe arthritis,

I'm always in pain...but I don't act like nada does..the pictures of my nada

she always looked mad

Jackie

Jackie,

I do believe that PDs feel tremendous " pain. " The problem is that anything

and EVERYTHING hurts them. They can't assuage it themselves, so they just

" offload " it onto others - usually the one closest - the one they most

(secretly) identify with or are attached to. That offloading covers

everything along the spectrum from just being the pitiful victim to those

that are so horrible and sadistic they defy any degree of understanding or

compassion.

I remember a picture my nada took in her mid forties. She thought it was a

lovely picture, but I always hated it. She once asked me why and I told her

it just looked like she was in such pain (it really looked like it was

leaking our her pores). She said, " Really? " It was clear then as now that

she has never really been able to " see " herself as she really is.

Suzy

October 6, 2009

I guess I just don't " get " the pain and suffering analogy...what do they

have pain from ? and how does hurting other help them ? and with the glint

in her eye and nasty grin/smile on her face, I know my nada enjoys torturing

us !!

Jackie

PDex CLAIMED to be hurting pretty much all the time. He said that he hated

himself. It seems pretty typical BP feelings. They are supposedly empty and

fill it with negative thoughts and feelings. They feel justified in doing

whatever they " need " to do to feel better (even if it's putting someone else

down). I have seen PDex literally try to tear himself to pieces, screaming

and crying, he " hurt " so badly. I put hurt into quotations because that is

certainly what it appeared to me that he was experiencing but I only have my

own external observations as well as his words (he was a pathological liar

so I give little credit to his words). There is, at the very least, evidence

that they are suffering (and try to take us with them) as well as studies

that indicate this is their life experience. That does not mean that they

don't also find some perverse pleasure in tormenting and bullying us.

October 6, 2009

I hear you - I can't get through a day without nsaids*! :/

We don't act like our nadas because we have healthy minds and act and react as

healthy people do (most days)! I don't pretend to truly understand what goes on

in their heads - that would take getting inside a sick mind - and I don't really

want to go to that dark place.

It's just that I've seen my nada react to the minutest thing over time - it used

to be more " hurt and distress " and in later years has turned more to angry

lashing out. I certainly don't feel that she's right to do so, but I've always

felt that it has to come from something - and the closest thing I've ever been

able to relate it to (as I'm sure I've said before) is a hurt or frightened

animal lashing out. That's what she reminds me of. When she feels " threatened "

(usually completely without any basis in reality), she resorts to her base

instinct - to strike out. And many of the staff at her care home have asked her

why she is so angry!

Suzy

*Fish Oil is good, too!

October 6, 2009

Lynette - We were fighting this 3 weeks ago, as I said before - and neither of

us wanted to catch my son's flu - so when he got sick I checked out the CDC

website and here are some tips:

For parents/caregivers who are also medically fragile, it's crucial that you

keep as far away from those germs as you can - so wash your hands a million

times a day, spray a cloud of Lysol before you as you walk through the house,

and as soon as your son is mobile, have HIM bring his infected laundry (sheets,

towels, PJ's) and do a load of his own laundry so you're not handling it. Ditto

with the dishes - he's probably able to get up now, so let him load his own

stuff in the dishwasher. Normally, moms will cater to their sick kids at times

like these, but I think you can get away with keeping a distance, because the

consequences could be more serious for you. If you can get hold of a surgical

mask, have HIM wear it (so he doesn't cough germs). It sounds over the top, but

this strain is so contagious, I stopped caring about appearing overzealous a

month ago - and my son STILL got it.

The good news is that the (young and healthy)kids seem to be getting this, not

so much the (old and pitiful) adults. It's weird.

> >

> > I'm writing this as I watch the time tick by, waiting for son's Dr.'s appt

at 1:45. It dawned on me that steps I'm consciously taking at this moment could

potentially be helpful to some on this board when faced with their individual

crisis. I'll explain.

> >

> > My son is sick. Flashed sick last night - 103 temp, shakes, upset tummy,

headache, etc. 9/14 of his football team was out last week with the flu. He's

had the flu shot so we thought he 'escaped it'... apparently not. But at least

one tested positive for N1H1. We're headed to Dr this afternoon at above

mentioned time. This could get bad.

> >

> > I just got off the phone with my dad to tell him what's what. I've decided

NOT to call Nada. (This is where the usefullness of this post may come in

handy...)

> >

> > 1) To call her now would simply give her the incentive to get in the car,

drive 3 1/2 hours and be at the Dr's appt. " To be supportive. " I can't deal

with her making it somehow about her potential loss... and how devastated she

was when she was sick in 8th grade... and how devastated teen will be to miss

the semi-final games of FB that he worked so hard to make (first game this

afternoon). Basically, she would bring NOTHING POSITIVE to the party.

> >

> > 2) This would provide her with, " I need to move back because *I* am missing

out on so much and what would I do if he DIED from this? Nuff said.

> >

> > 3) It will all become about supporting ME and HIM then turn hideous because

SHE will be the Martyr (I just moved and have my OWN stuff youknow but... I came

FOR YOU! You're my babies!!!!) Ugh.

> >

> > So, after 1 1/2 years+ of therapy I've learned to not call her with this

stuff. Not expect that " this time will be different " if she did show up. Not

expect that " she'd be the mom/grandma I/we need " . That she'd be more

disruptive, damaging, chaotic than she is worth. I will call her after the Dr's

appt later this pm. Won't leave her out of phone updates (I'll have my hands

fully full shortly and can't do long phone chats) but I certainly am not

gift-wrapping a crisis for her to unwrap.

> >

> > Often on this board we talk about " how do I NOT tell her " ... " why did she do

X? " ... well kids, I'm here to say, it is possible to NOT tell them everything

(when therapist told me I wasn't obligated to share everything with my Mother, I

thought she was crazy... took almost a year to get it to be a habit... the first

few times felt like I was ripping my guts out with my own hands... but trust me,

it gets easier). It's also important to really write down (for me - here) what

IS 99% LIKELY to happen if you do tell them (see above.)

> >

> > A word to y'all... use this real world example when you feel like you have

to involve your Nada/Fada's... it's just not worth it. There is ALWAYS an

option B... find it!

> >

> > Peace.

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

October 6, 2009

thanks Suzy ( yup, I take 2 fish oil caps 2X a day on top of 600 IB) when

my knees really hurt, I usually just sit and dont talk much...I don't lash

out, not even at the dog...my nada is the angry lashing out all the time

type, she never sits there " hurt " she's always angry and yelling at

someone...no, I don't really want to go into their dark minds either...too

scary !!

Jackie

I hear you - I can't get through a day without nsaids*! :/

We don't act like our nadas because we have healthy minds and act and react

as healthy people do (most days)! I don't pretend to truly understand what

goes on in their heads - that would take getting inside a sick mind - and I

don't really want to go to that dark place.

It's just that I've seen my nada react to the minutest thing over time - it

used to be more " hurt and distress " and in later years has turned more to

angry lashing out. I certainly don't feel that she's right to do so, but

I've always felt that it has to come from something - and the closest thing

I've ever been able to relate it to (as I'm sure I've said before) is a hurt

or frightened animal lashing out. That's what she reminds me of. When she

feels " threatened " (usually completely without any basis in reality), she

resorts to her base instinct - to strike out. And many of the staff at her

care home have asked her why she is so angry!

Suzy

*Fish Oil is good, too!

October 6, 2009

I know that glint well, especially from nada (and during the last year with

PDex.) There must be some self-satisfaction in being crazy and watching someone

break. Nada would relentlessly belittle and scream at someone in an effort to

try to get him to strike her so she could call the cops (it was a game to her,

she won most of the time she was SO good at pushing buttons and she would not

stop.) PDex broke me, he took an independent woman and tore her mind apart. But

I will use PDex as an example here because I know a lot more about him than I do

nada... and PDex is WORSE than nada. PDex is clearly insane, he is delusional

and paranoid. He will FREAK OUT any time his version of " reality " is challenged

(even if he is berating himself, comforting him is nothing more than disagreeing

with him and that only confuses and frustrates him more.) PDex FREAKS OUT when

the reality of his abuses are discussed, he either goes literally insane (self

harm, throwing

things, breaking things, screaming, yelling, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) or he

dissociates. When he dissociates, he has this strange look on his face like he

is having a stroke or something and his eyes kind of wiggle side to side or

occasionally roll back in his head most of the way. It is very scary and it got

worse over time, it took longer and longer for him to " snap out of it " then he

would right his eyes and face and look at me like he was confused and why was I

acting scared/concerned. But this guy would grab his OWN throat and try to rip

it open with his bare hands whenever he was asked to face reality. It was less

painful to him to punish himself, to cause himself great pain, that to bare the

burdens of his own crimes against his family. So, he lives in denial (as does

most of his family) because he cannot tolerate the alternative - facing reality.

He even says that counseling hurts too much, he cannot deal with what he has

done but his denial and

delusions allow him to continue the abusive behavior, making him hate himself

more and continue the cycle of abuse. Then, when he says that he can take no

more blame (for his own actions, mind you) he begins to blame others (me mostly,

then our son, then whoever else is convenient.) No, I don't understand any of

this insanity but I have read some of the books and articles and I have

witnesses this insane person going even MORE insane due to his own acts, calling

himself a monster, and then blaming ME when he took me as far down as he could

take me. Nada is about 10% of PDex but even that makes me wonder what she put

her ex's through, I witnessed only the tip of the iceburg from her.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 10:07:05 AM