RE: 911:: More Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z's

[Guest guest]

I hear the same argument put forward from my co-workers on the midnight

shift; don't judge us until you have worked the shift, its impossible to stay

awake all of the time. I don't buy it.

I currently work afternoons (having put time in on mids) and constantly hear

the midnighters coming on shift and remarking to one another that they only

got 3 hours of sleep because they had things to do that day, or that they

stayed up too long in the morning and couldn't get to sleep because of their

" second wind " . Without exception, all of the midnight dispatchers in my agency

are there by choice. I feel that they should have a sleep pattern down and

discipline themselves to adhere to it. Even when I am forced to work over

onto mids (which is quite often), I manage to stay awake all night.

Front-line management is quite liberal in my center and allows for the

midnighters to watch movies, read books, work on crafts, study for college

courses, etc in an effort to keep them awake. Yet they still sleep, and cover

for

each other in the process. There is no way to say this is acceptable. We are

not making donuts here folks. If you want to get paid to sleep, take a job

in the automotive industry.

[Guest guest]

In my experience, it matters not how much sleep you get. To have to sit in a

chair and do absolutely nothing for any length of time will cause you to, at

the very least, zone out. I have been at this job for 13 years and it gets

harder every year to stay alert all night. (12 hour tours 7 to 7.)

Management has to be cognizant of the fact that we are fighting the natural

circadian rhythms and that we are not superhuman. Instead of using scare

tactics and spy cameras to observe such actions, they should look for ways to

help

us.

And above all else, you simply do not publicize your internal affairs. It

does nothing but weaken the appearance of your employees in the eyes of the

public. Sure it shows what a great job management is doing, but you're not

making it easier to do the job in the first place.

To put it bluntly, we have enough to contend between callers and field units

and don't need you to make it any harder.

Raffa

Supv. Dispatcher, FDNY

Borough of Brooklyn

www.FDNewYork.com

[Guest guest]

>I'd like to see anyone who complains about a dispatcher " dozing off " on

the midnight shift do it themselves. <

In the smaller agencies, where the workload is slow and the

night is long, it happens.

Just a " doze " and you're awake when the call comes in.

That doesn't make it right.

It does happen.

The key is finding a way to sleep during the day, and going

into work fairly rested.

We worked " swings " a week at a time, and it was really difficult

to get into any type of pattern. I finally worked out a system

that worked well for me when on the " mids " . Go home and go right to bed,

sleep until around noon. Then go back to bed after supper and

sleep until about an hour before going to work.

I actually like the midnights.

Weintraut

[Guest guest]

IF they only doze and do not fall completely asleep?!?!?!? You must be

joking. Power nap on your lunch and on your break, not while on duty. I am

shocked and embarrassed that this topic has generated this much debate.

[Guest guest]

While I totally agree about not getting paid to sleep, it would really help

in a small agency if during the wee hours in mid-week there was something

constructive we could do. Our midnighters have to do the days paperwork

involving accident reports, entering citations into the system, entering

warrants, and any other miscellaneous paperwork the department deems

necessary. It generally keeps you busy unless it's been a slow day on the

other shifts and the paperwork is light. If one is working mids

continually, I can see a sleep pattern evolving. But I do not know how

people can work revolving shifts and have their circadian rhythm and

sleeping patterns interrupted and still maintain a healthy lifestyle.

Lyn

" The mighty oak, yadda, yadda, yadda "

Re: 911:: More Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z's

> Front-line management is quite liberal in my center and allows for the

> midnighters to watch movies, read books, work on crafts, study for college

> courses, etc in an effort to keep them awake. Yet they still sleep, and

> cover for

> each other in the process. There is no way to say this is acceptable.

> We are

> not making donuts here folks. If you want to get paid to sleep, take a

> job

> in the automotive industry.

[Guest guest]

I read this and I actually paused. I understand how hard it is to do our job,

and would be the last one to pounce on people. However.....dispatchers are not

the only group of people that do shift work, or work nights. Working nights is

NOT easy, by any means.

But, consider what you just said.......would you want the ICU nurse taking care

of you or a loved one to " doze " just because it is night? How about the staff

working in the ER of a hospital? Should they also doze just because it is night?

How about military persons standing guard in a war zone? Is it okay for them to

doze during the night? How about that pilot flying the airliner that is zooming

over the land overnight? Is it okay if he falls asleep as he enters the space

over your city?

If you are not able to adapt to shift work, it would likely be something to

consider whether or not the job is right for you. Sleeping during the day is

hard...but it is not impossible. I can't get away from believing that this is

just another part of mature responsibility for what you can and cannot do. If I

am unable to perform the duties of the job, then I need to look for another job

or attempt to adapt to the point that I can perform those duties.

Just my .02 worth.

Freida

-------------- Original message --------------

>

> >I'd like to see anyone who complains about a dispatcher " dozing off " on the

midnight shift do it themselves. <

[Guest guest]

Yes!

Buckets of Yes!

A World of Yes!

I absolutely positively want my ICU and ER staff napping during the down

times!

Power naps are well known for being good for your attention span. And if a

power nap means I get someone more alert to help me in my time of need (like

when I call 9-1-1 at 0300), then: YES! Please close your eyes for a minute

if nothing is going on.

Guards are another matter... I've never been in the military, but I don't

think guard duty entails sitting in one spot while nothing happens for 8

hours or 16 hours (that's our job). I would guess you have a station you

report to at certain times, and an assigned area to guard that you patrol at

intervals... giving both your mind and body something to do, which is good

for keeping you awake. And I don't think the military has active personnel

in a warzone guard a particular area for 8 hours or 16 hours. I'm sure they

have a relief at certain intervals to prevent the on-duty watch from

becoming lax and losing focus.

As for the airline pilot: He has a co-pilot. He has auto-pilot. Both take

over for him as needed. And they have laws in place (that may or may not be

followed) that tell a pilot how many hours he can fly before he needs to

stop for down time. Over the road drivers have similar restrictions in

place, again whether or not they are adhered to is another matter.

" YES " is my answer. I want those people napping as conditions allow. As

long as they come awake instantly when needed.

If they don't wake up, that's another matter entirely.

I'm not talking about dispatchers sleeping soundly while working a phone or

dispatch position. I'm talking about a power nap as conditions allow -

closing your eyes and zoning out briefly, where you come wide awake

instantly when the phone rings or some one calls on the radio.

That's my 2 cents.

--Kev

Re: 911:: More Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z's

I read this and I actually paused. I understand how hard it is to do our

job, and would be the last one to pounce on people. However.....dispatchers

are not the only group of people that do shift work, or work nights. Working

nights is NOT easy, by any means.

But, consider what you just said.......would you want the ICU nurse taking

care of you or a loved one to " doze " just because it is night? How about the

staff working in the ER of a hospital? Should they also doze just because it

is night? How about military persons standing guard in a war zone? Is it

okay for them to doze during the night? How about that pilot flying the

airliner that is zooming over the land overnight? Is it okay if he falls

asleep as he enters the space over your city?

If you are not able to adapt to shift work, it would likely be something to

consider whether or not the job is right for you. Sleeping during the day is

hard...but it is not impossible. I can't get away from believing that this

is just another part of mature responsibility for what you can and cannot

do. If I am unable to perform the duties of the job, then I need to look for

another job or attempt to adapt to the point that I can perform those

duties.

Just my .02 worth.

Freida

[Guest guest]

Shocked, some may be....embarrased, never. Have you seen some of the stuff

we've talked about over the past few years?

How do you determine when a regular nap turns into a power nap? Do you have

to change shirts?

Lyn

Re: 911:: More Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z's

I am > shocked and embarrassed that this topic has generated this much

debate.

[Guest guest]

Rem sleep?

Re: 911:: More Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z's

Shocked, some may be....embarrased, never. Have you seen some of the stuff

we've talked about over the past few years?

How do you determine when a regular nap turns into a power nap? Do you have

to change shirts?

Lyn

[Guest guest]

I guess the problem I have with the power nap is, it can very easily become

that sound sleep if things are quiet. Then, when the phone rings, it is a

bit like the drunk who feels perfectly competent to drive, you think you

have the " sleepy " voice out and are totally alert....but you may not be. At

what point is the power nap over and you're into total sleep mode? To me,

either is too big of a risk. We have talked here about so many liability

factors, I can't imagine this wouldn't be a huge one...while Rome burned

Nero fiddled and while the public called, dispatch snoozed.

Freida

________________________________________________________

I'm not talking about dispatchers sleeping soundly while working a phone or

dispatch position. I'm talking about a power nap as conditions allow -

closing your eyes and zoning out briefly, where you come wide awake

instantly when the phone rings or some one calls on the radio.

That's my 2 cents.

--Kev

[Guest guest]

Sue Rusch wrote:

>I'd like to see anyone who complains about a dispatcher " dozing off " on

>the midnight shift do it themselves. Some people are so quick to judge

>never having been in the situation they're complaining about. Cameras

>in dispatch to catch nodding dispatchers -- that's just not nice!

>

>

>

Makes you wonder what we would see/hear if we put cameras in their

offices or squad cars.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/2005 7:47:41 AM Central Standard Time,

bacosta@... writes:

> Lunch HOUR, 15 min BREAKS... what are those?

>

I was thinking the same thing. LOL

[Guest guest]

> In my experience, it matters not how much sleep you get. To have to

sit in a

> chair and do absolutely nothing for any length of time will cause

you to, at

> the very least, zone out. I have been at this job for 13 years and

it gets

> harder every year to stay alert all night. (12 hour tours 7 to 7.)

>

> Management has to be cognizant of the fact that we are fighting the

natural

> circadian rhythms and that we are not superhuman. Instead of using

scare

> tactics and spy cameras to observe such actions, they should look

for ways to help

> us.

>

> And above all else, you simply do not publicize your internal

affairs. It

> does nothing but weaken the appearance of your employees in the

eyes of the

> public. Sure it shows what a great job management is doing, but

you're not

> making it easier to do the job in the first place.

>

> To put it bluntly, we have enough to contend between callers and

field units

> and don't need you to make it any harder.

>

>

>

> Raffa

> Supv. Dispatcher, FDNY

> Borough of Brooklyn

> www.FDNewYork.com

>

>

> AMEN BROTHER!!! Could not have said it any better !

[Guest guest]

> Yes!

> Buckets of Yes!

> A World of Yes!

> I absolutely positively want my ICU and ER staff napping during the

down

> times!

> Power naps are well known for being good for your attention span.

And if a

> power nap means I get someone more alert to help me in my time of

need (like

> when I call 9-1-1 at 0300), then: YES! Please close your eyes for

a minute

> if nothing is going on.

>

> Guards are another matter... I've never been in the military, but I

don't

> think guard duty entails sitting in one spot while nothing happens

for 8

> hours or 16 hours (that's our job). I would guess you have a

station you

> report to at certain times, and an assigned area to guard that you

patrol at

> intervals... giving both your mind and body something to do, which

is good

> for keeping you awake. And I don't think the military has active

personnel

> in a warzone guard a particular area for 8 hours or 16 hours. I'm

sure they

> have a relief at certain intervals to prevent the on-duty watch from

> becoming lax and losing focus.

>

> As for the airline pilot: He has a co-pilot. He has auto-pilot.

Both take

> over for him as needed. And they have laws in place (that may or

may not be

> followed) that tell a pilot how many hours he can fly before he

needs to

> stop for down time. Over the road drivers have similar restrictions

in

> place, again whether or not they are adhered to is another matter.

>

> " YES " is my answer. I want those people napping as conditions

allow. As

> long as they come awake instantly when needed.

>

> If they don't wake up, that's another matter entirely.

>

> I'm not talking about dispatchers sleeping soundly while working a

phone or

> dispatch position. I'm talking about a power nap as conditions

allow -

> closing your eyes and zoning out briefly, where you come wide awake

> instantly when the phone rings or some one calls on the radio.

>

> That's my 2 cents.

> --Kev

>

AMEN my brother !!!

My 2 cents

Kirt

[Guest guest]

we are given 30 min for lunch and one 15 min break additional mini break

after lunches are completed

[Guest guest]

Yes, until the time that you are not. Then what? You are paid to be awake,

stay awake.

[Guest guest]

>>Does others get breaks and lunch times? <<

Union contract gives us 1 half hour lunch break and 2 fifteen minute breaks per

8 hour shift...paid.

[Guest guest]

In Chicago we get an hour lunch and 30 minute break. Most days we work

through lunch.

(Chicago 9-1-1)

Re: 911:: More Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z's

Jumping in on the conversation here...I've been dispatching for almost 5

years and have NEVER had a lunch hour or any type of break. Does others get

breaks and lunch times?

Faith

Mingo WV 911

KCMAN68@... wrote:

[Guest guest]

Yes, in a world where I am given breaks . . . or to stretch it even

further, a LUNCH . . . I would gladly power nap then. Our agency

offers neither. And I have never missed even the sound of a pin drop

in my dispatch career due to my 'resting'. I know how important it is

to be awake when I need to be, and the second that phone rings, I am

instantly alert.

> IF they only doze and do not fall completely asleep?!?!?!? You

must be

> joking. Power nap on your lunch and on your break, not while on

duty. I am

> shocked and embarrassed that this topic has generated this much

debate.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Faith Leonard wrote:

>Jumping in on the conversation here...I've been dispatching for almost 5 years

and have NEVER had a lunch hour or any type of break. Does others get breaks

and lunch times?

>

>Faith

>Mingo WV 911

>

>

We are supposed to get a 10 minute break every 2 hours. In that 10

minutes, you run and have a quick smoke (if you do), run to the bathroom

and fix your lunch if you are hungry. We eat at our consoles and can

have drinks at the consoles in comm center approved cups ( must be spill

proof).

If it is extremely busy and we are at minimum staffing (large part of

the time) we may not get breaks. Tuesday afternoon - evening was a prime

example. We had 1 or our dispatch channels (we have 3) on emergency

traffic for 5 hours. That kicked up the load on the other channels.

Thankfully the supervisor (who was busy doing supervisor stuff in a

major incident) would watch our channel long enough for us to run across

the hall for a quick bathroom break.

Just gotta roll with the punches sometimes ... No matter what, I still

love my job and wish I had changed careers earlier in life.

Mike

--

miked911@...

Mike Derryberry

Dispatcher II

Kern County Sheriff's Department

Bakersfield, CA

Listen to my department:

http://war.str3am.com:7300/

Listen to Kern County Scanning:

http://war.str3am.com:7460/

[Guest guest]

Acosta, wrote:

>Lunch HOUR, 15 min BREAKS... what are those?

>

>

>

>

>

That's what I was thinking.

We have a contracted break time. In my 28 years I've never been able to

take one.

[Guest guest]

>>

>>Management has to be cognizant of the fact that we are fighting the

>>

>>

>natural

>

>

>>circadian rhythms and that we are not superhuman. Instead of using

>>

>>

>scare

>

>

>>tactics and spy cameras to observe such actions, they should look

>>

>>

>for ways to help

>

>

>>us.

>>

>> Raffa

>>Supv. Dispatcher, FDNY

>>Borough of Brooklyn

>>www.FDNewYork.com

>>

>>

>>AMEN BROTHER!!! Could not have said it any better !

>>

>>

>

>They do it because it's all they know how to do. So many have never done our

job, nor want to. Some are " forced " to supervise civilians and don't like it,

would rather be doing something else; and are not afraid to let us know it.

Management is THEE issue.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

MAUREEN

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS

DO YOU HAVE SMALL CHILDREN ?????????

---------------------------------

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Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.

[Guest guest]

I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE...

LUNCH BREAK....15 MINUTE BREAK

IN LITTLE AGENCIES YOU DON'T GET SUCH A THING

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Husman wrote:

>MAUREEN

>

>

>ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS

>

>DO YOU HAVE SMALL CHILDREN ?????????

>

>

>

>

>

>,

>

No , and those who do should NOT work mids. It is not conducive to

family life. Also our agency has 30 people on four shifts. Each shift

is 12 hours, two days on and two days off. Those of us on our mids

shift choose to be there so it is our duty to stay awake and alert for

the whole shift. This means changing the way our life is lived. We

sleep during the day and are up all night, on or off duty. It is just

the way it is. Heaven forbid I ever have to call 911 and the person

that answers sounds half asleep, I will be the first one to report that

person for putting my family in danger because they didn't care enough

to stay awake.

We have had two firings for falling asleep on duty, one on days and

one on mids. I have worked in many different arenas and it didn't

matter what shift or if it was a 9 to 5, sleeping was not allowed.

period. I am a grandmother with many health problems including sleep

apnea and alpha wave intrusion, if I can stay awake and alert so can a

perfectly healthy person.

Maureen

>

>

>

>

>

>

>