Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Actually, I was attempting to use humor and make a joke about it, but it didn't come across that way, I guess. I'm sorry. On the other hand, I have used sarcasm in the past to penetrate my nada's warped little brain, and it worked!! She finally understood that I did not appreciate her bringing up subjects that I find painful and have asked her repeatedly to please not bring up. When she ignored me and kept bringing the subjects up anyway, I used sarcasm. My nada really, really hates being the butt of a joke; she hates being made fun of. So if I want her to get the point that I'm serious (and if I want her to give me the silent treatment) I use sarcasm. And as far as I know, if both parties understand that they are being recorded, its legal. That's why using that line I came up with in my previous post would guarantee that my nada would *not* continue an abusive tirade: she wouldn't want it to be recorded! -Annie > > > > Hmmm... > > How about: > > " Oh mom, you're so *cute* when you attack me for no reason... you really do have > > that " Wicked Witch of the West " thing down perfectly! " > > or > > " Wait while I get my tape recorder, mom, this is too good to pass up... Ok... > > can you start again at the beginning...? " > > > Done that too. BTW, you can check to see if taping is legal in your state here: > > http://www.rcfp.org/taping/ > > BTW, if it is legal, it doesn't mean it's legal for harassment purposes, and most states do allow it for defending yourself and protecting yourself, in the strict legal sense, and not the world-consuming borderline sense of " everything is about me anyway " sense. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I might say something like " I feel like that's a belittling, undermining statement. I don't appreciate statements like that. Goodbye *click*. " (on the phone) If you're together with her in person, I'd say the same thing and then add that I have to go. Then I'd get up and leave. If she threatens you, I might say " I don't appreciate being threatened. That is unacceptable. If you threaten me, I will not be able to see you in person. " Then, again, get up and leave. My nada once went on a raging attack against me in which she shook me violently. I was actually a married adult. I wrote her an e-mail afterward in which I threatened to call the police on her if she ever physically attacked me again. It hasn't happened since, but I now live thousands of miles away from her. In short, I would state what it is that bothers you about her words using " I " statements ( " I feel ____ when ___ " ) and then follow it up with an action or the threat of an action that you can safely take. qwerty > > > you just reply " I'm sorry you feel that way nada " and > > then say nothing. or change the subject. or leave the room. > She won't accept that with me. If I do that, she will hurt me or someone I care about and then say the same thing, or else will keep trying to provoke and threaten me until I do something to stop it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Wouldn't make much difference. Nadas have an excuse for everything. Any nada caught on tape murdering puppies while shouting at a 2 year old and joining the KKK all at once will have excuses and weepy explanations galore such that any jury would exonerate her. Except, of course, a jury of KOs . qwerty > > BTW, if it is legal, it doesn't mean it's legal for harassment purposes, and most states do allow it for defending yourself and protecting yourself, in the strict legal sense, and not the world-consuming borderline sense of " everything is about me anyway " sense. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (!!??) That was so illogical it defies analysis. Who knows what passes for " thought " in their warped, diseased little brains? I've given up even trying to figure out how they think, because the thoughts of the insane are un-figure-out-able. -Annie > > I know how you feel. On my nadas 80th birthday, my oldest brother ( the > Perfect One) his wife, me and my husband went there ( it's 425 miles from > where we live, so it's not like a drop by) to " celebrate " it...brother and I > took nada and fada out to nada favorite lunch restaurant...brother and I > split nada and fadas bill, then paid for our own ..brother thought it > easiest to just put the full bill on his CC and we'd divvy up later, but > hubby had already figured our share, and I wrote brother a check in the > restaurant and handed it to him....nada and fada saw this...and I said that > was our part plus our 1/2 or your part of the bill..and they walked > out...after we got into the car, nada turned and looked at me straight in > the eye ( hubby and I were in the 3rd seat, nada & fada in the second seat > and brother and SIL in front seat) and said " thanks for lunch....KEN !!! " > well, my names not Ken...and Ken never once volunteered that hubby and I > paid half...Ken just said you're welcome mom....I should have said > something, but I was just so shocked by that...she KNEW we paid half...I > really dont know why anything she does would ever shock me any more... > > Jackie ( just when you think you've seen it all) > > > > > No thanks from her at all. she still keeps praising my sister for it, > > though she wasn't 50 miles from the place when everything happened. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 OK, maybe I spoke too soon. My nada DID say A LOT " I'm so glad my kids aren't ugly " Though she never said I was pretty. > In this spirit, have any of your nadas ever complimented you sincerely and consistently for an accomplishment that made you feel good about yourself, and built you up? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Annie - My mom is a hoarder (her apartment looks like the ones on that new cable TV show, " Hoarders " - another fine mess she's trying to get me into!) and she's hit me up for money repeatedly over the years. I guess that makes it much easier to equate her with the crazy panhandlers - while calling me names and telling me what's wrong with me, she's badgering me for money and she's surrounded by useless junk. She has everything but the shopping cart...(and that's probably in her shed out back). I know that the life-long brainwashing has to be overcome - I'm fighting that battle every day, every time I have to " re-wind " the tape recorded script in my head and switch it out for the one that says I'm a valuable human being with a purpose on this earth. For somebody who's unaware of the nature of BPD and still stuck in the FOG, it's a bewildering and insurmountable obstacle. Lucky for us, we all know Nada's game, and we're all walking along the path away from that steady diet of manipulation and denigration. We may be at different points on that road, but we're moving. - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - UNDERMINING. My mom has tried to undermine my relationship with my > > > > husband, undermine my self-esteem, undermine my financial stability - by > > > > picking, picking, picking away. > > > > > > > > > what is a tactful way to stop this, a tactful type of retort-anyone have any suggestions? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 - I think what you wrote (below) should be engraved on a plaque as the " KO's Manifesto " - even if we're not there yet, the sense of self-confidence you describe is certainly the goal. - > > > > > > > > > > > > lol! i'm sorry i wasn't clear. i meant that when she starts in on > > belittling > > > you or picking at you, you just reply " I'm sorry you feel that way nada " > > and > > > then say nothing. or change the subject. or leave the room. does that > > make > > > more sense? > > > > Yeah, I have been on groups like this before, with bpd's or dysfunctional > > people waiting to pounce, and couldn't figure out your response! Thanks! > > > > She won't accept that with me. If I do that, she will hurt me or someone I > > care about and then say the same thing, or else will keep trying to provoke > > and threaten me until I do something to stop it. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I even got into an argument with her about who hurts more, the person being abused or the abuser. She insists the abuser does, which I think is a load. ****************** Well that's just downright scary! Carry that to the logical conclusion (Hitler hurting more than all those who were tortured, killed, orphaned during his awful rule) and that spells C-R-A-Z-Y. Yes, those who abuse others obviously have inner turmoil. News flash: EVERYONE has inner turmoil. But abusers always have a CHOICE; that's not true for those who are abused. If an abuser says they have no choice ... that is most definitely certifiably legally insane - like Hitler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I think this is a very important point. I too can't believe that anyone makes it out of childhood without *some* kind of traumatic event or person happening to them, at least once. EVERYBODY hurts, as the song goes. But people with personality disorders seem to use that as an excuse to manipulate, use, control, and/or destroy other people and appear to target their own spouses and children in particular. They feel entitled, justified, and safe in doing so. To me, that's like saying that because I have migraine headaches that hurt me really, really badly, that gives me the right to whack you upside your head with a two-by-four because you happen to be in the room with me at the time and it makes me feel better to see that you are now suffering as much as I am. That only makes sense in some bizarro alternate universe that I don't want to live in. I think that pd individuals *ought to be held more accountable for their behaviors*, I guess. I suppose I'm tired of the " Oh, the poor pd person, how awful for them " line of thinking. Well hell, they're *causing* more pain and suffering that they themselves are experiencing, sez I. I simply do not feel compassion for bullies. Sorry, I just don't. And a lot of personality disordered people (the Cluster Bs) are bullies. There is nothing more vile and despicable imho than adult bully parents who pick on their helpless children and inflict emotional, physical, and/or sexual abuses on them in the privacy of their own homes. Its inexcusable. I don't *care* if the parent has a personality disorder, I don't *care* if they themselves were beaten and abused and are in constant emotional or physical pain, that still does NOT excuse or justify (or even explain) abusive behavior toward their own children! It just doesn't! The only true explanation (in my opinion, which is pretty radical right now) is that pd brains are just so badly wired or effed up organically that they *ought to* be classified as " legally insane " and be under perpetual medical observation as a danger to themselves and to their children in particular. -Annie > > I even got into an argument with her about who hurts more, the person being abused or the abuser. She insists the abuser does, which I think is a load. > > > ****************** > Well that's just downright scary! Carry that to the logical conclusion (Hitler hurting more than all those who were tortured, killed, orphaned during his awful rule) and that spells C-R-A-Z-Y. Yes, those who abuse others obviously have inner turmoil. News flash: EVERYONE has inner turmoil. But abusers always have a CHOICE; that's not true for those who are abused. If an abuser says they have no choice ... that is most definitely certifiably legally insane - like Hitler. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Annie, as always I love your righteous anger. Even though I'm not a gospel church member I always want to say Sing it sister, and AMEN! " The only true explanation (in my opinion, which is pretty radical right now) is that pd brains are just so badly wired or effed up organically that they *ought to* be classified as " legally insane " and be under perpetual medical observation as a danger to themselves and to their children in particular. " I wish. I think our society just has a hard time in general understanding an individual's experience unless it is really obvious spelled out in big block letters of simple words. Basically our society is psychologically stupid. Overall it is now considered universally bad if a child is beaten by their parents. Sexual abuse now has legitimacy. But emotional abuse...notsamuch. Emotional has no marks, isn't sensational, is very subjective and very deniable. And that's where the higher functioning PD's excel. The kids don't have a chance to even explain or understand the emotional abuse that's happening often...how do they get help? Unless there is a witness who is willing to stand up to the scary PD person? A person who scares other *adults*. > > > > I even got into an argument with her about who hurts more, the person being abused or the abuser. She insists the abuser does, which I think is a load. > > > > > > ****************** > > Well that's just downright scary! Carry that to the logical conclusion (Hitler hurting more than all those who were tortured, killed, orphaned during his awful rule) and that spells C-R-A-Z-Y. Yes, those who abuse others obviously have inner turmoil. News flash: EVERYONE has inner turmoil. But abusers always have a CHOICE; that's not true for those who are abused. If an abuser says they have no choice ... that is most definitely certifiably legally insane - like Hitler. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I also received compliments from nada that were totally out of character while I was on the phone with her. Her voice tone changed and she had her happy voice going. When I called nada after one of her gushing phone calls, nada revealed during the conversation that so and so had been in her home when we last talked on the phone. Bingo. She was going into Pefect Mother Mode while another person was in the room. Duh, finally made sense to me. Blessings, mg My nada complimented me recently on the phone about something positive I'd done that she'd heard about from family friends. She went on about it for a while, and then proceeded to " remind " me about how she had always encouraged me in this area when I was young (not true). This was clearly another case of " look how wonderful I am because you did something right, I'm such a great mom and I live vicariously through you. " Bleh. This is exactly why I don't tell her about my achievements, or errors, for that matter. qwerty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I insisted that brother and I have an 80th birthday party for nada. I drove for five hours to brother's home. I stayed nearby (not at brother's home) to save my sanity. When I came to brother's home, nada immediately went to take a nap until time to go to the restuarant. When I asked SIL if I should take my presents to the restaurant, she stated " we didn't get nada anything, we are paying for the dinner " and she shrugged. The dinner was low keyed and nada opened my presents. Nada made sure the staff knew it was her 80th birthday, so they could fuss over her. After returning home, all phone calls from me were rebuffed. 1) She hung up when I called 2) She quit calling me. Period. 3) I sent small presents to her for close to nine months before I was back in her graces. What I taught nada from this event: if nada is nasty and cuts me off, I have to send her presents to get back into her graces. A big mistake on my part. I am LC now and send cards and gifts on appropriate occasions. Mother's Day, Birthday, Christmas. The gifts are modest and cards are cheerful. May we all heal, blessings, mg > > I know how you feel. On my nadas 80th birthday, my oldest brother ( the > Perfect One) his wife, me and my husband went there ( it's 425 miles from > where we live, so it's not like a drop by) to " celebrate " it...brother and I > took nada and fada out to nada favorite lunch restaurant...brother and I > split nada and fadas bill, then paid for our own ..brother thought it > easiest to just put the full bill on his CC and we'd divvy up later, but > hubby had already figured our share, and I wrote brother a check in the > restaurant and handed it to him....nada and fada saw this...and I said that > was our part plus our 1/2 or your part of the bill..and they walked > out...after we got into the car, nada turned and looked at me straight in > the eye ( hubby and I were in the 3rd seat, nada & fada in the second seat > and brother and SIL in front seat) and said " thanks for lunch....KEN !!! " > well, my names not Ken...and Ken never once volunteered that hubby and I > paid half...Ken just said you're welcome mom....I should have said > something, but I was just so shocked by that...she KNEW we paid half...I > really dont know why anything she does would ever shock me any more... > > Jackie ( just when you think you've seen it all) > > > > > No thanks from her at all. she still keeps praising my sister for it, > > though she wasn't 50 miles from the place when everything happened. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 AMEN, TOO! I struggled with the question of whether PD's are " responsible " or aware of their actions given that they are CRAZY. My conclusion is that they definitely know exactly what they are doing, saying, feeling, but because their worldview is so distorted they feel justified, or as if they HAVE TO. Or when they are projecting their actions and feelings onto others, they believe that,too. It is their right, their need to employ whatever means they must to make themselves feel better - and they do! Their belief in the their own disreality is profound, and it's what makes them so convincing to the rest of the world. If that's not pathological, nothing is. And I think that judgement/assessment of the illness (in the psychiatric/psychological field) is greatly understated, because focus is on the " patient " and not the damage inflicted by them. I wonder if it would be classified differently both medically and legally if it were more understood by those in the position to make those assessments. The problem with emotional abuse (when not accompanied by it's physical companion) is it's very insidious nature - as so many here have alluded to. As said well, a child experiencing it at first is too young to understand or explain and if they do begin to, they are either terrified to go to anyone, know they would never be able to get someone to understand, or just plain have noone to go to. They likely become more and more withdrawn, or act out, then the spotlight gets turned on them and their behaviors, and they get punished for them even more by the outside world, while the PD parent stands by - pointing a finger, saying, " See! " I seriously wonder if we should approach Randy and find out if we, the victims of PD's can in any way have input into the redefining process?? Suzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Its like, they *are* insane but in a completely different way that is currently defined by the psychiatric and legal community. I like Suzy's take on it: " Their belief in their own disreality is profound, and it's what makes them so convincing to the rest of the world. If that's not pathological, nothing is. " So, yes, I agree that both the psychiatric/medical community and the legal community need to be persuaded that: *emotional abuse of children is equally as bad as physical abuse and sexual abuse, and *personality-disordered people need to be reclassified into a more severe and dangerous category of mental illness *because of the damage they inflict on their children* -Annie > > yes, they DO know what they're doing My nada never ever treats anyone > outside the family badly...she's sickening sweet to others...she only treats > her kids and husband poorly. Plus, she does not treat the perfect one > badly ( my oldest brother) and she treats me the worst, so yes, she's > capable of controlling herself, otherwise everyone would get equal > treatment. > > Jackie > > > > AMEN, TOO! > > I struggled with the question of whether PD's are " responsible " or aware of > their actions given that they are CRAZY. My conclusion is that they > definitely know exactly what they are doing, saying, feeling, but because > their worldview is so distorted they feel justified, or as if they HAVE TO. > Or when they are projecting their actions and feelings onto others, they > believe that,too. It is their right, their need to employ whatever means > they must to make themselves feel better - and they do! Their belief in the > their own disreality is profound, and it's what makes them so convincing to > the rest of the world. If that's not pathological, nothing is. > > And I think that judgement/assessment of the illness (in the > psychiatric/psychological field) is greatly understated, because focus is on > the " patient " and not the damage inflicted by them. I wonder if it would be > classified differently both medically and legally if it were more understood > by those in the position to make those assessments. > > The problem with emotional abuse (when not accompanied by it's physical > companion) is it's very insidious nature - as so many here have alluded to. > As said well, a child experiencing it at first is too young to > understand or explain and if they do begin to, they are either terrified to > go to anyone, know they would never be able to get someone to understand, or > just plain have noone to go to. They likely become more and more withdrawn, > or act out, then the spotlight gets turned on them and their behaviors, and > they get punished for them even more by the outside world, while the PD > parent stands by - pointing a finger, saying, " See! " > > I seriously wonder if we should approach Randy and find out if we, the > victims of PD's can in any way have input into the redefining process?? > > Suzy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Suzy - that's a very interesting question. My mom knows she has been diagnosed with mental/emotional illness, but as far as she's concerned it's depression and bipolar - and she classifies both these conditions as " poor, pitiful me " illnesses - in other words, she sees herself as the " type " of mentally ill person who is to be pitied and cared for, because she's only a victim. The hoarding, the manipulation, the entire set of BPD behaviors - she doesn't see those in herself, because that would be something 'bad' she's doing to other people. She can only see herself as the victim of mental illness, never as the perpetrator of behaviors (DUE to her mental illness) that would make her anything but a sainted, suffering waif. I don't mean to trivialize depression or bipolar - not at all. These are serious conditions that need to be taken seriously. My point is this: Does she recognize that she's mentally ill? - Yes, sort of. Is her recognition/realization of her condition (or cluster of conditions) clear and complete? - Nope, not even close. > > AMEN, TOO! > > I struggled with the question of whether PD's are " responsible " or aware of their actions given that they are CRAZY. My conclusion is that they definitely know exactly what they are doing, saying, feeling, but because their worldview is so distorted they feel justified, or as if they HAVE TO. Or when they are projecting their actions and feelings onto others, they believe that,too. It is their right, their need to employ whatever means they must to make themselves feel better - and they do! Their belief in the their own disreality is profound, and it's what makes them so convincing to the rest of the world. If that's not pathological, nothing is. > > And I think that judgement/assessment of the illness (in the psychiatric/psychological field) is greatly understated, because focus is on the " patient " and not the damage inflicted by them. I wonder if it would be classified differently both medically and legally if it were more understood by those in the position to make those assessments. > > The problem with emotional abuse (when not accompanied by it's physical companion) is it's very insidious nature - as so many here have alluded to. As said well, a child experiencing it at first is too young to understand or explain and if they do begin to, they are either terrified to go to anyone, know they would never be able to get someone to understand, or just plain have noone to go to. They likely become more and more withdrawn, or act out, then the spotlight gets turned on them and their behaviors, and they get punished for them even more by the outside world, while the PD parent stands by - pointing a finger, saying, " See! " > > I seriously wonder if we should approach Randy and find out if we, the victims of PD's can in any way have input into the redefining process?? > > Suzy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Suzy - Thinking about the last paragraph in your post (below) - I don't know if KO's can do much to influence the treatment of BPD, but I think it should be very clear to mental health professionals that BPD causes ripples within the family - so when BPD is suspected, the pro's need to get involved in reaching out to the spouses, parents, kids, anybody who's in a position to be abused or manipulated, and at least let them know that BPD exists, that they (the family) aren't crazy, and that there are ways of dealing with - if not curing - the BP. Wouldn't that have made a HUGE difference to us when we were kids? And wouldn't it make a huge difference even now, when we have family members still in the FOG, if a real, live doctor would tell them the things we've been trying to tell them? - > > AMEN, TOO! > > I struggled with the question of whether PD's are " responsible " or aware of their actions given that they are CRAZY. My conclusion is that they definitely know exactly what they are doing, saying, feeling, but because their worldview is so distorted they feel justified, or as if they HAVE TO. Or when they are projecting their actions and feelings onto others, they believe that,too. It is their right, their need to employ whatever means they must to make themselves feel better - and they do! Their belief in the their own disreality is profound, and it's what makes them so convincing to the rest of the world. If that's not pathological, nothing is. > > And I think that judgement/assessment of the illness (in the psychiatric/psychological field) is greatly understated, because focus is on the " patient " and not the damage inflicted by them. I wonder if it would be classified differently both medically and legally if it were more understood by those in the position to make those assessments. > > The problem with emotional abuse (when not accompanied by it's physical companion) is it's very insidious nature - as so many here have alluded to. As said well, a child experiencing it at first is too young to understand or explain and if they do begin to, they are either terrified to go to anyone, know they would never be able to get someone to understand, or just plain have noone to go to. They likely become more and more withdrawn, or act out, then the spotlight gets turned on them and their behaviors, and they get punished for them even more by the outside world, while the PD parent stands by - pointing a finger, saying, " See! " > > I seriously wonder if we should approach Randy and find out if we, the victims of PD's can in any way have input into the redefining process?? > > Suzy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I don't think that any child or teen should be placed in the position of having to " manage " a mentally ill parent. The child is in a totally powerless position. In an earlier post I created the ridiculous example of daddy leaving for work in the morning and saying to his little 4-year-old child, " I'm leaving for work now, honey. Remember what the therapist told us: if mommy tells you that you're bad and stupid, just remind her that she's acting out and projecting her negative thoughts on you and you don't believe it, OK? Oh, and don't let mommy shake you so hard that she dislocates your shoulder again, it hasn't healed up yet from the last time. Remind mommy, OK, sweetheart? Daddy loves you! 'Bye! " No, I think the only thing that would have helped Sister and me would have been removal from nada's care. The psychological abuse was a lot worse than the physical abuse, in our case. -Annie > > > > AMEN, TOO! > > > > I struggled with the question of whether PD's are " responsible " or aware of their actions given that they are CRAZY. My conclusion is that they definitely know exactly what they are doing, saying, feeling, but because their worldview is so distorted they feel justified, or as if they HAVE TO. Or when they are projecting their actions and feelings onto others, they believe that,too. It is their right, their need to employ whatever means they must to make themselves feel better - and they do! Their belief in the their own disreality is profound, and it's what makes them so convincing to the rest of the world. If that's not pathological, nothing is. > > > > And I think that judgement/assessment of the illness (in the psychiatric/psychological field) is greatly understated, because focus is on the " patient " and not the damage inflicted by them. I wonder if it would be classified differently both medically and legally if it were more understood by those in the position to make those assessments. > > > > The problem with emotional abuse (when not accompanied by it's physical companion) is it's very insidious nature - as so many here have alluded to. As said well, a child experiencing it at first is too young to understand or explain and if they do begin to, they are either terrified to go to anyone, know they would never be able to get someone to understand, or just plain have noone to go to. They likely become more and more withdrawn, or act out, then the spotlight gets turned on them and their behaviors, and they get punished for them even more by the outside world, while the PD parent stands by - pointing a finger, saying, " See! " > > > > I seriously wonder if we should approach Randy and find out if we, the victims of PD's can in any way have input into the redefining process?? > > > > Suzy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Annie, I'm not suggesting that kids be put in charge of managing their parents. I'm saying it would have been helpful to know that the things Nadas tell us about ourselves are coming from their illness - so we don't have to believe we are evil/lazy/worthless/ugly just because Nada tells us so. Certainly that doesn't help a 4 year old, but older kids and teenagers can understand that Mom is ill, so her pronouncements should be evaluated accordingly. What would also help is having a father who realizes his wife is mentally ill, and not just " difficult " - and who has been told by professionals that he has to grow a spine and stand up for his kids. The realization that your partner/parent of your children is far more disturbed that you knew means that you make very different choices about child care, leaving the kids alone with their mom, or custody arrangements during a divorce. Not every Nada is over-the-top abusive, and not every family is going to call DFCS to get the kids removed. So it would be a good idea to include the " family dynamic " in the picture when BPD is diagnosed. - > > > > > > AMEN, TOO! > > > > > > I struggled with the question of whether PD's are " responsible " or aware of their actions given that they are CRAZY. My conclusion is that they definitely know exactly what they are doing, saying, feeling, but because their worldview is so distorted they feel justified, or as if they HAVE TO. Or when they are projecting their actions and feelings onto others, they believe that,too. It is their right, their need to employ whatever means they must to make themselves feel better - and they do! Their belief in the their own disreality is profound, and it's what makes them so convincing to the rest of the world. If that's not pathological, nothing is. > > > > > > And I think that judgement/assessment of the illness (in the psychiatric/psychological field) is greatly understated, because focus is on the " patient " and not the damage inflicted by them. I wonder if it would be classified differently both medically and legally if it were more understood by those in the position to make those assessments. > > > > > > The problem with emotional abuse (when not accompanied by it's physical companion) is it's very insidious nature - as so many here have alluded to. As said well, a child experiencing it at first is too young to understand or explain and if they do begin to, they are either terrified to go to anyone, know they would never be able to get someone to understand, or just plain have noone to go to. They likely become more and more withdrawn, or act out, then the spotlight gets turned on them and their behaviors, and they get punished for them even more by the outside world, while the PD parent stands by - pointing a finger, saying, " See! " > > > > > > I seriously wonder if we should approach Randy and find out if we, the victims of PD's can in any way have input into the redefining process?? > > > > > > Suzy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 And guess what? Ted Bundy could control himself most of the time too. He didn't kill every person he met. He made sure he was alone with someone first... > > yes, they DO know what they're doing My nada never ever treats anyone > outside the family badly...she's sickening sweet to others...she only treats > her kids and husband poorly. Plus, she does not treat the perfect one > badly ( my oldest brother) and she treats me the worst, so yes, she's > capable of controlling herself, otherwise everyone would get equal > treatment. > > Jackie > > > > AMEN, TOO! > > I struggled with the question of whether PD's are " responsible " or aware of > their actions given that they are CRAZY. My conclusion is that they > definitely know exactly what they are doing, saying, feeling, but because > their worldview is so distorted they feel justified, or as if they HAVE TO. > Or when they are projecting their actions and feelings onto others, they > believe that,too. It is their right, their need to employ whatever means > they must to make themselves feel better - and they do! Their belief in the > their own disreality is profound, and it's what makes them so convincing to > the rest of the world. If that's not pathological, nothing is. > > And I think that judgement/assessment of the illness (in the > psychiatric/psychological field) is greatly understated, because focus is on > the " patient " and not the damage inflicted by them. I wonder if it would be > classified differently both medically and legally if it were more understood > by those in the position to make those assessments. > > The problem with emotional abuse (when not accompanied by it's physical > companion) is it's very insidious nature - as so many here have alluded to. > As said well, a child experiencing it at first is too young to > understand or explain and if they do begin to, they are either terrified to > go to anyone, know they would never be able to get someone to understand, or > just plain have noone to go to. They likely become more and more withdrawn, > or act out, then the spotlight gets turned on them and their behaviors, and > they get punished for them even more by the outside world, while the PD > parent stands by - pointing a finger, saying, " See! " > > I seriously wonder if we should approach Randy and find out if we, the > victims of PD's can in any way have input into the redefining process?? > > Suzy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 my point is that just because you can control yourself some of the time, does not mean you aren't crazy > > > > > > > > And guess what? Ted Bundy could control himself most of the time too. He > > didn't kill every person he met. He made sure he was alone with someone first... > > > Ah, bu he was the product of incest, and was raised in an extremely abusive home. H really did do most of his damage after he found out his sister WAS his sister, but also his mother. > > His Dad/Grandfather (same time!) also helped introduce him to confusing love with assault, and violent pornography, which he prolly associated with his grandfather and with women. given his low self-esteem, although I am not okaying what he did, his family circumstances did have something to do with his outcome. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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