Re: Silly me -- thought I was feeling better

[Guest guest]

Thoughts that come to mind....

How are you taking the Armour: sublingual or swallowing, full stomach or empty?

Are you taking the Armour in one dose or more? are you taking it the same time everyday?

Did you have a fever when you had the flu?

What kind of thermometer are you using?

What medications did you take for the flu?

Did your eating patterns or meal choices changed when you had the flu?

When you have an illness, like the flu, that causes your body to increase temperature, it puts a lot of stress on a weak thyroid and/or adrenals, so it can throw things off. If your digestion is off (diarrhea or not wanting to eat regularly) it can change how you are absorbing meds (if you are swallowing the armour), vitamins and supplements and REALLY mess up your conversion. Things like alka selzer and other over the counter things that folks take for flu and colds affects thyroid hormone too.

Now for some math....

A grain of armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3

T3 is four times as potent as T4

So at three grains of armour you are getting [(38 x 3) + ((9 x 4) x 3)] 222 mcg of T4

Before you were taking T4 plus a grain of armour [137 + 38 + (9 x 4)] for a total 211 mcg of T4.

BUT there is still a difference in how T4 and T3 are used. T3 is 95% used up in four hours. So if you are single dosing.. that could be the difference.

Also, one other fly in the ointment. If your adrenals were pooped and the Nutri-meds got them in better shape... your body is utilizing more of the thyroid hormone now, than it did before which means that it can handle more hormone, which means you need to take more than before.

Increased activity, increased metabolic rate all these things increase the bodies needs for hormone... that could also account for an increase... or if you are single dosing.. it may mean the for now, at least, multidosing will even out the T3 in your system.. giving you more consistent levels.

Remember, if you are dosing sublingually you are getting nearly 100 % of the dose, if you are swallowing you could be getting as little as 50 % of the dose.

You want your waking temps to be at least 98.0 (using a mercury thermometer, under the tongue - the most accurate way to measure) Armpit is generally 1 degree lower. Digital fever thermometers are NOT accurate enough, they are designed to test for INCREASED temp, not track less than normal temps.

All kinds of variables to consider.. I'll wait to hear from you.... We'll get this figured out...

Topper ()

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:15:33 -0000 "Debbie" writes:

A few weeks ago, I posted on how much better I was feeling. Well, Ishould have known not to do that since it never lasts for me! Anyway,a few different things have been going on and am wondering if anyonehas any ideas. I'll try to be short!Originally, I was on .137 T4 + 1 grain armour. About 2 months ago, Istarted phasing out the T4 and increasing the armour. Felt a definiteimprovement in mental and physical symptoms. Also, have been takingnutri-meds adrenals for about 3 months which has helped too. Over the last 3-4 weeks, I've felt a gradual worsening in symptoms,not horrible, but noticable -- which I attributed to the drop in myoverall dose which had the T4 in it. About 10 days ago, I raised to 3 grains and plan to stay here for awhile. About the same time, I got a slight touch of the flu. Iincreased my adrenals for 4 days to help with the illness and thearmour increase. Went back to my regular adrenal dose on Sun. The last 3 nights, I haven't been sleeping well and last night had amajor hot flash and was awake at 2. Also felt very weak and a littledizzy in the morning yesterday. My oral temps have been all over the board since I raised to 3 grains-- 96.2 - 97.1 (97.5 1x). There's no pattern at all, but they'redefinetely lower than they have been for the last 2 months (when theywere usually 97.2 or higher). Also, sometimes my oral and myunderarm temp have been almost the same -- they also used to be abouta degree different. Does all this point to anything? Did I take too many adrenals and amfeeling the effect of that? Did the flu just throw everything off? Ihave no idea what to make of the temps, but the lower #s do go alongwith my increasing hypo symptoms. Thanks for any ideas.Debbie

[Guest guest]

Our need for thyroid hormoneds increases in the winter too....

Re: Silly me -- thought I was feeling better

Thoughts that come to mind....

How are you taking the Armour: sublingual or swallowing, full stomach or empty?

Are you taking the Armour in one dose or more? are you taking it the same time everyday?

Did you have a fever when you had the flu?

What kind of thermometer are you using?

What medications did you take for the flu?

Did your eating patterns or meal choices changed when you had the flu?

When you have an illness, like the flu, that causes your body to increase temperature, it puts a lot of stress on a weak thyroid and/or adrenals, so it can throw things off. If your digestion is off (diarrhea or not wanting to eat regularly) it can change how you are absorbing meds (if you are swallowing the armour), vitamins and supplements and REALLY mess up your conversion. Things like alka selzer and other over the counter things that folks take for flu and colds affects thyroid hormone too.

Now for some math....

A grain of armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3

T3 is four times as potent as T4

So at three grains of armour you are getting [(38 x 3) + ((9 x 4) x 3)] 222 mcg of T4

Before you were taking T4 plus a grain of armour [137 + 38 + (9 x 4)] for a total 211 mcg of T4.

BUT there is still a difference in how T4 and T3 are used. T3 is 95% used up in four hours. So if you are single dosing.. that could be the difference.

Also, one other fly in the ointment. If your adrenals were pooped and the Nutri-meds got them in better shape... your body is utilizing more of the thyroid hormone now, than it did before which means that it can handle more hormone, which means you need to take more than before.

Increased activity, increased metabolic rate all these things increase the bodies needs for hormone... that could also account for an increase... or if you are single dosing.. it may mean the for now, at least, multidosing will even out the T3 in your system.. giving you more consistent levels.

Remember, if you are dosing sublingually you are getting nearly 100 % of the dose, if you are swallowing you could be getting as little as 50 % of the dose.

You want your waking temps to be at least 98.0 (using a mercury thermometer, under the tongue - the most accurate way to measure) Armpit is generally 1 degree lower. Digital fever thermometers are NOT accurate enough, they are designed to test for INCREASED temp, not track less than normal temps.

All kinds of variables to consider.. I'll wait to hear from you.... We'll get this figured out...

Topper ()

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:15:33 -0000 "Debbie" writes:

A few weeks ago, I posted on how much better I was feeling. Well, Ishould have known not to do that since it never lasts for me! Anyway,a few different things have been going on and am wondering if anyonehas any ideas. I'll try to be short!Originally, I was on .137 T4 + 1 grain armour. About 2 months ago, Istarted phasing out the T4 and increasing the armour. Felt a definiteimprovement in mental and physical symptoms. Also, have been takingnutri-meds adrenals for about 3 months which has helped too. Over the last 3-4 weeks, I've felt a gradual worsening in symptoms,not horrible, but noticable -- which I attributed to the drop in myoverall dose which had the T4 in it. About 10 days ago, I raised to 3 grains and plan to stay here for awhile. About the same time, I got a slight touch of the flu. Iincreased my adrenals for 4 days to help with the illness and thearmour increase. Went back to my regular adrenal dose on Sun. The last 3 nights, I haven't been sleeping well and last night had amajor hot flash and was awake at 2. Also felt very weak and a littledizzy in the morning yesterday. My oral temps have been all over the board since I raised to 3 grains-- 96.2 - 97.1 (97.5 1x). There's no pattern at all, but they'redefinetely lower than they have been for the last 2 months (when theywere usually 97.2 or higher). Also, sometimes my oral and myunderarm temp have been almost the same -- they also used to be abouta degree different. Does all this point to anything? Did I take too many adrenals and amfeeling the effect of that? Did the flu just throw everything off? Ihave no idea what to make of the temps, but the lower #s do go alongwith my increasing hypo symptoms. Thanks for any ideas.Debbie

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper -

I've been taking the armour sublingually for about 3 months now. And

have always split my dose - 1/2 in am and the other 1/2 around 3:00.

So those variables haven't changed recently.

The flu wasn't real bad. I never threw up, but just felt quesey for

over a week and more tired than normal (and no, I can't be pregnant

which is what everyone here is asking me! My kids had it -- altho

they threw up, slept for a day and were then back to normal. My

husband's also had it, and it's going on over a week for him too. I

guess us old folks just can't handle it like the young ones!!)

So, back to your questions -- I didn't take any meds for it, but I

didn't really eat very good with the quesey stomach. I also didn't

sleep much for a few nights because I was up with the kids throwing

up. That's why I inceased the adrenals for a few days -- I figured

with all the illness, plus the recent increase in armour, probably put

stress on my adrenals.

I never did have a fever. I'm using a basal digital thermometer (the

only one I could find that wasn't a simple fever one), but it's the

same one I've been using.

Before the armour increase and the flu, my temps were generally 97.4

and higher. Afterwards, they dropped to 96.8, then 97.1, then 96.2,

then up, then down. Very wierd, but never as high as before.

I figured when I felt good a month ago, it was probably due to the

lingering T4 in my system giving me a total higher dose. So I was

anticipating some hypo symptoms returning before I could get the

armour back up there. (But thinking it and feeling it are two

different things!!)

I think I'll eventually end up at a higher armour dose, but plan on

sitting here at 3 for a while to let the T4 catch up.

Anyway, I had the hot flashes and not sleeping good when my cortisol

tested both high and low on different occasions. The last time, when

they were low, is when I started on the nutri-meds. And I could

really tell they made a difference.

So I'm not sure if now I've got too much in my system (perhaps my own

adrenals are healing and working better) or maybe I don't have enough

(if the illness and the armour increase put more stress on them.)

I know I need to sit tight and let the armour increase play out and my

body recover from the flu before making any big changes -- but I may

have to change the adrenal part some. I've went back to my regular

adrenal dose for about 5 days now. I'll see how tonight goes.

Anything make any sense here? Thanks, as always, Topper, for your

help and caring.

Debbie

> Thoughts that come to mind....

>

> How are you taking the Armour: sublingual or swallowing, full stomach or

> empty?

>

> Are you taking the Armour in one dose or more? are you taking it the

same

> time everyday?

>

> Did you have a fever when you had the flu?

>

> What kind of thermometer are you using?

>

> What medications did you take for the flu?

>

> Did your eating patterns or meal choices changed when you had the flu?

>

> When you have an illness, like the flu, that causes your body to

increase

> temperature, it puts a lot of stress on a weak thyroid and/or adrenals,

> so it can throw things off. If your digestion is off (diarrhea or not

> wanting to eat regularly) it can change how you are absorbing meds (if

> you are swallowing the armour), vitamins and supplements and REALLY mess

> up your conversion. Things like alka selzer and other over the counter

> things that folks take for flu and colds affects thyroid hormone too.

>

> Now for some math....

>

> A grain of armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3

> T3 is four times as potent as T4

>

> So at three grains of armour you are getting [(38 x 3) + ((9 x 4) x 3)]

> 222 mcg of T4

>

> Before you were taking T4 plus a grain of armour [137 + 38 + (9 x

4)] for

> a total 211 mcg of T4.

>

> BUT there is still a difference in how T4 and T3 are used. T3 is 95%

used

> up in four hours. So if you are single dosing.. that could be the

> difference.

>

> Also, one other fly in the ointment. If your adrenals were pooped

and the

> Nutri-meds got them in better shape... your body is utilizing more

of the

> thyroid hormone now, than it did before which means that it can handle

> more hormone, which means you need to take more than before.

>

> Increased activity, increased metabolic rate all these things increase

> the bodies needs for hormone... that could also account for an

> increase... or if you are single dosing.. it may mean the for now, at

> least, multidosing will even out the T3 in your system.. giving you more

> consistent levels.

>

> Remember, if you are dosing sublingually you are getting nearly 100 % of

> the dose, if you are swallowing you could be getting as little as 50

% of

> the dose.

>

> You want your waking temps to be at least 98.0 (using a mercury

> thermometer, under the tongue - the most accurate way to measure) Armpit

> is generally 1 degree lower. Digital fever thermometers are NOT accurate

> enough, they are designed to test for INCREASED temp, not track less

than

> normal temps.

>

> All kinds of variables to consider.. I'll wait to hear from you....

We'll

> get this figured out...

>

> Topper ()

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, you're making sense... and I'm proud of you for understanding that you have to give your body time....

I'm wondering... the Nutri-Meds adrenal.... are you taking that sublingually too, and when.... I find it best to take it first thing in the morning.. when the adrenals have their biggest regular job and then let them function normally the rest of the time....

Tell me about how you are taking it now....

Topper ()

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:58 -0000 "Debbie" writes:

Hi Topper - I've been taking the armour sublingually for about 3 months now. Andhave always split my dose - 1/2 in am and the other 1/2 around 3:00. So those variables haven't changed recently.The flu wasn't real bad. I never threw up, but just felt queasy forover a week and more tired than normal (and no, I can't be pregnantwhich is what everyone here is asking me! My kids had it -- althothey threw up, slept for a day and were then back to normal. Myhusband's also had it, and it's going on over a week for him too. Iguess us old folks just can't handle it like the young ones!!)So, back to your questions -- I didn't take any meds for it, but Ididn't really eat very good with the quesey stomach. I also didn'tsleep much for a few nights because I was up with the kids throwingup. That's why I inceased the adrenals for a few days -- I figuredwith all the illness, plus the recent increase in armour, probably putstress on my adrenals. I never did have a fever. I'm using a basal digital thermometer (theonly one I could find that wasn't a simple fever one), but it's thesame one I've been using. Before the armour increase and the flu, my temps were generally 97.4and higher. Afterwards, they dropped to 96.8, then 97.1, then 96.2,then up, then down. Very wierd, but never as high as before. I figured when I felt good a month ago, it was probably due to thelingering T4 in my system giving me a total higher dose. So I wasanticipating some hypo symptoms returning before I could get thearmour back up there. (But thinking it and feeling it are twodifferent things!!)I think I'll eventually end up at a higher armour dose, but plan onsitting here at 3 for a while to let the T4 catch up. Anyway, I had the hot flashes and not sleeping good when my cortisoltested both high and low on different occasions. The last time, whenthey were low, is when I started on the nutri-meds. And I couldreally tell they made a difference. So I'm not sure if now I've got too much in my system (perhaps my ownadrenals are healing and working better) or maybe I don't have enough(if the illness and the armour increase put more stress on them.)I know I need to sit tight and let the armour increase play out and mybody recover from the flu before making any big changes -- but I mayhave to change the adrenal part some. I've went back to my regularadrenal dose for about 5 days now. I'll see how tonight goes.Anything make any sense here? Thanks, as always, Topper, for yourhelp and caring.Debbie

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm *finally* starting to get it that my body actually needs to

heal. It helps so much feeling that I'm at least on the right path.

Before I didn't have a clue what I was doing and I attributed

everything to thyroid and didn't know anything about adrenals or iron.

It has helped so much having these groups to read and learn from

everyone's experiences.

The Nutri-meds adrenal -- I tried to take it sublingually, but always

gagged when I did. I just couldn't stand the taste so I have been

just swallowing it.

I worked myself up to 3 and this is where I've been for a few months.

I take one when I first get up, then another around 8:30 when I take

my my armour, and a 3rd at noon. I've learned that if I take one any

later than this, I don't sleep well.

Once, I increased to 4 for a while when I had a cold, but I think I

stayed at 4 for too long because I started having some problems with

sleep. When I backed down to 3, I felt much better.

I did have a better night last night and I feel much more " normal "

today. The hypo symptoms are still here, but I can deal with them

better knowing I'll be able to raise soon if I need to. It was the

hot flashes and poor sleeping that really freaked me out. It's been

quite a while since I felt that way (since I started the adrenals) and

I really don't want to go back to that.

I know I need to stay here at 3 grains for a few more weeks. I

probably should sit tight and heal completely from the flu before

making any drastic changes with the adrenals, I guess. Since I feel

much more alert today, I'm thinking part of my problem was just the

illness still in my body.

It's amazing how much more optomistic you feel when you've had a

better night's sleep!!

Since you've been taking the adrenals a while, how do you know when

it's time to drop back on them? I've read that the adrenals should

eventually heal themselves and hopefully I wouldn't have to take the

supplements forever. But I wonder what signs there are that it's time

to decrease?

Debbie

> Yes, you're making sense... and I'm proud of you for understanding that

> you have to give your body time....

>

> I'm wondering... the Nutri-Meds adrenal.... are you taking that

> sublingually too, and when.... I find it best to take it first thing in

> the morning.. when the adrenals have their biggest regular job and then

> let them function normally the rest of the time....

>

> Tell me about how you are taking it now....

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:58 -0000 " Debbie " <sdlentz2@y...> writes:

>

> Hi Topper -

>

> I've been taking the armour sublingually for about 3 months now. And

> have always split my dose - 1/2 in am and the other 1/2 around 3:00.

> So those variables haven't changed recently.

>

> The flu wasn't real bad. I never threw up, but just felt queasy for

> over a week and more tired than normal (and no, I can't be pregnant

> which is what everyone here is asking me! My kids had it -- altho

> they threw up, slept for a day and were then back to normal. My

> husband's also had it, and it's going on over a week for him too. I

> guess us old folks just can't handle it like the young ones!!)

>

> So, back to your questions -- I didn't take any meds for it, but I

> didn't really eat very good with the quesey stomach. I also didn't

> sleep much for a few nights because I was up with the kids throwing

> up. That's why I inceased the adrenals for a few days -- I figured

> with all the illness, plus the recent increase in armour, probably put

> stress on my adrenals.

>

> I never did have a fever. I'm using a basal digital thermometer (the

> only one I could find that wasn't a simple fever one), but it's the

> same one I've been using.

>

> Before the armour increase and the flu, my temps were generally 97.4

> and higher. Afterwards, they dropped to 96.8, then 97.1, then 96.2,

> then up, then down. Very wierd, but never as high as before.

>

> I figured when I felt good a month ago, it was probably due to the

> lingering T4 in my system giving me a total higher dose. So I was

> anticipating some hypo symptoms returning before I could get the

> armour back up there. (But thinking it and feeling it are two

> different things!!)

>

> I think I'll eventually end up at a higher armour dose, but plan on

> sitting here at 3 for a while to let the T4 catch up.

>

> Anyway, I had the hot flashes and not sleeping good when my cortisol

> tested both high and low on different occasions. The last time, when

> they were low, is when I started on the nutri-meds. And I could

> really tell they made a difference.

>

> So I'm not sure if now I've got too much in my system (perhaps my own

> adrenals are healing and working better) or maybe I don't have enough

> (if the illness and the armour increase put more stress on them.)

>

> I know I need to sit tight and let the armour increase play out and my

> body recover from the flu before making any big changes -- but I may

> have to change the adrenal part some. I've went back to my regular

> adrenal dose for about 5 days now. I'll see how tonight goes.

>

> Anything make any sense here? Thanks, as always, Topper, for your

> help and caring.

>

> Debbie

[Guest guest]

I am hearing a lot of discussion about adrenals on this site. How do you know if you need adrenal? I have sleep apnea, so I have no problem falling asleep, I just stop breathing 40-50 times an hour and don't get enough oxygen to my blood and brain unless I sleep with a CPAP machine every night. While I am still really tired, I don't feel the need to fall asleep all through the day since I have been sleeping with the machine. What exactly does the adrenal do?

Jeannie

Re: Silly me -- thought I was feeling better

Well, I'm *finally* starting to get it that my body actually needs toheal. It helps so much feeling that I'm at least on the right path. Before I didn't have a clue what I was doing and I attributedeverything to thyroid and didn't know anything about adrenals or iron.It has helped so much having these groups to read and learn fromeveryone's experiences. The Nutri-meds adrenal -- I tried to take it sublingually, but alwaysgagged when I did. I just couldn't stand the taste so I have beenjust swallowing it. I worked myself up to 3 and this is where I've been for a few months.I take one when I first get up, then another around 8:30 when I takemy my armour, and a 3rd at noon. I've learned that if I take one anylater than this, I don't sleep well.Once, I increased to 4 for a while when I had a cold, but I think Istayed at 4 for too long because I started having some problems withsleep. When I backed down to 3, I felt much better.I did have a better night last night and I feel much more "normal"today. The hypo symptoms are still here, but I can deal with thembetter knowing I'll be able to raise soon if I need to. It was thehot flashes and poor sleeping that really freaked me out. It's beenquite a while since I felt that way (since I started the adrenals) andI really don't want to go back to that.I know I need to stay here at 3 grains for a few more weeks. Iprobably should sit tight and heal completely from the flu beforemaking any drastic changes with the adrenals, I guess. Since I feelmuch more alert today, I'm thinking part of my problem was just theillness still in my body.It's amazing how much more optomistic you feel when you've had abetter night's sleep!!Since you've been taking the adrenals a while, how do you know whenit's time to drop back on them? I've read that the adrenals shouldeventually heal themselves and hopefully I wouldn't have to take thesupplements forever. But I wonder what signs there are that it's timeto decrease?Debbie> Yes, you're making sense... and I'm proud of you for understanding that> you have to give your body time....> > I'm wondering... the Nutri-Meds adrenal.... are you taking that> sublingually too, and when.... I find it best to take it first thing in> the morning.. when the adrenals have their biggest regular job and then> let them function normally the rest of the time....> > Tell me about how you are taking it now....> > Topper ()> > On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:58 -0000 "Debbie" <sdlentz2@y...> writes:> > Hi Topper - > > I've been taking the armour sublingually for about 3 months now. And> have always split my dose - 1/2 in am and the other 1/2 around 3:00. > So those variables haven't changed recently.> > The flu wasn't real bad. I never threw up, but just felt queasy for> over a week and more tired than normal (and no, I can't be pregnant> which is what everyone here is asking me! My kids had it -- altho> they threw up, slept for a day and were then back to normal. My> husband's also had it, and it's going on over a week for him too. I> guess us old folks just can't handle it like the young ones!!)> > So, back to your questions -- I didn't take any meds for it, but I> didn't really eat very good with the quesey stomach. I also didn't> sleep much for a few nights because I was up with the kids throwing> up. That's why I inceased the adrenals for a few days -- I figured> with all the illness, plus the recent increase in armour, probably put> stress on my adrenals. > > I never did have a fever. I'm using a basal digital thermometer (the> only one I could find that wasn't a simple fever one), but it's the> same one I've been using. > > Before the armour increase and the flu, my temps were generally 97.4> and higher. Afterwards, they dropped to 96.8, then 97.1, then 96.2,> then up, then down. Very wierd, but never as high as before. > > I figured when I felt good a month ago, it was probably due to the> lingering T4 in my system giving me a total higher dose. So I was> anticipating some hypo symptoms returning before I could get the> armour back up there. (But thinking it and feeling it are two> different things!!)> > I think I'll eventually end up at a higher armour dose, but plan on> sitting here at 3 for a while to let the T4 catch up. > > Anyway, I had the hot flashes and not sleeping good when my cortisol> tested both high and low on different occasions. The last time, when> they were low, is when I started on the nutri-meds. And I could> really tell they made a difference. > > So I'm not sure if now I've got too much in my system (perhaps my own> adrenals are healing and working better) or maybe I don't have enough> (if the illness and the armour increase put more stress on them.)> > I know I need to sit tight and let the armour increase play out and my> body recover from the flu before making any big changes -- but I may> have to change the adrenal part some. I've went back to my regular> adrenal dose for about 5 days now. I'll see how tonight goes.> > Anything make any sense here? Thanks, as always, Topper, for your> help and caring.> > Debbie