Re: Preschool IEP questions

June 6, 2001

Stefanie -

If Ben is in the severe range, I am sure that most would agree that a

personal FM system would be beneficial. I would encourage you to get one

written into the IEP and for you to be able to take it home! As we

discussed in an earlier thread, much learning comes from " incidental

listening " or overhearing (See work by carol Flexer). This alone is enough

reason to justify home use of a school-owned personal FM system.

Good luck!

Trish

Preschool IEP questions

> My son Ben will turn 3 at the end of August; we are working with the

> school system right now to develop his IEP so that he's ready to

> start school in September. There is an oral program for speech

> delayed and HI children in my town, which has an excellent

> reputation, which he will be attending, so I do feel he's in a good

> place. However, I have two issues I'd love feedback on.

>

> First of all, an FM system: I know the school will provide a personal

> FM system for Ben, if I want one. But they do have a soundfield FM in

> the classroom, there are only 5 kids in the class, and they have

> one-on-one speech therapy. So is a personal FM system even necessary

> at this point? They have also made it clear that they do not want us

> taking the FM home, if they DO order it, saying there is just not an

> educational need for that at the preschool level. Is there a way to

> make a case for taking it home, when he's not at an age to receive

> homework?

>

> Secondly, I do have social/emotional skill learning in his IEP, but

> I'm not sure how to expand on this. For example, they say they will

> work on this in classroom activities, getting him to " form

> friendships in the new educational setting, follow classroom routines

> readily, respond to requests for...participation from all staff. "

> While this is important, I want to make sure he can also interact

> appropriately with hearing peers. My goal is to mainstream him at

> some point in the future, and I want him to be able to communicate

> with and be comfortable in the hearing world. But he IS only 3.

> Should I focus on the social goals within the HI classroom this year,

> then work on ways to expand out to hearing peers later?

>

> Ok, that's long enough, sorry! But any input would be appreciated...

>

> TIA,

> Stefanie

> mom to Ben, 2 3/4, severe HOH, Phonak Novo Fortes

>

> All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post

is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

copyright restrictions.

>

June 6, 2001

In a message dated 6/5/01 10:02:34 PM Central Daylight Time,

scaruso3@... writes:

> So is a personal FM system even necessary

> at this point? They have also made it clear that they do not want us

> taking the FM home, if they DO order it, saying there is just not an

> educational need for that at the preschool level. Is there a way to

> make a case for taking it home, when he's not at an age to receive

> homework?

>

First of all there should always be an educational need at the preschool

level. It is in the early years (0 - 5) that we develop our most basic

language skills. It becomes more difficult to do so after that. So whatever

can help him to develop the most language now is what he needs. And as far as

homework goes, do you plan on reinforcing what Ben learns at school while

he's with you at home? If the answer is yes, then that could be called

homework. What type of hearing loss does Ben have? My daughter had a profound

loss in one ear, severe-profound in the other. The personal FM system was

definitely a huge help. The school provided it and yes we were able to take

it home. If the IEP team feels that it will be beneficial to his education

(remember you are part of that team), then they can write it into the IEP for

you to take it home. What makes it beneficial in the preschool level (that is

when we had it for ) to take it home is that Ben will spend more time

with you and the rest of his family than he will at school. All the language

that can be amplified into his ears will increase the rate at which his own

speech will develop. The personal FM systems very often have a switch on them

which allows you to set it so that he hears background noise and what comes

through the microphone at the same time. This way he can hear mom or dad's

voice more clearly and not miss the other stuff going on in the room. When

was able to use it at school and at home, we all saw a huge

improvement.

Should I focus on the social goals within the HI classroom this year,

then work on ways to expand out to hearing peers later?

If there are only hearing impaired children in his classroom, maybe you can

find another avenue to get him involved with hearing children: a playgroup,

Sunday school, kids gym, etc.

Suzette

June 6, 2001

In a message dated 6/6/01 7:32:20 AM Central Daylight Time,

dehahn@... writes:

> I don't see how hearing one side of an incidental conversation better than

> another helps at home. In the classroom, a controlled, quiet environment,

> sure, but this is at home. Unless your home is like a classroom. I can

> certainly understand the convenience of using the FM to get your child's

> attention, but that isn't helping with their listening skills.

>

> Chris

>

You'll see by my previous post concerning this subject how I disagree with

your statement. You can have an FM system that can be turned on to microphone

and background at the same time. Having it on as much as possible

helped her to increase her language skills one full school year during one

school year. Her teacher said that this was very good, she usually gets 8

months of improvement in speech and language from hearing children.

kept right up with them with severe-profound hearing loss. I attribute a lot

of it to the fact that we had the FM and used it at home and when we went to

church and the store, etc.

Suzette

June 6, 2001

At 11:02 PM 6/5/01 -0400, you wrote:

>My son Ben will turn 3 at the end of August; we are working with the

>school system right now to develop his IEP so that he's ready to

>start school in September. There is an oral program for speech

>delayed and HI children in my town, which has an excellent

>reputation, which he will be attending, so I do feel he's in a good

>place. However, I have two issues I'd love feedback on.

>

>First of all, an FM system: I know the school will provide a personal

>FM system for Ben, if I want one. But they do have a soundfield FM in

>the classroom, there are only 5 kids in the class, and they have

>one-on-one speech therapy. So is a personal FM system even necessary

>at this point? They have also made it clear that they do not want us

>taking the FM home, if they DO order it, saying there is just not an

>educational need for that at the preschool level. Is there a way to

>make a case for taking it home, when he's not at an age to receive

>homework?

I don't think any kid with aids should be on a soundfield alone in the

classroom. They help, but nothing replaces the direct input from the

teacher through the FM. There's also mounting evidence that CI kids can

benefit from an FM, and the manufacturers are working towards an interface

standard that will allow this to happen.

I'm sure Kay or Celeste can point you to what you'll need to make a case

for taking it home. We never had one at home for our kids, and they are

doing just fine.

>Secondly, I do have social/emotional skill learning in his IEP, but

>I'm not sure how to expand on this. For example, they say they will

>work on this in classroom activities, getting him to " form

>friendships in the new educational setting, follow classroom routines

>readily, respond to requests for...participation from all staff. "

>While this is important, I want to make sure he can also interact

>appropriately with hearing peers. My goal is to mainstream him at

>some point in the future, and I want him to be able to communicate

>with and be comfortable in the hearing world. But he IS only 3.

>Should I focus on the social goals within the HI classroom this year,

>then work on ways to expand out to hearing peers later?

Our kid's preschool was integrated, meaning hearing and deaf kids in the

same class, so this was taken care of there. Once they hit kindergarten,

though, it's deaf only. The school was pretty adamant about having these

kind of goals in their IEP's, and it was up to us as parents, outside of

school, to provide them. I'm curious to what others have done.

Chris

June 6, 2001

At 07:17 AM 6/6/01 -0400, you wrote:

>Stefanie -

>

>If Ben is in the severe range, I am sure that most would agree that a

>personal FM system would be beneficial. I would encourage you to get one

>written into the IEP and for you to be able to take it home! As we

>discussed in an earlier thread, much learning comes from " incidental

>listening " or overhearing (See work by carol Flexer). This alone is enough

>reason to justify home use of a school-owned personal FM system.

I don't see how hearing one side of an incidental conversation better than

another helps at home. In the classroom, a controlled, quiet environment,

sure, but this is at home. Unless your home is like a classroom. I can

certainly understand the convenience of using the FM to get your child's

attention, but that isn't helping with their listening skills.

Chris

June 6, 2001

>Unless your home is like a classroom. I can

> certainly understand the convenience of using the FM to get your child's

> attention, but that isn't helping with their listening skills.

>

It doesn't necessarily help with their listening skills. But it does give

them access to a whole lot of important information that they're not going

to get at school, e.g. appropriate social interactions between friends, at

the supermarket, bank, etc.. And having the FM turned on in the home or

outside in daily life DOES show the hoh child that those interactions are

important and worth paying attention to.

Daphne

June 6, 2001

I agree with Daphne. I never used the FM at home on a routine basis (just

in special circumstances) until I heard Carol Flexer speak. Boy, did she

ever make an impression on me! What she said regarding all the subtle

information that HI kids miss out on in terms made a lot of sense.

She has written a number of articles on this subject. Maybe Kay has a link?

Trish

RE: Preschool IEP questions

> >Unless your home is like a classroom. I can

> > certainly understand the convenience of using the FM to get your child's

> > attention, but that isn't helping with their listening skills.

> >

>

> It doesn't necessarily help with their listening skills. But it does give

> them access to a whole lot of important information that they're not going

> to get at school, e.g. appropriate social interactions between friends, at

> the supermarket, bank, etc.. And having the FM turned on in the home or

> outside in daily life DOES show the hoh child that those interactions are

> important and worth paying attention to.

>

> Daphne

>

> All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post

is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

copyright restrictions.

>

June 6, 2001

Stefanie asked:

> Should I focus on the social goals within the HI classroom this

> year, then work on ways to expand out to hearing peers later?

Depends on your child's needs, but I would work on any age appropriate social

skills, if I

felt my child needed them. Questions to ponder are: Will the child be playing

with hearing

peers after school? To what extent? Are his social skills now appropriate or

not? What

social problems do you notice at home? You don't have to answer these. I merely

give them

as examples to help you sort out what your child needs.

I do have a section on Social Skills on my website

http://www.listen-up.org/teach.htm#soc

but I would like to point out one thing in particular (because schools often say

that

social skills are not " educational " in nature and they don't need to teach

them). OSEP has

a document on Social Skills Instruction where they say that Social Skills do

fall into the

area of education:

http://www.ideapractices.org/docs/OSEPdocs/socialskills.htm

By the way, this document does not say that it's upon the parents to provide

these skills:

" Integrate social skills instruction into the school curriculum. Formal social

skills

instruction should be planned, focused, and scheduled within all teaching and

learning

activities. Informal social skills instruction takes advantage of naturally

occurring

opportunities to teach appropriate social behavior such as in the hallways or in

the

cafeteria. "

said:

> I'm sure Kay or Celeste can point you to what you'll need to make a case

> for taking it home. We never had one at home for our kids, and they are

> doing just fine.

I'm with in that JD never had one. The reasoning given to us about using

one at home

or in therapy was that life didn't have a perfect listening environment and in

order for

JD to learn to deal with life's situations, he had to develop strategies for

communication

in a less than perfect listening environment. I guess it just goes to show that,

as with

all other things that concern our children, there is no one way to do things and

that it's

a matter of finding what your child's needs are and then meeting those needs.

> saying there is just not an

> educational need for that at the preschool level

I intentionally answered the social skills question first, so I could use that

to answer

this. If you decide that your child needs an FM system at home, and if you have

supporting

social skills in the IEP, this may be your approach to getting the FM to come

home - it

would help you support the goals and objectives of his IEP. For further

discussion on

this, please see:

http://www.listen-up.org/rights/advocate.htm#5b

Trish asked:

> She has written a number of articles on this subject.

> Maybe Kay has a link?

Kind of. All of Carol's articles have been published and she no longer owns the

copy right

to them (I have corresponded with her on this topic). I do have a PRIVATE page

with quotes

of hers from one of her books (which she has given me permission to put on my

website, but

tells me some of the info has been updated in a newer version of the book. Since

I haven't

seen the newer version, I don't know which info has been updated and will wait

to put the

page on the website till I have the current info.

http://lonestar.texas.net/~listenup/peptic/flexer.htm

Hugs,

Kay

June 6, 2001

At 12:21 PM 6/6/01 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 6/6/01 7:32:20 AM Central Daylight Time,

>dehahn@... writes:

>

> > I don't see how hearing one side of an incidental conversation better than

> > another helps at home. In the classroom, a controlled, quiet environment,

> > sure, but this is at home. Unless your home is like a classroom. I can

> > certainly understand the convenience of using the FM to get your child's

> > attention, but that isn't helping with their listening skills.

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

>You'll see by my previous post concerning this subject how I disagree with

>your statement. You can have an FM system that can be turned on to microphone

>and background at the same time.

I'm fully aware of this, having two oral deaf kids that have benefited from

FM's for a very long time. The worn mike takes precedence, or else why use

the FM at all? Kay's point was the point I was trying to make. It all

depends on what priorities you have for your children. This is a religious

issue so I'm going to drop out. Let's just say that we disagree.

Chris

>Having it on as much as possible

>helped her to increase her language skills one full school year during one

>school year. Her teacher said that this was very good, she usually gets 8

>months of improvement in speech and language from hearing children.

>kept right up with them with severe-profound hearing loss. I attribute a lot

>of it to the fact that we had the FM and used it at home and when we went to

>church and the store, etc.

>

>Suzette

>

June 6, 2001

Hi, Getting Ben involved with a group of kids who are similar is a great

idea. It will do much for his self esteem. My husband and I found out that

our son was HI at the age of 3. We allowed him speech therapy and got him

hearing aids but were pretty much in denial of his situation. When he

reached middle school we had to back track and get him involved with a deaf

and hearing impaired classroom. Both his self-esteem and grades improved

after that. He was still mainstreamed, but with the aid of sign interpreters

in the classrooms he did well. So you see, in my opinion, you are way

ahead of me in your thinking. FM systems, as far as I know, connect you to

one person only. If Ben is in a small group, do you want this for him at

age 3? My opinion is socialization is more important at this point in his

life. They wouldn't let us use the FM system at home either. This system

is very expensive and at home you want your son to be able to interact with

the whole family anyway. Unless FM systems have changed greatly over the

last 15 years, the contact is just one on one. Hope I helped some.