Re: What's BPDs' effect on your religous beliefs?

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I like the idea of a decorative pentagram or Green Man ....My beliefs

are paganistic I would guess; I am very nature based.

~patricia

Re: What's BPDs' effect on your

> > > religous beliefs?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something

> > > like

> > > > there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul

> > > is almost

> > > > completely black and I was going to hell.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Jackie

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me

> > > no

> > > > matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I

> > > never felt

> > > > normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo

> > > emotionally

> > > > screwed

> > > > up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I

> > > had major

> > > > problems. It saddens me.

> > > >

> > > > I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your

> > > mother

> > > > not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @

> > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> > > >

> > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-

> > > SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to ï

> > > ¿½Understanding the Borderline Mother� (Lawson) and ï

> > > ¿½Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you can find

> > > at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> > > >

> > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

> > > author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hey Jackie,

Yeah, I feel the same way. I was not brought up religious. I found

my way onto a spiritual path; though I've gotten into an anti-spiritual

sort of place. I am not happy about it, but maybe it will come back to me.

Maybe it is a way of myself maturing, not believing some *god* will fulfill

my wishes and wants and protect me. Because there is just too much hardship

in this world and I can't not look at it anymore.

I think I even gave up on *justice* because that is so contrived too. It does

happen for some, but not most. All we can do is keep trying for it, I guess.

~patricia

Re: What's BPDs' effect on your religous beliefs?

HI ..I guess I've always been spiritual..I just dont agree with the

man made rules of organized religion ( why would God care if I wore a hat

to communion or not ?? an old Catholic rule) I try and be the best person I

can be and try to get along with others..I believe there is some sort of

" after life " , we will be together with those we loved and lost..I believe

in the 10 commandments and the golden rule..I do not think there is an

entity sitting on a throne looking down on us and judging us..because I

can't wrap my mind around why this entity wouldn't then help us...how could

anyone sit there and watch idly at all the injustices in the world..I do

believe we will be held accountable at the end for how we lived our

lives..I have to because I need to know there will be justice for us who

were abused..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Did anything change this for you? Meaning, did you find some other

spiritual meaning in your life? (you might have mentioned and I missed it)

Or did leaving the situation change things?

When I was a kid, I remember getting off the bus and for some reason

followed

kids to a neighbor's porch and she was doing this rap on being born again

and

did I want to be born again (so I didn't go to hell) and accept Jesus into

my heart?

I said: yes. I mean of course I didn't want to go to hell. But the whole

thing was

creepy and inappropriate (my parents didn't know she was doing this!).

I had a few things like this happen, not just in a Christian format.

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

I had a thought today. Many churches discuss how to reach out the the

" unchurched. " I think I fall under the category of " overchurched. " I thought

you might relate to that term.

patinage

>

> I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my entire

life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally had enough.

And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though. And yet, have

stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really gotten to me.

>

> I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I was

no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early childhood,

I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not finding a

supportive environment there through the hardships in my life...including

divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who could talk about and

deal with real life problems without judging.

>

> All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks to

make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you talking

to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've found some

religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and down right rude.

Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there lives as normal. I've

been condemned because my house was messy while I was working all day to do

therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I found to be absolutely

horrible.

>

> I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was raised

in.

>

> But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times

after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where she is

going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually making

comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh,

good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in need, I get

this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...me.

>

> I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

>

> My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and now

" meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth. Good

for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems from

others...really well. Leave me alone!

>

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry, so so sorry that you were sexually abused as a child by

people who are claiming to be religious.. That is just sick! My mother likes

to sing religious songs after she is verbally and slightly physically

abusive (I say slightly because she doesn't beat me, she just pulls my hair,

throws objects at me, and digs her nails into my skin, but according to her

this is not real abuse, just parental discipline.. -- it feels like a horror

movie. She also likes to call me up and tell me that I need to have a better

relationship with Jesus, go to church because she NEEDS me to be

compassionate toward her physical disabilities, and she needs me to pray for

her when she is having her mood swings, not antagonize her and fight.. I

finally realized today that I get so angry when she pushes god down my

throat the same way she gets angry when I push her going to see a

therapist.. I am learning about Buddhism because I do not agree with many of

the Christian doctrines and I do not believe in judging. I want to cultivate

my spirituality but I am tired of my mom telling me that the end times are

near, I have to get saved.. she sounds like a crack pot. Acting abusive

toward me and then feeding me the love of Jesus all in one day!

>

>

> I had a thought today. Many churches discuss how to reach out the the

> " unchurched. " I think I fall under the category of " overchurched. " I thought

> you might relate to that term.

>

> patinage

>

>

>

> >

> > I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my

> entire life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally had

> enough. And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though. And

> yet, have stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really

> gotten to me.

> >

> > I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I

> was no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early

> childhood, I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not

> finding a supportive environment there through the hardships in my

> life...including divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who

> could talk about and deal with real life problems without judging.

> >

> > All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks

> to make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you

> talking to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've

> found some religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and

> down right rude. Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there

> lives as normal. I've been condemned because my house was messy while I was

> working all day to do therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I

> found to be absolutely horrible.

> >

> > I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was

> raised in.

> >

> > But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

> blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

> reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

> impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7

> times after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where

> she is going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually

> making comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd

> say. Oh, good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are

> judgemental pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in

> need, I get this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the

> caregiver...me.

> >

> > I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

> >

> > My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and

> now " meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth.

> Good for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems

> from others...really well. Leave me alone!

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I was little, my mom was terrified of thunderstorms. She went into

these meltdown, crying, psychotic, almost catatonic fits. It was bizarre. They

always started with her making me sit in the dark closet with her, with

the door shut, and sing bible songs. Sometimes she would want to pray and

plead with God to release her from her phobia. It was traumatic and way over

the top. I was soooo little.

In a message dated 5/3/2010 11:44:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

klcubero@... writes:

I am so sorry, so so sorry that you were sexually abused as a child by

people who are claiming to be religious.. That is just sick! My mother

likes

to sing religious songs after she is verbally and slightly physically

abusive (I say slightly because she doesn't beat me, she just pulls my

hair,

throws objects at me, and digs her nails into my skin, but according to her

this is not real abuse, just parental discipline.. -- it feels like a

horror

movie. She also likes to call me up and tell me that I need to have a

better

relationship with Jesus, go to church because she NEEDS me to be

compassionate toward her physical disabilities, and she needs me to pray

for

her when she is having her mood swings, not antagonize her and fight.. I

finally realized today that I get so angry when she pushes god down my

throat the same way she gets angry when I push her going to see a

therapist.. I am learning about Buddhism because I do not agree with many

of

the Christian doctrines and I do not believe in judging. I want to

cultivate

my spirituality but I am tired of my mom telling me that the end times are

near, I have to get saved.. she sounds like a crack pot. Acting abusive

toward me and then feeding me the love of Jesus all in one day!

>

>

> I had a thought today. Many churches discuss how to reach out the the

> " unchurched. " I think I fall under the category of " overchurched. " I

thought

> you might relate to that term.

>

> patinage

>

>

>

> >

> > I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my

> entire life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally

had

> enough. And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though.

And

> yet, have stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really

> gotten to me.

> >

> > I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I

> was no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early

> childhood, I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not

> finding a supportive environment there through the hardships in my

> life...including divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who

> could talk about and deal with real life problems without judging.

> >

> > All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who

checks

> to make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears

you

> talking to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've

> found some religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and

> down right rude. Not accepting the true hardships that people have in

there

> lives as normal. I've been condemned because my house was messy while I

was

> working all day to do therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I

> found to be absolutely horrible.

> >

> > I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was

> raised in.

> >

> > But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the

church

> blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

> reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

> impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7

> times after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember

where

> she is going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop

continually

> making comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse "

he'd

> say. Oh, good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are

> judgemental pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are

in

> need, I get this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the

> caregiver...me.

> >

> > I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

> >

> > My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and

> now " meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my

mouth.

> Good for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their

problems

> from others...really well. Leave me alone!

> >

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

@.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE

GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the Borderline

Mother†(Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

[Guest guest]

LOL nada would say she doesnt need saving...she's done nothing wrong !!!

Jackie

I do something similar, when they say are you sure you are saved? I look

them in the eye and say " YES I am " with great certainty. This usually

confuses them momentarily. And I just assert I'm saved don't need to hear

them I've got stuff to do. Shut door...done! I like the ideas of putting

up something that would keep them from knocking altogether though. You

could try a decorative pentagram - I bet that would really do it. Or maybe

one of those cool ceramic Green Man masks on the door. Or...a " no

solicitors " sign.

[Guest guest]

Ha ha,Jackie,that sounds just like your nada.From your descriptions of her on

here,I can even imagine her saying that with a totally straight face!! Of course

she's WRONG...

Your post reminded me of some encounters I've had with people trying to

sell me on some religion--like making me wonder how much of what they're doing

is only their egos talking and has nothing (or very very little) to do with

genuine faith.It's that " I'm right and I know that I'm right mentality " and

they're just kind of using you to shore up their own egos.

I'm a bit naughty sometimes with people who come up to me asking if I've

heard the good news.I've had this happen in public places,though,not at home.I

*have* actually heard the good news,but not the way they think...Usually I just

say that and let it go,but if I'm in the mood for it,I will ask them in turn if

they have heard the good news of The Peacemaker and The Great Law of Peace.Which

I then have to explain since they assume I'm talking about Jesus.I am in fact

referring to Native religion (specifically Iroquois--I wrote a very truncated

simplistic version of The Peacemaker story on the board a while back)...and when

they don't want to listen or will not tolerate any spiritual " instruction " from

*my* Greatest Story Ever Told,I ask them:

Have you closed your mind and your heart? Is your faith a fearful thing

that rests on such shaky foundations that you turn away from even more Good

News? Are not all of the manifestations of the Creator on earth as great as your

faith?

When they tell me that somehow what they are telling me is in fact the

perfect and penultimate version of God,I remind them that this is the voice of

their ego speaking,not the voice of God.And when they don't like that,I ask them

if they are familiar with the Cathar's

lesson to humanity,if they want to continue to insist on Christianity as the

only valid religion.Ok.Then let's talk about the Cathars.

They never know what I'm talking about.What happened to the Cathars in

France during the late " Dark Ages " is a lesson to us all in humility and genuine

faith and sincere belief in Jesus' instruction that " I am the Way " ,a belief for

which they were slaughtered en masse--because they believed that following that

Way is a personal matter between one's own soul and God and should not and

cannot be forced upon others,nor should it have any place in worldly ambition or

conquest for the sake of political power.Perhaps that is why you have never

heard of them,I say--and I suggest they look it up.And then think for a while

about why the Cathars were massacred into extinction.And ask yourself who is it

you really need to be having a dialogue about God with: me...or yourself...

>

> LOL nada would say she doesnt need saving...she's done nothing wrong !!!

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I do something similar, when they say are you sure you are saved? I look

> them in the eye and say " YES I am " with great certainty. This usually

> confuses them momentarily. And I just assert I'm saved don't need to hear

> them I've got stuff to do. Shut door...done! I like the ideas of putting

> up something that would keep them from knocking altogether though. You

> could try a decorative pentagram - I bet that would really do it. Or maybe

> one of those cool ceramic Green Man masks on the door. Or...a " no

> solicitors " sign.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

of course she's wrong :-) But she was serious when she said she didn't need

saving !! One of my sisters joined a church ( the Navigators) and was

saved...so she tried to get nada to be saved...and nada would say that...and

a big argument would break out...I agree with you, some religions create

people who are very " uppity " about religion...and they think they are the

only ones going to reap the benefits of the afterlife.. but many of their

" ways " are derived from pagan rituals...but they wont believe that LOL

Jackie

Ha ha,Jackie,that sounds just like your nada.From your descriptions of her

on here,I can even imagine her saying that with a totally straight face!! Of

course she's WRONG...

Your post reminded me of some encounters I've had with people trying

to sell me on some religion--like making me wonder how much of what they're

doing is only their egos talking and has nothing (or very very little) to do

with genuine faith.It's that " I'm right and I know that I'm right mentality "

and they're just kind of using you to shore up their own egos.

I'm a bit naughty sometimes with people who come up to me asking if

I've heard the good news.I've had this happen in public places,though,not at

home.I *have* actually heard the good news,but not the way they

think...Usually I just say that and let it go,but if I'm in the mood for

it,I will ask them in turn if they have heard the good news of The

Peacemaker and The Great Law of Peace.Which I then have to explain since

they assume I'm talking about Jesus.I am in fact referring to Native

religion (specifically Iroquois--I wrote a very truncated simplistic version

of The Peacemaker story on the board a while back)...and when they don't

want to listen or will not tolerate any spiritual " instruction " from *my*

Greatest Story Ever Told,I ask them:

Have you closed your mind and your heart? Is your faith a fearful

thing that rests on such shaky foundations that you turn away from even more

Good News? Are not all of the manifestations of the Creator on earth as

great as your faith?

When they tell me that somehow what they are telling me is in fact

the perfect and penultimate version of God,I remind them that this is the

voice of their ego speaking,not the voice of God.And when they don't like

that,I ask them if they are familiar with the Cathar's

lesson to humanity,if they want to continue to insist on Christianity as the

only valid religion.Ok.Then let's talk about the Cathars.

They never know what I'm talking about.What happened to the Cathars

in France during the late " Dark Ages " is a lesson to us all in humility and

genuine faith and sincere belief in Jesus' instruction that " I am the Way " ,a

belief for which they were slaughtered en masse--because they believed that

following that Way is a personal matter between one's own soul and God and

should not and cannot be forced upon others,nor should it have any place in

worldly ambition or conquest for the sake of political power.Perhaps that is

why you have never heard of them,I say--and I suggest they look it up.And

then think for a while about why the Cathars were massacred into

extinction.And ask yourself who is it you really need to be having a

dialogue about God with: me...or yourself...