Re: What's BPDs' effect on your religous beliefs?

[Guest guest]

--- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " friend "

> But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times

after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where she is

going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually making

comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh,

good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in need, I get

this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...me.

Wow, that is stunning. So they are coming after you to try to make your mother

who has senile dementia go to church? That is a whole new level of

organizational group craziness. Is there any way to tell these people her

doctor (or some authority figure they might respect) has said she's no longer in

condition to do that and to leave you alone? Grrrr.

Your experience blows a hole in a little fantasy that I've had that if my mother

ever got involved in a church in her area that they might provide some

socialization and support that would make it easier on me one day. Sounds like

it doesn't necessarily work that way.

To me there's a world of difference between religion and spirituality. A person

can be part of a church and use it as a social group without actually

practicing/believing in the religion at all. Sometimes that can go in bad

directions. I've read articles about how regular church goers are healthier

long-term because they are more supported and connected in their community.

Still I guess it all depends on what that *particular* church community is all

about. Sorry you are going through all that - it is outrageous.

As for your title question...my nada was aggressively anti-religion. This led

to me becoming a spiritual child as a form of private rebellion and protest!

[Guest guest]

It is not so easy as just a quick prayer and all is well. Life throws

us complex problems, and lots of pain. We get angry, at nada, at

family, at church, even, yes, even at God. I happen to think He is big

enough to handle me being mad.

I understand your hurt. I ve been there. My dad was a preacher who had

an affair and left the church, and my family. Of course, my family was

me and nada, so he was leaving a crazy woman, but left me to cope. Talk

about some anger at the church!

Anyway, I can t answer all your anger and questions, but I can tell you

2 books that helped me come to terms with the problem of visualizing God

as a loving Father in spite of all the shit I had to swim thru.

They are both by Brennan Manning. The Ragamuffin Gospel. and Abba s

Child.

May they help you heal. And as always,

May we all heal.

Doug

>

> I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my

entire life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally

had enough. And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than

though. And yet, have stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age,

have really gotten to me.

>

> I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I

was no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early

childhood, I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not

finding a supportive environment there through the hardships in my

life...including divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who

could talk about and deal with real life problems without judging.

>

> All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who

checks to make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she

hears you talking to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some

man. I've found some religious people impossible to please, horribly

judgmental and down right rude. Not accepting the true hardships that

people have in there lives as normal. I've been condemned because my

house was messy while I was working all day to do therapy with my

severely autistic child. Which, I found to be absolutely horrible.

>

> I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was

raised in.

>

> But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the

church blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And

trying to reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult

if not impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes

outfits 6 or 7 times after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does

not remember where she is going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was

the bishop continually making comments about my not bringing her and

" that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh, good gravy who do these people

think they are? I think they are judgemental pigs. Instead, of really

truly helping people when they are in need, I get this crap! They don't

care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...me.

>

> I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

>

> My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and

now " meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my

mouth. Good for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide

their problems from others...really well. Leave me alone!

>

[Guest guest]

I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me no

matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I never felt

normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo emotionally screwed

up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I had major

problems. It saddens me.

I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your mother

not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

In a message dated 5/2/2010 1:37:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

friendsofcam@... writes:

I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my

entire life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally had

enough. And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though. And

yet, have stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really

gotten to me.

I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I was

no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early

childhood, I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not finding

a

supportive environment there through the hardships in my life...including

divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who could talk about and

deal with real life problems without judging.

All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks

to make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you

talking to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've

found some religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and

down right rude. Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there

lives as normal. I've been condemned because my house was messy while I was

working all day to do therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I

found to be absolutely horrible.

I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was raised

in.

But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible

to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times after

I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where she is

going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually making

comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh,

good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in need, I get

this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...But

I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and now

" meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth.

Good for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems

from others...really well. Leave me alone!

[Guest guest]

yep...my mother would say, " do you just want to go to hell? " when I would

tell a lie or something.

In a message dated 5/2/2010 12:23:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddog@... writes:

Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something like

there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul is almost

completely black and I was going to hell.

Jackie

I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me no

matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I never felt

normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo emotionally

screwed

up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I had

major

problems. It saddens me.

I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your mother

not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

[Guest guest]

It's funny that you should ask this particular question. My family runs all

kinds of ranges in the religious aspects, we have Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptist,

non-religious bikers, a little borderline paganism...BUT the Christian groups

really try to push for me to come back. And I decided that I needed to address

them...so I did a blog about Losing My Religion. It's eight installments because

there was a lot to cover as to why I had rejected religion and how I found my

faith.

http://www.chickswithscars.com/2010/04/losing-my-religion.html

So far, the family is quiet, which is good...because I had obviously given it a

LOT of thought and I directed them all there. As it turns out, there have been

a lot of people who felt like I did...so it was good to give an argument so to

speak or a voice to some of the thoughts.

The follow up, was actually quite interesting in that I got an e-mail via

Facebook from an old friend from church, who told me had heard about what I had

been through (I'm assuming by the church) and how he thought I was really brave.

Which was really emotional for me, because in the end I had discovered both

churches at each end of my street KNEW what was happening in my house and CHOSE

not to do anything about it...in fact they allowed their bible to legitimize it.

And when I came out...I was left standing very much alone.

I basically had to fight my way out...which made me a fierce bitch as far as

they were concerned.

Elle

>

> I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my entire

life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally had enough.

And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though. And yet, have

stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really gotten to me.

>

> I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I was

no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early childhood,

I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not finding a

supportive environment there through the hardships in my life...including

divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who could talk about and

deal with real life problems without judging.

>

> All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks to

make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you talking

to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've found some

religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and down right rude.

Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there lives as normal. I've

been condemned because my house was messy while I was working all day to do

therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I found to be absolutely

horrible.

>

> I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was raised

in.

>

> But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times

after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where she is

going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually making

comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh,

good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in need, I get

this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...me.

>

> I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

>

> My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and now

" meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth. Good

for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems from

others...really well. Leave me alone!

>

[Guest guest]

I think religious groups are like any other social groups. Some

of them are good while others are toxic. These people sound

toxic to me.

I was raised in a Methodist church. After my nada got kicked out

of our house, she started claiming that they were all hypocrits.

I never saw that myself though. They seemed like decent people

to me. I know that the minister at the time tried to do

something about my elementary school friend who was in an

abusive foster home. (She was being raped in addition to the

emotional abuse that we knew about, but that's something I

didn't find out until years later.) I didn't leave because the

church did anything wrong as such. I left because I had no faith

in what they taught.

If you do have faith, I recommend trying to find a better

church. Many churches are warm, welcoming and caring.

At 01:37 AM 05/02/2010 friend wrote:

>I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my

>throat my entire life by a borderline that I had to baby

>tend, that I've literally had enough. And my narcissistic

>relations who are all holier than though. And yet, have stolen

>up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really gotten

>to me.

>

>I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and

>found that I was no better off having done so. I was still

>sexually abused in early childhood, I was still " judged "

>constantly by people in the church. Not finding a supportive

>environment there through the hardships in my life...including

>divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who could

>talk about and deal with real life problems without judging.

>

>All the while towing the line to please this borderline person

>who checks to make sure your righteously wearing your

>underwear, and if she hears you talking to the cat at

>night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've found some

>religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and

>down right rude. Not accepting the true hardships that people

>have in there lives as normal. I've been condemned because my

>house was messy while I was working all day to do therapy with

>my severely autistic child. Which, I found to be absolutely

>horrible.

>

>I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that

>I was raised in.

>

>But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from

>the church blaming me that my mother has not been going to

>church. And trying to reactivate her. She is not

>inactive. She is senile...difficult if not impossible to get

>ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times

>after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember

>where she is going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the

>bishop continually making comments about my not bringing her

>and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh, good gravy who do

>these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

>pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in

>need, I get this crap! They don't care how much hardship it

>causes the caregiver...me.

>

>I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

>

>My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and

>sister, and now " meaning well " church members has really left

>a sour taste in my mouth. Good for them if their lives are

>perfect. Or, they just hide their problems from others...really

>well. Leave me alone!

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry your nadas church members are beeing bullies towards you...if I

were you, I'd tell them they are MORE then welcome to come over and get her

ready and take her themselves !!

Jackie

I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my

entire life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally

had enough. And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though.

And yet, have stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have

really gotten to me.

I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I was

no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early

childhood, I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not

finding a supportive environment there through the hardships in my

life...including divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who

could talk about and deal with real life problems without judging.

All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks to

make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you

talking to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've

found some religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and

down right rude. Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there

lives as normal. I've been condemned because my house was messy while I was

working all day to do therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I

found to be absolutely horrible.

I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was raised

in.

But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7

times after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where

she is going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually

making comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd

say. Oh, good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are

judgemental pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in

need, I get this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the

caregiver...me.

I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and now

" meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth.

Good for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems

from others...really well. Leave me alone!

[Guest guest]

Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something like

there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul is almost

completely black and I was going to hell.

Jackie

I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me no

matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I never felt

normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo emotionally

screwed

up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I had major

problems. It saddens me.

I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your mother

not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

[Guest guest]

That is terrible Jackie, I cannot imagine the effects this would have on a

child.

I am so sorry that she did this to you.

~patricia

Re: What's BPDs' effect on your religous beliefs?

Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something like

there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul is almost

completely black and I was going to hell.

Jackie

I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me no

matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I never felt

normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo emotionally

screwed

up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I had major

problems. It saddens me.

I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your mother

not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

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the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

I understand where you're coming from. My parents belonged to one of the many

Protestant Christian denominations, and my nada prided herself on attending

church regularly and tithing, but her emotional and physical abuse of me and my

Sister combined with her mouthing of religious dogma left me rather tepid and

unenthusiastic about organized religion in general. I think of myself as a

spiritual person without belonging to a specific religion. So, I get your

point.

-Annie

>

> I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my entire

life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally had enough.

And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though. And yet, have

stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really gotten to me.

>

> I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I was

no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early childhood,

I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not finding a

supportive environment there through the hardships in my life...including

divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who could talk about and

deal with real life problems without judging.

>

> All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks to

make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you talking

to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've found some

religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and down right rude.

Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there lives as normal. I've

been condemned because my house was messy while I was working all day to do

therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I found to be absolutely

horrible.

>

> I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was raised

in.

>

> But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times

after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where she is

going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually making

comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh,

good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in need, I get

this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...me.

>

> I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

>

> My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and now

" meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth. Good

for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems from

others...really well. Leave me alone!

>

[Guest guest]

Religion is a great place for evil to hide. For who is going to argue when

someone grabs the " Jesus " card out of their back pocket and throws it on the

table? God is the ultimate trump card, and destructive people use it often. I

believe Narcissists are too crazy to understand that using God as a wicked tool

just isn't a good idea . . .

I wrote this a few months ago: " The house I grew up in was wrought with the

things and symbols of God. I learned Bible stories and God songs and grew up in

a church where my attackers were active, much-loved leaders. There was prayer

before every meal and every bedtime. Devotions were read publicly every day.

Scripture was used to slap me—hard—when I was being chewed down by my should-be

protectors. I did not grow up in a home that denounced God or ignored God or

hated God. God was everywhere. And yet, as I scramble to find Him in my horror

story, He seems to be nowhere. "

To answer your question: What is the effect on my religious beliefs? I am a

strong woman of God, starting Seminary in less than three weeks, and am wholly

devoted to God. And, that has not come without a fight--I had to reject the

insanity of my religious parents, heal from their spiritual abuse, disconnect

from toxic churches that held more of their kind, and find the courage to figure

out God's TRUE ways on my own.

Thankfully, my rejection of them took me to the real God. And I learned, in my

own interpretation, that they grossly misinterpreted God's heart. Abuse is not

God. Manipulation is not God. God does not add guilt to your burdens when they

are so incredibly hard to bear--God adds kindness and wants others to pick up

the slack. Period.

And I'm sorry you are going through the added--and unnecessary--burden of shame.

What a load of crap.

If they're so great, why don't they do your laundry while you are working with

your son and pick up your mother while you are trying to get to church? If its

so easy, why aren't they doing it? They are supposed to be family. And if it

is so important to them, they can step up and leave you out of it.

Phew. Got a little excited there. Didn't mean to preach a sermon!!

I understand your frustration, and share it on your behalf!! Good for you for

walking strong in what you need to do. Just know you have a right to be angry.

None of that makes sense.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my entire

life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally had enough.

And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though. And yet, have

stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really gotten to me.

>

> I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I was

no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early childhood,

I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not finding a

supportive environment there through the hardships in my life...including

divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who could talk about and

deal with real life problems without judging.

>

> All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks to

make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you talking

to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've found some

religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and down right rude.

Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there lives as normal. I've

been condemned because my house was messy while I was working all day to do

therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I found to be absolutely

horrible.

>

> I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was raised

in.

>

> But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times

after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where she is

going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually making

comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh,

good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in need, I get

this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...me.

>

> I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

>

> My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and now

" meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth. Good

for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems from

others...really well. Leave me alone!

>

[Guest guest]

Huge effects. I could elaborate but I might not stop writing. I'll just say,

messed up stuff I have experienced throughout my life in the name of God makes

it tough spiritually but it was a life saver for me growing up at the same time.

Confusing stuff.

patinage

>

> I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my entire

life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally had enough.

And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though. And yet, have

stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really gotten to me.

>

> I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I was

no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early childhood,

I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not finding a

supportive environment there through the hardships in my life...including

divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who could talk about and

deal with real life problems without judging.

>

> All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks to

make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you talking

to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've found some

religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and down right rude.

Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there lives as normal. I've

been condemned because my house was messy while I was working all day to do

therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I found to be absolutely

horrible.

>

> I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was raised

in.

>

> But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times

after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where she is

going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually making

comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh,

good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in need, I get

this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...me.

>

> I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

>

> My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and now

" meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth. Good

for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems from

others...really well. Leave me alone!

>

[Guest guest]

thanks , I guess thats part of why I pulled away from the

church...if they were going to send me to hell because I did something my

nada didnt like, they weren't very nice people ( IMO)

Jackie

That is terrible Jackie, I cannot imagine the effects this would have on a

child.

I am so sorry that she did this to you.

~patricia

[Guest guest]

Friend - If it's a strong church community, they should have some members who

would see it as their religious duty to come give you a hand (like, wrestle Nada

into her clothes and take her to services while you have an extra couple hours'

sleep on the Sabbath!). If they're just going to harangue you while you

struggle to deal with Nada as well as an autistic child, then I think they're

being no help at all - and that's not the role of a community of faith. (or any

other kind of community, for that matter)

If they're not going to pitch in and help, they're just wasting your time. So

just do what the rest of us do when proselytizers come a-calling. Close the

curtains, turn down the TV, and hunker down until they leave. Nobody has the

right to come into your house (without a warrant) unless you open the door and

invite them in.

But about BPD's effect on my religious beliefs - my Nada took us to a

smorgasbord of churches wherever we lived. She was always more impressed by the

building, litany, and quality of the choir than she was by any particular

" message, " and church involved her screaming at us to dress up in uncomfortable

clothes. So I equated church with a Nada-fit, and discounted any real strong

connection with religion. However, I spent a lot of time camping as a young

adult. Standing on top of Grandfather Mountain in North Carolina, or on a high

point along the Appalachian Trail, or the Sierra Nevada Range, or in Yosemite,

or the Gulf Coast beaches at sunrise or sunset - there's no question that God

dwells there. So those are my cathedrals, and that's where I go when I need to

connect with the spirit of creation.

>

> That is terrible Jackie, I cannot imagine the effects this would have on a

child.

> I am so sorry that she did this to you.

> ~patricia

> Re: What's BPDs' effect on your religous

beliefs?

>

>

> Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something like

> there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul is almost

> completely black and I was going to hell.

>

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me no

> matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I never felt

> normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo emotionally

> screwed

> up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I had major

> problems. It saddens me.

>

> I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your mother

> not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

Well what makes me feel mad is that one's soul is a

private matter, and no one has a right to make you feel

otherwise! Soul-wounding is a serious offense. Unfortunately

it happens A LOT. And children can't protect themselves.

~patricia

Re: What's BPDs' effect on your religous beliefs?

thanks , I guess thats part of why I pulled away from the

church...if they were going to send me to hell because I did something my

nada didnt like, they weren't very nice people ( IMO)

Jackie

That is terrible Jackie, I cannot imagine the effects this would have on a

child.

I am so sorry that she did this to you.

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi , no, kids cant protect themselves..and they look to the parents

to teach them about religion...so from a very early age I figured I didnt

have a future..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Well what makes me feel mad is that one's soul is a

private matter, and no one has a right to make you feel

otherwise! Soul-wounding is a serious offense. Unfortunately

it happens A LOT. And children can't protect themselves.

~patricia

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

Did anything change this for you? Meaning, did you find some other

spiritual meaning in your life? (you might have mentioned and I missed it)

Or did leaving the situation change things?

When I was a kid, I remember getting off the bus and for some reason followed

kids to a neighbor's porch and she was doing this rap on being born again and

did I want to be born again (so I didn't go to hell) and accept Jesus into my

heart?

I said: yes. I mean of course I didn't want to go to hell. But the whole thing

was

creepy and inappropriate (my parents didn't know she was doing this!).

I had a few things like this happen, not just in a Christian format.

~patricia

Re: What's BPDs' effect on your religous beliefs?

Hi , no, kids cant protect themselves..and they look to the parents

to teach them about religion...so from a very early age I figured I didnt

have a future..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Well what makes me feel mad is that one's soul is a

private matter, and no one has a right to make you feel

otherwise! Soul-wounding is a serious offense. Unfortunately

it happens A LOT. And children can't protect themselves.

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

HI ..I guess I've always been spiritual..I just dont agree with the

man made rules of organized religion ( why would God care if I wore a hat

to communion or not ?? an old Catholic rule) I try and be the best person I

can be and try to get along with others..I believe there is some sort of

" after life " , we will be together with those we loved and lost..I believe

in the 10 commandments and the golden rule..I do not think there is an

entity sitting on a throne looking down on us and judging us..because I

can't wrap my mind around why this entity wouldn't then help us...how could

anyone sit there and watch idly at all the injustices in the world..I do

believe we will be held accountable at the end for how we lived our

lives..I have to because I need to know there will be justice for us who

were abused..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Did anything change this for you? Meaning, did you find some other

spiritual meaning in your life? (you might have mentioned and I missed it)

Or did leaving the situation change things?

When I was a kid, I remember getting off the bus and for some reason

followed

kids to a neighbor's porch and she was doing this rap on being born again

and

did I want to be born again (so I didn't go to hell) and accept Jesus into

my heart?

I said: yes. I mean of course I didn't want to go to hell. But the whole

thing was

creepy and inappropriate (my parents didn't know she was doing this!).

I had a few things like this happen, not just in a Christian format.

~patricia

[Guest guest]

What bothers me too is that while some religions claim some superior

relationship to God and " you're going to hell " if you don't follow them...From

what I understand religiosity/spirituality in large part is a brain function.

There is a part of the brain that becomes over or under active...making some one

more or less inclined to seek out religion. www.amenclinic.com has brain scans

showing this. And if our level of brain functioning is also affecting rather we

are violent, criminal, or religious then what does that have to do with God?

And how then is one religion above another?

>

> I have been so frustrated with religion being forced down my throat my entire

life by a borderline that I had to baby tend, that I've literally had enough.

And my narcissistic relations who are all holier than though. And yet, have

stolen up to my mothers last dime for her old age, have really gotten to me.

>

> I tried to live perfectly, as I was taught for years, and found that I was

no better off having done so. I was still sexually abused in early childhood,

I was still " judged " constantly by people in the church. Not finding a

supportive environment there through the hardships in my life...including

divorce, I had to look outside the church to people who could talk about and

deal with real life problems without judging.

>

> All the while towing the line to please this borderline person who checks to

make sure your righteously wearing your underwear, and if she hears you talking

to the cat at night, accuses you of sleeping with some man. I've found some

religious people impossible to please, horribly judgmental and down right rude.

Not accepting the true hardships that people have in there lives as normal. I've

been condemned because my house was messy while I was working all day to do

therapy with my severely autistic child. Which, I found to be absolutely

horrible.

>

> I'm not condemning all religions. I only know of the one that I was raised

in.

>

> But, now, I'm dealing with people constantly coming over from the church

blaming me that my mother has not been going to church. And trying to

reactivate her. She is not inactive. She is senile...difficult if not

impossible to get ready that early in the morning (changes outfits 6 or 7 times

after I've thought I've gotten her ready) and does not remember where she is

going, or that she has been. Tonight, it was the bishop continually making

comments about my not bringing her and " that's not an excuse " he'd say. Oh,

good gravy who do these people think they are? I think they are judgemental

pigs. Instead, of really truly helping people when they are in need, I get

this crap! They don't care how much hardship it causes the caregiver...me.

>

> I'm sorry. But, I just had to vent here. I've had it.

>

> My dealings with a BPD, narcissitic disordered brother and sister, and now

" meaning well " church members has really left a sour taste in my mouth. Good

for them if their lives are perfect. Or, they just hide their problems from

others...really well. Leave me alone!

>

[Guest guest]

yes, that has always bothered me as well..and I think if there is a god and

Jesus, they would be very unhappy about religions claiming this

Jackie

What bothers me too is that while some religions claim some superior

relationship to God and " you're going to hell " if you don't follow

them...From what I understand religiosity/spirituality in large part is a

brain function. There is a part of the brain that becomes over or under

active...making some one more or less inclined to seek out religion.

www.amenclinic.com has brain scans showing this. And if our level of brain

functioning is also affecting rather we are violent, criminal, or religious

then what does that have to do with God? And how then is one religion above

another?

[Guest guest]

This may sound facetious, but I'm dead serious. We used to have

Jehovahs coming to the door but then two things happened. One, DD put

her The Witch is In sign near her door along with a witch yard ornament.

Then we did up our yard like a spooky graveyard for Halloween.

The religion recruiters now practically run past.

Sent from my blueberry.

On May 3, 2010, at 10:47 AM, " shirleyspawn "

wrote:

> Friend - If it's a strong church community, they should have some

> members who would see it as their religious duty to come give you a

> hand (like, wrestle Nada into her clothes and take her to services

> while you have an extra couple hours' sleep on the Sabbath!). If

> they're just going to harangue you while you struggle to deal with

> Nada as well as an autistic child, then I think they're being no

> help at all - and that's not the role of a community of faith. (or

> any other kind of community, for that matter)

>

> If they're not going to pitch in and help, they're just wasting your

> time. So just do what the rest of us do when proselytizers come a-

> calling. Close the curtains, turn down the TV, and hunker down until

> they leave. Nobody has the right to come into your house (without a

> warrant) unless you open the door and invite them in.

>

> But about BPD's effect on my religious beliefs - my Nada took us to

> a smorgasbord of churches wherever we lived. She was always more

> impressed by the building, litany, and quality of the choir than she

> was by any particular " message, " and church involved her screaming

> at us to dress up in uncomfortable clothes. So I equated church with

> a Nada-fit, and discounted any real strong connection with religion.

> However, I spent a lot of time camping as a young adult. Standing on

> top of Grandfather Mountain in North Carolina, or on a high point

> along the Appalachian Trail, or the Sierra Nevada Range, or in

> Yosemite, or the Gulf Coast beaches at sunrise or sunset - there's

> no question that God dwells there. So those are my cathedrals, and

> that's where I go when I need to connect with the spirit of creation.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > That is terrible Jackie, I cannot imagine the effects this would

> have on a child.

> > I am so sorry that she did this to you.

> > ~patricia

> > Re: What's BPDs' effect on your

> religous beliefs?

> >

> >

> > Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something

> like

> > there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul

> is almost

> > completely black and I was going to hell.

> >

> >

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me

> no

> > matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I

> never felt

> > normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo

> emotionally

> > screwed

> > up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I

> had major

> > problems. It saddens me.

> >

> > I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your

> mother

> > not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @...

> SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-

> SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to ï

> ¿½Understanding the Borderline Mother� (Lawson) and ï

> ¿½Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you can find

> at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

> author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

That is so funny! And strangely coincidental because I have

had visitors lately from one religious group and I am not interested

but I have a hard time turning people away; I just let them say their

thing and they usually go. But this morning I had one of those waking

dreams that they had come back to my door and I pretended not to

hear them!

A Halloween ornament would be an easy fix though~

~patricia

Re: What's BPDs' effect on your

> religous beliefs?

> >

> >

> > Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something

> like

> > there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul

> is almost

> > completely black and I was going to hell.

> >

> >

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me

> no

> > matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I

> never felt

> > normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo

> emotionally

> > screwed

> > up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I

> had major

> > problems. It saddens me.

> >

> > I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your

> mother

> > not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @...

> SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-

> SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to ï

> ¿½Understanding the Borderline Mother� (Lawson) and ï

> ¿½Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you can find

> at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

> author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

When drawing the drapes and pretending to be gone won't work, I just answer the

door and tell them, " Oh, thanks, but we're all set with that. " Then I smile

brightly and close the door - firmly. They're just doing what they think is

right, and I honor that. And they are welcome to take their message right on

down the road, where there's a chance they'll meet somebody who wants to hear

their version.

You could also put a " Day Sleeper " or " Napping Baby - Please Do Not Disturb "

sign on your front door. Presumably you DO sometimes sleep during the day, and

that's called napping, baby.

> > >

> > > That is terrible Jackie, I cannot imagine the effects this would

> > have on a child.

> > > I am so sorry that she did this to you.

> > > ~patricia

> > > Re: What's BPDs' effect on your

> > religous beliefs?

> > >

> > >

> > > Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something

> > like

> > > there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul

> > is almost

> > > completely black and I was going to hell.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me

> > no

> > > matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I

> > never felt

> > > normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo

> > emotionally

> > > screwed

> > > up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I

> > had major

> > > problems. It saddens me.

> > >

> > > I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your

> > mother

> > > not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @

> > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> > >

> > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-

> > SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to ï

> > ¿½Understanding the Borderline Mother� (Lawson) and ï

> > ¿½Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you can find

> > at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> > >

> > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

> > author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

I do something similar, when they say are you sure you are saved? I look them

in the eye and say " YES I am " with great certainty. This usually confuses them

momentarily. And I just assert I'm saved don't need to hear them I've got stuff

to do. Shut door...done! I like the ideas of putting up something that would

keep them from knocking altogether though. You could try a decorative pentagram

- I bet that would really do it. Or maybe one of those cool ceramic Green Man

masks on the door. Or...a " no solicitors " sign.

> > > >

> > > > That is terrible Jackie, I cannot imagine the effects this would

> > > have on a child.

> > > > I am so sorry that she did this to you.

> > > > ~patricia

> > > > Re: What's BPDs' effect on your

> > > religous beliefs?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something

> > > like

> > > > there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul

> > > is almost

> > > > completely black and I was going to hell.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Jackie

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me

> > > no

> > > > matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I

> > > never felt

> > > > normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo

> > > emotionally

> > > > screwed

> > > > up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I

> > > had major

> > > > problems. It saddens me.

> > > >

> > > > I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your

> > > mother

> > > > not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @

> > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> > > >

> > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-

> > > SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to ï

> > > ¿½Understanding the Borderline Mother� (Lawson) and ï

> > > ¿½Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you can find

> > > at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> > > >

> > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

> > > author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I know, I am too passive sometimes (um....lots of the time). I just don't like

to hurt

people's feelings and clearly they are doing what they think is right. My son

is a

rabid atheist (he is 15) and so he takes offense but it has happened to him as

well

and he was not rude (I wasn't there but he told me about it).

I think that is funny: We're all set with that (presumably our spiritual

salvation!)

And yeah, I always sleep during the day.....napping, baby!

~patricia

Re: What's BPDs' effect on your

> > religous beliefs?

> > >

> > >

> > > Every time I did something nada didn't like, she'd say something

> > like

> > > there's another black mark on your soul...then would say my soul

> > is almost

> > > completely black and I was going to hell.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I remember just worrying constantly that God was ready to smite me

> > no

> > > matter what I did. My mother said I was bad, so I felt 'bad.' I

> > never felt

> > > normal. When I think about myself as a child, I was sooooo

> > emotionally

> > > screwed

> > > up that I think someone could talk to me for 5 minutes and know I

> > had major

> > > problems. It saddens me.

> > >

> > > I think it is unbelievably crazy for people to blame you for your

> > mother

> > > not in church. It is not your responsibility nor is it your fault.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @

> > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> > >

> > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-

> > SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to ï

> > ¿½Understanding the Borderline Mother� (Lawson) and ï

> > ¿½Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you can find

> > at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> > >

> > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

> > author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.