Re: Student

[Guest guest]

As I just said in a reply to another post, I've been away for a few days,

haven't gone through all the posts yet, so could repeat what's already

been said.

However, (now 20) has periodically had real fits of laughing.

Teachers would say that it was a behavior, had no purpose, etc. I'm from a

family of psychiatrists and neurologists, and I promise you if any of them

had thought she had Tourettes (sp?), it would have been hit hard years

ago.

I remember in the Hilton-Perkins deafblind training several years ago -

and also from things said by deafblind consultants before went to

Perkins: the rest of us can have our oddities. Why do the kids have to be

different? Sure, something could be amiss neurologically. We certainly

had checked repeatedly. But we must be very careful in our

assessments, I believe, because our kids CAN BE so different from the

norm - in their experiences, their appearance, their reactions, add what

you will. I certainly don't know how these differences can manifest

themselves, but I have no trouble believing that they can be confused with

problems other than what's really present. For instance, professionals

trained in autism might swear that was autistic. We've seen this for

years - and it caused tremendous damage...Martha

[Guest guest]

As I just said in a reply to another post, I've been away for a few days,

haven't gone through all the posts yet, so could repeat what's already

been said.

However, (now 20) has periodically had real fits of laughing.

Teachers would say that it was a behavior, had no purpose, etc. I'm from a

family of psychiatrists and neurologists, and I promise you if any of them

had thought she had Tourettes (sp?), it would have been hit hard years

ago.

I remember in the Hilton-Perkins deafblind training several years ago -

and also from things said by deafblind consultants before went to

Perkins: the rest of us can have our oddities. Why do the kids have to be

different? Sure, something could be amiss neurologically. We certainly

had checked repeatedly. But we must be very careful in our

assessments, I believe, because our kids CAN BE so different from the

norm - in their experiences, their appearance, their reactions, add what

you will. I certainly don't know how these differences can manifest

themselves, but I have no trouble believing that they can be confused with

problems other than what's really present. For instance, professionals

trained in autism might swear that was autistic. We've seen this for

years - and it caused tremendous damage...Martha

[Guest guest]

As I just said in a reply to another post, I've been away for a few days,

haven't gone through all the posts yet, so could repeat what's already

been said.

However, (now 20) has periodically had real fits of laughing.

Teachers would say that it was a behavior, had no purpose, etc. I'm from a

family of psychiatrists and neurologists, and I promise you if any of them

had thought she had Tourettes (sp?), it would have been hit hard years

ago.

I remember in the Hilton-Perkins deafblind training several years ago -

and also from things said by deafblind consultants before went to

Perkins: the rest of us can have our oddities. Why do the kids have to be

different? Sure, something could be amiss neurologically. We certainly

had checked repeatedly. But we must be very careful in our

assessments, I believe, because our kids CAN BE so different from the

norm - in their experiences, their appearance, their reactions, add what

you will. I certainly don't know how these differences can manifest

themselves, but I have no trouble believing that they can be confused with

problems other than what's really present. For instance, professionals

trained in autism might swear that was autistic. We've seen this for

years - and it caused tremendous damage...Martha

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Tourette's Syndrome waxes and wanes throughout life and symptoms do appear to

stop and then reappear at odd times. Adolescents plays a BIG part in

this--hormones do funny things to all of us!

The laughing behavior could very well be this and if he has a positive

diagnosis, were/are meds part of the picture? I'll bet he has other " funny "

little behaviors that may also be related to his Tourette's diagnosis--many

might look like OCD, but he may have some " Tic " like things (of which the

laughing is one). I think it might be worth referring him back to the

neurologist, checking his medication history and see if he needs it " upped " if

he is on some, started again if he is off, or prescribed if his behaviors are

out of control.

Also, can this little guy talk about this laughing? Can he say whether it is

bothering him? if he feels it coming on? Can he stop it?

Bonnie, you may be able to some information here, too.

pam

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Tourette's Syndrome waxes and wanes throughout life and symptoms do appear to

stop and then reappear at odd times. Adolescents plays a BIG part in

this--hormones do funny things to all of us!

The laughing behavior could very well be this and if he has a positive

diagnosis, were/are meds part of the picture? I'll bet he has other " funny "

little behaviors that may also be related to his Tourette's diagnosis--many

might look like OCD, but he may have some " Tic " like things (of which the

laughing is one). I think it might be worth referring him back to the

neurologist, checking his medication history and see if he needs it " upped " if

he is on some, started again if he is off, or prescribed if his behaviors are

out of control.

Also, can this little guy talk about this laughing? Can he say whether it is

bothering him? if he feels it coming on? Can he stop it?

Bonnie, you may be able to some information here, too.

pam

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Tourette's Syndrome waxes and wanes throughout life and symptoms do appear to

stop and then reappear at odd times. Adolescents plays a BIG part in

this--hormones do funny things to all of us!

The laughing behavior could very well be this and if he has a positive

diagnosis, were/are meds part of the picture? I'll bet he has other " funny "

little behaviors that may also be related to his Tourette's diagnosis--many

might look like OCD, but he may have some " Tic " like things (of which the

laughing is one). I think it might be worth referring him back to the

neurologist, checking his medication history and see if he needs it " upped " if

he is on some, started again if he is off, or prescribed if his behaviors are

out of control.

Also, can this little guy talk about this laughing? Can he say whether it is

bothering him? if he feels it coming on? Can he stop it?

Bonnie, you may be able to some information here, too.

pam

[Guest guest]

Pam: Do you mean that 's quirks (the silliness [and Andy and I have

definitely experienced odd laughter], etc.) could be Tourettes? I've known

kids and young adults with this, and just doesn't remind me of them.

Of course, I could have my head in the sand.

Please do me a favor and let know that OCD was extremely high

for part of break. I cannot find the email address she gave us. I don't have

my notes with me now, but I think it started @ 8/8. I left my notes at Eliot -

alas they are so long that I don't really expect anyone to read them. While

OCD was very high at times, there was virtually no SIB, and

remained quite well " connected. " We just had to retrace steps alot, she

had to touch my arms a lot, etc. This isn't in my notes, but please share:

cried and was quite unhappy when we were leaving the house for

the drive to St. Louis; this was severe. She actually signed that she didn't

like school. Once in the car, however, all was grand - truly grand. She was

thrilled with the drive, the hotel, seeing Missy, etc. I think we have a real

case of ambivalence here! That's fine. She should miss us AND her

friends... Martha

[Guest guest]

Pam: Do you mean that 's quirks (the silliness [and Andy and I have

definitely experienced odd laughter], etc.) could be Tourettes? I've known

kids and young adults with this, and just doesn't remind me of them.

Of course, I could have my head in the sand.

Please do me a favor and let know that OCD was extremely high

for part of break. I cannot find the email address she gave us. I don't have

my notes with me now, but I think it started @ 8/8. I left my notes at Eliot -

alas they are so long that I don't really expect anyone to read them. While

OCD was very high at times, there was virtually no SIB, and

remained quite well " connected. " We just had to retrace steps alot, she

had to touch my arms a lot, etc. This isn't in my notes, but please share:

cried and was quite unhappy when we were leaving the house for

the drive to St. Louis; this was severe. She actually signed that she didn't

like school. Once in the car, however, all was grand - truly grand. She was

thrilled with the drive, the hotel, seeing Missy, etc. I think we have a real

case of ambivalence here! That's fine. She should miss us AND her

friends... Martha

[Guest guest]

Pam: Do you mean that 's quirks (the silliness [and Andy and I have

definitely experienced odd laughter], etc.) could be Tourettes? I've known

kids and young adults with this, and just doesn't remind me of them.

Of course, I could have my head in the sand.

Please do me a favor and let know that OCD was extremely high

for part of break. I cannot find the email address she gave us. I don't have

my notes with me now, but I think it started @ 8/8. I left my notes at Eliot -

alas they are so long that I don't really expect anyone to read them. While

OCD was very high at times, there was virtually no SIB, and

remained quite well " connected. " We just had to retrace steps alot, she

had to touch my arms a lot, etc. This isn't in my notes, but please share:

cried and was quite unhappy when we were leaving the house for

the drive to St. Louis; this was severe. She actually signed that she didn't

like school. Once in the car, however, all was grand - truly grand. She was

thrilled with the drive, the hotel, seeing Missy, etc. I think we have a real

case of ambivalence here! That's fine. She should miss us AND her

friends... Martha

[Guest guest]

Pam,

" can this little guy talk about this laughing "

Pam, It's not really funny but I can't help it. I'll tell you why I am laughing

out loud as I type.

My student is 14 yrs old, about 5'9'( I'm 5'4 " ) and weights about

250 lbs. )

He is quite low functioning as public school sp. ed goes. Reads about

1st/2nd grade, poor social skills, extremely immature. easily distracted,

coddled and babied at home, If I remember right his adaptive behaviors were all

really low. He does laugh at things that are really funny but more often

laughs at inapropriate times. Some times I know he can help it, others he

doesn't realize he is doing it.

I ask him if he knew why he laughed. He said, " I think of funny things and

laugh. " When he is making noises he has no idea, if I call his name he kind of

gently startles and the noise stops.

Mom said he was on meds in first grade, we have no records. I ask her to

supply them, he is now in 8th. Non of this was ever mentioned last year. Mom was

angry with the 7th grade sp. ed teacher, Long story. I just hope she follows

through with some re-evals. this year. Mom is unique too.

Another question, a little over a year ago he was in a car accident and hurt

his back. I know he had PT last year. Could this play a part too?

Thanks do much for you help. I am in uncharted waters in my 15 years of

teaching.special ed. in public school. I'm sorry that it isn't CHARGE related,

but there is so much expertise here. I don't think my supervisor knows much

about Tourette's Syndrom either.

Lynn

RE: Student

Lynn,

Tourette's Syndrome waxes and wanes throughout life and symptoms do appear to

stop and then reappear at odd times. Adolescents plays a BIG part in

this--hormones do funny things to all of us!

The laughing behavior could very well be this and if he has a positive

diagnosis, were/are meds part of the picture? I'll bet he has other " funny "

little behaviors that may also be related to his Tourette's diagnosis--many

might look like OCD, but he may have some " Tic " like things (of which the

laughing is one). I think it might be worth referring him back to the

neurologist, checking his medication history and see if he needs it " upped " if

he is on some, started again if he is off, or prescribed if his behaviors are

out of control.

Also, can this little guy talk about this laughing? Can he say whether it is

bothering him? if he feels it coming on? Can he stop it?

Bonnie, you may be able to some information here, too.

pam

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Tourettes is hard for any person to deal with. Patty has it for years and it

has been difficult for her at times. Yes, she can control them a little.

But the doctor explained it to us that holding it in is much like holding in a

sneeze. You can hold it in for a while but in doing so when you eventually do

sneeze it comes out more forceful than if you had just sneezed in the first

place. The same goes with her tics.

She started when she was in fourth grade. It started as a hand flail, went

to her arms, then a knee jerk and finally a clearing of the nose sound with her

arms, leg, stomach hit and more. It was embarrassing for her especially at

first because of things like her pencil would fly across the room if her hand

flailed.

It was incredibly important to find a psychiatrist who diagnosed her with

Tourettes, slowly worked with her in finding the correct medication, but also

understood she had other issues as well-CHARGE-and could help her with

relaxation

techniques and more!

Her tics have increased and decreased throughout her life. Medications were

and are vital to her. Finally he put her on Risperdal which helped it. It

didn't take them away but it sure helped. Stress is one of the things that can

trigger tics for everyone. Finding ways to reduce the stress is important.

The stresses of the emotion of being embaressed by tics and people not

understanding them can also be socially isolating. Patty found leaving the class

for a

minute or two and go to the bathroom to let herself tic in the stall helped.

And so did me telling people to back off. Once her assistant even followed

her into the bathroom because she felt Patty was trying to get out of work. UGH!

It was more like the lady was stressing her out and that was Patty's way of

coping with her. She didn't remain her assistant that's for sure. Reducing

stress was important to by doing things such as letting her know what was

going to happen in her life next. Transitions that were unknown to her set it

off

as well. And Patty also learned easily to focus and breath in through her

nose and out through her mouth. That helps.

And then there is wonderful and delightful PUBERTY. During puberty the brain

is unique in its electrical firing and is often changing. It can totally

mess the person up. Even on the meds her tics came back full force. Again there

was an added med. Now that she is stabilized she went back to only Risperdal.

Her tics are minimal now too. It isn't the end of the world but

understanding tics and the person go a long way.

I don't know if any of this helps but it is so important to see a doctor for

diagnosis.

Oh and the doctor said it is the breakage of electrical firingwithin the

synapses of the brain which causes the toruettes. Where the breakage in the

current happens is what makes it Tourettes. That is similar to OCD and ADHD

too.

Lucky! Risperdal helps with all of those. Where the break in the currant

makes the OCD symptoms, Tourettes ... they can go together. Add stresses or

frustrations to the person and whamo!

I am sure as time goes on her tics will come back, but then with that I am

also sure they will subside too. She's fine with it now.

Bonnie Mom to a now 22, Patty CHARGE 20 tomorrow, and wife to

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Well now you have me rolling on the floor!!! You know, I know you said he was

not CHARGE, but somehow I forgot that. And... in forgetting that minor detail,

I assumed he was small!! haha, obviously NOT!!!

IT sounds like this guy has a vocal tic from your description of his making

noise and then startling when he hears his name. The laughing sounds like a

" sometimes " manifestation, too.

Good luck in getting Mom on board with eval, history gathering, etc. Surely he

has a school file which might include some of this history?? Or would mom allow

the school nurse to call his pediatrician (or you, if you were ready, willing,

and able?) to gather some of this?

It would be hard to know if the car accident exacerated anything--in my own

opinion it would be hard to ferret out normal waxing and waning from any outside

influence (e.g., car accident). Of course, stress can exacerbate Tourette's

so....

There is lots of information about Tourette's available (on the web and printed)

and much of it is easy to read and understand. Again, if he has a positive

diagnosis, he should continue to followed by a neurologist and/or psychiatrist.

Medication can help and an understanding of how to deal with the issues around

Tourette's--what is in his control or not.

Good luck and keep us posted. Oh, and given that you will not probably not grow

anymore, big shoes might bring you up to his height!!!

pam

[Guest guest]

Pam

I have bad feet, heels for height are out. ) I am used to it. Many of my

junior high kids are tall and bigger than I am. I used to be 5'5 " but I have

lost an inch in the last two to three years. ( Now I know it's due to

ostoperosis,) I " walk softly and carry a detention form if needed " . I am

so used to looking up at 7th and 8th graders.

His file has no records of Tourette's, just what Mom told me. I ask her to

find the doctor's records. I have no idea if she will follow through. I

haven't checked but if he is due for an MFE this year, the psychologist can

almost demand an medical eval if she agrees with the suspected diagnosis. Mom

sounded willing on the phone, time will tell.

Thanks for you input and support. I am in " uncharted waters " here.

Lynn

RE: Student

Lynn,

Well now you have me rolling on the floor!!! You know, I know you said he was

not CHARGE, but somehow I forgot that. And... in forgetting that minor detail,

I assumed he was small!! haha, obviously NOT!!!

IT sounds like this guy has a vocal tic from your description of his making

noise and then startling when he hears his name. The laughing sounds like a

" sometimes " manifestation, too.

Good luck in getting Mom on board with eval, history gathering, etc. Surely

he has a school file which might include some of this history?? Or would mom

allow the school nurse to call his pediatrician (or you, if you were ready,

willing, and able?) to gather some of this?

It would be hard to know if the car accident exacerated anything--in my own

opinion it would be hard to ferret out normal waxing and waning from any outside

influence (e.g., car accident). Of course, stress can exacerbate Tourette's

so....

There is lots of information about Tourette's available (on the web and

printed) and much of it is easy to read and understand. Again, if he has a

positive diagnosis, he should continue to followed by a neurologist and/or

psychiatrist. Medication can help and an understanding of how to deal with the

issues around Tourette's--what is in his control or not.

Good luck and keep us posted. Oh, and given that you will not probably not

grow anymore, big shoes might bring you up to his height!!!

pam

[Guest guest]

Bonnie,

Thanks so much for you information. It all makes sense to me. I just have to

get Mom on board and have her take him to the doctor. She said she was seeing

the same behaviors at home but thought his 1st grade diagnosis of Tourette's was

gone. I will encouage Mom to follow through. In the mean time I am trying to

reduce stress in class. ( not easy to do) and help the student himself and

others understand most of the time he can't help it.

Thanks again,'

Lynn

Re: Student

Lynn,

Tourettes is hard for any person to deal with. Patty has it for years and it

has been difficult for her at times. Yes, she can control them a little.

But the doctor explained it to us that holding it in is much like holding in a

sneeze. You can hold it in for a while but in doing so when you eventually do

sneeze it comes out more forceful than if you had just sneezed in the first

place. The same goes with her tics.

She started when she was in fourth grade. It started as a hand flail, went

to her arms, then a knee jerk and finally a clearing of the nose sound with

her

arms, leg, stomach hit and more. It was embarrassing for her especially at

first because of things like her pencil would fly across the room if her hand

flailed.

It was incredibly important to find a psychiatrist who diagnosed her with

Tourettes, slowly worked with her in finding the correct medication, but also

understood she had other issues as well-CHARGE-and could help her with

relaxation

techniques and more!

Her tics have increased and decreased throughout her life. Medications were

and are vital to her. Finally he put her on Risperdal which helped it. It

didn't take them away but it sure helped. Stress is one of the things that

can

trigger tics for everyone. Finding ways to reduce the stress is important.

The stresses of the emotion of being embaressed by tics and people not

understanding them can also be socially isolating. Patty found leaving the

class for a

minute or two and go to the bathroom to let herself tic in the stall helped.

And so did me telling people to back off. Once her assistant even followed

her into the bathroom because she felt Patty was trying to get out of work.

UGH!

It was more like the lady was stressing her out and that was Patty's way of

coping with her. She didn't remain her assistant that's for sure. Reducing

stress was important to by doing things such as letting her know what was

going to happen in her life next. Transitions that were unknown to her set it

off

as well. And Patty also learned easily to focus and breath in through her

nose and out through her mouth. That helps.

And then there is wonderful and delightful PUBERTY. During puberty the brain

is unique in its electrical firing and is often changing. It can totally

mess the person up. Even on the meds her tics came back full force. Again

there

was an added med. Now that she is stabilized she went back to only Risperdal.

Her tics are minimal now too. It isn't the end of the world but

understanding tics and the person go a long way.

I don't know if any of this helps but it is so important to see a doctor for

diagnosis.

Oh and the doctor said it is the breakage of electrical firingwithin the

synapses of the brain which causes the toruettes. Where the breakage in the

current happens is what makes it Tourettes. That is similar to OCD and ADHD

too.

Lucky! Risperdal helps with all of those. Where the break in the currant

makes the OCD symptoms, Tourettes ... they can go together. Add stresses or

frustrations to the person and whamo!

I am sure as time goes on her tics will come back, but then with that I am

also sure they will subside too. She's fine with it now.

Bonnie Mom to a now 22, Patty CHARGE 20 tomorrow, and wife to

[Guest guest]

Hi Martha,

No, I think that 's silly/laughing is really different than what Lynn

seems to be describing. I DO NOT think that has Tourette's (from my own

experiences, too, but I am not an expert). Her silly/laughing does appear to be

within her control, as it were!

I will pass on your note about the OCD to this morning--I am printing it

as we speak.

I will also ask her about Kate's overalls--unless you are sending them

separately--and the hemming they might need

more later, enjoy the day.

pam

[Guest guest]

Pam:

I'm relieved that you feel the way I do about and Tourettes.

I am indeed sending 's other new overalls, shoes, and doubtless

other things. They'll probably go off later this week. As I recall, there's one

orangish/rust pair already at Perkins. I know tried them on but have

no recollection of whether or not they need hemming. Again, thanks for

your domestic assistance. Martha

[Guest guest]

Martha,

I chuckled all day at your salutation.

I will look forward to helping you/her with her " wardrobe malfunctions " .

Take care and more later, i am on my way to bed.

pam

[Guest guest]

Pam: I, too, am on my way to bed - with a stop for a long soak. I trust all

goes well with our . I heard that she had a period of SIB yesterday.

Andy and I keep trying to tell folks that she has to miss us, want ya'll, and

feel all the confused emotions the rest of us would in her situation.

returns for a few days on Thursday and then heads for South

America to teach for a bit.. I don't look forward to explaining yet again to K.

why she won't see E.L. for awhile. Last time this happened, the elder brat

made it back for Thanksgiving, etc. We'll see. This was so much more

than I'd planned to write. Martha