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Posted

Hi Jackie,

It's weird, that witch/queen character versus the waif/hermit. My mom I can see

had

elements of all of them, but mostly on the waify side. This created a vortex of

sucking

energy that made me always try to keep my distance (though there were some times

when

this was not true). Occasionally that *witch* would come out and the mean-ness

and rage would just stun me. I remember one time, and this was a *waif* thing

when I had a final to ride my bike to (college) in American History. And for

some reason, something was wrong and she chose this time to cry and complain

about something, I remember my dad was with her

(I used to think of him as strong but he was weak with her). The thing that was

wrong was probably something like: no one does anything around here (not true) .

But the point was, I had a major test to go take and did she even realize? Did

my dad? They obviously did not care one bit.

This time, though I started screaming at her and crying because I was so

overwhelmed, you know, and so angry.

Nothing came of it of course, I left and took my final.

Stuff like that I know shaped me into a silent victim, with occasional

outbursts. It sucks; the fear I feel in revealing myself is like going against

a mountain of rock. I can't even articulate or imagine expressing my true

feelings. Perhaps in the written form (or in therapy) .

It all sticks in my chest.

:P

Anyway...for some reason your note reminded me of this.

Take care,

~patricia

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

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Posted
Posted

,

I think you're doing fine. :) Here is my opinion on parenting....long as

it is, sorry!

I just recently read a book on attachment parenting (which I already use,

but the book looked good). It gave this idea that one way to bond with a

child is to hold them and let them know they're special, they're loved, they

were wanted, etc...Then you ask them what THEY want, need, etc...

As an aside, anyone who knows me knows I am very affectionate with my

kids. Not in a weird way, but I hug them and tell them I love them a lot

because I never got that.

So....I said what the book said to about how special they were and then

asked them what they want/need....

Well, I wish it had gone like the book said, but the truth is, my oldest

son (he's 12) got mad at me and said, " I want you to move. I'm trying to

watch TV. " My daughter (she's 9) started laughing and asked if I was

serious, and my youngest son (he's 7) said, " I want something to drink. Can I

go

play on the computer now? "

I walked away and thought, well, they're either bonded well or completely

detatched. LOLOL!

Incidentally, all three of my kids have been to my therapist and she said

they were well adjusted. Whew.

On the flip side, it truly made me think. As a child, more than toys, more

than money, more than a trip somewhere amazing, if someone had asked me

what I wanted, I would have said, 'a mother.' Because the reality of it is

(and I think most people here agree) people who had bpd mothers really had no

mother at all...or would have been better off if they didn't have the body

of a person they called mother in the same room with them. Besides, they

were too busy being waif/hermit versus queen/witch and sucking everyone

around them into their black box of confusing emotions that ran from

suicidality to being overbearing and manipulative and stepping on everyone in

their

world to get what they wanted without regard for others feelings.

I feel like I sound angry and bitter about my mother...and maybe I am, but

maybe I needed to be. I spent a lot of years defending her and in many

other ways, I think I made excuses for her because she was 'sick.' I don't

ever want my kids to feel like I wasn't there for them, but there have been

times where I just haven't been. I may have been in the same room, but I

wasn't there emotionally. I get angry with MYSELF for that even though I am in

therapy and want to overcome it and AM overcoming it. I have never denied

I have issues and need help getting past them. I know in my heart that I'm

not a bad mother, but, you know, I also still worry that I am. Mostly

because my mother would say I was doing it all wrong. That attachment parenting

and no-spanking rules and allowing my kids to have opinions was bad. But I

do what my heart tells me to do and my heart tells me this feels right.

My therapist tells me I am so 'in tune' with my kids. I know when they

aren't eating like they should, if something is bothering them. I watch their

sleeping patterns, what they draw, how they react. I know if there is a the

slightest change in anything and if there is, I question them. At the same

time, I have balance with it. I don't pressure them to tell me things, but

I make myself available to them. I just, basically, do the complete

opposite of what was done to me. I also read a lot of attachment parenting

books

and books on positive parenting. I read and search positive parenting

techniques on the internet. I've gotten some great ideas. This method has been

what fits for me.

I was never allowed to have opinions or different ideas than my mother (or

any adult). I was an extension of whoever I was with,

basically...especially my mother. If I felt differently and said something

(when I was much

older as a teenager and adult because I didn't dare disagree with her as a

child), I was belittled, laughed at, and told I was stupid. You just believe

that's true and don't question it. I can't go to 'that place' when I was a

child too much yet, but when I was older, I couldn't have opinions on major

issues like politics or religion that disagreed with my mother because if I

did, I was wrong. I was immoral. I was not in reality. But she was. She

was moral. She was in reality. The rest of the world was in 'la-la land.' I

remember not long before she died that she was constantly reporting every

rape, murder, and beating scene she saw on CNN. I asked her if we could talk

about something more pleasant. I was sick of depressing CNN. She said that

I was never in touch with reality and I always wanted to pretend

everything was rainbows and puff clouds. Ha!! Hardly, but that was what she

said.

I take my children seriously if they have a problem. I don't belittle them

or tell them their problem isn't important or isn't a real problem -- as

was told to me. I let them have their own opinions and ideas and encourage

them to be themselves....don't like spaghetti because I like it...you like

it because YOU like it and if you don't, that's perfectly okay! If you want

to play soccer, play soccer. If you want to cheer, cheer. If you want to be

in art classes, do art. Tell me. Talk to me. Tell me what YOU want and

what makes you happy (and as seen above, I definitely get told off lol). If it

is within reason and within my power to do let you do what you want, then

that's what we'll do. We don't do things in extremes, but we have

balance....and in this family we actually laugh....A LOT!!!

So....I can look at the few examples I have here...ignoring my mother's

neglect, her rages, her tantrums, her psychosis, her depression, her phobic

panic attacks, her suicidal gestures, her refusal to get psychological help

because she wasn't sick....it was everyone else...and I wonder how in

heaven's name I had any sanity at all in order to BE a parent. I read the

stories of people in this group and I think apparently the offspring of

borderlines learned one thing....how to survive and how to be good parents.

In a message dated 4/13/2010 5:39:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

coyotesun1@... writes:

Thank , for you compassion,

It's funny, I am going through a horrible time with grief; some days I am

okay,

some days I am breaking down, like today...and I took my son to his dad's

so that

I would not over-react to something he does/doesn't do, etc. Because I

want to

protect his feelings. Not saying I am so great; but it seems natural. But

then many

people just don't think past themselves..people just don't think past

themselves..<WBR>

fear that I will hurt my son so I am always feeling bad (I don't mean hurt

him physically

I mean by not doing 'the right thing'), even when he was a baby I would

lay in bed at night

and feel guilt for not doing this or that. I know it is directly related

to my childhood.

**sigh**

thanks again,

~patricia

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

__BPDCentral (DOT) _Li_ (mailto:_@...) _

(mailto:_@..._ (mailto:@...) ) . SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN

YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

_@..._ (mailto:@...) . SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT

CONCERN YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted
Posted

,

I think you're doing fine. :) Here is my opinion on parenting....long as

it is, sorry!

I just recently read a book on attachment parenting (which I already use,

but the book looked good). It gave this idea that one way to bond with a

child is to hold them and let them know they're special, they're loved, they

were wanted, etc...Then you ask them what THEY want, need, etc...

As an aside, anyone who knows me knows I am very affectionate with my

kids. Not in a weird way, but I hug them and tell them I love them a lot

because I never got that.

So....I said what the book said to about how special they were and then

asked them what they want/need....

Well, I wish it had gone like the book said, but the truth is, my oldest

son (he's 12) got mad at me and said, " I want you to move. I'm trying to

watch TV. " My daughter (she's 9) started laughing and asked if I was

serious, and my youngest son (he's 7) said, " I want something to drink. Can I

go

play on the computer now? "

I walked away and thought, well, they're either bonded well or completely

detatched. LOLOL!

Incidentally, all three of my kids have been to my therapist and she said

they were well adjusted. Whew.

On the flip side, it truly made me think. As a child, more than toys, more

than money, more than a trip somewhere amazing, if someone had asked me

what I wanted, I would have said, 'a mother.' Because the reality of it is

(and I think most people here agree) people who had bpd mothers really had no

mother at all...or would have been better off if they didn't have the body

of a person they called mother in the same room with them. Besides, they

were too busy being waif/hermit versus queen/witch and sucking everyone

around them into their black box of confusing emotions that ran from

suicidality to being overbearing and manipulative and stepping on everyone in

their

world to get what they wanted without regard for others feelings.

I feel like I sound angry and bitter about my mother...and maybe I am, but

maybe I needed to be. I spent a lot of years defending her and in many

other ways, I think I made excuses for her because she was 'sick.' I don't

ever want my kids to feel like I wasn't there for them, but there have been

times where I just haven't been. I may have been in the same room, but I

wasn't there emotionally. I get angry with MYSELF for that even though I am in

therapy and want to overcome it and AM overcoming it. I have never denied

I have issues and need help getting past them. I know in my heart that I'm

not a bad mother, but, you know, I also still worry that I am. Mostly

because my mother would say I was doing it all wrong. That attachment parenting

and no-spanking rules and allowing my kids to have opinions was bad. But I

do what my heart tells me to do and my heart tells me this feels right.

My therapist tells me I am so 'in tune' with my kids. I know when they

aren't eating like they should, if something is bothering them. I watch their

sleeping patterns, what they draw, how they react. I know if there is a the

slightest change in anything and if there is, I question them. At the same

time, I have balance with it. I don't pressure them to tell me things, but

I make myself available to them. I just, basically, do the complete

opposite of what was done to me. I also read a lot of attachment parenting

books

and books on positive parenting. I read and search positive parenting

techniques on the internet. I've gotten some great ideas. This method has been

what fits for me.

I was never allowed to have opinions or different ideas than my mother (or

any adult). I was an extension of whoever I was with,

basically...especially my mother. If I felt differently and said something

(when I was much

older as a teenager and adult because I didn't dare disagree with her as a

child), I was belittled, laughed at, and told I was stupid. You just believe

that's true and don't question it. I can't go to 'that place' when I was a

child too much yet, but when I was older, I couldn't have opinions on major

issues like politics or religion that disagreed with my mother because if I

did, I was wrong. I was immoral. I was not in reality. But she was. She

was moral. She was in reality. The rest of the world was in 'la-la land.' I

remember not long before she died that she was constantly reporting every

rape, murder, and beating scene she saw on CNN. I asked her if we could talk

about something more pleasant. I was sick of depressing CNN. She said that

I was never in touch with reality and I always wanted to pretend

everything was rainbows and puff clouds. Ha!! Hardly, but that was what she

said.

I take my children seriously if they have a problem. I don't belittle them

or tell them their problem isn't important or isn't a real problem -- as

was told to me. I let them have their own opinions and ideas and encourage

them to be themselves....don't like spaghetti because I like it...you like

it because YOU like it and if you don't, that's perfectly okay! If you want

to play soccer, play soccer. If you want to cheer, cheer. If you want to be

in art classes, do art. Tell me. Talk to me. Tell me what YOU want and

what makes you happy (and as seen above, I definitely get told off lol). If it

is within reason and within my power to do let you do what you want, then

that's what we'll do. We don't do things in extremes, but we have

balance....and in this family we actually laugh....A LOT!!!

So....I can look at the few examples I have here...ignoring my mother's

neglect, her rages, her tantrums, her psychosis, her depression, her phobic

panic attacks, her suicidal gestures, her refusal to get psychological help

because she wasn't sick....it was everyone else...and I wonder how in

heaven's name I had any sanity at all in order to BE a parent. I read the

stories of people in this group and I think apparently the offspring of

borderlines learned one thing....how to survive and how to be good parents.

In a message dated 4/13/2010 5:39:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

coyotesun1@... writes:

Thank , for you compassion,

It's funny, I am going through a horrible time with grief; some days I am

okay,

some days I am breaking down, like today...and I took my son to his dad's

so that

I would not over-react to something he does/doesn't do, etc. Because I

want to

protect his feelings. Not saying I am so great; but it seems natural. But

then many

people just don't think past themselves..people just don't think past

themselves..<WBR>

fear that I will hurt my son so I am always feeling bad (I don't mean hurt

him physically

I mean by not doing 'the right thing'), even when he was a baby I would

lay in bed at night

and feel guilt for not doing this or that. I know it is directly related

to my childhood.

**sigh**

thanks again,

~patricia

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

__BPDCentral (DOT) _Li_ (mailto:_@...) _

(mailto:_@..._ (mailto:@...) ) . SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN

YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

_@..._ (mailto:@...) . SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT

CONCERN YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

,

I think you're doing fine. :) Here is my opinion on parenting....long as

it is, sorry!

I just recently read a book on attachment parenting (which I already use,

but the book looked good). It gave this idea that one way to bond with a

child is to hold them and let them know they're special, they're loved, they

were wanted, etc...Then you ask them what THEY want, need, etc...

As an aside, anyone who knows me knows I am very affectionate with my

kids. Not in a weird way, but I hug them and tell them I love them a lot

because I never got that.

So....I said what the book said to about how special they were and then

asked them what they want/need....

Well, I wish it had gone like the book said, but the truth is, my oldest

son (he's 12) got mad at me and said, " I want you to move. I'm trying to

watch TV. " My daughter (she's 9) started laughing and asked if I was

serious, and my youngest son (he's 7) said, " I want something to drink. Can I

go

play on the computer now? "

I walked away and thought, well, they're either bonded well or completely

detatched. LOLOL!

Incidentally, all three of my kids have been to my therapist and she said

they were well adjusted. Whew.

On the flip side, it truly made me think. As a child, more than toys, more

than money, more than a trip somewhere amazing, if someone had asked me

what I wanted, I would have said, 'a mother.' Because the reality of it is

(and I think most people here agree) people who had bpd mothers really had no

mother at all...or would have been better off if they didn't have the body

of a person they called mother in the same room with them. Besides, they

were too busy being waif/hermit versus queen/witch and sucking everyone

around them into their black box of confusing emotions that ran from

suicidality to being overbearing and manipulative and stepping on everyone in

their

world to get what they wanted without regard for others feelings.

I feel like I sound angry and bitter about my mother...and maybe I am, but

maybe I needed to be. I spent a lot of years defending her and in many

other ways, I think I made excuses for her because she was 'sick.' I don't

ever want my kids to feel like I wasn't there for them, but there have been

times where I just haven't been. I may have been in the same room, but I

wasn't there emotionally. I get angry with MYSELF for that even though I am in

therapy and want to overcome it and AM overcoming it. I have never denied

I have issues and need help getting past them. I know in my heart that I'm

not a bad mother, but, you know, I also still worry that I am. Mostly

because my mother would say I was doing it all wrong. That attachment parenting

and no-spanking rules and allowing my kids to have opinions was bad. But I

do what my heart tells me to do and my heart tells me this feels right.

My therapist tells me I am so 'in tune' with my kids. I know when they

aren't eating like they should, if something is bothering them. I watch their

sleeping patterns, what they draw, how they react. I know if there is a the

slightest change in anything and if there is, I question them. At the same

time, I have balance with it. I don't pressure them to tell me things, but

I make myself available to them. I just, basically, do the complete

opposite of what was done to me. I also read a lot of attachment parenting

books

and books on positive parenting. I read and search positive parenting

techniques on the internet. I've gotten some great ideas. This method has been

what fits for me.

I was never allowed to have opinions or different ideas than my mother (or

any adult). I was an extension of whoever I was with,

basically...especially my mother. If I felt differently and said something

(when I was much

older as a teenager and adult because I didn't dare disagree with her as a

child), I was belittled, laughed at, and told I was stupid. You just believe

that's true and don't question it. I can't go to 'that place' when I was a

child too much yet, but when I was older, I couldn't have opinions on major

issues like politics or religion that disagreed with my mother because if I

did, I was wrong. I was immoral. I was not in reality. But she was. She

was moral. She was in reality. The rest of the world was in 'la-la land.' I

remember not long before she died that she was constantly reporting every

rape, murder, and beating scene she saw on CNN. I asked her if we could talk

about something more pleasant. I was sick of depressing CNN. She said that

I was never in touch with reality and I always wanted to pretend

everything was rainbows and puff clouds. Ha!! Hardly, but that was what she

said.

I take my children seriously if they have a problem. I don't belittle them

or tell them their problem isn't important or isn't a real problem -- as

was told to me. I let them have their own opinions and ideas and encourage

them to be themselves....don't like spaghetti because I like it...you like

it because YOU like it and if you don't, that's perfectly okay! If you want

to play soccer, play soccer. If you want to cheer, cheer. If you want to be

in art classes, do art. Tell me. Talk to me. Tell me what YOU want and

what makes you happy (and as seen above, I definitely get told off lol). If it

is within reason and within my power to do let you do what you want, then

that's what we'll do. We don't do things in extremes, but we have

balance....and in this family we actually laugh....A LOT!!!

So....I can look at the few examples I have here...ignoring my mother's

neglect, her rages, her tantrums, her psychosis, her depression, her phobic

panic attacks, her suicidal gestures, her refusal to get psychological help

because she wasn't sick....it was everyone else...and I wonder how in

heaven's name I had any sanity at all in order to BE a parent. I read the

stories of people in this group and I think apparently the offspring of

borderlines learned one thing....how to survive and how to be good parents.

In a message dated 4/13/2010 5:39:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

coyotesun1@... writes:

Thank , for you compassion,

It's funny, I am going through a horrible time with grief; some days I am

okay,

some days I am breaking down, like today...and I took my son to his dad's

so that

I would not over-react to something he does/doesn't do, etc. Because I

want to

protect his feelings. Not saying I am so great; but it seems natural. But

then many

people just don't think past themselves..people just don't think past

themselves..<WBR>

fear that I will hurt my son so I am always feeling bad (I don't mean hurt

him physically

I mean by not doing 'the right thing'), even when he was a baby I would

lay in bed at night

and feel guilt for not doing this or that. I know it is directly related

to my childhood.

**sigh**

thanks again,

~patricia

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

__BPDCentral (DOT) _Li_ (mailto:_@...) _

(mailto:_@..._ (mailto:@...) ) . SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN

YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

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------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

_@..._ (mailto:@...) . SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT

CONCERN YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

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Posted
Posted

Thank , for you compassion,

It's funny, I am going through a horrible time with grief; some days I am okay,

some days I am breaking down, like today...and I took my son to his dad's so

that

I would not over-react to something he does/doesn't do, etc. Because I want to

protect his feelings. Not saying I am so great; but it seems natural. But then

many

people just don't think past themselves...But I carry this sort of maybe

unnatural

fear that I will hurt my son so I am always feeling bad (I don't mean hurt him

physically

I mean by not doing 'the right thing'), even when he was a baby I would lay in

bed at night

and feel guilt for not doing this or that. I know it is directly related to my

childhood.

**sigh**

thanks again,

~patricia

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

_@..._ (mailto:@...) . SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT

CONCERN YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which

you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted
Posted

Thank , for you compassion,

It's funny, I am going through a horrible time with grief; some days I am okay,

some days I am breaking down, like today...and I took my son to his dad's so

that

I would not over-react to something he does/doesn't do, etc. Because I want to

protect his feelings. Not saying I am so great; but it seems natural. But then

many

people just don't think past themselves...But I carry this sort of maybe

unnatural

fear that I will hurt my son so I am always feeling bad (I don't mean hurt him

physically

I mean by not doing 'the right thing'), even when he was a baby I would lay in

bed at night

and feel guilt for not doing this or that. I know it is directly related to my

childhood.

**sigh**

thanks again,

~patricia

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

_@..._ (mailto:@...) . SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT

CONCERN YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which

you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted
Posted

My mother was a mixture too, though not the same mixture.....she would not sue

people or put energy into manipulating. But she could be witchy and queenly

when

not depressed and waify hermity. Her and my dad's behavior (of course) shaped

my

entire emotional life. There were times when I felt strong and separate from

all that

but lately I feel it has not really gone away, just a stronger part of me took

over that

is weaker now. And all those lackings I had from them are there, because I

guess, I

have no one really now in my life I can truly depend on. At least when dad was

alive,

in some corner of my mind I knew he was there. And my mom's house was always

*open*

(that is a good part of her, taking her kids in when they need it).

Now it is all on me. Which seems like the new way it is in our country....lots

of single,

lonely people. :P

~p

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

__BPDCentral (DOT) _Li_ (mailto:_@...) _

(mailto:_@..._ (mailto:@...) ) . SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN

YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which

you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted
Posted

My mother was a mixture too, though not the same mixture.....she would not sue

people or put energy into manipulating. But she could be witchy and queenly

when

not depressed and waify hermity. Her and my dad's behavior (of course) shaped

my

entire emotional life. There were times when I felt strong and separate from

all that

but lately I feel it has not really gone away, just a stronger part of me took

over that

is weaker now. And all those lackings I had from them are there, because I

guess, I

have no one really now in my life I can truly depend on. At least when dad was

alive,

in some corner of my mind I knew he was there. And my mom's house was always

*open*

(that is a good part of her, taking her kids in when they need it).

Now it is all on me. Which seems like the new way it is in our country....lots

of single,

lonely people. :P

~p

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

__BPDCentral (DOT) _Li_ (mailto:_@...) _

(mailto:_@..._ (mailto:@...) ) . SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN

YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which

you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

My mother was a mixture too, though not the same mixture.....she would not sue

people or put energy into manipulating. But she could be witchy and queenly

when

not depressed and waify hermity. Her and my dad's behavior (of course) shaped

my

entire emotional life. There were times when I felt strong and separate from

all that

but lately I feel it has not really gone away, just a stronger part of me took

over that

is weaker now. And all those lackings I had from them are there, because I

guess, I

have no one really now in my life I can truly depend on. At least when dad was

alive,

in some corner of my mind I knew he was there. And my mom's house was always

*open*

(that is a good part of her, taking her kids in when they need it).

Now it is all on me. Which seems like the new way it is in our country....lots

of single,

lonely people. :P

~p

Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

thanks ,

my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

witch,

and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

believe

me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

protect me..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

__BPDCentral (DOT) _Li_ (mailto:_@...) _

(mailto:_@..._ (mailto:@...) ) . SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN

YOU; DO

NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which

you

can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/13/10

02:32:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted
Posted

Good for you, ! :) That is AWESOME!

I won't be starting any families any time soon, but I've worried so much

about, what is normal parenting? and sounds like you're doing everything so

wonderfully, I don't doubt myself as much. I'm glad your kids are turning

out great--gives me hope that mine will be just fine! Thanks for sharing.

~Holly

>

>

>

> ,

>

> I think you're doing fine. :) Here is my opinion on parenting....long as

> it is, sorry!

>

> I just recently read a book on attachment parenting (which I already use,

> but the book looked good). It gave this idea that one way to bond with a

> child is to hold them and let them know they're special, they're loved,

> they

> were wanted, etc...Then you ask them what THEY want, need, etc...

>

> As an aside, anyone who knows me knows I am very affectionate with my

> kids. Not in a weird way, but I hug them and tell them I love them a lot

> because I never got that.

>

> So....I said what the book said to about how special they were and then

> asked them what they want/need....

>

> Well, I wish it had gone like the book said, but the truth is, my oldest

> son (he's 12) got mad at me and said, " I want you to move. I'm trying to

> watch TV. " My daughter (she's 9) started laughing and asked if I was

> serious, and my youngest son (he's 7) said, " I want something to drink. Can

> I go

> play on the computer now? "

>

> I walked away and thought, well, they're either bonded well or completely

> detatched. LOLOL!

> Incidentally, all three of my kids have been to my therapist and she said

> they were well adjusted. Whew.

>

> On the flip side, it truly made me think. As a child, more than toys, more

> than money, more than a trip somewhere amazing, if someone had asked me

> what I wanted, I would have said, 'a mother.' Because the reality of it is

> (and I think most people here agree) people who had bpd mothers really had

> no

> mother at all...or would have been better off if they didn't have the body

> of a person they called mother in the same room with them. Besides, they

> were too busy being waif/hermit versus queen/witch and sucking everyone

> around them into their black box of confusing emotions that ran from

> suicidality to being overbearing and manipulative and stepping on everyone

> in their

> world to get what they wanted without regard for others feelings.

>

> I feel like I sound angry and bitter about my mother...and maybe I am, but

> maybe I needed to be. I spent a lot of years defending her and in many

> other ways, I think I made excuses for her because she was 'sick.' I don't

> ever want my kids to feel like I wasn't there for them, but there have been

>

> times where I just haven't been. I may have been in the same room, but I

> wasn't there emotionally. I get angry with MYSELF for that even though I am

> in

> therapy and want to overcome it and AM overcoming it. I have never denied

> I have issues and need help getting past them. I know in my heart that I'm

> not a bad mother, but, you know, I also still worry that I am. Mostly

> because my mother would say I was doing it all wrong. That attachment

> parenting

> and no-spanking rules and allowing my kids to have opinions was bad. But I

> do what my heart tells me to do and my heart tells me this feels right.

>

> My therapist tells me I am so 'in tune' with my kids. I know when they

> aren't eating like they should, if something is bothering them. I watch

> their

> sleeping patterns, what they draw, how they react. I know if there is a the

>

> slightest change in anything and if there is, I question them. At the same

> time, I have balance with it. I don't pressure them to tell me things, but

> I make myself available to them. I just, basically, do the complete

> opposite of what was done to me. I also read a lot of attachment parenting

> books

> and books on positive parenting. I read and search positive parenting

> techniques on the internet. I've gotten some great ideas. This method has

> been

> what fits for me.

>

> I was never allowed to have opinions or different ideas than my mother (or

> any adult). I was an extension of whoever I was with,

> basically...especially my mother. If I felt differently and said something

> (when I was much

> older as a teenager and adult because I didn't dare disagree with her as a

> child), I was belittled, laughed at, and told I was stupid. You just

> believe

> that's true and don't question it. I can't go to 'that place' when I was a

> child too much yet, but when I was older, I couldn't have opinions on major

>

> issues like politics or religion that disagreed with my mother because if I

>

> did, I was wrong. I was immoral. I was not in reality. But she was. She

> was moral. She was in reality. The rest of the world was in 'la-la land.' I

>

> remember not long before she died that she was constantly reporting every

> rape, murder, and beating scene she saw on CNN. I asked her if we could

> talk

> about something more pleasant. I was sick of depressing CNN. She said that

> I was never in touch with reality and I always wanted to pretend

> everything was rainbows and puff clouds. Ha!! Hardly, but that was what she

> said.

>

> I take my children seriously if they have a problem. I don't belittle them

> or tell them their problem isn't important or isn't a real problem -- as

> was told to me. I let them have their own opinions and ideas and encourage

> them to be themselves....don't like spaghetti because I like it...you like

> it because YOU like it and if you don't, that's perfectly okay! If you want

>

> to play soccer, play soccer. If you want to cheer, cheer. If you want to be

>

> in art classes, do art. Tell me. Talk to me. Tell me what YOU want and

> what makes you happy (and as seen above, I definitely get told off lol). If

> it

> is within reason and within my power to do let you do what you want, then

> that's what we'll do. We don't do things in extremes, but we have

> balance....and in this family we actually laugh....A LOT!!!

>

> So....I can look at the few examples I have here...ignoring my mother's

> neglect, her rages, her tantrums, her psychosis, her depression, her phobic

>

> panic attacks, her suicidal gestures, her refusal to get psychological help

>

> because she wasn't sick....it was everyone else...and I wonder how in

> heaven's name I had any sanity at all in order to BE a parent. I read the

> stories of people in this group and I think apparently the offspring of

> borderlines learned one thing....how to survive and how to be good parents.

>

>

>

> In a message dated 4/13/2010 5:39:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> coyotesun1@... <coyotesun1%40earthlink.net> writes:

>

> Thank , for you compassion,

> It's funny, I am going through a horrible time with grief; some days I am

> okay,

> some days I am breaking down, like today...and I took my son to his dad's

> so that

> I would not over-react to something he does/doesn't do, etc. Because I

> want to

> protect his feelings. Not saying I am so great; but it seems natural. But

> then many

> people just don't think past themselves..people just don't think past

> themselves..<WBR>

> fear that I will hurt my son so I am always feeling bad (I don't mean hurt

> him physically

> I mean by not doing 'the right thing'), even when he was a baby I would

> lay in bed at night

> and feel guilt for not doing this or that. I know it is directly related

> to my childhood.

> **sigh**

> thanks again,

> ~patricia

> Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

> means anything

>

> thanks ,

>

> my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

> witch,

> and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

> her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

> believe

> me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

> protect me..

>

> Jackie

>

> Hi Jackie,

> What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

> KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

> in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

> over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

> Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

> ~patricia

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> __BPDCentral (DOT) _Li_ (mailto:_@...<_%40BPDCentral.Lis>)

> _

> (mailto:_@... <_%40BPDCentral.Lis>_ (mailto:

> @... <%40BPDCentral.com>) ) . SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT

> CONCERN

> YOU; DO

> NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

> () for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

> Borderline

> Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

> can

> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

> and the SWOE Workbook.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Good for you, ! :) That is AWESOME!

I won't be starting any families any time soon, but I've worried so much

about, what is normal parenting? and sounds like you're doing everything so

wonderfully, I don't doubt myself as much. I'm glad your kids are turning

out great--gives me hope that mine will be just fine! Thanks for sharing.

~Holly

>

>

>

> ,

>

> I think you're doing fine. :) Here is my opinion on parenting....long as

> it is, sorry!

>

> I just recently read a book on attachment parenting (which I already use,

> but the book looked good). It gave this idea that one way to bond with a

> child is to hold them and let them know they're special, they're loved,

> they

> were wanted, etc...Then you ask them what THEY want, need, etc...

>

> As an aside, anyone who knows me knows I am very affectionate with my

> kids. Not in a weird way, but I hug them and tell them I love them a lot

> because I never got that.

>

> So....I said what the book said to about how special they were and then

> asked them what they want/need....

>

> Well, I wish it had gone like the book said, but the truth is, my oldest

> son (he's 12) got mad at me and said, " I want you to move. I'm trying to

> watch TV. " My daughter (she's 9) started laughing and asked if I was

> serious, and my youngest son (he's 7) said, " I want something to drink. Can

> I go

> play on the computer now? "

>

> I walked away and thought, well, they're either bonded well or completely

> detatched. LOLOL!

> Incidentally, all three of my kids have been to my therapist and she said

> they were well adjusted. Whew.

>

> On the flip side, it truly made me think. As a child, more than toys, more

> than money, more than a trip somewhere amazing, if someone had asked me

> what I wanted, I would have said, 'a mother.' Because the reality of it is

> (and I think most people here agree) people who had bpd mothers really had

> no

> mother at all...or would have been better off if they didn't have the body

> of a person they called mother in the same room with them. Besides, they

> were too busy being waif/hermit versus queen/witch and sucking everyone

> around them into their black box of confusing emotions that ran from

> suicidality to being overbearing and manipulative and stepping on everyone

> in their

> world to get what they wanted without regard for others feelings.

>

> I feel like I sound angry and bitter about my mother...and maybe I am, but

> maybe I needed to be. I spent a lot of years defending her and in many

> other ways, I think I made excuses for her because she was 'sick.' I don't

> ever want my kids to feel like I wasn't there for them, but there have been

>

> times where I just haven't been. I may have been in the same room, but I

> wasn't there emotionally. I get angry with MYSELF for that even though I am

> in

> therapy and want to overcome it and AM overcoming it. I have never denied

> I have issues and need help getting past them. I know in my heart that I'm

> not a bad mother, but, you know, I also still worry that I am. Mostly

> because my mother would say I was doing it all wrong. That attachment

> parenting

> and no-spanking rules and allowing my kids to have opinions was bad. But I

> do what my heart tells me to do and my heart tells me this feels right.

>

> My therapist tells me I am so 'in tune' with my kids. I know when they

> aren't eating like they should, if something is bothering them. I watch

> their

> sleeping patterns, what they draw, how they react. I know if there is a the

>

> slightest change in anything and if there is, I question them. At the same

> time, I have balance with it. I don't pressure them to tell me things, but

> I make myself available to them. I just, basically, do the complete

> opposite of what was done to me. I also read a lot of attachment parenting

> books

> and books on positive parenting. I read and search positive parenting

> techniques on the internet. I've gotten some great ideas. This method has

> been

> what fits for me.

>

> I was never allowed to have opinions or different ideas than my mother (or

> any adult). I was an extension of whoever I was with,

> basically...especially my mother. If I felt differently and said something

> (when I was much

> older as a teenager and adult because I didn't dare disagree with her as a

> child), I was belittled, laughed at, and told I was stupid. You just

> believe

> that's true and don't question it. I can't go to 'that place' when I was a

> child too much yet, but when I was older, I couldn't have opinions on major

>

> issues like politics or religion that disagreed with my mother because if I

>

> did, I was wrong. I was immoral. I was not in reality. But she was. She

> was moral. She was in reality. The rest of the world was in 'la-la land.' I

>

> remember not long before she died that she was constantly reporting every

> rape, murder, and beating scene she saw on CNN. I asked her if we could

> talk

> about something more pleasant. I was sick of depressing CNN. She said that

> I was never in touch with reality and I always wanted to pretend

> everything was rainbows and puff clouds. Ha!! Hardly, but that was what she

> said.

>

> I take my children seriously if they have a problem. I don't belittle them

> or tell them their problem isn't important or isn't a real problem -- as

> was told to me. I let them have their own opinions and ideas and encourage

> them to be themselves....don't like spaghetti because I like it...you like

> it because YOU like it and if you don't, that's perfectly okay! If you want

>

> to play soccer, play soccer. If you want to cheer, cheer. If you want to be

>

> in art classes, do art. Tell me. Talk to me. Tell me what YOU want and

> what makes you happy (and as seen above, I definitely get told off lol). If

> it

> is within reason and within my power to do let you do what you want, then

> that's what we'll do. We don't do things in extremes, but we have

> balance....and in this family we actually laugh....A LOT!!!

>

> So....I can look at the few examples I have here...ignoring my mother's

> neglect, her rages, her tantrums, her psychosis, her depression, her phobic

>

> panic attacks, her suicidal gestures, her refusal to get psychological help

>

> because she wasn't sick....it was everyone else...and I wonder how in

> heaven's name I had any sanity at all in order to BE a parent. I read the

> stories of people in this group and I think apparently the offspring of

> borderlines learned one thing....how to survive and how to be good parents.

>

>

>

> In a message dated 4/13/2010 5:39:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> coyotesun1@... <coyotesun1%40earthlink.net> writes:

>

> Thank , for you compassion,

> It's funny, I am going through a horrible time with grief; some days I am

> okay,

> some days I am breaking down, like today...and I took my son to his dad's

> so that

> I would not over-react to something he does/doesn't do, etc. Because I

> want to

> protect his feelings. Not saying I am so great; but it seems natural. But

> then many

> people just don't think past themselves..people just don't think past

> themselves..<WBR>

> fear that I will hurt my son so I am always feeling bad (I don't mean hurt

> him physically

> I mean by not doing 'the right thing'), even when he was a baby I would

> lay in bed at night

> and feel guilt for not doing this or that. I know it is directly related

> to my childhood.

> **sigh**

> thanks again,

> ~patricia

> Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

> means anything

>

> thanks ,

>

> my nada is very self centered, that's the queen in her..she's also a

> witch,

> and everything was my fault, so probably one of the reasons I didn't tell

> her at the time when it happed...I knew she'd blame me...or just not

> believe

> me...that's when I turn inside myself..realizing I was the only one who'd

> protect me..

>

> Jackie

>

> Hi Jackie,

> What you describe about how you changed during the time you were in

> KY is so messed up; your nada didn't even ask you what was up. I am so

> in touch with my son, even when he is just quiet I ask him. I probably

> over do it because I was so ignored as a child.

> Sorry..for those bad times you went through,

> ~patricia

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> __BPDCentral (DOT) _Li_ (mailto:_@...<_%40BPDCentral.Lis>)

> _

> (mailto:_@... <_%40BPDCentral.Lis>_ (mailto:

> @... <%40BPDCentral.com>) ) . SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT

> CONCERN

> YOU; DO

> NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

> () for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the

> Borderline

> Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

> can

> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

> and the SWOE Workbook.

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Posted
Posted

Becky,I've thought the same thing of my nada: if I hadn't been born to her,we

would have never had any kind of relationship whatsoever.We have nothing in

common.We wouldn't even have been acquaintances,let alone friends!

Nobody could blame you for wanting to go NC with people who treated

you like this.That's awful that you were forced to marry a boyfriend who took

advantage of you.I agree that was date rape.What your father said to you was

outrageous: Marry this guy or be an old maid/ servant to your parents.

And all the blaming of you that you wrote about in your post,all the

disrespect.

It's a shame that your father couldn't drop his ego at the end and

reach for true grace and humility instead.The " judgment seat of Christ " indeed!

As if Jesus would demand that you beg him for forgiveness--for what? For having

obeyed him by marrying under those awful circumstances? For doing the right

thing and contacting him when he was dying? I'm glad you don't have any

regrets.You tried,then you did what you had to do to protect yourself from being

abused by two people who willfully refused to get a clue,sounds to me.

> >

> > Doug,wow,I can relate to alot of this.

> >

> > The " adopting " of surrogate children while I stood by as chopped

liver,oh yes.Nada was a grammar school teacher and she did play favorites.So and

so was this great kid,the ideal of kid--the kind of kid she'd always

wanted.There were outtings and visits to our home.Funny that,when some of these

dream children grew up and contacted her (remembering how wonderful she was) as

young adults with an ACTUAL problem they wanted her to advise on,she made

herself air into which she vanished.

>

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Posted
Posted

my mother was mostly queen/witch, but would become waif when her other

tricks weren't working...she'd burst into tears if she thought it meant

getting her way

Jackie

My mother was a mixture too, though not the same mixture.....she would not

sue

people or put energy into manipulating. But she could be witchy and queenly

when

not depressed and waify hermity. Her and my dad's behavior (of course)

shaped my

entire emotional life. There were times when I felt strong and separate

from all that

but lately I feel it has not really gone away, just a stronger part of me

took over that

is weaker now. And all those lackings I had from them are there, because I

guess, I

have no one really now in my life I can truly depend on. At least when dad

was alive,

in some corner of my mind I knew he was there. And my mom's house was

always *open*

(that is a good part of her, taking her kids in when they need it).

Now it is all on me. Which seems like the new way it is in our

country....lots of single,

lonely people. :P

~p

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Posted
Posted

Attachment parenting sounds wonderful; please post the title of the books you

have used and are there any websites?

thank you, Connie

>

>

> ,

>

> I think you're doing fine. :) Here is my opinion on parenting....long as

> it is, sorry!

>

> I just recently read a book on attachment parenting (which I already use,

> but the book looked good). It gave this idea that one way to bond with a

> child is to hold them and let them know they're special, they're loved, they

> were wanted, etc...Then you ask them what THEY want, need, etc...

>

> As an aside, anyone who knows me knows I am very affectionate with my

> kids. Not in a weird way, but I hug them and tell them I love them a lot

> because I never got that.

>

> So....I said what the book said to about how special they were and then

> asked them what they want/need....

>

> Well, I wish it had gone like the book said, but the truth is, my oldest

> son (he's 12) got mad at me and said, " I want you to move. I'm trying to

> watch TV. " My daughter (she's 9) started laughing and asked if I was

> serious, and my youngest son (he's 7) said, " I want something to drink. Can I

go

> play on the computer now? "

>

> I walked away and thought, well, they're either bonded well or completely

> detatched. LOLOL!

> Incidentally, all three of my kids have been to my therapist and she said

> they were well adjusted. Whew.

>

> On the flip side, it truly made me think. As a child, more than toys, more

> than money, more than a trip somewhere amazing, if someone had asked me

> what I wanted, I would have said, 'a mother.' Because the reality of it is

> (and I think most people here agree) people who had bpd mothers really had no

> mother at all...or would have been better off if they didn't have the body

> of a person they called mother in the same room with them. Besides, they

> were too busy being waif/hermit versus queen/witch and sucking everyone

> around them into their black box of confusing emotions that ran from

> suicidality to being overbearing and manipulative and stepping on everyone in

their

> world to get what they wanted without regard for others feelings.

>

> I feel like I sound angry and bitter about my mother...and maybe I am, but

> maybe I needed to be. I spent a lot of years defending her and in many

> other ways, I think I made excuses for her because she was 'sick.' I don't

> ever want my kids to feel like I wasn't there for them, but there have been

> times where I just haven't been. I may have been in the same room, but I

> wasn't there emotionally. I get angry with MYSELF for that even though I am

in

> therapy and want to overcome it and AM overcoming it. I have never denied

> I have issues and need help getting past them. I know in my heart that I'm

> not a bad mother, but, you know, I also still worry that I am. Mostly

> because my mother would say I was doing it all wrong. That attachment

parenting

> and no-spanking rules and allowing my kids to have opinions was bad. But I

> do what my heart tells me to do and my heart tells me this feels right.

>

> My therapist tells me I am so 'in tune' with my kids. I know when they

> aren't eating like they should, if something is bothering them. I watch their

> sleeping patterns, what they draw, how they react. I know if there is a the

> slightest change in anything and if there is, I question them. At the same

> time, I have balance with it. I don't pressure them to tell me things, but

> I make myself available to them. I just, basically, do the complete

> opposite of what was done to me. I also read a lot of attachment parenting

books

> and books on positive parenting. I read and search positive parenting

> techniques on the internet. I've gotten some great ideas. This method has

been

> what fits for me.

>

> I was never allowed to have opinions or different ideas than my mother (or

> any adult). I was an extension of whoever I was with,

> basically...especially my mother. If I felt differently and said something

(when I was much

> older as a teenager and adult because I didn't dare disagree with her as a

> child), I was belittled, laughed at, and told I was stupid. You just believe

> that's true and don't question it. I can't go to 'that place' when I was a

> child too much yet, but when I was older, I couldn't have opinions on major

> issues like politics or religion that disagreed with my mother because if I

> did, I was wrong. I was immoral. I was not in reality. But she was. She

> was moral. She was in reality. The rest of the world was in 'la-la land.' I

> remember not long before she died that she was constantly reporting every

> rape, murder, and beating scene she saw on CNN. I asked her if we could talk

> about something more pleasant. I was sick of depressing CNN. She said that

> I was never in touch with reality and I always wanted to pretend

> everything was rainbows and puff clouds. Ha!! Hardly, but that was what she

said.

>

> I take my children seriously if they have a problem. I don't belittle them

> or tell them their problem isn't important or isn't a real problem -- as

> was told to me. I let them have their own opinions and ideas and encourage

> them to be themselves....don't like spaghetti because I like it...you like

> it because YOU like it and if you don't, that's perfectly okay! If you want

> to play soccer, play soccer. If you want to cheer, cheer. If you want to be

> in art classes, do art. Tell me. Talk to me. Tell me what YOU want and

> what makes you happy (and as seen above, I definitely get told off lol). If

it

> is within reason and within my power to do let you do what you want, then

> that's what we'll do. We don't do things in extremes, but we have

> balance....and in this family we actually laugh....A LOT!!!

>

> So....I can look at the few examples I have here...ignoring my mother's

> neglect, her rages, her tantrums, her psychosis, her depression, her phobic

> panic attacks, her suicidal gestures, her refusal to get psychological help

> because she wasn't sick....it was everyone else...and I wonder how in

> heaven's name I had any sanity at all in order to BE a parent. I read the

> stories of people in this group and I think apparently the offspring of

> borderlines learned one thing....how to survive and how to be good parents.

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
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What you describe is actually called Spiritual Abuse. And frankly just

because someone teaches Sunday School, or even preaches, does not make

them Christian.

The classic case of Spiritual Abuse I remember from a counseling class

was a little sliding down the banister and gets hurt. Instead of

comforting him, mom says, now I wonder if Jesus would have wanted you to

climb on the bannister.

Using faith as a bludgeon to control you, rather than as a conduit to

teach you, is spiritual abuse. Some people will do some pretty awful

things in the name of, or under the guise of, their faith. Jesus

himself never beat people over the head to bring the to faith. He

taught, and loved, and patiently directed.

All things that , of course, BP s would never think of.

It hurts as much as any other abuse, and damages our ability to form our

own faith based relationships.

Doug

> >

> > Doug,wow,I can relate to alot of this.

> >

> > The " adopting " of surrogate children while I stood by as chopped

liver,oh yes.Nada was a grammar school teacher and she did play

favorites.So and so was this great kid,the ideal of kid--the kind of kid

she'd always wanted.There were outtings and visits to our home.Funny

that,when some of these dream children grew up and contacted her

(remembering how wonderful she was) as young adults with an ACTUAL

problem they wanted her to advise on,she made herself air into which she

vanished.

>

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Posted
Posted

,

Thank you for listening to me and validating my side of the story.

I think the hardest part is not measuring up to our BPD parents that had

unrealistic expectations of us because of some entitlement that they felt they

deserved. They would shame me when I brought up my grievances of them, telling

me they would never talk to their parents like I did when confronting them with

their treatment of me. They just said; " that was in the past and it is time to

move on. " " Today is another day. " Or " you need to start building bridges

rather than bringing up all this stuff and destroying our relationship. " They

always thought they could put new wine into old wine bags and come out with

something other than vinegar. It won't happen.

Now my mother would like to have me take care of her. She may need someone

to take care of her. But I can't be that person. I depend on my husband. My

husband doesn't want to live around that lady, and I don't want to either, so I

don't blame him. My kids would totally grow resentful of all the manipulations

or totally torment her, which would make me totally crazy trying to control

everyone so the we could be a happy family. I have spent so much time raising

the family that I want and love that to have her come in would ruin all my good

work. It is sad to say that, because she sees herself as perfect....she told me

that one day, " My brothers all think I am perfect. " I told her that I wouldn't

make that mistake. She just kinda looked at me and huffed.

Well I wish things were different. But I am really glad I am not codependent

with her....well not so much as to be unrealistic about the abuse that would

continue to be mine if I didn't say " NO " . I do feel obsessed about how she is

doing and I feel guilty that I am having a good time while she may not be having

a good time right now. (Part of the message, " why don't you stop having so much

fun so someone else can have some? " that she used to say to me when I was a

teenager. Part of the FOG.)

But I don't feel as upside down and I am not talking about my mother to my

kids all the time like I was when we had LC. My husband said, " I don't want to

live with her, and she is " contaminating " my life through the phone, mail and

email....and you are letting her. " This was true, I was letting her abuse me so

that I didn't abandon her...but I abandoned everyone and especially myself in

this family. So this is why I have decided to have NC. I thought if another

woman was exerting her control over my husband like my mother is over me, I

would be outraged if he didn't stop talking to her. I thought it is either him

that I am married to or her...but it can't be both.

Becky

> > >

> > > Doug,wow,I can relate to alot of this.

> > >

> > > The " adopting " of surrogate children while I stood by as chopped

liver,oh yes.Nada was a grammar school teacher and she did play favorites.So and

so was this great kid,the ideal of kid--the kind of kid she'd always

wanted.There were outtings and visits to our home.Funny that,when some of these

dream children grew up and contacted her (remembering how wonderful she was) as

young adults with an ACTUAL problem they wanted her to advise on,she made

herself air into which she vanished.

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

It IS wonderful!! I'm a big fan of attachment parenting/attachment caregiving.

And I give HUGE kudos to the moms here who are talking about it! Yay!

Connie...I just got into this part of the conversation, and I am *not* a mom. I

am, though, a professional nanny...which is definitely not a mom, but has given

me a lot of experience in having to discipline/help raise lots of children as a

very involved part of the parenting team over the past 20+ years.

Some good books to look at on attachment parenting and similar styles are:

" The Attachment Parenting Book " by and Martha Sears (Oh, but how I love

Dr. Sears!)

" Playful Parenting " by Lawrence Cohen...I really love this one, so many great

ways to playfully help kids through things that would often become battles and

power struggles!

" Parenting from the Inside Out " by Siegel and Hartzell

There is some good info in " The Happiest Toddler on the Block " , too, to mix into

things, especially about understanding how a toddler percieves the world and how

to validate their feelings for them so they can better cope with their emotions.

I also like some of the stuff in the Love and Logic series...one of the best

tips I got from that works with ALL people. When my little ones are tantruming

over this or that, I will hold them if they want comfort (because a lot of

people don't want to be abandoned when their emotions are totally out of

control...that's scary!). And I'll validate that they are emotional " You're

very angry/scared/sad/upset right now! " But I won't continue to discuss with

them the issue or to answer questions or to respond to what they are wailing.

Love and Logic gave me the best tip...to just calmly and quietly say " When your

voice sounds like mine, we can talk about it " The child knows he/she isn't

being ignored...but I'm also not engaging in the tantrum (and thus teaching them

that a tantrum gets results). I'm not fighting with them to suppress their

feelings, I'm not telling them they are wrong to be angry or upset. I'm

comforting them (holding, hugging, etc if

they want it...not all kids do), I'm remaining a calm port for them, and I'm

setting up a healthy boundary for behaviour without recriminations. I've found

that this tactic translates well into dealing with adults, too. I might not say

to an adult " when your voice sounds like mine we can talk about it " but if I

operate on that principle then *I* remember to not engage into the drama or

tantrum the other adult is throwing out there and thus avoid escalating the

situation. That was a huge thing for me to learn!

There are tons of other books, I'm sure that other people will add to that list.

I also have to say...I don't subscribe to rigidly adhering to any one method. I

mix tips and tricks and information from a lot of sources, although almost all

of them are on the attachment parenting/positive discipline end of the spectrum.

I also critically read a lot of research on child development to guide what I

do, mostly so that if/when a parent asks for my suggestions or advice I can back

it up with why I'm suggesting this or that solution. And usually my best advice

is: At any age, there is no substitute for KNOWING your child...no method, no

tip, no trick, nothing can make up for not paying attention to who your child is

and knowing them. And if you do that, then when you read any parenting book or

advice your gut is going to be pretty good at pulling out the things that will

work with YOUR child.

Ninera

>

> Subject: Re: If everything means nothing then nothing

means anything

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 11:29 AM

> Attachment parenting sounds

> wonderful; please post the title of the books you have used

> and are there any websites?

>

> thank you, Connie

>

>

> >

> > 

> > ,

> > 

> > I think you're doing fine.  :)  Here is my

> opinion on parenting....long as

> > it is, sorry!

> > 

> > I just recently read a book  on attachment

> parenting (which I already use,

> > but the book looked good). It  gave this idea

> that one way to bond with a

> > child is to hold them and let them  know they're

> special, they're loved, they

> > were wanted, etc...Then you ask them  what THEY

> want, need, etc...

> > 

> > As an aside, anyone who  knows me knows I am very

> affectionate with my

> > kids. Not in a weird way, but  I hug them and

> tell them I love them a lot

> > because I never got  that.

> > 

> > So....I said what the book  said to about how

> special they were and then

> > asked them what they  want/need....

> > 

> > Well, I wish it had gone like  the book said, but

> the truth is, my oldest

> > son (he's 12) got mad at me and  said, " I want

> you to move.  I'm trying to

> > watch TV. "   My daughter  (she's 9) started

> laughing and asked if I was

> > serious, and my youngest  son (he's 7) said, " I

> want something to drink. Can I go

> > play on  the computer now? "

> > 

> > I walked away and thought,  well, they're either

> bonded well or completely

> > detatched. LOLOL!

> > Incidentally, all three of my  kids have been to

> my therapist and she said

> > they were well adjusted. Whew.

> > 

> > On the flip side, it truly  made me think. As a

> child, more than toys, more

> > than money, more than  a trip somewhere amazing,

> if someone had asked me

> > what I wanted, I would have  said, 'a mother.'

> Because the reality of it is

> > (and I think most people here  agree) people who

> had bpd mothers really had no

> > mother at all...or would have  been better off if

> they didn't have the body

> > of a person they called mother in  the same room

> with them. Besides, they

> > were too busy being waif/hermit  versus

> queen/witch and sucking everyone

> > around them into their black box of  confusing

> emotions that ran from

> > suicidality to being overbearing and 

> manipulative and stepping on everyone in their

> > world to get what they  wanted without regard for

> others feelings.

> > 

> > I feel like I sound angry and  bitter about my

> mother...and maybe I am, but

> > maybe I needed to be. I spent a lot  of years

> defending her and in many

> > other ways, I think I made excuses for her 

> because she was 'sick.' I don't

> > ever want my kids to feel like I wasn't there 

> for them, but there have been

> > times where I just haven't been. I may have been 

> in the same room, but I

> > wasn't there emotionally. I get angry with MYSELF

> for  that even though I am in

> > therapy and want to overcome it and AM

> overcoming  it.  I have never denied

> > I have issues and need help getting past  them. I

> know in my heart that I'm

> > not a bad mother, but, you know, I also  still

> worry that I am. Mostly

> > because my mother would say I  was doing it all

> wrong. That attachment parenting

> > and no-spanking rules and  allowing my kids to

> have opinions was bad. But I

> > do what my heart tells me to do  and my heart

> tells me this feels right.

> > 

> > My therapist tells me I  am so 'in tune' with my

> kids. I know when they

> > aren't eating like they should,  if something is

> bothering them. I watch their

> > sleeping patterns, what they draw,  how they

> react. I know if there is a the

> > slightest change in anything and if  there is, I

> question them. At the same

> > time, I have balance with it. I don't  pressure

> them to tell me things, but

> > I make myself available to them.  I  just,

> basically, do the complete

> > opposite of what was done to me. I also read a 

> lot of attachment parenting books

> > and books on positive parenting. I read and 

> search positive parenting

> > techniques on the internet. I've gotten some

> great  ideas. This method has been

> > what fits for me.

> > 

> > I was never allowed to have  opinions or

> different ideas than my mother (or

> > any adult). I was an extension of  whoever I was

> with,

> > basically...especially my mother. If I felt

> differently and  said something (when I was much

> > older as a teenager and adult because I didn't 

> dare disagree with her as a

> > child), I was belittled, laughed at, and told I

> was  stupid. You just believe

> > that's true and don't question it. I can't go to

> 'that  place' when I was a

> > child too much yet, but when I was older, I couldn't

> have  opinions on major

> > issues like politics or religion that disagreed with

> my mother  because if I

> > did, I was wrong. I was immoral. I was not in reality.

> But she was.  She

> > was moral. She was in reality. The rest of the world

> was in 'la-la  land.'  I

> > remember not long before she died that she was 

> constantly reporting every

> > rape, murder, and beating scene she saw on CNN. 

> I asked her if we could talk

> > about something more pleasant. I was  sick of

> depressing CNN. She said that

> > I was never in touch with reality and  I always

> wanted to pretend

> > everything was rainbows and puff clouds. Ha!! 

> Hardly, but that was what she said.

> > 

> > I take my  children seriously if they have a

> problem. I don't belittle them

> > or tell them  their problem isn't important or

> isn't a real problem -- as

> > was told to me. I  let them have their own

> opinions and ideas and encourage

> > them to be  themselves....don't like spaghetti

> because I like it...you like

> > it because YOU  like it and if you don't, that's

> perfectly okay! If you want

> > to play soccer,  play soccer. If you want to

> cheer, cheer. If you want to be

> > in art classes, do  art. Tell me. Talk to me.

> Tell me what YOU want and

> > what makes you happy (and as  seen above, I

> definitely get told off lol). If it

> > is within reason and within my  power to do let

> you do what you want, then

> > that's what we'll do. We don't do  things in

> extremes, but we have

> > balance....and in this family we actually 

> laugh....A LOT!!!

> > 

> > So....I can look at the few  examples I have

> here...ignoring my mother's

> > neglect, her  rages, her tantrums, her psychosis,

> her depression, her  phobic

> > panic attacks, her suicidal gestures, her refusal to

> get  psychological help

> > because she wasn't sick....it was everyone else...and

> I  wonder how in

> > heaven's name I had any sanity at all in order to BE a

> parent. I  read the

> > stories of people in this group and I think apparently

> the offspring of 

> > borderlines learned one thing....how to survive and

> how to be good  parents.

> > 

> >

> >

> > 

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

> SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE

> GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call

> 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to

> “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and

> “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can

> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

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Posted
Posted

I second the recommendations for " The Attachment Parenting Book " , " Parenting

from the Inside Out " and especially the " Love and Logic " series. Cline

and Jim Fay have helped me tremendously!

I'm also reading " Thinking Parent, Thinking Child " by Myrna Shure - which helps

teach children critical thinking skills and how to solve difficult problems,

rather than to react to them emotionally. Considering my nada reacted

emotionally to everything, this is providing me with great counter-examples for

dealing with my kids.

I completely agree with you, Ninera - different things work for different kids.

My kids are *very* different, and what works with one does not work with the

other most of the time. They certainly keep me on my toes!

-

>

> It IS wonderful!! I'm a big fan of attachment parenting/attachment

caregiving. And I give HUGE kudos to the moms here who are talking about it!

Yay!

>

> Connie...I just got into this part of the conversation, and I am *not* a mom.

I am, though, a professional nanny...which is definitely not a mom, but has

given me a lot of experience in having to discipline/help raise lots of children

as a very involved part of the parenting team over the past 20+ years.

>

> Some good books to look at on attachment parenting and similar styles are:

>

> " The Attachment Parenting Book " by and Martha Sears (Oh, but how I

love Dr. Sears!)

>

> " Playful Parenting " by Lawrence Cohen...I really love this one, so many great

ways to playfully help kids through things that would often become battles and

power struggles!

>

> " Parenting from the Inside Out " by Siegel and Hartzell

>

> There is some good info in " The Happiest Toddler on the Block " , too, to mix

into things, especially about understanding how a toddler percieves the world

and how to validate their feelings for them so they can better cope with their

emotions.

>

> I also like some of the stuff in the Love and Logic series...one of the best

tips I got from that works with ALL people. When my little ones are tantruming

over this or that, I will hold them if they want comfort (because a lot of

people don't want to be abandoned when their emotions are totally out of

control...that's scary!). And I'll validate that they are emotional " You're

very angry/scared/sad/upset right now! " But I won't continue to discuss with

them the issue or to answer questions or to respond to what they are wailing.

Love and Logic gave me the best tip...to just calmly and quietly say " When your

voice sounds like mine, we can talk about it " The child knows he/she isn't

being ignored...but I'm also not engaging in the tantrum (and thus teaching them

that a tantrum gets results). I'm not fighting with them to suppress their

feelings, I'm not telling them they are wrong to be angry or upset. I'm

comforting them (holding, hugging, etc if

> they want it...not all kids do), I'm remaining a calm port for them, and I'm

setting up a healthy boundary for behaviour without recriminations. I've found

that this tactic translates well into dealing with adults, too. I might not say

to an adult " when your voice sounds like mine we can talk about it " but if I

operate on that principle then *I* remember to not engage into the drama or

tantrum the other adult is throwing out there and thus avoid escalating the

situation. That was a huge thing for me to learn!

>

> There are tons of other books, I'm sure that other people will add to that

list. I also have to say...I don't subscribe to rigidly adhering to any one

method. I mix tips and tricks and information from a lot of sources, although

almost all of them are on the attachment parenting/positive discipline end of

the spectrum. I also critically read a lot of research on child development to

guide what I do, mostly so that if/when a parent asks for my suggestions or

advice I can back it up with why I'm suggesting this or that solution. And

usually my best advice is: At any age, there is no substitute for KNOWING your

child...no method, no tip, no trick, nothing can make up for not paying

attention to who your child is and knowing them. And if you do that, then when

you read any parenting book or advice your gut is going to be pretty good at

pulling out the things that will work with YOUR child.

>

> Ninera

>

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yes even therapy can only help to a certain extent.. i think since we were

exposed to all the craziness from bpd parents from a young age, at least i was,

we tend to have internalized this into ourselves.. as i understand it, there is

a normal healthy identification with parents in every child, we were just

unlucky enuf not to have 'normal' healthy parents.  

i know the craziness is sometimes inside me and i try not to hate myself for it.

 acceptance of what is seems to be a key for change for me, hard as that is to

do sometimes.  i wonder if this is why forgiveness is sometimes a healing help,

tho very hard for me i know.. i want to hate and have revenge but it just ends

up hurting me.. i end up hating myself.. like the old phrase, 'my mother,

myself' it is at least in part true for me.. much as i would wish it were not..

it just is.. and i pray for the willingness to forgive.

as doug says, may we all heal.. even in my case if it means loving nada so i can

love myself.  oh sooo hard to do.  but maybe in time.. 

Subject: Re: If everything means nothing then nothing means

anything

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 8:13 PM

 

Hi Doug,

I am continuously impressed with the way you and everyone else can articulate

the experience of growing up within the BPD FOG. What you are saying here is

simple yet very profound; that we grow up very confused when we are not praised

for our own selves, to give ourselves and identity but to enhance the identity

of the BPD parent. Then there is this strange feeling, at least for me, all my

life, of: who am I? Why do I never feel good enough? Why does therapy not even

help with this?

Why can't I get away from the influence of my BPD parent?

Also, the idea of saying: okay these are your responsibilities~ clean up after

yourself, do the dishes (whatever), rather than a sick, crying, messed up momma

who is blaming *you* for her problems because you didn't do those things.

This made me defensive and resentful and I guess passive aggressive. And very

passive. Hiding. And feeling guilty as hell.

I remember when I was very very young, my mother went into the mental hospital.

I don't remember why, or for how long or what precipitated it. I remember

visiting her in a darkened room. I remember the nurses saying we were so cute

(us kids) and I remember feeling ugly as can be when she said that. I remember

my grandmother saying that maybe if we helped out more around the house....mom

would be okay. (I mean really? Our house was totally clean and organized; my

mom even had a cleaning lady).

When we were teens and young adults and my parents would go away, I remember

this crazed thing before they came back thinking we had to perfectly clean the

house for her when they arrived. And one day I realized: it wasn't clean like

this before she left!

I also experienced the inappropriate sexual invasiveness from my mother. Some

things she said and did. And her not understanding how bad I felt when I got my

period at the age of 11 (it was horrible).

It's weird,I felt that I had left a lot of this behind but when I read this

stuff from everyone and I see how isolated I have become in my sorrow, and

grief, and the passive anger I have, I can see the strength of it all; how it

affected me so deeply that who knows if I will move beyond it.

And Doug, sorry for your low mood; I am feeling sorry for myself too.

~patricia

If everything means nothing then nothing means

anything

Confused yet? Pondering the nadaness of nada. In this respect.

Things were never what they seemed, or ought to be. For example, nada

would praise me effusively for little nothings. Accomplishments that

were meaningless would cause her to gush on and on. I think it was a

way of living her own life and lack of self esteem through me. But look

what that did.

If she was overflowing in praise for what I knew to be a nothing thing,

then any praise for a real accomplishment became meaningless. It took

away from the satisfaction when I found things at which I could excel.

Her criticisms were equally meaningless, for similar reasons. She would

not criticize directly as in pick up your socks, but complain about her

lack of cleanliness to another, and manage to shift the blame for the

house not being clean to me. I would then catch the criticism that I

need to help me mother more! So, the real criticism which would be

effective and true, you need to pick up your clothes and put them in the

laundry, was meaningless in view of you need to be the one responsible

for the house being cleaned.

Another case in point, which combines nada s lack of bounderies and

sexual inappropriateness. She gets an anonymous phone call which

accuses me of having sex with a girl I knew. Nada s responce? She blows

up, accuses me of doing it, then wants a 14 year old boy to swear to her

that I would never consider having sex with some little hussy! Now the

girl in question, was hot, and I had it bad for her, but never had a

chance. At that time, I had never had sex at all. But to swear I would

nt do so? When, lets face it, a 14 year old boy, I thought about it all

the time and really wanted to give it a try. So this criticism was

useless, and emasculating.

So her praises were meaningless, as were her criticisms, because none

were grounded in truth.

Then there were relationships. I never understood this. She would "

adopt " kids, make them as special as I should have been, gush about

them, in front of me, and to me, as if I should think that was a

wonderful thing. This behavior continued on through her life till she

was doing it about grandkids as well. She never even met some of her

great grandkids, my grandkids. What an utter slap that was. I always

felt like, what am I , chopped liver?

She wanted me to hate my dad, who she divorced, but then be as bubbly

and in love with her boy friends, many of whom were incarcerated

prisoners she met by writing letters, as she was.

Nothing had a true meaning with nada. What did it mean for her to say I

love you, if she would say it, and make it clear it was equal, to the

kid of a casual friend? If I was chastised for that girl with the big,

well that doesnt matter, that I never did get even a kiss from, what

difference did it make for her to talk about my drinking? She never got

it right, so why, and how, would I start to heed her?

By the way, her criticism of my drinking, which started at the age of

12, was not about you re too young, you may be on the road to being an

alcoholic, it will ruin your health. No, no. It was , you just hurt your

mother so badly by doing that.

You see what I mean? Nothing had a real meaning with nada. So nothing

nada said was ever taken seriously.

Any of you guys have similar stories? Praise that becomes meaningless,

criticism that becomes useless, being devalued as the person and child

that you were?

I m feeling a little sorry for myself tonite, guys. Sorry if that comes

thru in this post.

Doug

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