Re: lutein, enzymes, chelation, science, dogma, sillilness.

[Guest guest]

> Hello Suzan,

>

> > " For a child who has autism and also Crohns, colitis or

inflammatory

> >bowel disease I would not recommend use of the Houstonni products

> >even with a lutein free diet.

> > For those choosing a lutein free diet I have much less reservation

> > about the use of the Houstonni products. "

>

> > Desorgher

>

> , could you explain the above? I read your whole note, but

> still couldn't understand what it is about Houstonni products that

> you wouldn't recommend them for an autistic child with IBD.

>

> The products contain some substances which are designed to breakdown

> the cellulose structure and thus release pigments in the gut. These

> pigments when normally released in the human body are released in

the

> liver. As it is my theory that autism is often an immune response

> during fetal development to the lutein pigment as a result of

> vaccination practice ? evolution of the immune system I am concerned

> that releasing the pigment in the gut could result in increased

immune

> activity and inflammation.

Thus 's argument reduces to her pet theory being in conflict

with the observed fact that most children do much better on houston

enzymes (and most other brands) so you should deny your child

appropriate care because it is contrary to her unscientific theory.

This is similar to the mainstream medical reasoning that you shouldn't

chelate your autistic child becacuse they couldn't possibly be toxic.

Andy . .. . . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

It has not been proven that most kids do better on the Houstonni products:

From: brer1fox@a...

Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 1:57 pm

Subject: Better results AFTER diet restriction?

Is there any reason to think that you would get better results with

the enzymes AFTER your child has been on a restricted diet for a

while, rather than just trying the enzymes without having had

restricted the diet at all?

We have not had real noticeable improvements with the enzymes. We used

HNI brand, both types, for about 2 months. We were not completely GFCF

prior to using the enzymes, and I wonder if we would have had better

results if we had been GFCF for a while then tried the enzymes.

I think when you allow the body to heal for a while by taking away the

stressors (i.e. problem foods), THEN you try enzymes, maybe the body

has healed enough that it can handle the foods now with the enzymes to

handle any excess.

Does this make any sense, or should I maybe assume that because the

enzymes didn't seem to help us, that the GFCF diet would also not

help. That maybe this just isn't part of Ben's problem? I know that

the diet and/or enzymes does not work for everyone but it's kind of a

bummer.

And just FYI... I never gave Ben more than 1 of each capsule prior to

each meal. He would just take one of each in some pear sauce before

every meal. His meals were usually chicken nuggets, or fish sticks,

french fries, hot dogs, maybe chicken and stars. He has been off all

major dairy (milk, yogurt, cheese, etc.) for more than 1 year and

still is. He never eats bread, pasta, cereal, or large amounts of

anything gluten, so I never felt like he needed any more than 1 of

each. He is 4 and weighs 40 lbs.

Any insight and/or advice would be very appreciated! Thanks, Ann

From: ckelley100@h...

Date: Fri Aug 3, 2001 12:20 am

Subject: Re: Better results AFTER diet restriction?

Ann,

I make an attempt here:

> Terri,

>

>

> My son is 8 1/2 and was diagnosed with Asperger's.

>

>

> Dr. Houston spoke to one of my local parent support groups the day

> the enzymes were first made on April 20, 2001. We bought the

> Peptizyde and Zyme Prime and our son started taking them the next

> day, so he's been on them over a year.

>

>

> My son was on the gfcf diet for a year prior to the enzymes. He

had

> good results from the diet, but I also felt he " plateauted " . A big

> problem was that to maintain the improvements on the diet, I had to

> continue to remove more foods. Besides gluten and casein, I had to

> remove soy, corn, nuts, colorings, flavorings, sorghum, vinegar,

> yeast, and others.

>

>

> My son responded well to the diet, but responded even better once

on

> enzymes. After starting the enzymes, we gradually added back

almost

> all of the previously banned foods. Over the next year, my son

> continued to progress steadily in nearly all areas of development.

> His classroom teacher and speech therapist reported several

> improvements two weeks after starting the enzymes.

>

>

> My son started taking No-Fenol recently. Since starting it, my son

> is even happier, more affectionate and has an increased appetite

(he

> is very skinny). I also notice more sustained eye contact. I

though

> his eye contact had improved a great deal on the diet, then more on

> Peptizyde, but now I see him looking into my eyes longer. He has

> been a little " spacier " though on following through on requests

> (needs more reminders to do stuff) and has had increased urination,

> although I don't know for sure why. He is so much happier that I

am

> reluctant to drop the No-Fenol to see if the increased urination

gets

> better. Instead, I am reducing the No-Fenol dose for a few weeks

and

> will report back. School will be out soon, so that will allow me

to

> observe changes easier.

>

>

> I am definitely convinced of the merits of the Peptizyde and Zyme

> Prime for my son. Giving him a more varied diet has been

wonderful,

> not to mention the improvements in awareness, socialization,

> attitude, energy, problem solving, vocal quality (no monotone,

better

> pitch and rate), interaction with brother, and eye contact. This

is

> just our story; not everyone sees such improvements and some see no

> improvements, but for us the benefits have been numerous. Since

your

> son responded so well to the diet, odds are even better he will do

> well with the enzymes, although this does not have to be a

> precursor.

>

>

>

>

> From: " ckelley100100 " <ckelley100@c...>

Date: Fri May 10, 2002 12:51 am

Subject: ENZY: Autism Research Review International

Lenny Schafer published in FEAT, " In a commentary in the current

Autism Research Review International, Pangborn issues a warning on

the risks of a new 'enzyme supplement that destroys all dietary

phenols'- the kind recently introduced by Houston Labs, apparently. "

My comment: The Autism Research Review International, a quarterly

newsletter, is published by ARI, Dr. Rimland's organization.

From: " ckelley100100 " <ckelley100@c...>

Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 2:22 pm

Subject: One Year on Enzymes

My son is 8 ½ years old, diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome and

started taking the Peptizyde and HN-Zyme Prime enzymes from Houston

Nutraceuticals one year ago on April 21, 2001. The short version is,

the gfcfsf diet helped, the enzymes helped more, being off the diet

and on enzymes helped the most. The long version follows.

Before starting the Houston enzymes, my son had been gluten-free,

casein-free, soy-free, corn-free, egg-free and off of numerous other

foods over the course of the previous year. The diet helped my son

with many areas of development.

At two weeks after starting the enzymes, his teacher and speech

therapist observed an increase in awareness, class participation and

humor. At four weeks, the teacher called me to report a large

increase in problem-solving skills, improved socialization, an

increased enthusiasm for learning and generally a happier

temperament. During this time, we had gradually expanded our son's

diet to include some of the previously banned foods including gluten

and casein. The teacher said, " It's like something out of the

movie 'Awakenings' " I was familiar with the movie based on Dr.

Oliver Sacks patients who come out of a catatonic state due to a new

medication. I remembered how their awakening did not last, though,

and I was afraid my own son's awakening would not either.

A few weeks later, our son was off the diet and doing better than

ever. The following areas showed steady improvement over the next

weeks and months while on the enzymes and off the diet: eye contact,

sound tolerance, initiating conversation, obsessiveness, affection,

empathy, self-stimulatory behavior, self-injurious behavior,

transitioning, desire for physical activity, skin color, adherence to

routine, stools, interaction with brother, waking up, awareness,

problem solving, short-term memory, humor, vocal pitch, natural rise

and fall of speech, rate of speech, disposition. At six months on

enzymes and still off the diet, I went through all the evaluation

deficits from testing a year before which qualified my son as meeting

the educational criteria for Asperger's Syndrome. Out of 58

weaknesses, the teacher and speech therapist responded that only 2

were still an area of concern, 10 were now only a mild concern, and

on 2 they didn't know if there was a change or not. So 54 out of 58

prior weaknesses were either no longer a concern or were only a mild

concern.

Since starting the No-Fenol two weeks ago, he seems even happier,

more affectionate, is eating more, and is better able to tolerate

some phenolic foods, particulary artificial colorings. I do not

notice a decrease in stimming with the No-Fenol. My son's stims can

be distracting at home, but are not observed at school.

Last week I asked the speech therapist if all improvements since

enzymes have been maintained. She said the improvements were still

present and her only concern was sometimes our son is quiet and

appears on occasion not to be listening, but always is and knows the

answers to questions. She said he is the only student that notices

when their class is in the hall lining up for lunch, yet this doesn't

interfere with his attention to the task at hand. She said he does

not initiate a lot of conversation, but will do it when asked and

participates appropriately. She said he looks out for the group and

encourages them to follow directions. She has no big concerns about

his vocal pitch, although it gets high when he is excited. It is

more of a concern to me than to her, but I think he controls it

better at school and the speech therapist and I both agree it is so

much better than it was that it is best left alone for now. She said

his pragmatic language (social language) is appropriate now; his

problem solving and common sense is " perfect " . He has a few

articulation errors, but has maintained the improvements with the

previous numerous errors.

I asked the classroom teacher the same question a few days ago and

she agreed that all progress is still present and he is doing well.

She said he is quiet, and at times seems to not be paying attention,

but always is because he answers all questions correctly. She told

me on several occasions throughout the school year that he is " doing

great " . At his school Valentine's Party, she shared with me that he

is liked by the students and fits in well. Last November, when it

was apparent that the enzymes were responsible for so many changes, I

asked her if she would describe my son as someone having any

characteristics of Asperger's or autism. Her answer was, " No. " I

observed on a field trip last week that the other students seem to

like my son and his interaction with them was excellent. At one

point when the class was running up a hill, I saw him shake and twist

his hands for a few seconds on two occasions, but otherwise, he

appeared " typical " . When he runs, he sometimes stims like this, but

no one seems to be bothered by it.

My son has continued to interact with his brother since starting the

enzymes. Before enzymes, I would force him to tell his

brother " Goodbye " in the morning, but now he does so willingly and

they often tell each other, " Goodbye, I love you forever! " Before

enzymes, he tolerated his brother for very short spurts of time and

otherwise yelled at him to " Go away, baby! " They usually sleep apart

each in their own rooms, but after starting enzymes, beg to sleep

together on weekends to have what we call, " Brother Slumber Party " .

Recently, I've given in more and let them sleep together during the

week, too, although then they stay up too late. They fight now, too,

but they are acting like brothers which is something I had given up

on ever seeing before starting the enzymes. Before the enzymes, my

youngest son would ask, " Why does my brother hate me? " The youngest

does not ask that any more.

The year we did the diet was difficult. My son was high functioning

and not very happy about altering his diet. In fact, he would

ask, " Why are you doing this to me? Why can't I just eat regular

foods? " I kept removing foods and he kept developing sensitivities.

The diet helped him function better, so I knew I had to do whatever

it took to keep going. The keeping going part was getting

treacherous, though. It seemed running out of " safe " foods was a

possibility. Trying to produce foods that matched what was being

served the next day for birthday treats, classroom food rewards, and

student council doughnut sales was all-consuming. I was either

cooking, cleaning up from cooking, planning the next meal or treat,

researching safe foods and recipes on the internet, or driving around

town to buy special foods. Over time, my son could not tolerate

anything made from a mix, so everything was from scratch. I finally

asked the teacher to send a note to all parents requesting a day's

notice on any treats they would bring to school. Many nights I would

be up late trying to duplicate the goodies from a description given

to me by a parent a few hours earlier on the phone. I finally

learned the easiest way to handle my son's distress over his treat

never looking exactly like the others was to make a large batch for

the whole class. So I was often making large batches of cookies,

doughnuts or cupcakes, not to mention lunchbox foods, breakfast foods

and dinners. Sometimes I would pay my son money to make up for

things not being exactly fair or would offer to pick him up early

from school so he could have extra TV time at home while the other

kids ate special treats at the end of the schoolday.

Everything got better with the enzymes and it got better fast. My

son was eating " regular " foods, we no longer battled over the diet, I

was free to leave the kitchen, we got to eat at restaurants and

relatives' homes, and my son transformed into someone happier,

healthier, and more connected to his world. My son still has

somewhat of an awkward gait at times, he sometimes stims at home or

at unstructured activities, he still prefers not to talk about social

situations although he handles them well, some days the eye contact

is less than others, he talks a little slow at times and his voice

gets too high when he is excited, but he is overall functioning very

well and is perceived by others as " typical " . He is concerned about

what others think and feel and wants to fit in and indeed he does fit

in.

His own summary of the enzymes today: " I think the enzymes help me

a lot because when I was 6 or 7 ½ I felt like a different type of

normal and then when I took the enzymes I felt like I just saw a

great movie or got a great new toy. When I didn't take the enzymes I

couldn't eat other kinds of foods but when I took the enzymes I could

eat other foods and I felt so happy that I didn't have to worry about

any other thing again. " , age 8

Thank you, Devin.

Parents reporting on the use of the new enzyme product include similar

results to those who use the GFCF diet and include that the child is

itching and scratching, develops rashes and red spots and odd colored

stools. Additional reports from the enzymes group include blood in the

stool, vomiting and burned lips and blisters or sores on or about the

mouth. Again those who appear to be getting the best results with the

enzyme product are those who were previously GFCF and some who remain

also GFCF and whose child has additional diet restrictions. My concern

with the new product is that it is said to result in the breakdown of

the food fibers and plant cell walls releasing nutrients which are

otherwise unavailable. Often the plant foods, fiber foods, go through

the digestive track and are not completely broken down. They are fiber

foods and used for bulk. Plant foods also contain triterpenoids (like

terpentine), pinene (pine oil), natural plant pesticide carcinogens,

aldehydes, formic acid, phytates, lectins and saponins as well as

suberic acid, sebasic acid and carotenoids, xanthophylls, phenolic

compounds, solanine and as many as 500 metabolites have been found to

come from the tomato alone. Breakdown and release of plant food energy

generally takes place in the liver. The liver then has the capacity to

utilize, store, convert and remove harmful substances and this is

called xenobiotic metabolism. The kidney also plays a vital role in

xenobitotic metabolism. Xenobiotic metabolism is complicated in autism

as a probable result of the immune system selection of some pigmented

fruits and vegetables as non-self. Removing the colored fruits and

vegetables which result in this response treats the cause and has

resulted in recovery for some people with autism. They are still

intolerant to the food pigment but are no longer suffering from the

symptoms because the food pathogen is removed. Breaking down the plant

cell wall and releasing these metabolites in the gut has not been

studied. Indeed a comprehensive study of diet and autism has not been

done. However, some comprehensive studies have taken place which show

significant damage already to the GI tract in autism. Close work with

a few families using the new Houstonni enzyme products and a review of

the online board has not alleviated my concern that

changing the location of the breakdown of the plant foods to the GI

tract and stomach from the natural location, the liver can and does

result in a potential for the immune system reaction to food pathogens

from plant foods to increase activity in the gut and potentially

result in additional GI damage. Vaccination and immune selection have

rendered some food components as unusable in the autistic metabolism.

Products and treatment therapies that do not account for the cause are

merely treating the symptoms. Vaccination has resulted in increased

need for food and nutrient regulation and this often involves

supplementing acceptable sources of nutrients such as vitamin A in a

bio-available form. People with autism who have also a genetic or

inborn error need more intensive supplementation and restriction.

People with autism who have also abnormal gut flora, parasites, fungi,

bacteria, yeast and viral pathogens need more intensive therapies. We

need to treat the cause of autism and also look at individual needs. A

single diet restriction or a single supplement is rarely adequate.

Until we can understand autism products and therapies can only treat

the symptoms. A comprehensive approach to dietary intervention can and

does result in complete alleviation of symptoms for some and this may

include use of enzymes, micronutrients, EFA?s and vitamins. I am

firmly of the opinion that the new Houstonni product can be helpful to

some who wish to return gluten and casein to the diet and that this

product can break down the gluten and casein. To be most effective the

gluten and casein should be eliminated for at least four months. I am

also of the opinion that for those with very limited diets the enzyme

product may come out in the stool intact and can therefore do nothing.

I object to providing enzymes which contain phytase, cellulase and

protease out of the capsules and giving the enzymes in this way to

infants and toddlers. I also believe that for those who have autism

and do not have a self-selective (self-protective) diet that the

enzyme activity releasing plant substances in the gut which are

normally released in the liver can or could result in damage to the GI

tract. I would also recommend this product to people whose child with

autism has the self-selective diet and who have been strict GFCF for

at least four months. http://saras-autism-diet.freeservers.com/

[Guest guest]

It has not been proven that most kids do better on the Houstonni products:

From: brer1fox@a...

Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 1:57 pm

Subject: Better results AFTER diet restriction?

Is there any reason to think that you would get better results with

the enzymes AFTER your child has been on a restricted diet for a

while, rather than just trying the enzymes without having had

restricted the diet at all?

We have not had real noticeable improvements with the enzymes. We used

HNI brand, both types, for about 2 months. We were not completely GFCF

prior to using the enzymes, and I wonder if we would have had better

results if we had been GFCF for a while then tried the enzymes.

I think when you allow the body to heal for a while by taking away the

stressors (i.e. problem foods), THEN you try enzymes, maybe the body

has healed enough that it can handle the foods now with the enzymes to

handle any excess.

Does this make any sense, or should I maybe assume that because the

enzymes didn't seem to help us, that the GFCF diet would also not

help. That maybe this just isn't part of Ben's problem? I know that

the diet and/or enzymes does not work for everyone but it's kind of a

bummer.

And just FYI... I never gave Ben more than 1 of each capsule prior to

each meal. He would just take one of each in some pear sauce before

every meal. His meals were usually chicken nuggets, or fish sticks,

french fries, hot dogs, maybe chicken and stars. He has been off all

major dairy (milk, yogurt, cheese, etc.) for more than 1 year and

still is. He never eats bread, pasta, cereal, or large amounts of

anything gluten, so I never felt like he needed any more than 1 of

each. He is 4 and weighs 40 lbs.

Any insight and/or advice would be very appreciated! Thanks, Ann

From: ckelley100@h...

Date: Fri Aug 3, 2001 12:20 am

Subject: Re: Better results AFTER diet restriction?

Ann,

I make an attempt here:

> I believe all of you with your good results and couldn't be happier.

I'm just wishing that I was seeing something so positive. We are

seeing such mixed results that I can't figure out what's going on.

> Today my son's occupational therapist left a half hour early because

my son was stimming and completely uncooperative. She said she

hasn't seen that sort of behavior in well over a month and that his

language was poor. We've been on the enzymes for nine days. We have

never gone off GFCF. Though I have given some foods containing potato

starch and pear, which he is allergic to, and seen to reaction, this

morning I gave him some rice cereal and he went totally nuts. Last

night, for the first time in the nine days I forgot to give him the

enzymes with dinner and he seemed to do great. His speech therapist

believes she is seeing improvement with the little connector words and

with intelligibility. That was after five days of the enzymes. This

morning I saw aggressive behavior, athan pushed his sister in the

floor for no reason. It has been weeks since we've dealt

with any violence, and that is very difficult for me to tolerate. I

just don't know how long to give the enzymes before deciding if they

are working or not. We also seem to be getting really firm stools, and

less bm's than usual. At the same time he seems to be passing more

gas. My mother told me she felt this was a good thing, that maybe the

enzymes are just now getting to his system. Can anyone help me sort

all this?

From: lori silfee <loris18960@y...>

Date: Wed Sep 26, 2001 11:28 am

Subject: things are bad

My ten yr old son has been strictly gf/cf,egg free for 2 years. We

started the enzymes (Pep+prime)12 days ago. On about day eight

behavior started to decline. I have been giving 1 each before AM and

PM meals and snacks on school days and 1 each with all meals on

weekends (just until my MD comes through with the note for school to

give them. Behavior continues to deteriorate. He had been fairly calm

for 2 weeks before starting the enzymes but now is aggressing towards

teachers and other kids and tantruming at rage level. The episodes

number about 7 per day. He's out of control. I am aware that behaviors

can increase as exorphins decrease. He had 1 week of clinical mania

coming off dairy. How long should we tolerate the chaos? He reacts to

so many things perhaps he is reacting to the enzymes themselves. He

actually calms down in the afternoon when no enzyme is given at lunch.

Or, are we having a harder time because he hasn't been able to use

them with all meals as yet? Please give me some guidance!!! Lori

From: lori silfee <loris18960@y...>

Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 11:05 am

Subject: day 19 and no positives

I wrote previously that things were not going well when we were on

about day 12 of the enzymes (pep and

HN). I have a 10 yr.old with high functioning autism who has been

gf/cf/,egg free for two years. Back when we came off dairy he became

clinically manic for about 1 week and then didn't really show us

anything dramatic in the way of improvement. After he was fully off he

told me he had been scared. All treatments have yielded only subtle

changes in him. We have been using the enzymes for 19 days so far. We

gave them (1 each) with all home meals and all meals on weekends until

the past five days when we were able to also give them at school. He

remains strictly gf/cf, egg free. We were so hopeful when I came

across them because we know for sure we have a phenol problem and

believe there are other food issues we haven't been able to figure out

because he has delayed reactions. So far no real positives. He is

aggressing, tantruming and irritable. The past weekend was barely

bearable he was so hyper and irritable. Mon. AM he had a great hour

before school but it was short lived. He has aggressed repeatedly at

school both Mon. and today. Our three week date is this Thur. 10/4. Do

we cont. and hope for more positives?? We really haven't seen much but

a return to aggression and tantrums. We used serenaid and enzymeaid

(Kirkman's) both extensively in the past with no reactions except that

they softened reaction from accidental infractions if we gave them

right away. We are willing to go through anything if it will truly

improve his life.

And, said to be temporary side-effects, hyperactivity and bed-wetting:

Hyperactivity

From: alison1wls@a...

Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:43 am

Subject: Rash on face

Is it normal to have a red blotchy rash on the cheeks and chin when

starting enzymes? Oliver has been on pep for 1 week tomorrow, 1 a day.

He is definitely having more tantrums and is so hyperactive and

stimming alot. He has been on probio gold for 2 weeks 1 a day but did

not see this reaction with them, assuming and am absolutely certain it

is the enzymes.

Thanks

Alison

From: " Stone " <sabrinastone@c...> Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 7:11 am

Subject: Overdose?

My one year old, not autistic, managed to eat Seth's toast that was

loaded with all three enzymes (1 full capsule each) ...(turn your back

for a minute!) He had terrible gas pains all day. Today, one day

later, he has a fever of 102. Can there be some link? I do know he has

had some yeast issues in the past by

seeing diaper rashes with red spots, but they have gone away. By the

way, what does NT stand for?

Second question: Seth got two doses of enzymes last night at dinner

and was very hyper afterwards. Would that indicate we should increase

his dosage to two capsules of each enzyme rather than one? He has been

on Houston enzymes for two months...going on three. Is there still

some die off going on if he is getting hyper when the dosage is

increased? He doesn't give any indication of a yeast issue.

Has anyone else seen these reactions and what did you do?

From: fsalberger@h... Date: Thu May 17, 2001 8:04 am

My son 6.5 has been on peptizide for one week. He had Zyme Prime today

for the first time (I received the bottle today). He had been so nice

and most of all QUIET all day. My husband and my older son kept asking

me why he was so nice and happy today and what I had done

to him. I answered " well he just took the new enzyme today " . The

hyperactivity he showed on only Peptizide seems to have completely

disappear with addition of Zyme Prime. Well I hope he continues to be

nice, quiet and happy. I shall keep you posted about his mood the

next days.

Fatima

From: fsalberger@h...

Date: Fri May 25, 2001 2:50 am

Subject: Anyone's child eating leaves?

My son starts to eat all the garden's leaves as soon as he is outside.

He cannot digest and tolerate them, but he eats them anyway and it is

very difficult to stop him. I thought about giving him a ZP before

garden time. Do you think enzymes can work in this case?

Fatima

From: jennifergfcf@y... Date: Thu May 17, 2001 3:51 pm

HI,

We have been using the Peptizyde for 2 weeks, and giving controlled

dietary infractions. It seems if we use 2 at a time or more than one

dose a day my son gets quite hyper. He has never been a hyper child.

Has anyone else noticed this. I have been thinking about adding the HZ

Zyne Prime but not sure.

If I allow to have a dietary infraction once a day with one pill it

works fabulous. My son has been on the diet for 1 year and 2 months

and I have been militant about it.

Thanks,

From: sea@i...

Date: Mon Sep 24, 2001 4:19 pm

Subject: revisiting hyperactivity-Devin?

We are finding that ever since we have begun giving the Pep and ZP

regularly with each meal, our son has become much more hyper -it's

funny sometimes because he is happy and excited and goes around

singing and chattering about his current interest, but his impulsivity

has also increased, landing him in trouble at school and at home. I

have had to hide the scissors as he cant' seem to resist the idea of

cutting hair -his own, little brother's, and a poor girl at school!

I have been on no-mail for a while and just went through the last

month's posts. I see that others have also posted about hyperactivity

but it has always been attributed to other things, vitamins, other

foods, etc. However, I also noted that the company has removed the

Glutamine from recent batches, and that Devin referred to it as having

an " excitatory " effect in some children. I was wondering if this might

account for my son's behavior.

Feedback would be appreciated.

T

Of the most concern is the adamant desire for parents to be able to

return offending foods to offer the child normal social opportunity

and the freedom of a non-restricted diet. This is admirable but it is

not working. It appears that the GFCF diet can work even better for

some autists who also have a self-selective diet and who get adequate

supplementation and this often includes use of enzymes. It would be

expected that a self-limited diet where many fruits and vegetables

were naturally avoided could or would result in the need for enzyme

supplementation. Parents frustrated by the good reports from those

implementing a GFCF diet need to take a closer look as many of the

parents are providing a much more comprehensive approach which often

includes elimination of food dyes, aspartame, MSG and provides

supplementation of a multiple vitamin, EFA?s, an enzyme and also DMG.

For autists who have the same food allergy or rather vaccine induced

allergy to the pterin aldehyde lutein and have not chosen a

self-selective diet avoiding these foods then the results of the GFCF

diet include rashes, red ear, diarrhea, undigested food in the stool,

constipation, vomiting, itching, aggression and regression. This is a

true allergy and those choosing the new enzyme product who have not

recognized the sources of lutein or whose child does not have already

a self-selective diet with some awareness of toxins which come in with

foods including MSG, food dyes and aspartame are finding the same

adverse reactions to the enzymes as they did with the otherwise

unrestricted GFCF diet, no diet restrictions and can include:

Itchy skin

From: " Moffett " <juliemoffett@y...>

Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:49 am

Subject: Itchy skin

Hi!

Quick question for you all!

My son seems to be more itchy than usual since starting the enzymes.

We are on day 4 of using Peptizyde. He takes one tablet twice a day

with large meals. He has been GFCF for about a month now.

He is complaining lately of his whole body being " itchy. " No visible

bumps or rash. Apparently just a sensation. Rubbing CFGF lotion

doesn't seem to help. Anyone else experienced this?

Cz.

Depth perception

From: " equus1991 " <lrivard@s...> Date: Thu May 16, 2002 2:23 am

Subject: HELP I'M SCARED

I upped dd Pep to about 1/2 cap last week. 1/2 cap per meal, snack. I

just had a call from the school. They reported a couple of incidents.

One, in the lunchroom, where the tiles are large, and

brightly primary colours, dd lost it, claiming " I'm scared, the floor

is moving " she was very terrified and grabbed at anything she could to

hold onto. Also, in her classroom, floor is a dull grey colour,

she had dropped something and looked over the edge of her desk and got

very panicky saying " I'm scared of heights " . Something strange

happening to her depth/perceptions? Anyone help me?? I have left a

message for Devin to call me ASAP.

Liz

Hive under eye

From: Vandell <nannygoat62@y...> Date: Sat May 11, 2002 8:59 am

Subject: Swollen eye

Hi, I started enzymes with my daughter about 2 weeks ago and today she

came home from school with what appears to be a hive under one of her

eyes.. I offhandedly noticed that eye was a bit pink this am.

Is this possibly a reaction to enzymes or should I look elsewhere? I

am thinking it may be a bite of

some kind..it is about a dime-sized hive directly under her right eye?

Any help would be greatly

appreciated.

Vandell

mother of 5 beautiful girls

Meltdown

From: Elaine <kbrock@a...> Date: Sun Jun 23, 2002 1:28 pm

From: Elaine <kbrock@a...>

Date: Sun Jun 23, 2002 1:28 pm

Subject: No Phenol question

For those that observed a reaction to No Phenol (i.e. die-off) was it

immediately after giving the No Phenol or later in the day? I ask

because I gave my ds a small amount this morning and he had the worst

meltdown this evening that he's had in quite some time.

TIA

Elaine

From: " sam_hsmom " <redmiller@m...>

Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 4:13 pm

Subject: Ojibwa tea update and a no fenol question

I am cautiously optimistic about the ojibwa tea. Tom's been on it

since Mon. Mon. night we had the *worst* melt-down (die off) we have

ever seen. This is the first time we have ever seen him violent

(although it was in a very naive, not like anyone was going to get

hurt sort of violent). The next two days he was just fine but asking

for a lot of sweet stuff (yeast dying, I'm guessing).

For the past couple of days, we're seeing some good stuff. A bit more

eye contact and he's able to form his thoughts into sentences better

(if that makes any sense). I think yeast and or bacteria has just

sorta slowly crept back up on us, and now the tea is beating it back down.

Here's my question...

Do you think adding a little no-fenol to the tea would

a) help break down any resistant yeast so the tea can go in and clean

house a little more

break down the tea so it works even better

c) break down the tea so it doesn't work at all

d) none of the above

e) it's a stupid idea, don't do it

The other times we have tried to introduce no-fenol, we got some of

the same melt-downish behaviors as the tea (but not as bad), but I

really think this was die off. He had the same look in his eyes with

the no-fenol mini-meltdowns as he did with the tea meltdown. Gotta be

something similar going on.

Any input appreciated.

Peace and grace,

Sally, mom to

Tom, 7yo dx AS but on the road to recovery

Ben, 5yo NT by the grace of God

Gracie, 1yo NT and unvaccinated

yellow stool

From: " saral " <vze2cfw8@v...> Date: Mon May 21, 2001 11:00 am

Anyone heard of this with the enzymes? Eliezer gets loose

greenish/yellow stool with the

enzymes. The yellow (bile)actually stains his skin and is difficult to

get off. The enzymes also make him very hungry so I am imagining that

his transit time is too fast with them since I've heard that green

stool could be from rapid transit which is why it is usually

associated with diarrhea. Why would he be having this? He is G/FC/F

and is only getting about 1/2 a capsule of HN-Zyme at a time and even

less of peptizyde. On the plus side, he is clearly happier and more

playful although very verbally stimmy. I am also giving him

probiotics and a tiny bit of bicarbonate and they are not the issue

here, I narrowed it down to the enzymes. I want to keep him on them,

what should I do? He doesn't eat enough protein, could that be the

problem?

Sara

Oily orange poops

From: chris bacher <chrisb@h...> Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 4:20 am

Subject: oily orange poops

Hi-

My 5 year old son has been taking the peptizyde and zyne for about 4

days and his poops have become oily and orange and frequent like they

used to be when he was a toddler. My question is this: Is this a yeast

die off reaction or something similiar, has anyone else seen this, and

does it pass?

thanks for your help

chris

Flax oil [NB: Flax contains lutein and/or beta-carotene]

From: " Lynn Kellner " <ricklynn@m...> Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:32 pm

Hi there. I just thought I'd take a bit of time and give a progress report

too.

My son, is 3 1/2 and diagnosed with mild autism with ADHD

(maybe) and SID (less now) and was diagnosed at about 2 1/2. We have

been totally gfcf since late August 2000, after getting the U of Fla

blood test results where we learned his casein was off the charts (and

that was after we had

already begun by removing milk, cheese and icecream) and his gluten

although bad wasn't as bad as the casein. We saw amazing results and

were absolutely sure we had finally found out what was wrong with our

guy! I continued to search more and more for foods to remove, and have

tried being a purist with all the foods, but suspected I was leaking

in small areas (eg condiments, hotdogs, etc.), or there were

additional problems because his stools still weren't solid regularly.

We tried SNT within months after he was diagnosed (and about the time

we started the diet) but he became very hyper on it, so much so that

his therapist thought we had lost all the ground we had gained in the

first few months of intervention programs! So we dropped that out, and

only managed to maintain the baby vitamin Poly Vi Sol to keep

something going into him because he wouldn't do chewables at that

time. We are now supplementing with Rhino Vites chewable multis which

we began about a month ago after finally finding something that was

full of more minerals and free of all

offending additives.

Our next challenge was to find a sympathetic doctor to our boys needs,

and who would support all our interventions. That was hard as land

currently has only 2 or 3 pediatric MDs DAN certified, and none would

accept our insurance. But long and short was that we found a

developmental ped who

was working with our Infants and Toddlers program and who was taking

referrals through one of our HMO plans. So we switched and we are now

seeing her and working with her. She went to med school with Pam

Compart, one of the DAN docs here in MD. Yeah!

One of the first interventions she recommended was flax seed oil to

help with the hyperactivity and his ADHD. So we began that. I also

broke rule number one and introduced DMG to his regimen about the same

time (thinking that they were to focus on different things). Over the

next month and a half we started seeing alarming reports from school

of increased aggression, hitting, pushing, yelling, tantrums,

unwillingness to clean up, tranisiton struggles. You name it. So

different than the little boy who started

school. But we attributed it to a new sister in the same period,

trying to potty train and an increase in his class size all around the

same time. We worked very hard on discipline both at home and at

school to say, No way ! You're not doing that anymore! But it was

constraint on his part, not compliance.

Finally the teacher told us that she was seeing an incredible increase

in his spontaneous speech but it was correlated with this increase in

aggression. So for 10 days we removed the DMG, whereupon we heard that

it got even worse!

Well, with the intervention of God I can only say, I removed the flax

seed oil because it was getting so messy and hard to get down, and I

jsut wasn't seeing any benefits. In that same time frame the

aggression basically disappeared. And, in the middle of all this, we

began the enzymes about a

week ago.

We now have a calm, happy, compliant child whose bowels are regularly

solid (although still a little frequent, that will probably adjust)

and for the last week he has had mild problems at school (anyone know

why he would lick his classmate on the cheek?) and the teacher for the

first time in the last

two days sent home notes that had NO timeouts. You have to understand,

this kid was sometimes getting 4-6 timeouts in a 2 hour day!

Anyway, we are still maintaining strict gfcf right now, but my hope is

that I can bring the gluten back in since that wasn't as much the

issue as the casein, and then occasionally give him his real ice cream

with a pill!!!

This bread thing is killing me!!!!!

Just wanted you all to know.

Lynn in MD

OJ, throwing up [NB: Orange Juice contains lutein and beta-carotene]

From: Janine <jrlouie@o...> Date: Mon Jun 18, 2001 2:28 pm

Vomiting

Subject: throwing up

Has anyone every had a experience with throwing up from the enzymes.

My son has been taking them slow (however, was not knew to enzymes. He

has taken different ones for a year now) for about a week. 1/2 cap

with largest meal. Tonight he was eating french fries and drank his

juice down very fast which contained the two enzymes. Then he drank a

second cup of juice right after as well. The

enzymes were in Apple juice and the second cup was OJ. He then mush

have not felt well. He just threw it up. Any ideas?

Janine/NY

From: DeEtte Person <annarebecca85259@y...>

Date: Sat Sep 22, 2001 8:27 am

Subject: enzymes -- vomiting?

Just wondering if enzymes has caused vomiting in anyone. We started

on 1/2 capsule of ZN-Prime with dinner last Friday and upped to

1/2 capsule also with breakfast on Wednesday. All was going well, but

last night she woke up vomiting everywhere and still (12 hours later)

can't keep anything down. She ate her lunch -- but it just came up

again. I'm trying to figure out if she's just plain sick, reacting to

something she's eaten or if it could have anything to do with the

enzymes since that's really the only thing that's changed. It's not

likely that it's something she's eaten because she's on the ketogenic

diet which is very restrictive and she hasn't eaten anything new in

quite awhile. Appreciate any insights!-D

Food dye and aspartame

From: Pat Gallagher <patgallagher@e...>

Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 9:37 am

Subject: Bad reaction???

From: Pat Gallagher <patgallagher@e...>

Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 9:37 am

Subject: Bad reaction???

Hi Everyone,

I am trying to sort out the cause of a reaction that my son just had

and I'm not sure where to start. The list of possibilities seems to be

solong. He has been on Pep and Zyme for about 2 months now and seemed

to be doing very well. He used to take Creon but we switched when I

heard about these new enzymes. He seems to do fine with gluten but I

have always been more careful with dairy even when he was on Creon and

more recently while taking the Pep and Zyme. However, I have allowed

him to have increasing amounts and he hasn't had a reaction. For

example last week he had an ice cream cone and on another occasion

recently he had 2 slices of pizza with no problem. Tonight he had a

reaction to something but I can't figure out what. He complained of

having terrible pain in his ears (he said it felt

as if they had been sliced. They then became bright red and burning

hot. He became extremely agitated, started screaming at me, ran into

his room, was panicking, paranoid, crying. Couldn't seem to understand

what I was saying to him or alternately would misinterpret what I was

saying in a

paranoid way or do the opposite of what I said (e.g. I would say Relax

and he would tense up and clench his fists and teeth). I left him

alone to calm down for a bit and he came out of his room and asked if

I turned the heat on - he was very hot. His cheeks were bright red and

his body was warm. He still couldn't calm down and was visibly

agitated, confused and disoriented but after awhile he agreed to

taking an Alka Seltzer Gold which seemed to neutralize whatever was

going on.

So, my question is - What happened? He has been doing fine on the

enzymes for so long. Could this be a delayed reaction to casein from

days ago? The 2 things that could have done it today are M & m's or

sugarfree Bubbilicious gum (it contains Aspartame which he has reacted

to in the past - but it seemed such a small amount). Finally to make

matters more complicated we are on our 6th round of chelation and I

wonder if it could be related to chelation. There are just too many

variables to sort out. If anyone has any thoughts I would love to hear

them. Thanks, Pat

Sick

From: " saral " <vze2cfw8@v...>

Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 2:57 pm

Subject:

?

I've already posted about some benefits I saw, not much right now

other than better sleep. But he keeps getting strep so it's hard to tell.

Sara

Undigested food or capsules in stool

From: mglassford77@y...

Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 10:56 am

A few weeks ago, my son had a follow-up visit over at the Pfeiffer

Treatment Center. They recommended that my son have the Comprehensive

Digestive Stool Analysis done through Great Smokies Diagnostic

Laboratory. Timing was such today that we were finally able to do the

test. Well, as I was getting the sample, I noticed something hard. I

thought at first it might be food, but it was very

hard and then I remembered he said he had lost a tooth the other day

and had accidentally swallowed it, so I thought it was the tooth. Then

I noticed it was much bigger than a tooth, I pulled this hard

thing out and it was one of the supplements that I give him and it was

completely undissolved! I just can't tell which one it was. His stool

otherwise looked fine. I don't normally look at his stools

since he's 10 and has been potty trained since toddler age, but I

really don't know what to make of this. Any ideas from anyone? Should

he drink more water or does anyone know what happened? Thank

you in advance!

Undigested food

From: nathan1sg@y...

Date: Sat Sep 15, 2001 2:09 am

Subject: Undigested food in stool

Hi,

I started to give SerenAid to my kids (age 3 and 5, small one has

autism ) for one week. Since they are very sensitive to many stuff, I

am giving them one capsule during dinner time to see any reaction. I

noticed that both kids started to grow physically. Both of them,

especially big one has many kinds of undigested food, carrots,

seaweeds, sagos, even chlorella's green in his stool. Increase of

dosage will solve the problem or I am giving him wrong product?

Reduced analgesia

From: Fred Davies <mrrva@y...>

Date: Sat Jul 6, 2002 8:18 pm

Subject: 23 month old on Enzymes

My non verbal son began taking enzymes 3 weeks ago.

After a UTI he was dx'd as iron deficient and rx'd an

iron supplement. The supp made him act anemic, which

he hadn't to date, so I stopped it. First I began Pep

and Zyme Prime once a day, then a week later I added

fish liver oil, for vitamin A. I do daily epsom salt

baths and vitamin E oil rubs.

He's broken out in the 'milk bumps' across his

shoulders, again manifesting deficiency symptoms where

there had been none (believing that the bumps are a

sign of vitamin A deficiency). He was not

lactose/casein intolerant prior to enzymes. I do not

believe he is now. Is this something to watch? Is

there a solution?

He is most certainly experiencing die off. A painful

rash on his bum is the main sign. He has always been

very sensitive to yeast growth. His only dietary

problem is an egg allergy.

He is also teething (eye teeth, yuck). With the HNI

supp, he's become very sensitive to pain (where he had

a high tolerance before). I think I will wait until

the yeast is under control before I up his enzyme

dose. Can anyone suggest a better course of action?

I'm concerned that the increased pain sensitivity is

going to continue. It was actually why I was waiting

to start him on enzymes (after his teeth came through)

but the UTI changed that.

While his social skills (verified with the ATEC) have

improved immensely with the enzymes, I haven't seen a

return to pre-UTI speech ability. This concerns me.

Any suggestions?

Thanks so much for your help,

[Guest guest]

No convincing evidence the Houstonni products work better for most.

Reaction to gluten

From: <rkahan@a...> Date: Thu May 30, 2002 11:18 am

?I am finding that when my son gets to gluten without his enzymes, as

when the school makes a mistake, that my son has a severe reaction

that takes a long time to go away. The last violation was about a week

and a half ago and his behaviors have still not gotten back to the

good ol behaviors we

had when the enzyme/diet routine was on track. I am wondering how long

can a behavioral reaction to gluten go on for? I hate to ask this, but

at what point should I start thinking that maybe these enzymes just

stopped working for my son altogether? I mean how long can I blame

negative behavior on a

diet violation that happened in the past? Not that I am so fast to

give up on the enzymes. The enzymes have made a big difference for

, and both times the school goofed there was obvious behavioral

consequences, so it cant just be a coincidence. Still there is a limit

to how long can stay not getting back to the original good

" enzyme behavior " with me continuing to blame it on one event. At some

point we will have to say oh well, maybe these enzymes aren?t working

anymore.?

From: lo_eve@y... Date: Sun May 27, 2001 4:01 am, Mon May 28,

2001 2:50 pm

?We have gone to the wedding last night, food were not serve until 8pm

and was already hungry when we got there (6pm), so I gave him

the CFGF spaghetti with Peps and Z. Later at around 8:30pm seem

to be hungry again but I didn't bring extra so I decided to let him

have some noodles and some sandwich from the party with the Peps and

Z. had a bit of the noodles and didn't like it, so we gave him

a bit on the egg sandwich and his ears turned red right away and seem

not like it that much, so I took out the egg and just give him the

bread. He ate the bread (very small amount, just a few bits and that

was all he had) but this ears continue to turn red and seem to

space out (never have that problem before). I gave another Peps

and his ears became not as red but were pink the whole time!? [NB: Egg

is a primary source of lutein]

From: lo_eve@y... Mon May 28, 2001 2:50 pm

?My son is having Constipation for a few days now and I have no idea

why or what to do! With so many events in the passed few days

(Thursday, we when out for dinner and have a full non-GFCF food

with Peps and Zs, Friday was the wedding, Saturday was my daughter's

piano recital and today is church day) my son didn't really have much

chance to have a regular BM schedule! I put him in the bathroom for a

long while after dinner (that is his usual schedule) but he just

cannot do it!

had a non-GFCF meal almost everyday since this passed Thursday

(accept yesterday)with the enzymes and I am wondering could it be the

Casein and Gluten backing up in his system???.... Today, had

Boston Chicken (GFCF) but I let him have some corn bread (non-GFCF)

and a very, very small piece of macaroni and cheese. He didn't have

any red ear or any sight of reaction but seem to be moody and some

time I think he may be kind of space out(?). Could this be a reaction

for non-GFCF food? I am just not sure! Just watching him enjoy his

food was a blessing but if the enzymes are not helping him with the

non-GFCF food then I will have to go back to 100%GFCF + all other

foods which he is allergic to(really don't want to do that)! Also

tonight didn't eat much of his dinner, usually dinner is his

biggest meal and he was always hungry for it!?

From: fsalberger@h... Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 8:28 am

?Björn has been on enzymes for one month now. Successfully. Still on a

strict GFCF diet. I decided today to take the plunge and gave him

first one pep and one zyme plus regular corn flakes with malt (coated

with peanuts and honey as well). He tolerates peanut very well. I

don't know about honey. He has never had some because the elisa test

showed allergy to honey. I observed him very carefully in the

following hours and saw a lot of toe walking (he has not walked on his

toes for nearly one year: we started the diet in june 2000), and bad

diarrhea just like when he was on gluten. So, I just wonder: was

it the gluten from the malt or was it just an allergic reaction to

honey? Shall I try the same challenge with regular corn flakes without

honey coating? Hard to say. Just wanted to share this experience.?

Fatima [NB: Yellow corn and most honey contain lutein]

From: " Lynn Kellner " <ricklynn@m...>Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 12:07 pm

I am at a crossroads about these enzymes. I need to try to disect what

other possibilities might be going on as to another apparent breakdown

after 4 days of gluten input with the use of Peptizyde. I really need

your help,

because if I can't get some other possible solutions to what may be

going on, I'm afraid that we'll have to call the experiment a loss,

and that we'll be back to the full gfcf diet. I'm so unsure of what is

happening with the gluten results. Could you tell me if it was you

whether you would stay the

course and make alterations (and what kind) or you would based on what

you read call it done and stay away from gluten and casein.

Reports from parents who feel the initial effects of the enzymes may

be wearing off are also increasing in number:

From: maryandphilip@h... Date: Wed Sep 12, 2001 1:21 pm

Subject: enzyme effect wearing off?

?Well, my son has been on enzymes now for about one month. At first, I

saw dramatic improvements in eye contact and he was just more mellow.

He has sensory integration dysfunction, so some of what I am seeing

now could be related to that and not necessarily enzymes or allergies,

but I am seeing a little more " wackiness " as of late. More like how he

was before enzymes. Do kids go through a period

where the effect seems to wear off??

From: Reynolds <lisa@r...>

Date: Fri Sep 14, 2001 5:32 am

Subject: Effects wearing off

?Someone mentioned that the good effects of the enzymes seemed to be

wearing off after a couple of months. I'm seeing something like that

too. We've been on enzymes for 2.5 months. Got my son's constipation

under control and behavior seemed to be improving. Constipation now

seems to be returning as well as some old undesirable behaviors. I'm

looking for other sources of the problem but nothing is jumping out at

me.?

" armomus " <lindarb17@h...> Wed Jul 3, 2002 6:13 pm

Subject: Has anyone experienced this?

My dd went gfcf Feb. 2000 without much trouble. She started Houston

enzymes in March of this year and saw some improvement so beginning in

June I started reintroducing a regular diet and did not get a

negative reaction. Last week we ran out of enzymes so I put her back

on a gfcf diet with hfs enzymes. She easily accepted the gfcf food at

mealtime, but has started sneaking cheese and bread; something she

never did before. Now I'm getting tantrumming, and spacey stimmey

behavior, which is usually pretty mild. I'm confused now as to whether

this means she really can't tolerate the gluten and casien, or that

she only tolerates it enzymes. I don't think it is just that she

misses regular food as that wouldn't really explain the behavior and

she is eating gfcf food without a fuss. Any ideas?

From: ourthree@a... Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 10:47 am

Subject: Please help

I have been following the amazing success stories of some of your

children for some time and decided to try enzymes for my 11 year old

son. He has never been on a restricted diet and has no known food

sensitivity, although he is a picky eater. About 1 month ago, my son

began Houston ZymePrime (1/2 capsule at every meal), which was

increased to one capsule per meal over the course of a week. He

tolerated this well and his behavior was good. (During the school year

he had episodes of aggressive, angry behavior which had leveled out

over the preceding 2 months.) He then began Peptizyde, in the same

manner. For the past 2 weeks, he has taken both enzymes at every meal.

Unfortunately, my son's behavior is getting worse. He has an extremely

short fuse, is verbally abusive, has tic-like mannerisms, and is

agitated on a daily basis. This may occur for a maximum of 20 minutes,

on and off during the day, until I can get him to his room for a

time-out. He returns calm, mellow, and very sorry. I am very confused

since he has a history of similar problems, although not as frequent

or severe. I don't know whether the enzymes are having no effect on

him or are causing the behavior(die-off). Any input would be greatly

appreciated. I'm torn between stopping completely, riding this out, or

trying something different. At this point I am clueless.

Thanks so much. Jean

Maybe of more concern is the reports of irritation to the mouth which

include sores and burned lips, mouth and throat irritation:

From: " hickeyadk " <hickeyadk@y...> Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:23 pm

Subject: Worried about mouth/throat irritation

My son is not much of a drinker plus still uses a sippy cup. I have

been using smooshed banana on a spoon to get in the enzymes (open the

capsule and hide half of contents inside covered by more banana) I

have noticed him putting his tongue down in front of his lower gums

and into his side cheek alot and wonder if his tongue or mouth is sore

from the enzymes. He will not tell me if something hurts (I guess

rather he cannot tell me) even though he is getting more verbal. I try

to look but all I see is a red dot on upper lip on the outside. He

drinks very little even when I beg him to drink after the banana. Can

the irritation build up over time and become a problem? How would I

know if it was irritating his throat? Thanks H.

From: goodnightstar@a... Date: Sat May 11, 2002 12:24 am

Subject: " Burned " Looking lips?

Hi,

My son has been on the enzymes AFP and NF for almost three weeks, with

great results. We mix one of both of them with Alpha ENF powder (an

enteric supplement, vitamins and amino acids), then blend them with

cold orange juice.

But, this morning, I notice that his lips look like they've been

" burned " .....lots of redness and swelling, and a small sore on his

lower lip. Has anyone had any experiences with the enzymes " burning "

the lips? Or should I consider some other possible thing going on?

His lips are very sensitive...he wouldn't drink his juice this

morning, so he got no enzymes :c(

Liane

[NB: Orange juice contains also lutein]

From: ckelley100@h... Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 10:12 am

Subject: Enzymes on skin.

This is just an FYI. I thought my son was having a strange skin

reaction to the enzymes. He had two dry, red patches on the skin above

his mouth. While in school, I was sending the enzymes in a

small plastic Gerber juice jar mixed with a little juice. I finally

realized that when he drank the juice, the jar was touching the skin

above his mouth and the enzymes were " burning " the skin there. Now,

if he has the enzymes in juice, I make sure he wipes his mouth.

From: JSPrigmore@m... Date: Tue Jul 10, 2001 2:15 pm Subject: cold

sores?

I'm not sure if this is related but my son is 6 and just started the

enzymes last Friday (so three days now). He has never, ever had a cold

sore before and suddenly he has one.. Is it possible this is from the

enzymes? If so, should I do something different? He doesn't swallow

pills so I put them in his drinks, he seems to be taking them fine

that way. It may not even be related but I just wanted to make sure..

thanks! Austie's mom

From: " saral " <vze2cfw8@v...> Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 1:39 pm

Subject: Re: [ ] mouth irritation?

My son's gums are red and bleeding, and irritated looking, right

around the upper front teeth. He cannot swallow a pill so I give the

enzymes in applesauce usually, and he tends to use those upper teeth

to bite it off the spoon, he often eats this ways too. I think the

enzymes are burning his gums, I stopped them today and the redness is

better. How can I give them to him without getting it on his gums? Or

is there a more buffering kind of food/liquid to put them in? He won't

drink juice with them. I really need to

get him back on the enzymes because he's already not going to sleep

tonight.

Sara

From: kjorn@t...

Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 1:58 pm

Subject: Re: mouth irritation?

Sara,

This has been brought up before, so you are not the first. It is fine

for him to eat the applesauce this way, but make sure he washes it

down (and therefore the enzymes off his gums) with some water or

juice. One thought would be to mixed the enzymes in the first few

spoonfuls and then give the rest of the applesauce without enzymes.

The applesauce will help wash it down. Or is there a " special " drink

he could have...like chocolate milk or something? Just a little bit to

get the enzymes down.

Glad the enzymes are helping. Could you post what kinds of

improvements you are seeing? Are you using this with GFCF foods or

non-GFCF foods? Hope he is feeling better.

.

From: " saral " <vze2cfw8@v...>

Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 2:57 pm

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: mouth irritation?

, thanks but I've already done all that, he always drinks after

and I often give him plain applesauce afterward. I don't think it's

getting the enzymes down that's the problem, I think they are burning

his mouth on contact and I guess I wanted to put them in something

very buffering or to maybe I will try shooting the enzymes in some

juice to the back of his mouth with a medicine spoon/cup.

I've already posted about some benefits I saw, not much right now

other than better sleep. But he keeps getting strep so it's hard to tell.

Sara

[NB: Increased susceptibility to Strep overgrowth, toxic strep

syndrome has been associated with dairy protein in the diet]

From: chetmiller@m...

Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 3:20 pm

Subject: Re: mouth irritation?

Sara,

Do you think your son would sip the applesauce out of a thick straw?

My son's lips and space where he is missing his two bottom teeth :-)

were burning, so he now drinks the juice/enzymes out of a straw. I

have had no complaints.

God Bless, Sally

Some also report blood in the stool:

From: " Jody G. " <momtobandj@e...> Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:07 am

Subject: Blood in stool

Here is a question for all of you experts.

Whenever I have run out of enzymes, my son (age 5.9) ends up with

blood in his stool.

When I call his pediatrician's office, I am given the brush off answer

of " he probably just has a small tear near his anal opening " , which I

know is not true in his case.

Does anyone know what type of condition(s) would cause significant

amounts of red blood

From: " kelly Coughlin " <kc62765@a...> Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 1:26 pm

Subject: Blood in stool /

Hi

Does anyone know if enzymes could contribute to blood in the stool?

The stool was not loose , but bordline rabbit pellets except that it

came out whole. Normally it is much looser . Does

enzyme use require that one would need to drink more fluid. Could

enzymes be irritating the gut or intestines ?

I have noticed a few things lately that seem positive, like much more

conversational. I am using very small amounts every other day . He is

strictly GF/CF. I also noticed some strange night peeing. That

is most unusual for him. Jury is still out on enzymes. if they are

contributing to his improved conversational ability that would be

great , but not if they are causing pain in his bowels or urinary

tract . I almost thought he had stones the other night. He was rubbing

himself crazy . It subsided the next day so it didn't seem to be a

yeast thing. what do you think?

kelly

No results at all

From: " mikoface2002 " <mikoface2002@y...> Date: Fri May 31, 2002 2:29 am

Subject: No results at all

Hi all,

We have been giving (3.5 yrs) Zyme for 4 weeks ( 1 cap)and Pep

for about three weeks (1/2 cap). Although I saw an increase in

stimming and hyperactivity in the beginning (it has now decreased) I

have not seen any positive or negative results with the enzymes.

Does this mean he was not G/C intolerant to begin with? Should I

increase his dosage? Should I stop it completely?

Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

Jackie

Rashes:

From: alison1wls@a...

Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:43 am

Subject: Rash on face

Is it normal to have a red blotchy rash on the cheeks and chin when

starting enzymes? Oliver has been on pep for 1 week tomorrow, 1 a day.

He is definitely having more tantrums and is so hyperactive and

stimming alot. He has been on probio gold for 2 weeks 1 a day but did

not see this reaction with them, assuming and am absolutely certain it

is the enzymes.

Thanks

Alison

From: nixmom2001@y...

Date: Sat Sep 22, 2001 10:33 am

Subject: Help-rash after three days of enzymes

From: " Timary " <timary@c...> Date: Thu May 24, 2001 12:22 am

Subject: bumpy skin This may be a little off topic, but does anyone

know what could cause " bumpy " skin? My 4 yr old son's skin in

certain areas has lots of small bumps - looks like a tiny version of

goosebumps. They are not red and do not itch that I can tell and seem

to be mostly on the hips and back of legs. The Ped. has said it is

only mild dermatitis, but it is still disquieting for me. could it be

a diet problem?

thank you all,

timary

Allergic reactions:

From: " hickeyadk " <hickeyadk@y...>

Date: Mon Jul 8, 2002 4:08 pm

Subject: Yeast confusion/exhaustion

I am pretty frustrated with this long lasting yeast issue. My son has

had it for 3 years. I am avoiding anymore prescription antifungals. I

need to know, does peptizyde and zyme help to kill yeast? I have

continued both with my son who is GFCF and he does seem to be speaking

clearer and more. I tried the GSE and nofenol combo. and it appeared

like an allergic reaction with red itchy eyes ,swelling of

eyes and congestion. I stopped both . I need to know if pept and zyme

help control yeast if taken with other supplements like strong

probiotics, lots of garlic in food and MSM and coenzyme Q10. He

presently takes all of them. Maybe I could try just the GSE or just

the NF....do you need both to kill the darn stuff? Then I begin to

think maybe this yeast thing is a " fad " like my neurologist told me 3

years ago and that if I had my own stool tested I would be full of it

too. My son doesn't show signs of a rash or yeasty stool but everytime

we do a stool test it shows 4+!! Any suggestions? Thanks

H.

From: jbloemker@v... Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 5:35 am Subject: After

A Few Weeks...

Subject: After A Few Weeks...

Well, we've been using the Houston enzymes for a few weeks now. I

can't say that we've been great in administering them (there are meals

where he hasn't gotten them). Since our 4 1/2 year old son

seems like the poster boy for phenols (dark eye circles, stims, flaps

and shakes when excited, and has had a reaction to apples), we have

tried one of each at mealtime, one Peptizide and two Zyme Primes, and

sometimes just 1-2 Zyme Primes with no Peptizide (he doesn't seem to

have gluten/casein issues).

The only bounce we seem to have gotten (which may be a coincidence)

was that we no longer have to put a pull-up on him at night. We don't

recognize any better language, calmness, or less stims. We

have even introduced Taurine (1 gram) to try to control his stimming,

but he stims on. His language and mindset seem to be that of an early

three-year-old (some might say a late two-year-old). If we

could bring that up, we'd live with the stims.

Should we just stay the course and give it more time, or if we don't

see a big bounce by now, are we pretty unlikely to see one? Thanks!

Also, if anybody has some plan of action that we haven't tried

(outside of going phenol-free), please let us know!

Jim Bloemker :-)

From: " treed6386 " <_@i...> Date: Fri May 31, 2002 7:32 am

My daughter is having an allergic type reaction on the left side of

her face, including her eye. It's a little droopy too, and I'm trying

to figure out if this is a black fly bite, or something to do with

No-Fenol. Anyone else out there seen this?

She is having a rather good response to the No-Fenol though after

taking it for 4 days.

Thanks ?

From: " mamommy200136695 " <mamommy2001@a...> Date: Tue May 21, 2002

2:12 am

Subject: red cheeks/food reaction with enzymes

Last night my son had red cheeks (with high pitched screaming) for the

first time ever. He had spaghetti with 1 AFP Pep, 1 Zyme Prime, and

1/2 No Fenol. He is also on carnosine and MT Primer. Does anyone on

this list have experience with increased food reactions while taking

these supplements? He's been doing fairly well with increased

language/awareness but I've started giving 1/2 No Fenol with GSE in

between meals because of some silly behavior.

Vicki

Distended stomach

From: sqrlklr2001@y... Date: Sun Sep 9, 2001 12:35 am

Subject: Very Noticeable Distended Stomach -- On Enzymes 6 Weeks

My son has been on Devin's enzymes for about 6 weeks now and I've

noticed over the last couple of weeks especially that his stomach has

definitely gotten bigger. It's very rounded out - like a balloon

belly! And it's not rock hard, although it does feel somewhat hard. He

is also taking the BrainChild Nutritionals 3X/day with his meals.

Also, he has been getting gluten and some casein with most of his

meals (along with the enzymes that I open up and give with the first

few bites of food). His eye contact is not great either. I really have

to get his attention to have him look at me even for a second or

two. He is more sensitive to sound too. He covers his ears a lot when

people talk at even a slightly higher than normal level that are close

by. He also still has dark circles under his eyes, sneezes

more and seems more congested (puts fingers in his nose indicating his

frustration).

I posted one time earlier (but have been lurking every day since) and

indicated his perseverative behavior with the water in the bathroom

sink (he splashes water all over himself and the sink and floor)! He

still loves to do this. And when he listens to his children-singing

CD's he pushes you away a lot so he can be alone with it...

On the plus side, he does seem more aware of his surroundings, eats

happier, less stress on the family since not 100% on the GFCF diet, he

likes his parents to pick him up and " jump " (lift him up in the

air 7 or 8 times in a row and then will keep gesturing for this type

of stimulation), will give you " kisses " and affection when you ask.

Right now, however, I am mainly concerned with the distended stomach.

I've researched this and it seems it could be from overgrowth of yeast

or from his diet -- gluten and casein. I was

hoping the enzymes were helping w/the g & c... I'm in the process of

ordering the Culturelle from Kirkman; however, they must have a

problem w/their website because I can't put a product in my " shopping

cart " . I tried several times and it takes me to another page to

correct my computer's cookies to " enable " and it has already been set

at that so I don't know the problem there.

Anyone know of another good probiotic I could buy at a HFS? Also, I've

read that Nystatin would be good to try as an anti-fungal. Anyone

think I should go this route too?

Thanks for any input. Sorry for such a long post; but again, I like to

give as clear a picture as possible...

Tammy

Loose stools and diarrhea

From: jackvero@y...

Date: Tue Sep 4, 2001 4:18 pm Subject: Diarreah 2 weeks

I have been using both Houston enzymes on my 3.8 year old for about a

month with pretty good results. Previously he had been GFCF for about

a year and I had reintroduced gluten just before starting

enzymes. I challenged him with diary about 2 weeks ago and he has had

diarreah ever since. He has not had anymore diary since that time but

still the diarrhea continues.

Could it take as long as 2 weeks for the diary to get out of his system?

Could the diarrhea be a delayed reaction to the gluten ? He never had

diarrhea before GFCF.

Could the diarrhea be a delayed reaction to the enzymes?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Josie

From: evelyn.mendez@P...

Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 2:39 am Subject: Loose Stools

My daughter na has been on peptizyde for 3 weeks now. She has 1

capsules(mixed in juice) before or after each meals and snacks. After

the first week she started to have normal stools. Her second week she

started again with loose stools. This past Saturday (3rd week on pep)

I added Zyme prime to see if it would help and it hasn't. Any

suggestion? The only food that I didn't remove since starting the gfcf

diet is spaghetti. Everything else is gfcf.

From: shelgrainger1@a... Date: Wed May 29, 2002 2:26 am

Subject: TOO MUCH ENZYMES?

Hi all,

My son Mikey has been on one capsule of Pepitzyde and one capsule of

HZ Zyme Prime for 8 days now. They seem to be working wonders with the

non GFCF food he is having but his stools are very runny and frequent.

Could I be giving him too much enzyme?

Any advice would be greatly received.

Thanks

Michele

From: runmoon@a... Date: Mon May 20, 2002 4:48 pm

Subject: Non-Stop Diarrhea since Enzymes

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this. We went from being

GFCF (for only 3 weeks), to having 2 enzymes with every illegal meal.

My daughter used to have diarrhea about 25% of the month (prior to

GFCF). Since enzymes she has it every single day. She's been on the

enzymes about a month and is not GFCF.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Seta

Better off without GFCF diet but not with enzymes

From: lovell@i...

Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 7:58 am

Subject: Only one here without a success story?

I've read so many wonderful things about enzymes that I did try both

the peps and z-prime on my 3.6 year old ASD son. He had been on the

GFCF diet for about 1.5 years. After a host of other biomedical

interventions, he was able to be completely taken off the diet in 2/01

with no issues, problems, regressions etc. Quite honestly, going off

the diet has only lead to improvements. Nothing against the diet; he

did need it at the time per his IgE, IgA, IgG, and lots of other

tests. I do not regret for one minute having him on the diet at the time.

I tried the enzymes with negative reactions. My son also reacted badly

to serenaid. Discussions with Devin indicated that the source of the

problem might be a few items in the PEPS and we will have

clinical testing done within the next few months to see if indeed he

has other underlying allergy issues which we had not formally tested

for in the past. I did try the z-prime in isolation and saw nothing

notable either good or bad except that it gave him persistent diarrhea

and I think the enzymes are one of the best solvents I have ever

found. I can turn yogurt into water in seconds flat with them. From

what I have read from the success stories, it seems like the kids

these enzymes work for have overnight (literally) successes. Any like

mine out there? Anyone have to wait more than a month to see ANYTHING

positive? I do have unopened bottles of the Kirkman's stuff and

wondering if it might be worth a try.

From: Cannon <jcannon@i...>

Date: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:15 am

Subject: Enzyme frustration

It seems to me that the HN Zyme Prime and the Peptizyde are doing more

harm than help to my son. I have posted about him before. He is a high

functioning 4 year old who is 100% GFCF. I wanted to use the peptizyde

to catch any accidental infractions or cross contamination problems

and the HN

Zyme Prime to help him with general digestion and and breaking down

phenols (which are a concern for me....he does not get hyper...seems a

little spacier when he has them)

I give him the Peptizyde when I am concerned about possible cross

contamination (Mc's fries or items that look okay from the

ingredients, but I have not verified cross contamination issues). I have

been giving him 1 capsule (he is approximately 50 pounds and has a

good appetite). I am mixing with juice or sprinkling on his food.

I give him the HN Zyme Prime with most meals, and always if they

contain foods high in phenols. (1 capsule)

He has always had good, solid bowel movements, but since starting

these enzymes we have had on & off bouts with diarrhea. He also

complains of stomach aches within the half hour of taking them. He is

very verbal and can express this to me. It is also verified by extreme

flatulance and grabbing his stomach. I am sure that he felt better

before the enzymes. I would just take him off, but I don't want to

give up yet because the peace of mind I get from countering any

possible contamination is so great!

I give him a very healthy diet (basic meals: ex. chicken, gfcf bread,

vegetables) with a limited amount of sugar. We also use high quality

oils. (Trips to Mcs are few and far between)

Let me give you an example: this morning we had homemade sorghum

pancakes for breakfast (1 ZP, 1 PEP) and he had a horrible

stomachache. A few hours later he wanted EnerG pretzels for a snack.

These contain soy and I understand that soy can show up in the urine

peptide test, so I gave him

1/2 capsule of the peptizyde...another stomachache!

Could the peptizyde be hurting his stomach if he is not consuming

foods that have gluten and casein in them? Do you see problems in my

dosing? Is 1 capsule too much? (He is 50 pounds and has a big

appetite). WHY WOULD HIS STOMACH HURT?

My plan is to take him completely off the enzymes, then give him the

HN Zyme Prime (1/2 capsule) for a couple days and then increase it to

1 capsule. If all goes well, then I will introduce peptizyde (1/2

capsule) and work up to 1 capsule.

I am also going to start taking them myself to see how I feel.

What do you think? I'd love to hear any of your experiences or

suggestions! (Devin???)

Thanks,

Jen

Constipation

From: maccabeus@...: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:24 PM

Hi All:

My older son, , was having what I thought was a strange reaction

to the enzymes which was a sort of facial stimming like grimacing. He

hadn't been doing this in a long time and then it was back big time

for a couple of weeks. It seems to be diminishing now. I give him his

enzymes in pear sauce just prior to eating because he refuses to take

them in his juice. The enzymes really constipate him so maybe I need

to increase his roughage?

Also both my sons MUST HAVE their probiotics or the loose bowels come

back and they get terrible breath. I think my older son does much

better with colostrum too - seems to calm him down somewhat.

I just wish I could find something to deal with anxiety. So far,

nothing I've been doing has helped that one issue very much (this with

my older son). Does anyone know if folic acid helps with anxiety? I

tried using GABA, which is supposed to calm kids down, but it didn't

seem to help much. I may try it again.

Thanks to all for your help.

( & Malachi's mom)

From: lo_eve@y... Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:50 pm Subject:

Constipation!

Hi all,

My son is having Constipation for a few days now and I have no idea

why or what to do! With so many events in the passed few days

(Thursday, we when out for dinner and have a full non-GFCF

food with Peps and Zs, Friday was the wedding, Saturday was my

daughter's piano recital and today is church day) my son didn't really

have much chance to have a regular BM schedule! I put him in

the bathroom for a long while after dinner (that is his usual

schedule) but he just cannot do it!

had a non-GFCF meal almost everyday since this passed Thursday

(accept yesterday)with the enzymes and I am wondering could it be the

Casein and Gluten backing up in his system???.... Today, had

Boston Chicken (GFCF) but I let him have some corn bread (non-GFCF)

and a very, very small piece of macaroni and cheese. He didn't have

any red ear or any sight of reaction but seem to be moody and some

time I think he may be kind of space out(?). Could this be a reaction

for non-GFCF food? I am just not sure! Just watching him enjoy his

food was a blessing but if the enzymes are not helping him with the

non-GFCF food then I will have to go back to 100%GFCF + all other

foods which he is allergic to(really don't want to do that)! Also

tonight didn't eat much of his dinner, usually dinner is his

biggest meal and he was always hungry for it!

Anyway, could some of you give me some suggestion on the Constipation?

Is there anything he should be taking to help him on this? Thanks

again for all your help!

Eve

Regression

From: Sumuz2@a...

Date: Wed Sep 26, 2001 3:08 pm

Subject: Frustration

Hi everyone,

I hate to say it, but this isn't going to work for my son's Asperger's

Syndrome. He can't remember to take it consistently enough to even get

through the first 3 weeks! I can't be there at the High School, or at

his dad's to make sure that he takes it. It's terribly frustrating, as

we had very high hopes about this stuff. We just can't stand to live

with Mr. Hyde around here anymore and this definitely made him

crabbier, spacier and more unmotivated. Geez! He's enough like that as

a teenager! But after nearly 3 weeks and no real improvement and his

confession that he forgets to take it, it makes no sense to continue

to do this to him, or us. There's just no light at the end of this

tunnel. So I guess it's back to medication roulette.

However, maybe I'll try this for myself. Who knows, it might help my

chronic fatigue, or the multiple sensitivities, or maybe even the

Fibromaylgia. Has anyone heard whether or not it helps with kidney

stones? I'd be very interested to know this, as I've just gone through

round two with the nasty things.

Sue

From: " Niesen, " <yniesen@n...>

Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 3:59 pm

So what do you think? Is the manic behavior a result of the enzymes

working or not working? Has giving Dan the enzymes created some

counter indications with one or more of the supplements and

medications? Maybe we need to adjust the depakote? We see the

psychiatrist next week but frankly, he is not any help when I start to

talk about diet and supplements. My inclination today is to try to get

Dan back on the GF/CF diet and only use the enzymes when we are

planning a diet accident. Is there something I missed in using the

enzymes? Any and all advice and comments are welcome.

You know, after seven years immersed in the world of autism, I'm not

so much looking for a cure, as much as for things that will make Dan

and my family's life easier and more enjoyable. I had hoped the

enzymes might be one of those things. Sorry for the length of the post

and thanks for your help.

yniesen@n...

From: " Nikita28j " <CristinaPip@a...>

Date: Tue Oct 30, 2001 4:52 am

Subject: Enzymes? (long sorry)

Hi all, I usually just read messages and try to learn from what I

read, as I do not feel so knowledgeable on the subject yet.

Anyway, now I come up with some doubts and like to figure out my

things, so if anyone there can give me " straight " answers and what I

should be seeing it would be great.

I have put my son on HNI Enzymes for 9 weeks tomorrow. , my son,

is 5 yo and has ASD, and has been gfcf for six + months now.

The first day we gave him enzymes we had a " planned " infraction, since

we had to be out of the home around lunchtime, and he didn't seem to

be affected by the non gfcf foods.

So that surprised me.

But after over two months now, I was wondering what other improvements

I should have seen? I thought his stools would have improved and they

haven't; I thought his behavior would have too.

Seems like he gets hyper anyway. I thought better digestion of foods

would have made all things better. I am using one Pep and one Zyme at

b'fast, and 2 each at lunch and supper. I use none at snack, and he

has one snack at school and one at home, but sometimes he skips them

(at least the home one) and he doesn't always eat big amount of food

at snack, so I did not think that was necessary.

Now here are my 1 billion $$ questions

_What kind of improvements should I have seen by now? Both physical

(his stools and such) and emotional (behaviorally); any kind also the

smallest thing you can think of.

_Is there anything I am doing wrong? Should I give him more enzymes,

less?

_I have not tested him for PST issues, tho I limit his phenolic foods

to the mornings only, because he gets very uncontrollable when he has

some and then I have a hard time for him complying or sleeping. Is

there anything else I should do?

_I do Epsom baths at night. Any suggestion on those? (maybe off topic)

Anything else any of you can think of, pls share ideas. I have no clue

what I am doing wrong, and I need to get a grip on his behaviors,

tantruming etc.

I started thinking nothing is working anymore, not the ABA, not the

gfcf diet, not the enzymes...help..

Thank you in advance.

Cristina-WA

Proud mom to 4yr 10 mo ASD, & 2.2 yo NT twins.

From: " Jacqui " <jjnw34324@c...>

Date: Tue Oct 30, 2001 7:55 pm

Subject: peptizide and gluten- need some advice please!

Hi anyone

I am in a dilemma now because I started the enzymes because my 8 yr

old son ( coeliac/AD/HD) is obviously getting contaminated with gluten

at school. He has, what seems to be DH, within two days of going to

school, but it never ever happens at home (apart from with the

accidental infringement the

other day). He had the most awful reaction I have ever seen, after

taking the peptizide and then accidentally eating gluten. His coeliac

was discovered by jejunal biopsy when he was 2. If the peptizide

causes this reaction, but yet that is why I needed it for him ( he is

totally GF/CF) then what do I do now?

Devin- have you any ideas please?

Thanks

Jacqui

From: melmagnus@a...

Date: Tue Oct 30, 2001 6:51 am

Subject: worse: hyper, tongue out

Hi,

My 7 year old HFA son has been on HN Zyme 6 days. He is so much worse,

I'm sure whether to continue. He is not GFCF. We've done scratch and

blood tests (RAST) to verify he is not allergic to wheat and dairy. He

is sensitive to phenol foods, thus the Zyme.

Since starting zyme, he is wild, running, very loud, sticks his tongue

alot in a bizarre way. I have seen no positive gains. The school is

very unhappy. I'll stick with it if I get some encouragement,

otherwise...

Melody

From: SGGRAHA@A...

Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 8:19 am

Subject: I AM NOT SURE HERE....HELP!

Hi,

I'm a little clueless here, well very clueless actually so I'd love

anyone's advice...I've had Ty on Pep for 11 days now, 4 being 100%

because we started gradually since not on the GFCF diet. He will only,

and I mean ONLY, take the enzyme in a drink. The only, and I mean

ONLY, drinks he will take it in is tea or caf.free Dr. Pepper. The

past 3 days he will not finish all of his drink even though I am only

filling about a fourth full. Therefore, I know he's getting some of

the enzyme but definitely not all. I've tried giving the enzyme other

ways and he will not do it. He's almost 3 and has no concept of you

have to do this...I have seen him go from MAJOR HYPER to MAJOR CALM

these past 11 days. Everything else he still seems to be regressing

on. He majorly obsesses over certain toys....and pacifier is always

wanted now...Do you suggest just keep on doing what I'm doing and at

least he will get part of the enzyme or will that not fully let his

body digest the bad stuff the way it should thus causing regression

that never goes away? I have tried reducing the amount of drink as

much as I can....I've tried a dropper, he spits it right at me.. I'm

really stressing over this badly, I'm due to have my 3rd child in 3

weeks and was hoping to have a better grip on this situation before

then. From most posts I've read it seems

like it is really hard for these young (3andunder) to get these things

down.

Thanks all...

Sheri

From: tazelaar@m...

Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 9:35 am

Subject: Help! I think my son is regressing!

I've been using enzymes since peptizyde came out, but only to cheat on

the gfcf diet. Well, We've been cheating ALOT lately (been on

vacation). I've noticed that is back to shaking his head after

a meal with alot of dairy. Now today he woke up from a nap having a

terrible temper tantrum. This used to happen before the diet, but

disappeared. Any thoughts?

From: eric.r.williams@m...

Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 4:20 am

Subject: Suspending enzymes for a while

Ethan's excessive eye blinking has not stopped. I appreciate that it

might be a die-off reaction... but we are going to err on the side of

caution and stop enzymes for a while to see if the problem gets better.

We are also starting to use activated charcoal, just in case it is a

die-off issue.

We have so many things going on right now..... but we did have a

number of positives yesterday.

We got 's endoscopy test results. She does not have celiac

disease! It is just an intolerance to gluten. The stool tests,

however, showed a giardia infection. So, of course, they prescribed

Flagyl.

Ethan was never tested for giardia. But he started Flagyl 3 days ago

because of an amoebic something or other test that was positive. Lo

and behold, Ethan has had a poop every day since he started Flagyl.

And yesterday, he had a formed and solid BM --- the first in a very

long time. The same day Ethan started Flagyl, we also started a

sucrose-free and no fruit diet. So, we don't really know which change

is responsible for the improvement. (Or whether it is the enzymes x

1.5 weeks or the nystatin x 3 weeks or a combination of all of the

above......)

Anyway... I hope we're zeroing in on something.

-eric

From: eric.r.williams@m...

Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:43 am

Subject: Update and a question

Ethan (3yo) has been off enzymes for over 5 days now, and the

excessive eye blinking has (mostly) resolved. During this time, we

have continued the Nystatin, Flagyl, Culturelle, and activated

charcoal... and we have avoided fruit and sucrose. The Flagyl was

prescribed for entamoeba histolytica. The no-fruit diet was suggested

by the pediatric gastroenterologist.

During the last week, Ethan has returned to having (multiple) daily

BMs that are formed and solid. And he has started gaining weight. It

is funny to get excited about regular BMs... but we have struggled with

this for such a long time, and it is very exciting to feel that Ethan

is making real progress.

I'm not sure if we are going to try enzymes again. Was the eye

blinking associated with the yeast/bacteria die-off? Or was it because

of the enzymes? And if the enzymes contributed to the eye blinking....

was that a positive (extra alertness/clarity) or a negative

(irritation)? We just

don't know right now.

One thing I am curious about, though. Even though Ethan's BMs are now

solid, there is still a lot of undigested matter in the stool. Is this

normal? Or is it indicative of a different problem... something that

enzymes might help with? We have stopped giving him whole kernel corn

because it comes out exactly like it goes in.

An interesting tidbit: found some research that suggests

disaccharide intolerance and malabsorbtion can be associated with

entamoeba histolytica and giardi infection. 40% of these types of

infections show disaccharide intolerance.

Stomach aches

From: " jacqui " <jjnw34324@c...>

Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 1:39 am

Subject: Withdrawals

Hi all,

thanks for asking about Ben the other day. I never got round to

posting because I was too upset.

For some strange reason he has come back to earth today. Eye contact

back, all of his lovely, crazy ways back and the most normal looking

poo he has ever had (although the man who came to fix the dishwasher

did discover this by getting it stuck to the bottom of his shoe!) I

haven't got a clue why he was like that and every enzyme I gave him, I

felt as if I was poisoning him but I stuck it out because I felt it

was some readjustment thing. All very scary. The closest thing he has

had to this was an accidental dairy infringement (a full tup of cream

cheese!) and he didn't react at all till the next day then dropped out

of this world for just 24 hrs.I am now looking forward to some good stuff.

The other 2 started back with theirs yesterday after their severe

stomach pains.

Jacqui

From: Cannon <jcannon@i...> Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:28 am

Subject: Stomach aches

We have been using peptizyde & HN-Zyme Prime for 3 days now. My son is

still GFCF. He has been on the diet for 3 months now. I can't say that

I have seen much improvement from the diet, but I am determined to

stay with it just in case. He is very high functioning, has good sleep

patterns, is

pleasant (90% of the the time), and has always had normal bowel

movements. Because of all of these things he had a late diagnosis (4.3

years old).

I was hoping that these enzymes would be a great help for him.

However, he has had stomach aches and diahrrea the past 3 days. Is

this from the enzymes?

I really don't think it's because of " withdrawal " . We have been so

careful and so basic on the diet...very slim chance that he was having

infractions! He has been the most amazing sport about it.

Are any of you experiencing stomach aches and diahrrea? I thought that

the enzymes were supposed help bowel movements. My son's were fine

before we started and now they're not! I'd love to hear any ideas.

Jen

From: Penny Galloup <mcksmom@t...> Date: Sun Jul 22, 2001 4:10 am

Subject: Help...my kid seems in pain

The last two days my son has been in pain. He is non-verbal but is

going ballistic. Here's what I've been doing. I started the Houston

Enzymes two weeks ago. I got excited about giving him regular food

after being on the diet 19 months. All seemed to be fine except the

last two days. The only difference is I've been giving more enzymes. I

started out with about 4 of each of the two per day. Yesterday I was

giving one of each every 90 minutes so he could eat whenever.

Yesterday I probably gave him 7 of each. The other strange thing is,

he seems to have an ongoing erection. He has to rub himself constantly

and he's screaming out like he's in pain. He has had bowel movements

every night. They are looser than usual. So have I given him too many

enzymes or is it the food that's effecting him. I can't stand to see

him suffering like this. Please give me some suggestions.

Thanks

Penny

From: Cannon <jcannon@i...>

Date: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:15 am

Subject: Enzyme frustration

It seems to me that the HN Zyme Prime and the Peptizyde are doing more

harm than help to my son. I have posted about him before. He is a high

functioning 4 year old who is 100% GFCF. I wanted to use the peptizyde

to catch any accidental infractions or cross contamination problems

and the HN

Zyme Prime to help him with general digestion and and breaking down

phenols (which are a concern for me....he does not get hyper...seems a

little spacier when he has them)

I give him the Peptizyde when I am concerned about possible cross

contamination (Mc's fries or items that look okay from the

ingredients, but I have not verified cross contamination issues). I have

been giving him 1 capsule (he is approximately 50 pounds and has a

good appetite). I am mixing with juice or sprinkling on his food.

I give him the HN Zyme Prime with most meals, and always if they

contain foods high in phenols. (1 capsule)

He has always had good, solid bowel movements, but since starting

these enzymes we have had on & off bouts with diarrhea. He also

complains of stomach aches within the half hour of taking them. He is

very verbal and can express this to me. It is also verified by extreme

flatulance and grabbing his stomach. I am sure that he felt better

before the enzymes. I would just take him off, but I don't want to

give up yet because the peace of mind I get from countering any

possible contamination is so great!

I give him a very healthy diet (basic meals: ex. chicken, gfcf bread,

vegetables) with a limited amount of sugar. We also use high quality

oils. (Trips to Mcs are few and far between)

Let me give you an example: this morning we had homemade sorghum

pancakes for breakfast (1 ZP, 1 PEP) and he had a horrible

stomachache. A few hours later he wanted EnerG pretzels for a snack.

These contain soy and I understand that soy can show up in the urine

peptide test, so I gave him

1/2 capsule of the peptizyde...another stomachache!

Could the peptizyde be hurting his stomach if he is not consuming

foods that have gluten and casein in them? Do you see problems in my

dosing? Is 1 capsule too much? (He is 50 pounds and has a big

appetite). WHY WOULD HIS STOMACH HURT?

My plan is to take him completely off the enzymes, then give him the

HN Zyme Prime (1/2 capsule) for a couple days and then increase it to

1 capsule. If all goes well, then I will introduce peptizyde (1/2

capsule) and work up to 1 capsule.

I am also going to start taking them myself to see how I feel.

What do you think? I'd love to hear any of your experiences or

suggestions! (Devin???)

Thanks,

Jen

Aggression

From: ourthree@a... Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 10:47 am

Subject: Please help

I have been following the amazing success stories of some of your

children for some time and decided to try enzymes for my 11 year old

son. He has never been on a restricted diet and has no known food

sensitivity, although he is a picky eater. About 1 month ago, my son

began Houston ZymePrime(1/2 capsule at every meal), which was

increased to one capsule per meal over the course of a week. He

tolerated this well and his behavior was good. (During the school year

he had episodes of aggressive, angry behavior which had leveled out

over the preceding 2 months.) He then began Peptizyde,in the same

manner. For the past 2 weeks, he has taken both enzymes at every meal.

Unfortunately, my son's behavior is getting worse. He has an extremely

short fuse, is verbally abusive, has tic-like mannerisms, and is

agitated on a daily basis. This may occur for a maximum of 20 minutes,

on and off during the day, until I can get him to his room for a

time-out. He returns calm, mellow, and very sorry. I am very confused

since he has a history of similar problems, although not

as frequent or severe. I don't know whether the enzymes are having no

effect on him or are causing the behavior(die-off). Any input would be

greatly appreciated. I'm torn between stopping completely, riding this

out, or trying something different. At this point I am clueless.

Thanks so much. Jean

From: dnbburns@f... Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 3:08 am Subject: rages

I just joined but have been doing the enz.(both) for about 2 wks. The

first wk was the best, then I made a few errors, my 8 yr old snuck

some stuff and the next wk.was rough. I thought I had been diligent

since the weekend but this morning, he took the pills, followed but

about 6 oz. of lemonade. He was not hungry - ate a few ritzbits (it

was very unusual that he didn't eat a GFCF waffle) and then erupted

when it was time to go to school. He did not hit, just screamed, was

weepy and I had to physically get him into the car. Were the pills not

working by reason of the tantrum or were they working by the fact

he didn't hit. I've seen a calmer, chattier child, but then these

eruptions remind me he's still autistic (pdd). what happens when they

take the pills but decide they aren't very hungry? Thanks,

DianeB.

From: " Ross " <momotrons@a...> Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 3:59 pm

In @y..., angelabredehoft@c... wrote:

> I believe all of you with your good results and couldn't be happier.

I'm just wishing that I was seeing something so positive. We are

seeing such mixed results that I can't figure out what's going on.

> Today my son's occupational therapist left a half hour early because

my son was stimming and completely uncooperative. She said she

hasn't seen that sort of behavior in well over a month and that his

language was poor. We've been on the enzymes for nine days. We have

never gone off GFCF. Though I have given some foods containing potato

starch and pear, which he is allergic to, and seen to reaction, this

morning I gave him some rice cereal and he went totally nuts. Last

night, for the first time in the nine days I forgot to give him the

enzymes with dinner and he seemed to do great. His speech therapist

believes she is seeing improvement with the little connector words and

with intelligibility. That was after five days of the enzymes. This

morning I saw aggressive behavior, athan pushed his sister in the

floor for no reason. It has been weeks since we've dealt

with any violence, and that is very difficult for me to tolerate. I

just don't know how long to give the enzymes before deciding if they

are working or not. We also seem to be getting really firm stools, and

less bm's than usual. At the same time he seems to be passing more

gas. My mother told me she felt this was a good thing, that maybe the

enzymes are just now getting to his system. Can anyone help me sort

all this?

From: lori silfee <loris18960@y...>

Date: Wed Sep 26, 2001 11:28 am

Subject: things are bad

My ten yr old son has been strictly gf/cf,egg free for 2 years. We

started the enzymes (Pep+prime)12 days ago. On about day eight

behavior started to decline. I have been giving 1 each before AM and

PM meals and snacks on school days and 1 each with all meals on

weekends (just until my MD comes through with the note for school to

give them. Behavior continues to deteriorate. He had been fairly calm

for 2 weeks before starting the enzymes but now is aggressing towards

teachers and other kids and tantruming at rage level. The episodes

number about 7 per day. He's out of control. I am aware that behaviors

can increase as exorphins decrease. He had 1 week of clinical mania

coming off dairy. How long should we tolerate the chaos? He reacts to

so many things perhaps he is reacting to the enzymes themselves. He

actually calms down in the afternoon when no enzyme is given at lunch.

Or, are we having a harder time because he hasn't been able to use

them with all meals as yet? Please give me some guidance!!! Lori

From: lori silfee <loris18960@y...>

Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 11:05 am

Subject: day 19 and no positives

I wrote previously that things were not going well when we were on

about day 12 of the enzymes (pep and

HN). I have a 10 yr.old with high functioning autism who has been

gf/cf/,egg free for two years. Back when we came off dairy he became

clinically manic for about 1 week and then didn't really show us

anything dramatic in the way of improvement. After he was fully off he

told me he had been scared. All treatments have yielded only subtle

changes in him. We have been using the enzymes for 19 days so far. We

gave them (1 each) with all home meals and all meals on weekends until

the past five days when we were able to also give them at school. He

remains strictly gf/cf, egg free. We were so hopeful when I came

across them because we know for sure we have a phenol problem and

believe there are other food issues we haven't been able to figure out

because he has delayed reactions. So far no real positives. He is

aggressing, tantruming and irritable. The past weekend was barely

bearable he was so hyper and irritable. Mon. AM he had a great hour

before school but it was short lived. He has aggressed repeatedly at

school both Mon. and today. Our three week date is this Thur. 10/4. Do

we cont. and hope for more positives?? We really haven't seen much but

a return to aggression and tantrums. We used serenaid and enzymeaid

(Kirkman's) both extensively in the past with no reactions except that

they softened reaction from accidental infractions if we gave them

right away. We are willing to go through anything if it will truly

improve his life.

And, said to be temporary side-effects, hyperactivity and bed-wetting:

Hyperactivity

From: alison1wls@a...

Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:43 am

Subject: Rash on face

Is it normal to have a red blotchy rash on the cheeks and chin when

starting enzymes? Oliver has been on pep for 1 week tomorrow, 1 a day.

He is definitely having more tantrums and is so hyperactive and

stimming alot. He has been on probio gold for 2 weeks 1 a day but did

not see this reaction with them, assuming and am absolutely certain it

is the enzymes.

Thanks

Alison

From: " Stone " <sabrinastone@c...> Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 7:11 am

Subject: Overdose?

My one year old, not autistic, managed to eat Seth's toast that was

loaded with all three enzymes (1 full capsule each) ...(turn your back

for a minute!) He had terrible gas pains all day. Today, one day

later, he has a fever of 102. Can there be some link? I do know he has

had some yeast issues in the past by

seeing diaper rashes with red spots, but they have gone away. By the

way, what does NT stand for?

Second question: Seth got two doses of enzymes last night at dinner

and was very hyper afterwards. Would that indicate we should increase

his dosage to two capsules of each enzyme rather than one? He has been

on Houston enzymes for two months...going on three. Is there still

some die off going on if he is getting hyper when the dosage is

increased? He doesn't give any indication of a yeast issue.

Has anyone else seen these reactions and what did you do?

From: fsalberger@h... Date: Thu May 17, 2001 8:04 am

My son 6.5 has been on peptizide for one week. He had Zyme Prime today

for the first time (I received the bottle today). He had been so nice

and most of all QUIET all day. My husband and my older son kept asking

me why he was so nice and happy today and what I had done

to him. I answered " well he just took the new enzyme today " . The

hyperactivity he showed on only Peptizide seems to have completely

disappear with addition of Zyme Prime. Well I hope he continues to be

nice, quiet and happy. I shall keep you posted about his mood the

next days.

Fatima

From: fsalberger@h...

Date: Fri May 25, 2001 2:50 am

Subject: Anyone's child eating leaves?

My son starts to eat all the garden's leaves as soon as he is outside.

He cannot digest and tolerate them, but he eats them anyway and it is

very difficult to stop him. I thought about giving him a ZP before

garden time. Do you think enzymes can work in this case?

Fatima

From: jennifergfcf@y... Date: Thu May 17, 2001 3:51 pm

HI,

We have been using the Peptizyde for 2 weeks, and giving controlled

dietary infractions. It seems if we use 2 at a time or more than one

dose a day my son gets quite hyper. He has never been a hyper child.

Has anyone else noticed this. I have been thinking about adding the HZ

Zyne Prime but not sure.

If I allow to have a dietary infraction once a day with one pill it

works fabulous. My son has been on the diet for 1 year and 2 months

and I have been militant about it.

Thanks,

From: sea@i...

Date: Mon Sep 24, 2001 4:19 pm

Subject: revisiting hyperactivity-Devin?

We are finding that ever since we have begun giving the Pep and ZP

regularly with each meal, our son has become much more hyper -it's

funny sometimes because he is happy and excited and goes around

singing and chattering about his current interest, but his impulsivity

has also increased, landing him in trouble at school and at home. I

have had to hide the scissors as he cant' seem to resist the idea of

cutting hair -his own, little brother's, and a poor girl at school!

I have been on no-mail for a while and just went through the last

month's posts. I see that others have also posted about hyperactivity

but it has always been attributed to other things, vitamins, other

foods, etc. However, I also noted that the company has removed the

Glutamine from recent batches, and that Devin referred to it as having

an " excitatory " effect in some children. I was wondering if this might

account for my son's behavior.

Feedback would be appreciated.

T

Of the most concern is the adamant desire for parents to be able to

return offending foods to offer the child normal social opportunity

and the freedom of a non-restricted diet. This is admirable but it is

not working. It appears that the GFCF diet can work even better for

some autists who also have a self-selective diet and who get adequate

supplementation and this often includes use of enzymes. It would be

expected that a self-limited diet where many fruits and vegetables

were naturally avoided could or would result in the need for enzyme

supplementation. Parents frustrated by the good reports from those

implementing a GFCF diet need to take a closer look as many of the

parents are providing a much more comprehensive approach which often

includes elimination of food dyes, aspartame, MSG and provides

supplementation of a multiple vitamin, EFA?s, an enzyme and also DMG.

For autists who have the same food allergy or rather vaccine induced

allergy to the pterin aldehyde lutein and have not chosen a

self-selective diet avoiding these foods then the results of the GFCF

diet include rashes, red ear, diarrhea, undigested food in the stool,

constipation, vomiting, itching, aggression and regression. This is a

true allergy and those choosing the new enzyme product who have not

recognized the sources of lutein or whose child does not have already

a self-selective diet with some awareness of toxins which come in with

foods including MSG, food dyes and aspartame are finding the same

adverse reactions to the enzymes as they did with the otherwise

unrestricted GFCF diet, no diet restrictions and can include:

Itchy skin

From: " Moffett " <juliemoffett@y...>

Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:49 am

Subject: Itchy skin

Hi!

Quick question for you all!

My son seems to be more itchy than usual since starting the enzymes.

We are on day 4 of using Peptizyde. He takes one tablet twice a day

with large meals. He has been GFCF for about a month now.

He is complaining lately of his whole body being " itchy. " No visible

bumps or rash. Apparently just a sensation. Rubbing CFGF lotion

doesn't seem to help. Anyone else experienced this?

Cz.

Depth perception

From: " equus1991 " <lrivard@s...> Date: Thu May 16, 2002 2:23 am

Subject: HELP I'M SCARED

I upped dd Pep to about 1/2 cap last week. 1/2 cap per meal, snack. I

just had a call from the school. They reported a couple of incidents.

One, in the lunchroom, where the tiles are large, and

brightly primary colours, dd lost it, claiming " I'm scared, the floor

is moving " she was very terrified and grabbed at anything she could to

hold onto. Also, in her classroom, floor is a dull grey colour,

she had dropped something and looked over the edge of her desk and got

very panicky saying " I'm scared of heights " . Something strange

happening to her depth/perceptions? Anyone help me?? I have left a

message for Devin to call me ASAP.

Liz

Hive under eye

From: Vandell <nannygoat62@y...> Date: Sat May 11, 2002 8:59 am

Subject: Swollen eye

Hi, I started enzymes with my daughter about 2 weeks ago and today she

came home from school with what appears to be a hive under one of her

eyes.. I offhandedly noticed that eye was a bit pink this am.

Is this possibly a reaction to enzymes or should I look elsewhere? I

am thinking it may be a bite of

some kind..it is about a dime-sized hive directly under her right eye?

Any help would be greatly

appreciated.

Vandell

mother of 5 beautiful girls

Meltdown

From: Elaine <kbrock@a...> Date: Sun Jun 23, 2002 1:28 pm

From: Elaine <kbrock@a...>

Date: Sun Jun 23, 2002 1:28 pm

Subject: No Phenol question

For those that observed a reaction to No Phenol (i.e. die-off) was it

immediately after giving the No Phenol or later in the day? I ask

because I gave my ds a small amount this morning and he had the worst

meltdown this evening that he's had in quite some time.

TIA

Elaine

From: " sam_hsmom " <redmiller@m...>

Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 4:13 pm

Subject: Ojibwa tea update and a no fenol question

I am cautiously optimistic about the ojibwa tea. Tom's been on it

since Mon. Mon. night we had the *worst* melt-down (die off) we have

ever seen. This is the first time we have ever seen him violent

(although it was in a very naive, not like anyone was going to get

hurt sort of violent). The next two days he was just fine but asking

for a lot of sweet stuff (yeast dying, I'm guessing).

For the past couple of days, we're seeing some good stuff. A bit more

eye contact and he's able to form his thoughts into sentences better

(if that makes any sense). I think yeast and or bacteria has just

sorta slowly crept back up on us, and now the tea is beating it back down.

Here's my question...

Do you think adding a little no-fenol to the tea would

a) help break down any resistant yeast so the tea can go in and clean

house a little more

break down the tea so it works even better

c) break down the tea so it doesn't work at all

d) none of the above

e) it's a stupid idea, don't do it

The other times we have tried to introduce no-fenol, we got some of

the same melt-downish behaviors as the tea (but not as bad), but I

really think this was die off. He had the same look in his eyes with

the no-fenol mini-meltdowns as he did with the tea meltdown. Gotta be

something similar going on.

Any input appreciated.

Peace and grace,

Sally, mom to

Tom, 7yo dx AS but on the road to recovery

Ben, 5yo NT by the grace of God

Gracie, 1yo NT and unvaccinated

yellow stool

From: " saral " <vze2cfw8@v...> Date: Mon May 21, 2001 11:00 am

Anyone heard of this with the enzymes? Eliezer gets loose

greenish/yellow stool with the

enzymes. The yellow (bile)actually stains his skin and is difficult to

get off. The enzymes also make him very hungry so I am imagining that

his transit time is too fast with them since I've heard that green

stool could be from rapid transit which is why it is usually

associated with diarrhea. Why would he be having this? He is G/FC/F

and is only getting about 1/2 a capsule of HN-Zyme at a time and even

less of peptizyde. On the plus side, he is clearly happier and more

playful although very verbally stimmy. I am also giving him

probiotics and a tiny bit of bicarbonate and they are not the issue

here, I narrowed it down to the enzymes. I want to keep him on them,

what should I do? He doesn't eat enough protein, could that be the

problem?

Sara

Oily orange poops

From: chris bacher <chrisb@h...> Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 4:20 am

Subject: oily orange poops

Hi-

My 5 year old son has been taking the peptizyde and zyne for about 4

days and his poops have become oily and orange and frequent like they

used to be when he was a toddler. My question is this: Is this a yeast

die off reaction or something similiar, has anyone else seen this, and

does it pass?

thanks for your help

chris

Flax oil [NB: Flax contains lutein and/or beta-carotene]

From: " Lynn Kellner " <ricklynn@m...> Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:32 pm

Hi there. I just thought I'd take a bit of time and give a progress report

too.

My son, is 3 1/2 and diagnosed with mild autism with ADHD

(maybe) and SID (less now) and was diagnosed at about 2 1/2. We have

been totally gfcf since late August 2000, after getting the U of Fla

blood test results where we learned his casein was off the charts (and

that was after we had

already begun by removing milk, cheese and icecream) and his gluten

although bad wasn't as bad as the casein. We saw amazing results and

were absolutely sure we had finally found out what was wrong with our

guy! I continued to search more and more for foods to remove, and have

tried being a purist with all the foods, but suspected I was leaking

in small areas (eg condiments, hotdogs, etc.), or there were

additional problems because his stools still weren't solid regularly.

We tried SNT within months after he was diagnosed (and about the time

we started the diet) but he became very hyper on it, so much so that

his therapist thought we had lost all the ground we had gained in the

first few months of intervention programs! So we dropped that out, and

only managed to maintain the baby vitamin Poly Vi Sol to keep

something going into him because he wouldn't do chewables at that

time. We are now supplementing with Rhino Vites chewable multis which

we began about a month ago after finally finding something that was

full of more minerals and free of all

offending additives.

Our next challenge was to find a sympathetic doctor to our boys needs,

and who would support all our interventions. That was hard as land

currently has only 2 or 3 pediatric MDs DAN certified, and none would

accept our insurance. But long and short was that we found a

developmental ped who

was working with our Infants and Toddlers program and who was taking

referrals through one of our HMO plans. So we switched and we are now

seeing her and working with her. She went to med school with Pam

Compart, one of the DAN docs here in MD. Yeah!

One of the first interventions she recommended was flax seed oil to

help with the hyperactivity and his ADHD. So we began that. I also

broke rule number one and introduced DMG to his regimen about the same

time (thinking that they were to focus on different things). Over the

next month and a half we started seeing alarming reports from school

of increased aggression, hitting, pushing, yelling, tantrums,

unwillingness to clean up, tranisiton struggles. You name it. So

different than the little boy who started

school. But we attributed it to a new sister in the same period,

trying to potty train and an increase in his class size all around the

same time. We worked very hard on discipline both at home and at

school to say, No way ! You're not doing that anymore! But it was

constraint on his part, not compliance.

Finally the teacher told us that she was seeing an incredible increase

in his spontaneous speech but it was correlated with this increase in

aggression. So for 10 days we removed the DMG, whereupon we heard that

it got even worse!

Well, with the intervention of God I can only say, I removed the flax

seed oil because it was getting so messy and hard to get down, and I

jsut wasn't seeing any benefits. In that same time frame the

aggression basically disappeared. And, in the middle of all this, we

began the enzymes about a

week ago.

We now have a calm, happy, compliant child whose bowels are regularly

solid (although still a little frequent, that will probably adjust)

and for the last week he has had mild problems at school (anyone know

why he would lick his classmate on the cheek?) and the teacher for the

first time in the last

two days sent home notes that had NO timeouts. You have to understand,

this kid was sometimes getting 4-6 timeouts in a 2 hour day!

Anyway, we are still maintaining strict gfcf right now, but my hope is

that I can bring the gluten back in since that wasn't as much the

issue as the casein, and then occasionally give him his real ice cream

with a pill!!!

This bread thing is killing me!!!!!

Just wanted you all to know.

Lynn in MD

OJ, throwing up [NB: Orange Juice contains lutein and beta-carotene]

From: Janine <jrlouie@o...> Date: Mon Jun 18, 2001 2:28 pm

Vomiting

Subject: throwing up

Has anyone every had a experience with throwing up from the enzymes.

My son has been taking them slow (however, was not knew to enzymes. He

has taken different ones for a year now) for about a week. 1/2 cap

with largest meal. Tonight he was eating french fries and drank his

juice down very fast which contained the two enzymes. Then he drank a

second cup of juice right after as well. The

enzymes were in Apple juice and the second cup was OJ. He then mush

have not felt well. He just threw it up. Any ideas?

Janine/NY

From: DeEtte Person <annarebecca85259@y...>

Date: Sat Sep 22, 2001 8:27 am

Subject: enzymes -- vomiting?

Just wondering if enzymes has caused vomiting in anyone. We started

on 1/2 capsule of ZN-Prime with dinner last Friday and upped to

1/2 capsule also with breakfast on Wednesday. All was going well, but

last night she woke up vomiting everywhere and still (12 hours later)

can't keep anything down. She ate her lunch -- but it just came up

again. I'm trying to figure out if she's just plain sick, reacting to

something she's eaten or if it could have anything to do with the

enzymes since that's really the only thing that's changed. It's not

likely that it's something she's eaten because she's on the ketogenic

diet which is very restrictive and she hasn't eaten anything new in

quite awhile. Appreciate any insights!-D

Food dye and aspartame

From: Pat Gallagher <patgallagher@e...>

Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 9:37 am

Subject: Bad reaction???

From: Pat Gallagher <patgallagher@e...>

Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 9:37 am

Subject: Bad reaction???

Hi Everyone,

I am trying to sort out the cause of a reaction that my son just had

and I'm not sure where to start. The list of possibilities seems to be

solong. He has been on Pep and Zyme for about 2 months now and seemed

to be doing very well. He used to take Creon but we switched when I

heard about these new enzymes. He seems to do fine with gluten but I

have always been more careful with dairy even when he was on Creon and

more recently while taking the Pep and Zyme. However, I have allowed

him to have increasing amounts and he hasn't had a reaction. For

example last week he had an ice cream cone and on another occasion

recently he had 2 slices of pizza with no problem. Tonight he had a

reaction to something but I can't figure out what. He complained of

having terrible pain in his ears (he said it felt

as if they had been sliced. They then became bright red and burning

hot. He became extremely agitated, started screaming at me, ran into

his room, was panicking, paranoid, crying. Couldn't seem to understand

what I was saying to him or alternately would misinterpret what I was

saying in a

paranoid way or do the opposite of what I said (e.g. I would say Relax

and he would tense up and clench his fists and teeth). I left him

alone to calm down for a bit and he came out of his room and asked if

I turned the heat on - he was very hot. His cheeks were bright red and

his body was warm. He still couldn't calm down and was visibly

agitated, confused and disoriented but after awhile he agreed to

taking an Alka Seltzer Gold which seemed to neutralize whatever was

going on.

So, my question is - What happened? He has been doing fine on the

enzymes for so long. Could this be a delayed reaction to casein from

days ago? The 2 things that could have done it today are M & m's or

sugarfree Bubbilicious gum (it contains Aspartame which he has reacted

to in the past - but it seemed such a small amount). Finally to make

matters more complicated we are on our 6th round of chelation and I

wonder if it could be related to chelation. There are just too many

variables to sort out. If anyone has any thoughts I would love to hear

them. Thanks, Pat

Sick

From: " saral " <vze2cfw8@v...>

Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 2:57 pm

Subject:

?

I've already posted about some benefits I saw, not much right now

other than better sleep. But he keeps getting strep so it's hard to tell.

Sara

Undigested food or capsules in stool

From: mglassford77@y...

Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 10:56 am

A few weeks ago, my son had a follow-up visit over at the Pfeiffer

Treatment Center. They recommended that my son have the Comprehensive

Digestive Stool Analysis done through Great Smokies Diagnostic

Laboratory. Timing was such today that we were finally able to do the

test. Well, as I was getting the sample, I noticed something hard. I

thought at first it might be food, but it was very

hard and then I remembered he said he had lost a tooth the other day

and had accidentally swallowed it, so I thought it was the tooth. Then

I noticed it was much bigger than a tooth, I pulled this hard

thing out and it was one of the supplements that I give him and it was

completely undissolved! I just can't tell which one it was. His stool

otherwise looked fine. I don't normally look at his stools

since he's 10 and has been potty trained since toddler age, but I

really don't know what to make of this. Any ideas from anyone? Should

he drink more water or does anyone know what happened? Thank

you in advance!

Undigested food

From: nathan1sg@y...

Date: Sat Sep 15, 2001 2:09 am

Subject: Undigested food in stool

Hi,

I started to give SerenAid to my kids (age 3 and 5, small one has

autism ) for one week. Since they are very sensitive to many stuff, I

am giving them one capsule during dinner time to see any reaction. I

noticed that both kids started to grow physically. Both of them,

especially big one has many kinds of undigested food, carrots,

seaweeds, sagos, even chlorella's green in his stool. Increase of

dosage will solve the problem or I am giving him wrong product?

Reduced analgesia

From: Fred Davies <mrrva@y...>

Date: Sat Jul 6, 2002 8:18 pm

Subject: 23 month old on Enzymes

My non verbal son began taking enzymes 3 weeks ago.

After a UTI he was dx'd as iron deficient and rx'd an

iron supplement. The supp made him act anemic, which

he hadn't to date, so I stopped it. First I began Pep

and Zyme Prime once a day, then a week later I added

fish liver oil, for vitamin A. I do daily epsom salt

baths and vitamin E oil rubs.

He's broken out in the 'milk bumps' across his

shoulders, again manifesting deficiency symptoms where

there had been none (believing that the bumps are a

sign of vitamin A deficiency). He was not

lactose/casein intolerant prior to enzymes. I do not

believe he is now. Is this something to watch? Is

there a solution?

He is most certainly experiencing die off. A painful

rash on his bum is the main sign. He has always been

very sensitive to yeast growth. His only dietary

problem is an egg allergy.

He is also teething (eye teeth, yuck). With the HNI

supp, he's become very sensitive to pain (where he had

a high tolerance before). I think I will wait until

the yeast is under control before I up his enzyme

dose. Can anyone suggest a better course of action?

I'm concerned that the increased pain sensitivity is

going to continue. It was actually why I was waiting

to start him on enzymes (after his teeth came through)

but the UTI changed that.

While his social skills (verified with the ATEC) have

improved immensely with the enzymes, I haven't seen a

return to pre-UTI speech ability. This concerns me.

Any suggestions?

Thanks so much for your help,

[Guest guest]

>>> No convincing evidence the Houstonni products work better for

most.

No convincing evidence that they don't. Most people I know and hear

from do great on them. But if you are going out of your way to be

negative about anything you will not doubt selectively look for just

that, and that is what you will selectively present.

I use No-Fenol and the other Houston enzymes and they have been

positively GREAT! for nearly two years. And I am happy about that.

Positively happy about the Great results!

.

[Guest guest]

> >>> No convincing evidence the Houstonni products work better for

> most.

no convincing evidence that mercury causes autism.

no convincing evidence that dental amalgam is dangerous.

no convincing evidence that anything alternative works.

Sounds almost like quackwatch.

BTW, who cares which brand people use? I don't bother people in the

store if they happen to pick a brand of apple sauce or sanitary

napkins I don't think are good. It is a matter of personal choice and

preference. Who cares? Let's stop being silly and talk about

something relevant.

> No convincing evidence that they don't.

A very reasonable response.

BTW, how many of you look for peer reviewed, double blind crossover

trials before daring to witch from 's soup to Progresso?

> Most people I know and hear

> from do great on them. But if you are going out of your way to be

> negative about anything you will not doubt selectively look for just

> that, and that is what you will selectively present.

Yes! Just like QuackWatch! They get lots of money somehow, so maybe

there is a business opportunity for you here!

>

> I use No-Fenol and the other Houston enzymes and they have been

> positively GREAT! for nearly two years. And I am happy about that.

> Positively happy about the Great results!

I'm glad someone is happy!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> BTW, who cares which brand people use?

It matters what brand you use, because (as says) Houston enzymes break

down foods and probably this is what makes them " bad "

Valentina

[Guest guest]

Who cares? Let's stop being silly and talk about something relevant.

Reply: would love to do just that. You mentioned the Houstonni as an

example and I answered with information to help you also to get more

information and form a more objective, not negative, just objective

opionion because what you say about a product may be important to some

people. Probably not your choices for things like sanitary napkins but

certainly product recommendations for vitamins, supplements and

possibly even enzymes.

> > >>> No convincing evidence the Houstonni products work better for

> > most.

>

> no convincing evidence that mercury causes autism.

>

> no convincing evidence that dental amalgam is dangerous.

>

> no convincing evidence that anything alternative works.

>

> Sounds almost like quackwatch.

>

> BTW, who cares which brand people use? I don't bother people in the

> store if they happen to pick a brand of apple sauce or sanitary

> napkins I don't think are good. It is a matter of personal choice and

> preference. Who cares? Let's stop being silly and talk about

> something relevant.

>

> > No convincing evidence that they don't.

>

> A very reasonable response.

>

> BTW, how many of you look for peer reviewed, double blind crossover

> trials before daring to witch from 's soup to Progresso?

>

> > Most people I know and hear

> > from do great on them. But if you are going out of your way to be

> > negative about anything you will not doubt selectively look for just

> > that, and that is what you will selectively present.

>

> Yes! Just like QuackWatch! They get lots of money somehow, so maybe

> there is a business opportunity for you here!

> >

> > I use No-Fenol and the other Houston enzymes and they have been

> > positively GREAT! for nearly two years. And I am happy about that.

> > Positively happy about the Great results!

>

> I'm glad someone is happy!

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

OK, I never get involoved in these kinds of discussions (I rarely

even post here at all!). But, one of my enzymes and autism posts

from a looooong time ago showed up on 's reprint of enzyme

posts here. Kinda ticked me off.

My old enzyme post was asking about No fenol enzyme and the hard time

Tom had had with it. Well, we got past all that, and now Tom takes

no fenol with everything he eats and it has helped him! Of course,

people just reading 's list of problems wouldn't know that. It

would be like pulling out all the posts from this board that have

questions/problems with chelation and saying all chelation is bad.

Nevermind the kid might have made a major breakthrough with the next

round.

I'd just hate for someone to read all this Houston enzyme nonsense

and think they should steer clear of Houston products. IMHO, Devin

Houston is the groundbreaker in enzyme therapy for autism. If he

formulates a product, you better believe it is on Tom's short list of

things we have to try!

Just my 2 cents.

Peace and grace,

Sally, mom to

Tom, 8yo dx AS but on the road to recovery

Ben, 5yo NT by the grace of God

Gracie, 2yo NT and unvaccinated

> Who cares? Let's stop being silly and talk about something

relevant.

> Reply: would love to do just that. You mentioned the Houstonni as an

> example and I answered with information to help you also to get more

> information and form a more objective, not negative, just objective

> opionion because what you say about a product may be important to

some

> people.

[Guest guest]

Andy,

What if you think your kid has a stealth virus and using the Houston enzymes or

kirkmans for that matter puts enzymes into them that have a fungal base?Could

this be a problem?What's your opinion?

Thanks, R

[Guest guest]

> Andy,

> What if you think your kid has a stealth virus and using the Houston

enzymes or kirkmans for that matter puts enzymes into them that have a

fungal base?Could this be a problem?What's your opinion?

My opinion is that this is not a problem. I don't understand why it

would be.

Andy . . . .. .