Re: vaccinate or no?

[Guest guest]

To force parents into vaccinating, doctors grossly exaggerate and

dramatize, suggesting " dying from the disease " as almost inevitable

consequence and an only alternative to not vaccinating, and trying to

manipulate you into a guilt trip.

People have much, much higher chances for dying from medical error,

malpractice or medication overdose than from childhood infection.

Since those illnesses are becoming so rare, it is easy to convince

emotionally vulnerable people that those are scarier than they really

were.

Also, vaccines do not provide 100% protection either.

(I was vaccinated against measles, but contracted it all right; and

vice versa, never was vaccinated against rubella, mumps or scarlet

fever yet never had them.)

Just keep your baby healthy, strengthen their immune system, teach

them good hygiene and take reasonable precautions - and she will be

all right.

> We were gonna vaccinate our 12 week old at 4 mo old, following Dr.

> Cave's recommended schedule. The closer we get to 4 months old the

> more and more fear we have. Hubby said to wait until she's 3yrs

old.

> In the meanwhile I'm afraid of pertussis so we've quit taking her

out

> much at all and one of us stays home from church with her. Any

advice?

>

> Debi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/16/2002 7:10:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,

vaccineinfo@... writes:

<< There is no magic age when it is safe. I get emails and phone calls from

parents of older children, teens and from adults. There is NO safe vaccine

and it is not safe at any age.

>>

Sheri is correct on this one!! My child may have had some problems from the

vaccines in infancy but was a happy, athletic, artistic child who did fine in

school, did gymnastics, swam, danced, sang in choir, and many other

activities until her later vaccines in 5th & 6th grade which resulted in her

then becoming ADHD, CAPD, etc... I now agree all vaccines are dangerous at

ANY age-- even adulthood. After receiving 3 yearly flu shots in a row

followed by a tetnus shot I became dx'd Adult ADD with Anxieties and with

Fibromyalgia. I never will get another!!!

Michele

[Guest guest]

At 03:54 AM 12/16/2002 -0000, you wrote:

>We were gonna vaccinate our 12 week old at 4 mo old, following Dr.

>Cave's recommended schedule. The closer we get to 4 months old the

>more and more fear we have. Hubby said to wait until she's 3yrs old.

>In the meanwhile I'm afraid of pertussis so we've quit taking her out

>much at all and one of us stays home from church with her. Any advice?

>

>Debi

PLEASE - Dr. Cave doesn't come out strongly enough against vaccines - many

people like to show a 'moderate' face so they don't lose credibility. BUT

that is NOT a good way to go - vaccines are extremely dangerous as you know

and NOT just because of hte mercury. I get so angry with these 'moderates'

on vaccines (often moderate in public, but not in private - I know many of

them)

I think infants should stay at home anyway, more like people used to do -

allow them to develop their immune systesm. But if you are breastfeeding,

certainly she is better protected. But pertussis is out ther and MOSTLY in

vaccinated children and adults.

Please please research all on vaccines - it is NOT just about mercury.

There have been damage, autism and death from each and every one of the

vaccines...........

People get so fearful of pertussis. Yes, it is not pleasant and in a tiny

infant more problematic because of small airways, but they too survive.

Homeopathic treatment ahs been very successful for 200 years.

Start with my webpages

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

At 08:14 PM 12/15/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>We have chosen not to vaccinate our 3rd daughter LeeLee (now 22 months). If

>she gets a cut we can get her s tetanus shot.

Please read carefully on the tetanus vaccine. It is not innocuous either.

And if not vaccinated before they will NOT give you tetanus vax - they will

give tetanus immune globulin - the pooled blood of innumerable people who

got the vaccine - pooled blood! And if she did get tetanus vax it is in

form of Td (with diphtheria & it has mercury in it! - or TT - but that is

nto supposed to be used on kids - I don't know why - and that has mercury

in it).

Please read about tetanus and let go of the fear of that one

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/tetanus.htm

If there is a measles

>outbreak we will have time to vaccinate then too.

No.............why do you think you need to avoid measles for your 22 month

old. I get so ANGRY at the fear they have instilled niin all of you. I'm

52 years old, an RN, a daughter of an RN - NO one feared measles at the

time - occasionally there were complications - I NEVER knew anyone who had

them. And Vitamin A & C given at the time help immensely and homeopathic

treatment too which has worked for 200 years. Please please try to get

mroe truthful information than the propaganda they use to sell vaccine.

Hep B? Forget it. We

>have no risk factors for that. It's a very personal choice, but for me it

>was easy because I know what happened to my first child. When the doctor

>looked me in the eye and said " If you don't vaccinate her she could DIE from

>the measles " , my oldest child was writhing around on the floor licking it

>and biting herself bloody. I looked right back at her and said " Can you

>honestly tell me that wouldn't be better than this? " That was the end of

>that day's lecture.

Good comments. I'm glad you have decided not to vaccinate, but go a little

further.........in my opinion they are NEVER needed and I have researched

this for 20 years!

Sheri (former peds RN)

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

At 04:25 AM 12/16/2002 -0000, you wrote:

>--- I know that hind sight is 20/20, and that if I had the chance to

>do it all over, I never would have had any of my kids vaccinated AT

>ALL! Instead, I would have done what I am now doing to try to help

>them and that is by detoxing and balancing their immune systems with

>natural supplements,etc. My kids almost NEVER even get so much as an

>advil or motrin, even then, only as a last resort. I can also say

>that since I have had them on natural supplements, and herbs...they

>are very RARELY ever sick anymore.

> It only makes sense that if you get your immune system back to where

>God intended it to be, then your body can fight for itself!

>

> As for a TETANUS shot....that is the one that ultimately took what

>was left of my son's speech away.. (after becoming autistic at 18

>months). He had appx. 7 words at age 3...

> I would much rather use non-invasive homeopathic remedies. I believe

>that my son would be saying at least a few words if not for that

>tetanus shot at age 3 1/2. He has NO speech at almost 12 years.

> Lindy

EXCELLENT Lindy & you are so right.

And I get MANY emails and phone calls by people damaged by tetanus shot!

You are exactly right.

I am so sorry.

See my tetanus page

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/tetanus.htm

Remember, you all have been programmed to purchase a product.

Again, my heart goes out to you.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

At 06:03 AM 12/16/2002 -0000, you wrote:

>Debi-- I still struggle with it, too. Isn't it awful? Such a

>terrible decision to have to make-- you feel like if you don't

>vaccinate, then you're a terrible person for putting your child at

>risk for some terrible disease. If you do vaccinate, you feel like

>you're a terrible person for putting your child at risk for some

>terrible side effect/adverse reaction! LOL!

Yes, it is a struggle because of the programming we all have been through.

But the more you educate yourself, the more comfortable you will be. I

moderate 2 vaccine dangers email lists and have over 1000 people on them

(had over 2000 but thinned them out due to spies). Everyone who sticks

with it and reads and reads and finds support with others, aare comfortable

with their choice to not vaccinate, but it takes reading and reading and

support to go against the grain. They are trying to sell a product. It is

very simple, but so hard to see. I trust ANY disease more than I ever

trust the manipulations of ignorant scientists who have NO CLUE how the

immune system works and what they are doing to interfere. It is horribly

frightenig to me with all that I know.

>

>Elora, our NT daughter, suffered major gut dysbiosis... in hindsight,

>it started with her hep b and immune globulin at birth, but it

>reached a crescendo with her 7 month vaxes. She just doesn't " go "

>without the help of a babylax and her stools have turned to pellets.

>But even still, I find myself thinking that maybe this summer I

>should get her a single dose mumps or something like that! I

>definitely will not get her any " boosters " of anything, but there's

>still that nagging voice in my head that says " vaccinate...

>vaccinate " . I wish it would shut up!

>

>She's two now, and we're not due to go back for a checkup until

>three... so if I can just hold off longer, at least until I get her

>gut dysbiosis worked out, then " maybe " . Maybe around 3 or 4 or 5

>or...

There is no magic age when it is safe. I get emails and phone calls from

parents of older children, teens and from adults. There is NO safe vaccine

and it is not safe at any age.

Please educate yourselves on this like you are doing on the mercury issue.

Those of you who have children with autism are ALREADY vulnerable --------

certain children and families are MORE susceptible as you know. You

especially ahve to be EXTREMLY careful.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

OK you guys-- your posts have made the " vaccinate vaccinate " voices

in my head go away for now! Thank you! I think we will just rely on

the so-called " herd immunity " and I won't be vaxing her this summer

at all! You're right Sherri-- it is a form of " programming " of the

brain--they do market and sell a product and it can be difficult to

resist at times, but these types of stories are what we need to know

about. Informed decisions are the best ones.

W

>> school, did gymnastics, swam, danced, sang in choir, and many

other

> activities until her later vaccines in 5th & 6th grade which

resulted in her

> then becoming ADHD, CAPD, etc... I now agree all vaccines are

dangerous at

> ANY age-- even adulthood. After receiving 3 yearly flu shots in a

row

> followed by a tetnus shot I became dx'd Adult ADD with Anxieties

and with

> Fibromyalgia. I never will get another!!!

> Michele

[Guest guest]

>>>>>OK you guys-- your posts have made the & quot;vaccinate vaccinate & quot;

voices <<<<<<

, remember the odds of contracting any of these diseases against the

potential complications from the vaccine, and one should rest fairly well. My

daughter has been in daycare since she was 3, and in that two years, she's

stayed home sick 3 times. Once for the flu, and once for Chicken Pox... and

yes, she survived that just fine. I was glad she had gotten it, and gotten it

over with. Now, if I had only not been programmed by the docs when my son's

were little.

Oh, and for what it's worth. I have horrible eczema, always have. I got the

nasty small pox vaccine, and my mother went through hell with me and my skin.

I'm lucky to have a face that survived a horrible case of eczema. However, I

suffered with chronic eczema for years to come. I often had no skin on my hand

or feet to speak of....

a

a, mom to Alec 8.4 (Dyslexia), 6.7 (Asperger's), and 4.10

[Guest guest]

I looked it up in a 1944 edition of Cecil Textbook of Medicine.

They did note it was a serious disease that caused death in some

instances, but much fewer than had been the case 50 or 100 years ago.

They also noted that the cause of death in most cases was secondary

bacterial infection of the open " pox " wounds, and that this was likely

to become a thing of the past with the advent of antibiotics.

It is the nature of bureaucracies that knowledge is lost as the

bureaucracy matures. This has occurred for all recorded history -

there is no reason to expect the medical bureaucracy to behave

differently than any other.

Andy . . .. . . . . .. . . . . ..

> I am on so many groups that I forget which one had a note that I

thought may

> be of interest to all on this subject. A fellow a respect a lot

looked up

> smallpox in some old 1930's medical school reference/textbooks and

it was

> described as a very annoying but virtually risk free disease that

created

> almost no long term problems. Then he lookup it (smallpox, that is)

up in

> modern medical textbooks where it is described as extremely

dangerous, often

> fatal disease with serious long-term consequences. Makes one wonder

it they

> are " stacking " the information deck to get everyone to comply. What

about

> the other diseases? My daughter had whooping cough(pertussis) and

besides a

> horrible sounding cough for about 3 months (the Chinese call it the

" 100 day

> cough " ), she was none the worse for it and probably stronger. About

6 kids

> in her Waldorf school had it and not one doctor diagnosed it, until

one

> parent insisted. No doctor was willing to " officially " diagnose and

> therefore report it (required by law) because of the paperwork.

Makes one

> wonder about the value of their statistics, etc., doesn't it.

> Many thanks and much love,

> Ken Gullan

> Institute for Research Integration (IRI)

> San Diego, CA

> IRI is a 501C(3) non-profit corporation established to help children

with

> developmental difficulties.

> To contact me off-list use kengullan@c... or call 619-222-1104

>

> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:15:31 GMT

> From: pjand3kids <pjand3kids@j...>

> Subject: Re:Re: vaccinate or no?

>

> , remember the odds of contracting any of these diseases against

the

> potential complications from the vaccine, and one should rest fairly

well.

> My daughter has been in daycare since she was 3, and in that two

years,

> she's stayed home sick 3 times. Once for the flu, and once for

Chicken

> Pox... and yes, she survived that just fine. I was glad she had

gotten it,

> and gotten it over with. Now, if I had only not been programmed by

the docs

> when my son's were little.

>

> Oh, and for what it's worth. I have horrible eczema, always have.

I got

> the nasty small pox vaccine, and my mother went through hell with me

and my

> skin. I'm lucky to have a face that survived a horrible case of

eczema.

> However, I suffered with chronic eczema for years to come. I often

had no

> skin on my hand or feet to speak of....

>

> a

>

>

>

>

> a, mom to Alec 8.4 (Dyslexia), 6.

[Guest guest]

>>When they say they've eradicated something it seems to carry more

>>weight and justify the expense if it gets presented as something

>>actually dangerous. Slooked up smallpox in some old

>>1930's medical school reference/textbooks and it was described as

>>a very annoying but virtually risk free disease that created

>>almost no long term problems. Then look it up(smallpox, that

>>is) up in modern medical textbooks where it is described as

>>extremely dangerous, often-fatal disease with serious long-term

>>consequences.

This is an interesting question. Is it possible that the two

sources were talking about different things?

That is, if the 1930s textbook might possibly have been talking

about the virus they use for smallpox vaccination? In that case, it

would not be smallpox itself.

Smallpox is a horrifying disease; no one would want to have to live

through it (if they did live), if there were any choice about it.

Here is a photo:

Also, here is some information about smallpox vaccination, which

does not use actual smallpox -- it uses something they

call " vaccinia. " (There is more, at each of the URLs below.)

For what it's worth, even though the vaccination side effects (when

they are bad) are nothing like real smallpox, the article below

doesn't do justice to how bad the side effects can be, when they ARE

bad. It can cause big ugly raised and inflamed areas all around the

injection site. But IN THE OLD DAYS before all of these required

vaccines, side effects like that were not common. Today would be

anybody's guess. Let's do Tommy first . . . whether he

wants to, or not.

http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/bioterrorism/facts/SMALLPOX.JPG

(Photo at the link above)

http://www.geocities.com/smallpox_pictures/

" The vaccine against smallpox is made from vaccinia virus. Its

origin is uncertain, but it was probably derived from cowpox virus,

variola virus, or a hybrid of the two. Experience has proven the

effectiveness of live vaccinia-virus vaccine. "

http://virology.science.org/bioterrorism.asp

" In 1796, the world's first vaccination was performed when an

English country doctor named Jenner inoculated Phipps,

an eight year old boy, with cow pox virus.

Jenner had observed that, although small pox was a widespread

disease, milkmaids never seemed to get the disease. This was because

they had been infected by cow pox from the cows they worked with,

and this virus was similar enough to small pox to protect against

it.

" A month and a half after inoculating Phipps, Jenner tested the

effectiveness of his vaccine by injecting the boy with live smallpox

virus. Phipps was completely protected and did not show any

symptoms.

" In 1798, Jenner published an article called " An Inquiry into the

Causes and Effects of the Variolae Vaccinae, " reporting the efficacy

of his new treatment.

" Although Jenner's accomplishment was a landmark event in the

history of medicine, the vaccine that was eventually used to

eradicate small pox was made from vaccinia, not cow pox. The

vaccinia virus, used as a live vaccine against small pox, is a

relatively avirulent virus that is similar to cow pox, but its

origins are not clearly understood.

" Inoculation with vaccinia causes a single pock at the site of

injection, which dries up and scabs after about ten days, leaving a

vaccination scar. By this time, the vaccinated individual has become

immune to both vaccinia and small pox. "