Re: Andy, Dr McCandless & others....Please Advise!!!

[Guest guest]

Chelation is not risk free, but the risk is enormous on improper

(DAN!, etc) protocols and not so bad on proper ones. Also note that

if you stop and re-evaluate right away if the protocol isn't agreeing

with her the risk is dramatically less than if some physician yammers

about a " healing crisis " and her " needing to get worse before she gets

better " because said physician doesn't know the difference between

homeopathy and allopathy. Allopathic treatments have no healing

crisis. Supplements and chelation are allopathic.

A lot more information is necessary in order to say much. One

question is whether you did the " mainstream " genetic work up etc.

Another is if anyone did an organic acid or plasma amino acid test at

some point. Another is whether anyone ever tried giving her

cholinergic agents (Rx or OTC) to see if that would help her poop on

her own.

You can chelate her now. Hopefully that is what she needs, but if it

isn't it won't do anything.

Do NOT use " homeopathic detox " for heavy metals! Any other kind of

homeopathy is fine.

Andy .. . . . . . . .. . . . . .

> This morning I posted about my 20 month old son with autism. I have

> another child, a 5.5 year old girl with very severe autism.

>

> She was diagnosed at 24 months of age. We tried intensive ABA for 3

> years, speech, OT, PT, music, etc, etc for about 2 years, GFCF diet

> for 2 years, 4 secretin infusions, homeopathy for over 8 months,

> several supplements, a local DANs protocol twice in the past, FGF2

> from March 2002, Pfeiffer from May 2002, Dr Amy's Protocol from Oct

> 2002.

>

> My daugther's current level of functioning: Almost no receptive

> skills (Once in a while understands 'Bye' and/or 'Eat', non-verbal

> (once in a while says a very appropriate word or sentence, but won't

> repeat them), laughs when we tickle her, no reaction to any other

> social game including Peekaboo. She used to gesture towards TV, tape

> player, etc, but lately only sits and cries if she wants something,

> poor apetite, bowels don't move (with supplements we are able to

> keep the stool soft, but still won't pass the stool out without an

> enemas, even when the stool is watery), she can show her cup when

> she wants water, doesn't even smile in response to reinforcement or

> verbal praise.

>

> She had a lot of birth trauma, some issues in the first year, nasty

> regression following a period of vaccines (MMR, HiB, Flu),

> pneumonia, ear infections and several antibiotics. She even

> regresses on anaesthetics, homeopathic detoxes, several

> supplements, etc. Most of the time I don't even understand why she

> is regressing. She showed some initial improvement on FGF2 and

> regressed again when we started Pfeiffer and NAET/Bioset this summer

> (also plays on neighbors lawns all the time which are covered with

> pesticides). She regressed further by the time she got back from

> her trip to Mexico (not sure if the Ketamine Anaesthetic hurt her,

> may have caught some gut bugs too because she threw up a few times

> in Mexico). We are also looking into Mitochondrial dysfuction.

>

> She is mercury toxic according to Andy's counting rules, but my

> local DANs and Dr Amy Holmes suggested that I wait on CHELATION

> until we can get her to have regular BMs (I tried everything

> including energy medicine). She is already 5.5 and I finally

> started giving her enemas everyday. Can we start chelating her now

> that she is getting daily enemas? Do kids who are so sensitive

> regress further on chelation? I am also worried that we may not be

> making progress because she is too toxic and too damaged?

>

> Sorry for such a long mail.....I would appreciate any kind of input

> in this matter.....I am totally confused about what I am

> doing....the more supplements I add the more I am worried that I am

> loading her with vits that she cannot absorb or use....if I don't do

> anythign she still regresses. Help!!!

>

> Thanks in adva

[Guest guest]

I to not know but to wonder if she to be retts instead. It to sound like

much more than autism to be in place for this child but am not a doctor but

reflecting from what you to shared. I to know with retts their to be much

regressions and it to be much more of a progressive disease. Has she to been

brain injured as well through birth traumas on top of her autism to where

maybe she to have much mental retardations as well and thus not seeing

improvements in her intellect and cognitions. I to be to just be wondering

as I tonot be to hear any to be through so much interventions and not make

progress somewhere in the developments. I to might be much wrong to be to

shared this thinking but was just to be curious about the dx of autism to be

only one component of the Childs issues.

Sondra

[Guest guest]

Hi-I don't know if this was already mentioned but I found digestive enzymes

(Houston for us) to really improve this. Have you visited

? This and yeast maintenance has Really helped

my daughter (9 yo) enormously. C.

" andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...> " <AndyCutler@...> wrote:Chelation is

not risk free, but the risk is enormous on improper

(DAN!, etc) protocols and not so bad on proper ones. Also note that

if you stop and re-evaluate right away if the protocol isn't agreeing

with her the risk is dramatically less than if some physician yammers

about a " healing crisis " and her " needing to get worse before she gets

better " because said physician doesn't know the difference between

homeopathy and allopathy. Allopathic treatments have no healing

crisis. Supplements and chelation are allopathic.

A lot more information is necessary in order to say much. One

question is whether you did the " mainstream " genetic work up etc.

Another is if anyone did an organic acid or plasma amino acid test at

some point. Another is whether anyone ever tried giving her

cholinergic agents (Rx or OTC) to see if that would help her poop on

her own.

You can chelate her now. Hopefully that is what she needs, but if it

isn't it won't do anything.

Do NOT use " homeopathic detox " for heavy metals! Any other kind of

homeopathy is fine.

Andy .. . . . . . . .. . . . . .

> This morning I posted about my 20 month old son with autism. I have

> another child, a 5.5 year old girl with very severe autism.

>

> She was diagnosed at 24 months of age. We tried intensive ABA for 3

> years, speech, OT, PT, music, etc, etc for about 2 years, GFCF diet

> for 2 years, 4 secretin infusions, homeopathy for over 8 months,

> several supplements, a local DANs protocol twice in the past, FGF2

> from March 2002, Pfeiffer from May 2002, Dr Amy's Protocol from Oct

> 2002.

>

> My daugther's current level of functioning: Almost no receptive

> skills (Once in a while understands 'Bye' and/or 'Eat', non-verbal

> (once in a while says a very appropriate word or sentence, but won't

> repeat them), laughs when we tickle her, no reaction to any other

> social game including Peekaboo. She used to gesture towards TV, tape

> player, etc, but lately only sits and cries if she wants something,

> poor apetite, bowels don't move (with supplements we are able to

> keep the stool soft, but still won't pass the stool out without an

> enemas, even when the stool is watery), she can show her cup when

> she wants water, doesn't even smile in response to reinforcement or

> verbal praise.

>

> She had a lot of birth trauma, some issues in the first year, nasty

> regression following a period of vaccines (MMR, HiB, Flu),

> pneumonia, ear infections and several antibiotics. She even

> regresses on anaesthetics, homeopathic detoxes, several

> supplements, etc. Most of the time I don't even understand why she

> is regressing. She showed some initial improvement on FGF2 and

> regressed again when we started Pfeiffer and NAET/Bioset this summer

> (also plays on neighbors lawns all the time which are covered with

> pesticides). She regressed further by the time she got back from

> her trip to Mexico (not sure if the Ketamine Anaesthetic hurt her,

> may have caught some gut bugs too because she threw up a few times

> in Mexico). We are also looking into Mitochondrial dysfuction.

>

> She is mercury toxic according to Andy's counting rules, but my

> local DANs and Dr Amy Holmes suggested that I wait on CHELATION

> until we can get her to have regular BMs (I tried everything

> including energy medicine). She is already 5.5 and I finally

> started giving her enemas everyday. Can we start chelating her now

> that she is getting daily enemas? Do kids who are so sensitive

> regress further on chelation? I am also worried that we may not be

> making progress because she is too toxic and too damaged?

>

> Sorry for such a long mail.....I would appreciate any kind of input

> in this matter.....I am totally confused about what I am

> doing....the more supplements I add the more I am worried that I am

> loading her with vits that she cannot absorb or use....if I don't do

> anythign she still regresses. Help!!!

>

> Thanks in adva

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy,

We did the mainstream genetic workup thru our developmental

pediatrician at 24 months of age and it came back normal. We also

did amino and organic acid tests at the same time and they came back

normal too. Of course, we didn't do these tests with labs like Great

Plains, Great Smokies, etc but more with labs our developmental

pediatrician trusted.

Later we did urine organic acid tests a few times with Great Plains,

Great Smokies and with MetaMetrix.

We were never given any cholinergic agents for my daughter's BMs.

The regular docs(Peds and gastros) gave Miralax, Senokot, etc. The

DANs recommended natural supplements.

We never chelated heavy metals, not even with homeopathy. The

homeopathic detox I mentioned is for vaccines, toxins, etc.

Please let me know if you need any specific details of my daughter

organic acid tests. Do you recommended chelation even if the OAT

results are bad?

Thanks,

-Indu.

> Chelation is not risk free, but the risk is enormous on improper

> (DAN!, etc) protocols and not so bad on proper ones. Also note

that

> if you stop and re-evaluate right away if the protocol isn't

agreeing

> with her the risk is dramatically less than if some physician

yammers

> about a " healing crisis " and her " needing to get worse before she

gets

> better " because said physician doesn't know the difference between

> homeopathy and allopathy. Allopathic treatments have no healing

> crisis. Supplements and chelation are allopathic.

>

> A lot more information is necessary in order to say much. One

> question is whether you did the " mainstream " genetic work up etc.

> Another is if anyone did an organic acid or plasma amino acid test

at

> some point. Another is whether anyone ever tried giving her

> cholinergic agents (Rx or OTC) to see if that would help her poop

on

> her own.

>

> You can chelate her now. Hopefully that is what she needs, but if

it

> isn't it won't do anything.

>

> Do NOT use " homeopathic detox " for heavy metals! Any other kind of

> homeopathy is fine.

>

> Andy .. . . . . . . .. . . . . .

>

> > This morning I posted about my 20 month old son with autism. I

have

> > another child, a 5.5 year old girl with very severe autism.

> >

> > She was diagnosed at 24 months of age. We tried intensive ABA

for 3

> > years, speech, OT, PT, music, etc, etc for about 2 years, GFCF

diet

> > for 2 years, 4 secretin infusions, homeopathy for over 8 months,

> > several supplements, a local DANs protocol twice in the past,

FGF2

> > from March 2002, Pfeiffer from May 2002, Dr Amy's Protocol from

Oct

> > 2002.

> >

> > My daugther's current level of functioning: Almost no receptive

> > skills (Once in a while understands 'Bye' and/or 'Eat', non-

verbal

> > (once in a while says a very appropriate word or sentence, but

won't

> > repeat them), laughs when we tickle her, no reaction to any

other

> > social game including Peekaboo. She used to gesture towards TV,

tape

> > player, etc, but lately only sits and cries if she wants

something,

> > poor apetite, bowels don't move (with supplements we are able to

> > keep the stool soft, but still won't pass the stool out without

an

> > enemas, even when the stool is watery), she can show her cup when

> > she wants water, doesn't even smile in response to reinforcement

or

> > verbal praise.

> >

> > She had a lot of birth trauma, some issues in the first year,

nasty

> > regression following a period of vaccines (MMR, HiB, Flu),

> > pneumonia, ear infections and several antibiotics. She even

> > regresses on anaesthetics, homeopathic detoxes, several

> > supplements, etc. Most of the time I don't even understand why

she

> > is regressing. She showed some initial improvement on FGF2 and

> > regressed again when we started Pfeiffer and NAET/Bioset this

summer

> > (also plays on neighbors lawns all the time which are covered

with

> > pesticides). She regressed further by the time she got back from

> > her trip to Mexico (not sure if the Ketamine Anaesthetic hurt

her,

> > may have caught some gut bugs too because she threw up a few

times

> > in Mexico). We are also looking into Mitochondrial dysfuction.

> >

> > She is mercury toxic according to Andy's counting rules, but my

> > local DANs and Dr Amy Holmes suggested that I wait on CHELATION

> > until we can get her to have regular BMs (I tried everything

> > including energy medicine). She is already 5.5 and I finally

> > started giving her enemas everyday. Can we start chelating her

now

> > that she is getting daily enemas? Do kids who are so sensitive

> > regress further on chelation? I am also worried that we may not

be

> > making progress because she is too toxic and too damaged?

> >

> > Sorry for such a long mail.....I would appreciate any kind of

input

> > in this matter.....I am totally confused about what I am

> > doing....the more supplements I add the more I am worried that I

am

> > loading her with vits that she cannot absorb or use....if I don't

do

> > anythign she still regresses. Help!!!

> >

> > Thanks in adva

[Guest guest]

Sondra, I will look more into Retts. We did genetic workup and

everything came back normal. From my understanding Retts is a genetic

disorder, Right?

Theresa, We tried Similase enzymes (recommended) by my DAN and we

currently use 'Absorbaid II' enzymes that come in our Pfeiffer

compounding. I have the Houstonni enzymes, but still didn't give

them a try. So, far I didn't see anything with enzymes.

Thank you,

-Indu.

>

>

> Hi-I don't know if this was already mentioned but I found digestive

enzymes (Houston for us) to really improve this. Have you visited

? This and yeast maintenance has

Really helped my daughter (9 yo) enormously. C.

>

> " andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@a...> " <AndyCutler@a...>

wrote:Chelation is not risk free, but the risk is enormous on

improper

> (DAN!, etc) protocols and not so bad on proper ones. Also note

that

> if you stop and re-evaluate right away if the protocol isn't

agreeing

> with her the risk is dramatically less than if some physician

yammers

> about a " healing crisis " and her " needing to get worse before she

gets

> better " because said physician doesn't know the difference between

> homeopathy and allopathy. Allopathic treatments have no healing

> crisis. Supplements and chelation are allopathic.

>

> A lot more information is necessary in order to say much. One

> question is whether you did the " mainstream " genetic work up etc.

> Another is if anyone did an organic acid or plasma amino acid test

at

> some point. Another is whether anyone ever tried giving her

> cholinergic agents (Rx or OTC) to see if that would help her poop

on

> her own.

>

> You can chelate her now. Hopefully that is what she needs, but if

it

> isn't it won't do anything.

>

> Do NOT use " homeopathic detox " for heavy metals! Any other kind of

> homeopathy is fine.

>

> Andy .. . . . . . . .. . . . . .

>

> > This morning I posted about my 20 month old son with autism. I

have

> > another child, a 5.5 year old girl with very severe autism.

> >

> > She was diagnosed at 24 months of age. We tried intensive ABA

for 3

> > years, speech, OT, PT, music, etc, etc for about 2 years, GFCF

diet

> > for 2 years, 4 secretin infusions, homeopathy for over 8 months,

> > several supplements, a local DANs protocol twice in the past,

FGF2

> > from March 2002, Pfeiffer from May 2002, Dr Amy's Protocol from

Oct

> > 2002.

> >

> > My daugther's current level of functioning: Almost no receptive

> > skills (Once in a while understands 'Bye' and/or 'Eat', non-

verbal

> > (once in a while says a very appropriate word or sentence, but

won't

> > repeat them), laughs when we tickle her, no reaction to any

other

> > social game including Peekaboo. She used to gesture towards TV,

tape

> > player, etc, but lately only sits and cries if she wants

something,

> > poor apetite, bowels don't move (with supplements we are able to

> > keep the stool soft, but still won't pass the stool out without

an

> > enemas, even when the stool is watery), she can show her cup when

> > she wants water, doesn't even smile in response to reinforcement

or

> > verbal praise.

> >

> > She had a lot of birth trauma, some issues in the first year,

nasty

> > regression following a period of vaccines (MMR, HiB, Flu),

> > pneumonia, ear infections and several antibiotics. She even

> > regresses on anaesthetics, homeopathic detoxes, several

> > supplements, etc. Most of the time I don't even understand why

she

> > is regressing. She showed some initial improvement on FGF2 and

> > regressed again when we started Pfeiffer and NAET/Bioset this

summer

> > (also plays on neighbors lawns all the time which are covered

with

> > pesticides). She regressed further by the time she got back from

> > her trip to Mexico (not sure if the Ketamine Anaesthetic hurt

her,

> > may have caught some gut bugs too because she threw up a few

times

> > in Mexico). We are also looking into Mitochondrial dysfuction.

> >

> > She is mercury toxic according to Andy's counting rules, but my

> > local DANs and Dr Amy Holmes suggested that I wait on CHELATION

> > until we can get her to have regular BMs (I tried everything

> > including energy medicine). She is already 5.5 and I finally

> > started giving her enemas everyday. Can we start chelating her

now

> > that she is getting daily enemas? Do kids who are so sensitive

> > regress further on chelation? I am also worried that we may not

be

> > making progress because she is too toxic and too damaged?

> >

> > Sorry for such a long mail.....I would appreciate any kind of

input

> > in this matter.....I am totally confused about what I am

> > doing....the more supplements I add the more I am worried that I

am

> > loading her with vits that she cannot absorb or use....if I don't

do

> > anythign she still regresses. Help!!!

> >

> > Thanks in adva

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi:

>

> This morning I posted about my 20 month old son with autism. I have

> another child, a 5.5 year old girl with very severe autism.

My son, at age 3-1/2, was considered very severe, very low

functioning, no language expressive or receptive. The only " good "

thing was that he really did not have severe behaviors.

> My daugther's current level of functioning: Almost no receptive

> skills (Once in a while understands 'Bye' and/or 'Eat', non-verbal

> (once in a while says a very appropriate word or sentence, but won't

> repeat them), laughs when we tickle her, no reaction to any other

> social game including Peekaboo. She used to gesture towards TV, tape

> player, etc, but lately only sits and cries if she wants something,

After diet for about 2-1/2 years and enzymes for about 6 months, at

age 5-1/2 my son was just slightly ahead of this description.

> She had a lot of birth trauma, some issues in the first year, nasty

> regression following a period of vaccines (MMR, HiB, Flu),

My son did not regress, but he did have a few ear infections that

eventually required tubes.

> pneumonia, ear infections and several antibiotics. She even

> regresses on anaesthetics, homeopathic detoxes, several

> supplements, etc.

My son tolerates basically no supplements.

> She is mercury toxic according to Andy's counting rules, but my

> local DANs and Dr Amy Holmes suggested that I wait on CHELATION

> until we can get her to have regular BMs (I tried everything

> including energy medicine).

My son is now vastly improved after 50 rounds of ALA chelation. I

mentioned the similarities between my son and your child to show you

that you should definitely try it!

>> She is already 5.5 and I finally

> started giving her enemas everyday. Can we start chelating her now

> that she is getting daily enemas?

For constipation issues for a gfcf child, consider reducing or

removing rice, it is very constipating. Also consider enzymes, the

HNI enzymes allowed me to feed my son foods that he would actually

tolerate

http://www.houstonni.com/

>> Do kids who are so sensitive

> regress further on chelation? I am also worried that we may not be

> making progress because she is too toxic and too damaged?

My son was apparently very toxic, because after 50 rounds we still

have quite a way to go. But I would not consider him TOO toxic or TOO

damaged, because even if he is never " normal " , he is vastly improved

from where he was.

You can read his story here if you want, I am trying to write my round

50 update this week.

http://www.danasview.net/myson.htm

Dana

[Guest guest]

> > She is mercury toxic according to Andy's counting rules, but my

> > local DANs and Dr Amy Holmes suggested that I wait on CHELATION

> > until we can get her to have regular BMs (I tried everything

> > including energy medicine).

>

> My son is now vastly improved after 50 rounds of ALA chelation. I

> mentioned the similarities between my son and your child to show you

> that you should definitely try it!

Hi,

Same here... Your son sounds so much like mine used to be... It's amazing.

We chelated for a year and my son is no longer autistic. He can speak (not

" normal " but we can understand each other now), he can eat a lot of foods, he

can play, and he is SO SMART! I cannot believe it sometimes

You should definitely try chelation.

My son was 3 when we started and he also had constipation and a lot of other

problems. Chelation not only that didn't make things worse, but actually it

improved everything. Yeast is gone, constipation is gone, he is doing very

well. And this didn't happen after a year. It happened actually pretty fast.

After a few rounds of chelation.

Good luck

Valentina

[Guest guest]

Hello Indu,

> She had a lot of birth trauma, some issues in the first year, nasty

> regression following a period of vaccines (MMR, HiB, Flu),

> pneumonia, ear infections and several antibiotics.

regarding the birth trauma, you may at some point want to check

into cranial-sacral therapy and/or cranial osteopathy. I don't

know if these are appropriate for her--- it would depend on

the sort of trauma. Some birth trauma would result in stresses

on the head (the bones and joints between the bones). The

cranial manipulation therapy is in order to relieve these

stresses. If you want to read more, there are a few links

about it, here:

/files/HOW_TO_find_doctor

[look for section on cranial-sacral and cranial osteopathy]

> She is mercury toxic according to Andy's counting rules, but my

> local DANs and Dr Amy Holmes suggested that I wait on CHELATION

> until we can get her to have regular BMs (I tried everything

> including energy medicine). She is already 5.5 and I finally

> started giving her enemas everyday. Can we start chelating her now

> that she is getting daily enemas?

I think you can. I would suggest that IF you choose to do so,

you should be very attentive to see if chelation has any

effect (positive or negative) on her bowel situation, and

take appropriate actions.

> Do kids who are so sensitive

> regress further on chelation?

some kids get serious yeast and gut bacterial growths.

Then these have to be treated, too.

> I am also worried that we may not be

> making progress because she is too toxic and too damaged?

if you are not chelating, then she won't detox.

> Sorry for such a long mail.....I would appreciate any kind of input

> in this matter.....I am totally confused about what I am

> doing....the more supplements I add the more I am worried that I am

> loading her with vits that she cannot absorb or use....if I don't do

> anythign she still regresses. Help!!!

Yes, it is confusing. It is sort of a " catch 22 " :

if you don't chelate, she doesn't detox.

if you do chelate you can get gut problems.

if you don't chelate the mercury keeps you from being able

to permanently clear up the gut problems.

It is tough, but you have to somehow judge which problems are

worth waiting and which ones aren't, and you can't wait forever,

or she stays toxic. You have to somehow evaluate what are your

choices for treatment of the bowel issues? How long will it take?

I wish you much peace in making these decisions.

best wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

I to just know Retts to affect girls and can be much more in regressive

skills with less changes by doing things people to do with autism , same

with fragile x. I to not be to say these are to be issues with your daughter

but would be concerned why no real improvements after all the interventions

done already. It to seem like something should be to have made some gains.

Unless something else to be involved too.

Sondra