Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 We have been using the TTFD (allithiamine) w/ our son who could not tolerate ALA and he is doing fine. I have not tested yet to see what is coming out, if anything. He does seem to tolerate it well. (just joined this grp yesterday) [ ] ALLITHIAMINE?Good? Hi, I am trying to figure out if I should try allithiamine with my daughter. She can really use the thiamine and the other part -- the Alli part -- is a mercaptan that has two sulfurs (di-mercaptan) that pulls out metals from some kids. I know the taurine problem and I know this chelation also needs attention to adding B Vitamins, minerals, etc. Has anyone had good or bad success? We would not overlap the ALA/DMSA Andy Cutler style chelation. If not, maybe someone can tell me whether Allithiamine helped increase thiamine (B1) a lot. I was told by Coastal Compounding that the ALLITHIAMINE is a fat soluble version of thiamine that is well absorbed. The oral version is not well absorbed. Any help would be appreciated. in Salt Lake City C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 I tried allithiame for 6 weeks with my son who hasa been chealting using Andy's protocol for 14 months. around week 2 of the cream we started giving him biocidin for parasites so right there I'm doing two new things at a time. And I know the biocidin causes die off etc. Anyway my son was extremely clingy and stimmy - stuck on Beauty and the beast for 4 weeks. We stopped the cream and he's back to noraml. Was it die off or the cream? I don't know. I may resvisited the cream in the spring. I tried the cream on my 2 year old as well and didn't see any positives - but have seen positives with chelation - linking words, manding but still stimmy. I stopped the cream on her as well after 6 weeks. holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 > We have been using the TTFD (allithiamine) w/ our son who could not tolerate ALA and he is doing fine. I have not tested yet to see what is coming out, if anything. He does seem to tolerate it well. > (just joined this grp yesterday) How were you using the ALA? How much? How often? How much does your child weigh? Do you know the plasma cysteine level? > I am trying to figure out if I should try allithiamine with my daughter. She > can really use the thiamine and the other part -- the Alli part -- is a > mercaptan that has two sulfurs (di-mercaptan) that pulls out metals from some > kids. Kinda sorta maybe. It doesn't seem to pull metals from anyone I've seen test results on. When I look at the molecule I wouldn't expect it to pull metals. >I know the taurine problem and I know this chelation also needs > attention to adding B Vitamins, minerals, etc. > > Has anyone had good or bad success? Lots of bad stories on list if you check. I suggest using maybe 25-50 mg doses of it and seeing if it helps. > We would not overlap the ALA/DMSA Andy > Cutler style chelation. > > If not, maybe someone can tell me whether Allithiamine helped increase > thiamine (B1) a lot. > > I was told by Coastal Compounding that the ALLITHIAMINE is a fat soluble > version of thiamine that is well absorbed. Correct. > The oral version is not well absorbed. False. Presumably they are functionally illiterate and can't read the literature that is almost trivally easy to dig up on medline. It is well absorbed orally even by people who don't absorb thiamine well. > Any help would be appreciated. > in Salt Lake City > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 In a message dated 2/10/2003 11:43:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, msalinas@... writes: << I do care because if Andy says this is not a 'chelator', many may be inclined to not try it, even if there is a potential benefit via some alternative path such as the one you suggest above. By the way, I may have LOL'ed the first time, too, but I think we're past laughing this agent off so easily. Max in VA >> All I can add it my child is doing fantastic with the combination of ALA (Andy's protocol) and TTFD (first oral and now TD). I do not have any tests to prove what metals are being removed by which route or by which agent but the recovery I have witnessed in my own child since the inception of both is proof for me to continue both. Years of diets helped but not to this extent!! Michele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 In a message dated 2/10/2003 11:43:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, msalinas@... writes: > I do care because if Andy says this is not a 'chelator', many may be > inclined to not try it, even if there is a potential benefit via some > alternative path such as the one you suggest above. > > By the way, I may have LOL'ed the first time, too, but I think we're > past laughing this agent off so easily. And for us who are unable to use DMSA/ALA, I sure am glad there's something else I can try. I should be getting mine in the mail today along with transdermal glutathione. I'll keep everyone posted on how Hunter does with it. We sure could use some prayers that this will work. Nothing has to date. Jo A " Mom on a Mission for Autism " <A HREF= " www.momsonamissionforautism.org " >www.momsonamissionforautism.org</A> SC Chapter of TAAP <A HREF= " http://www.autismautoimmunityproject.org " >www.autismautoimmunityproject.or\ g</A> Autism One <A HREF= " http://www.autismone.org " >www.autismone.org</A> But this is what the LORD says: " Yes, captives will be taken from warriors, and plunder retrieved from the fierce; I will contend with those who contend with you, and your children I will save. " (Isaiah 49:25, NIV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 This is the third time I report on my son's urine toxic elements test while on TTFD, but the messages have gone largely unnoticed. I'll insert my comments in the message below. Max in VA I just received 's urine toxic elements results while only on TTFD. He'd been on Coastal's transdermal lotion at 1/2 ml BID for five weeks at this point. Since I also still do the 'traditional' DMSA/ALA chelation on a 3-on/4-off most weeks (and continue TTFD through those 'on' days), I should also note that the collection for this test was taken four days after his previous DMSA or ALA dose. In any case, his mercury reading is 4.9 (about 2/3 of the way into the yellow on DDI's test). This is the second largest reading I've seen for ! If we're getting this kind of output all the time, this is great! I then tried again in message 71980 when I again reported the mercury dump and asked the following questions: Could the DMSA and/or ALA cause the mercury dump four days later, or would it indicate that the allithiamine is indeed chelating? I should mention that his previous urine test while on DMSA a month earlier had a reading of dL for mercury. Also, a fecal test done during the very next round (i.e. collected two days after the allithimine-only urine collection) had a reading of dL for mercury. > > >I know the taurine problem and I know this chelation also needs > > attention to adding B Vitamins, minerals, etc. > > > > Has anyone had good or bad success? > > Lots of bad stories on list if you check. > > I suggest using maybe 25-50 mg doses of it and seeing if it helps. > > > We would not overlap the ALA/DMSA Andy > > Cutler style chelation. > > > > If not, maybe someone can tell me whether Allithiamine helped > increase > > thiamine (B1) a lot. > > > > I was told by Coastal Compounding that the ALLITHIAMINE is a fat > soluble > > version of thiamine that is well absorbed. > > Correct. > > > The oral version is not well absorbed. > > False. Presumably they are functionally illiterate and can't read the > literature that is almost trivally easy to dig up on medline. It is > well absorbed orally even by people who don't absorb thiamine well. As I understand it, the theory is something along the lines of the thiamine and the mercaptan breaking apart too soon for the mercaptan to get to where it needs to go to chelate well. So oral may well be a good way to get thiamine, but perhaps not the mercaptan. > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > in Salt Lake City > > > > I think there are many out here who are intrigued by this potential method of chelation because it may add a good weapon to our arsenal of choices. I have heard of others who have also seen metals come out while only on TTFD. So it seems to indicate that it is providing some benefit to those who are metal toxic. Max in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 >>>> I think there are many out here who are intrigued by this potential method of chelation because it may add a good weapon to our arsenal of choices. I have heard of others who have also seen metals come out while only on TTFD. So it seems to indicate that it is providing some benefit to those who are metal toxic. Here is a question: Could it be providing some benefit to those who are metal toxic, and may be facilitating metal removal by some mechanism that is not 'chelation' as defined? So something is going on in the body, and metals are coming out, and there is overall detox, and you see improvement, but it is not chelation in the technical definition of the word (that is, the chelator goes in and latches on to a metal and personally removes it from the body). Via this description there would be no conflict between what Andy C and you experienced. Is this a plausible explanation? Do you even care as long as your child is getting better? LOL . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 > >>>> I think there are many out here who are intrigued by this > potential method of chelation because it may add a good weapon to > our arsenal of choices. I have heard of others who have also seen > metals come out while only on TTFD. So it seems to indicate that it > is providing some benefit to those who are metal toxic. > > Here is a question: Could it be providing some benefit to those who > are metal toxic, and may be facilitating metal removal by some > mechanism that is not 'chelation' as defined? So something is going > on in the body, and metals are coming out, and there is overall > detox, and you see improvement, but it is not chelation in the > technical definition of the word (that is, the chelator goes in and > latches on to a metal and personally removes it from the body). I suspect this dintinction may only be important to a chemist, not to a parent who is interested in detoxing (i.e. 'chelating') their his/her child of heavy metals. > > Via this description there would be no conflict between what Andy C > and you experienced. Is this a plausible explanation? Do you even > care as long as your child is getting better? LOL I do care because if Andy says this is not a 'chelator', many may be inclined to not try it, even if there is a potential benefit via some alternative path such as the one you suggest above. By the way, I may have LOL'ed the first time, too, but I think we're past laughing this agent off so easily. Max in VA > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 >>>>> I do care because if Andy says this is not a 'chelator', many may be inclined to not try it, even if there is a potential benefit via some alternative path such as the one you suggest above. So the real mental shift here may need to be whether you absolutely feel you must have: - a true Chelator, versus (TTFD may not do this; MT therapy does not do this) - any method which happens to somehow get heavy metals out (TTFD may do this; Pfeiffer MT therapy may do this) This may explain why many people detox by several methods - some being chelators, and some not. Or why one method will not work with one person, but does wonderfully with another. Depending on the toxin, the method used, and the person's biology. Maybe if there was more acceptance that Overall Metal Removal may be via 'chelation' or 'other detox' there would be less confusion and arguing. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 There is no evidence allithiamine removes any metals. I hear tons of random claims, but what little real data I have seen does not suppoort this hypothesis, and one would not reasonalby expect TTFD to be a chelator. Please note that if you simply do a lot of urine mercury or toxics tests, some will randomly come out higher than others. If then you get all excited when the one taken on allithiamine that is randomly higher means it is a chelator, and don't notice the ones taken on allithiamine that are randomly lower, you might get confused about the issue. Andy . . . .. . . . . . . . . . > >>>> I think there are many out here who are intrigued by this > potential method of chelation because it may add a good weapon to > our arsenal of choices. I have heard of others who have also seen > metals come out while only on TTFD. So it seems to indicate that it > is providing some benefit to those who are metal toxic. > > Here is a question: Could it be providing some benefit to those who > are metal toxic, and may be facilitating metal removal by some > mechanism that is not 'chelation' as defined? So something is going > on in the body, and metals are coming out, and there is overall > detox, and you see improvement, but it is not chelation in the > technical definition of the word (that is, the chelator goes in and > latches on to a metal and personally removes it from the body). > > Via this description there would be no conflict between what Andy C > and you experienced. Is this a plausible explanation? Do you even > care as long as your child is getting better? LOL > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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