RE: Re: Carnitine?

December 30, 2010

I hear ya! I'm definitely trying to relax when I can. I daydream about Caribbean vacations daily. Does that count? - Kirk-To: mb12 valtrex From: hunter02_2002@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 21:15:05 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine?

Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot. I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but "poor parenting" and then "slightly mentally retarded" -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it "hell." Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you. You know what they say about "paranoia?" -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies" either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result). Hell, I think it was Einstein that said "if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search." I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like "I'm in it for the long haul.." Bring it. There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm "dipping my big toe" as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this

stuff can happen for no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS. Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....A great book I just read

"Could it be B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis." Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura >> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean? > > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia). > > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.>

December 31, 2010

Agreed. It is hard to stop sometimes. It makes us feel like we're wasting or losing time. But sometimes, we have to stop and re-evaluate, tweek things a little. Sometimes we can get a fresh view and new ideas by stepping back for a moment and looking at things from "a distance". I know for house, we both do better when I stop to take a breath and absorb what I've learned. We do stop for "holidays" here and there. It takes the stress off of him even more so than myself. I know just how you feel, . We've all been there (sometimes more than once). I've had many a night where I don't know whether to thank God for the information overload or cry from being so overwhelmed by it. But knowledge is power, even in the

instances when we really don't want to know the things we've learned and days when it seems so unfair to our children that we do have to learn about this stuff in the first place. In the mean time, you've found a good place here. When friends, neighbors and relatives don't get it, we do. It'll be alright - atleast you know that no matter how that appt. might go, there are strategies you can put it in place. Getting your kiddo as healthy as you can now will make it easier for her body to handle whatever comes her way. You're empowering both yourself and her. In this very moment, you are frightened out of your mind. But at the end of the day, you know you will grab this thing by the balls. That is, after all, why you are here. : ) Sending much love your way-TammyTo: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:15:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine?

Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot. I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but "poor parenting" and then "slightly mentally retarded" -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it "hell." Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you. You know what they say about "paranoia?" -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies" either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result). Hell, I think it was Einstein that said "if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search." I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like "I'm in it for the long haul.." Bring it. There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm "dipping my big toe" as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this

stuff can happen for no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS. Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....A great book I just

read

"Could it be B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis." Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy

for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura >> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean? > > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back

and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia). > > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.>

December 31, 2010

Agreed. It is hard to stop sometimes. It makes us feel like we're wasting or losing time. But sometimes, we have to stop and re-evaluate, tweek things a little. Sometimes we can get a fresh view and new ideas by stepping back for a moment and looking at things from "a distance". I know for house, we both do better when I stop to take a breath and absorb what I've learned. We do stop for "holidays" here and there. It takes the stress off of him even more so than myself. I know just how you feel, . We've all been there (sometimes more than once). I've had many a night where I don't know whether to thank God for the information overload or cry from being so overwhelmed by it. But knowledge is power, even in the

instances when we really don't want to know the things we've learned and days when it seems so unfair to our children that we do have to learn about this stuff in the first place. In the mean time, you've found a good place here. When friends, neighbors and relatives don't get it, we do. It'll be alright - atleast you know that no matter how that appt. might go, there are strategies you can put it in place. Getting your kiddo as healthy as you can now will make it easier for her body to handle whatever comes her way. You're empowering both yourself and her. In this very moment, you are frightened out of your mind. But at the end of the day, you know you will grab this thing by the balls. That is, after all, why you are here. : ) Sending much love your way-TammyTo: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:15:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine?

Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot. I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but "poor parenting" and then "slightly mentally retarded" -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it "hell." Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you. You know what they say about "paranoia?" -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies" either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result). Hell, I think it was Einstein that said "if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search." I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like "I'm in it for the long haul.." Bring it. There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm "dipping my big toe" as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this

stuff can happen for no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS. Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....A great book I just

read

"Could it be B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis." Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy

for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura >> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean? > > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back

and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia). > > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.>

December 31, 2010

Agreed. It is hard to stop sometimes. It makes us feel like we're wasting or losing time. But sometimes, we have to stop and re-evaluate, tweek things a little. Sometimes we can get a fresh view and new ideas by stepping back for a moment and looking at things from "a distance". I know for house, we both do better when I stop to take a breath and absorb what I've learned. We do stop for "holidays" here and there. It takes the stress off of him even more so than myself. I know just how you feel, . We've all been there (sometimes more than once). I've had many a night where I don't know whether to thank God for the information overload or cry from being so overwhelmed by it. But knowledge is power, even in the

instances when we really don't want to know the things we've learned and days when it seems so unfair to our children that we do have to learn about this stuff in the first place. In the mean time, you've found a good place here. When friends, neighbors and relatives don't get it, we do. It'll be alright - atleast you know that no matter how that appt. might go, there are strategies you can put it in place. Getting your kiddo as healthy as you can now will make it easier for her body to handle whatever comes her way. You're empowering both yourself and her. In this very moment, you are frightened out of your mind. But at the end of the day, you know you will grab this thing by the balls. That is, after all, why you are here. : ) Sending much love your way-TammyTo: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:15:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine?

Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot. I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but "poor parenting" and then "slightly mentally retarded" -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it "hell." Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you. You know what they say about "paranoia?" -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies" either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result). Hell, I think it was Einstein that said "if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search." I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like "I'm in it for the long haul.." Bring it. There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm "dipping my big toe" as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this

stuff can happen for no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS. Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....A great book I just

read

"Could it be B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis." Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy

for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura >> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean? > > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back

and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia). > > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.>

December 31, 2010

Thanks Tammy! I am just so glad to have found this forum. Like you said, the info can be scary, but it is crucial to self-educate. I'm quickly losing confidence in much of the medical community (there are some good ones, but few and far between), so it's nice to get real info from those of you who have been there. Thanks again.- Kirk-To: mb12 valtrex From: t.lynn28@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:06:37 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Agreed. It is hard to stop sometimes. It makes us feel like we're wasting or losing time. But sometimes, we have to stop and re-evaluate, tweek things a little. Sometimes we can get a fresh view and new ideas by stepping back for a moment and looking at things from "a distance". I know for house, we both do better when I stop to take a breath and absorb what I've learned. We do stop for "holidays" here and there. It takes the stress off of him even more so than myself. I know just how you feel, . We've all been there (sometimes more than once). I've had many a night where I don't know whether to thank God for the information overload or cry from being so overwhelmed by it. But knowledge is power, even in the

instances when we really don't want to know the things we've learned and days when it seems so unfair to our children that we do have to learn about this stuff in the first place. In the mean time, you've found a good place here. When friends, neighbors and relatives don't get it, we do. It'll be alright - atleast you know that no matter how that appt. might go, there are strategies you can put it in place. Getting your kiddo as healthy as you can now will make it easier for her body to handle whatever comes her way. You're empowering both yourself and her. In this very moment, you are frightened out of your mind. But at the end of the day, you know you will grab this thing by the balls. That is, after all, why you are here. : ) Sending much love your way-TammyTo: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:15:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine?

Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot. I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but "poor parenting" and then "slightly mentally retarded" -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it "hell." Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you. You know what they say about "paranoia?" -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies" either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result). Hell, I think it was Einstein that said "if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search." I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like "I'm in it for the long haul.." Bring it. There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm "dipping my big toe" as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this

stuff can happen for no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS. Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....A great book I just

read

"Could it be B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis." Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy

for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura >> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean? > > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back

and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia). > > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.>

December 31, 2010

Thanks Tammy! I am just so glad to have found this forum. Like you said, the info can be scary, but it is crucial to self-educate. I'm quickly losing confidence in much of the medical community (there are some good ones, but few and far between), so it's nice to get real info from those of you who have been there. Thanks again.- Kirk-To: mb12 valtrex From: t.lynn28@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:06:37 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Agreed. It is hard to stop sometimes. It makes us feel like we're wasting or losing time. But sometimes, we have to stop and re-evaluate, tweek things a little. Sometimes we can get a fresh view and new ideas by stepping back for a moment and looking at things from "a distance". I know for house, we both do better when I stop to take a breath and absorb what I've learned. We do stop for "holidays" here and there. It takes the stress off of him even more so than myself. I know just how you feel, . We've all been there (sometimes more than once). I've had many a night where I don't know whether to thank God for the information overload or cry from being so overwhelmed by it. But knowledge is power, even in the

instances when we really don't want to know the things we've learned and days when it seems so unfair to our children that we do have to learn about this stuff in the first place. In the mean time, you've found a good place here. When friends, neighbors and relatives don't get it, we do. It'll be alright - atleast you know that no matter how that appt. might go, there are strategies you can put it in place. Getting your kiddo as healthy as you can now will make it easier for her body to handle whatever comes her way. You're empowering both yourself and her. In this very moment, you are frightened out of your mind. But at the end of the day, you know you will grab this thing by the balls. That is, after all, why you are here. : ) Sending much love your way-TammyTo: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:15:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine?

Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot. I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but "poor parenting" and then "slightly mentally retarded" -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it "hell." Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you. You know what they say about "paranoia?" -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies" either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result). Hell, I think it was Einstein that said "if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search." I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like "I'm in it for the long haul.." Bring it. There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm "dipping my big toe" as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this

stuff can happen for no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS. Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....A great book I just

read

"Could it be B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis." Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy

for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura >> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean? > > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back

and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia). > > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.>

December 31, 2010

,I've lost confidence and trying to figure out a way to go to med school or some type of medical training so I can get paid for what I've been learning! LOL

Thanks Tammy! I am just so glad to have found this forum. Like you said, the info can be scary, but it is crucial to self-educate. I'm quickly losing confidence in much of the medical community (there are some good ones, but few and far between), so it's nice to get real info from those of you who have been there. Thanks again.

- Kirk-To: mb12 valtrex

From: t.lynn28@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:06:37 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Agreed. It is hard to stop sometimes. It makes us feel like we're wasting or losing time. But sometimes, we have to stop and re-evaluate, tweek things a little. Sometimes we can get a fresh view and new ideas by stepping back for a moment and looking at things from " a distance " . I know for house, we both do better when I stop to take a breath and absorb what I've learned. We do stop for " holidays " here and there. It takes the stress off of him even more so than myself.

I know just how you feel, . We've all been there (sometimes more than once). I've had many a night where I don't know whether to thank God for the information overload or cry from being so overwhelmed by it. But knowledge is power, even in the

instances when we really don't want to know the things we've learned and days when it seems so unfair to our children that we do have to learn about this stuff in the first place. In the mean time, you've found a good place here. When friends, neighbors and relatives don't get it, we do. It'll be alright - atleast you know that no matter how that appt. might go, there are strategies you can put it in place. Getting your kiddo as healthy as you can now will make it easier for her body to handle whatever comes her way. You're empowering both yourself and her. In this very moment, you are frightened out of your mind. But at the end of the day, you know you will grab this thing by the balls. That is, after all, why you are here. : )

Sending much love your way-Tammy

To: mb12 valtrex

Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:15:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex

Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine?

Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot.

I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800

Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but " poor parenting " and then " slightly mentally retarded " -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it " hell. "

Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you.

You know what they say about " paranoia? " -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies " either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result).

Hell, I think it was Einstein that said " if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search. " I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like " I'm in it for the long haul.. " Bring it.

There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...

laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex

Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm " dipping my big toe " as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this

stuff can happen for no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000

Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS.

Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....

A great book I just

read

" Could it be B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis. " Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467

The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.

Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy

for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura

>> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean?

> > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back

and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia).

> > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.

>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

December 31, 2010

My husband tells me all the time that I should be doing this for a living. He can't believe all the info I am spouting off all day long. - Kirk-To: mb12 valtrex From: bellbaby@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 10:49:20 -0500Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

,I've lost confidence and trying to figure out a way to go to med school or some type of medical training so I can get paid for what I've been learning! LOL

Thanks Tammy! I am just so glad to have found this forum. Like you said, the info can be scary, but it is crucial to self-educate. I'm quickly losing confidence in much of the medical community (there are some good ones, but few and far between), so it's nice to get real info from those of you who have been there. Thanks again.

- Kirk-To: mb12 valtrex

From: t.lynn28@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:06:37 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Agreed. It is hard to stop sometimes. It makes us feel like we're wasting or losing time. But sometimes, we have to stop and re-evaluate, tweek things a little. Sometimes we can get a fresh view and new ideas by stepping back for a moment and looking at things from "a distance". I know for house, we both do better when I stop to take a breath and absorb what I've learned. We do stop for "holidays" here and there. It takes the stress off of him even more so than myself.

I know just how you feel, . We've all been there (sometimes more than once). I've had many a night where I don't know whether to thank God for the information overload or cry from being so overwhelmed by it. But knowledge is power, even in the

instances when we really don't want to know the things we've learned and days when it seems so unfair to our children that we do have to learn about this stuff in the first place. In the mean time, you've found a good place here. When friends, neighbors and relatives don't get it, we do. It'll be alright - atleast you know that no matter how that appt. might go, there are strategies you can put it in place. Getting your kiddo as healthy as you can now will make it easier for her body to handle whatever comes her way. You're empowering both yourself and her. In this very moment, you are frightened out of your mind. But at the end of the day, you know you will grab this thing by the balls. That is, after all, why you are here. : )

Sending much love your way-Tammy

To: mb12 valtrex

Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:15:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex

Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine?

Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot.

I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800

Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but "poor parenting" and then "slightly mentally retarded" -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it "hell."

Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you.

You know what they say about "paranoia?" -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies" either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result).

Hell, I think it was Einstein that said "if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search." I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like "I'm in it for the long haul.." Bring it.

There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...

laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex

Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm "dipping my big toe" as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this

stuff can happen for no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000

Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS.

Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....

A great book I just

read

"Could it be B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis." Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467

The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.

Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy

for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura

>> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean?

> > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back

and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia).

> > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.

>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

December 31, 2010

Toni, after you recover your kids (and we know you will), you should really consider becoming a nutritionist...a REAL nutritionist. You're a walking encyclopedia when it comes to these diets and not to mention an amazing source of support. I wonder how many pay weeks it would take to cover co-pays, therapies, supps and food? ugh.

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 10:49:20 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

,I've lost confidence and trying to figure out a way to go to med school or some type of medical training so I can get paid for what I've been learning! LOL

Thanks Tammy! I am just so glad to have found this forum. Like you said, the info can be scary, but it is crucial to self-educate. I'm quickly losing confidence in much of the medical community (there are some good ones, but few and far between), so it's nice to get real info from those of you who have been there. Thanks again.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: t.lynn28@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:06:37 -0800

Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Agreed. It is hard to stop sometimes. It makes us feel like we're wasting or losing time. But sometimes, we have to stop and re-evaluate, tweek things a little. Sometimes we can get a fresh view and new ideas by stepping back for a moment and looking at things from "a distance". I know for house, we both do better when I stop to take a breath and absorb what I've learned. We do stop for "holidays" here and there. It takes the stress off of him even more so than myself. I know just how you feel, . We've all been there (sometimes more than once). I've had many a night where I don't know whether to thank God for the information overload or cry from being so overwhelmed by it. But knowledge is power, even in the instances when we really don't want to know the things we've learned and days when it seems so unfair to our children that we do have to learn about this stuff in

the first place. In the mean time, you've found a good place here. When friends, neighbors and relatives don't get it, we do. It'll be alright - atleast you know that no matter how that appt. might go, there are strategies you can put it in place. Getting your kiddo as healthy as you can now will make it easier for her body to handle whatever comes her way. You're empowering both yourself and her. In this very moment, you are frightened out of your mind. But at the end of the day, you know you will grab this thing by the balls. That is, after all, why you are here. : ) Sending much love your way-Tammy

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:15:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

Ms. . People that fight wars do something called R & R. That's how we keep fighting wars. You must do the same. Jim

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 12:07:49 AMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,Just made me cry again - but in a good way. It's nice to chat with people in the same boat, especially when most people in my life are not even close to being in the same ocean. They just don't get it, and the lack of support can be difficult. But this helps. A lot. I'm the same way - wanting the straight line. Just had that conversation with my husband tonight. He said I need to just stop for a while and relax - to which I responded 'my kids are at stake here. I can't relax.' I feel like I just need to keep going. I know it's important to take time outs once in a while. But the 'take some time off from this' advice really never helps, and never feels like a possibility. Thanks so much for your support and kind words. It helps more than you know.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:30:43 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Carnitine?

I got shivers reading your post...I know exactly where you are...I cried a lot and when I heard nothing from the Dr.'s and nothing but "poor parenting" and then "slightly mentally retarded" -- it's not a good place. It's a place of uncertainty, and limbo. I call it "hell." Here's the good news. If you believe it's hopeless, it is. And I don't think you believe that. (that's the good news part.) Wait and see doesn't work. Your intuition works well. People offer you only what they can -meaning from experience or if they happen across something and it sounds like you. You know what they say about "paranoia?" -- Total situational awareness. Love that saying. I love paranoid people, keeps me on my toes and looking...I don't think there is only one way to win, I think there are several, I am just a person that likes straight lines -- it's the fastest way to the

finish line. Which is why I am always looking. I am not a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of girl...or 'skipping thru the lillies" either, if I'm not getting results, I'm moving on...and I don't like repeating stuff over and over and over...it's insanity - (repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result). Hell, I think it was Einstein that said "if we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it re-search." I am sorry you are having a rough night...I know what those are. I take my B12, and L-Theanine (thanks to the posters on this board) along with my B Complex (stress formula) ...and I'm like "I'm in it for the long haul.." Bring it. There have been days that I wanted to quit...throw myself down on the floor and just give up (wish for a non painful death)...apparently, the ride isn't over, because I am still here..so, I'll be here and you'll be here, and the rest of us will be

here, until here isn't a place we need to be anymore. So, when you feel like you need a hand, take mine..I've got two. Hang in there...Take an inventory of what you've got, and then see where you need to be...laura (hugs, big one!)

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:02:27 PMSubject: RE: Re: Carnitine? Thanks ,The problem is that I feel like I'm "dipping my big toe" as you say, into too many things, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere sometimes. After reading the link that Cheryl posted for me about carnitine deficiency, I have not been able to stop crying since. It sounds like what my daughter has, and the words 'possible sudden death' were a little much for me (not blaming Cheryl for posting this - it is actually very helpful info that I will bring up at our dr appt). There is just too much info sometimes. It is so overwhelming. I guess I'm still kind of new to all of this (even though I have been searching for answers since the twins were 6 months old). I just feel like every day I am going down a new road. Some new info presents itself and yet another sleepless night results. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. It's just hard. I have been told by multiple drs that we should just wait and see - this stuff can happen for

no reason at all. But that mother's intuition is a very real thing and it keeps coming back to haunt me. I have never wanted so badly to be proven wrong - to be told I am a paranoid freak (which I am told pretty regularly anyway). But almost every one of my fears keep coming true. I guess I just have to keep going with the supplements and the dr appts until I get to the end. I just need some reassurance that the 'end' actually exists. I guess that's what we all need. Sorry - just venting. Rough night.

- Kirk-

To: mb12 valtrex From: laurargoddin@...Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:03 +0000Subject: Re: Carnitine?

Hair loss can be explained by anemia (like comes out in clumps) and in a hormonal imbalance. (that happened to me at 8 and it grew back that summer - Ped told my Mom that I was under extreme stress)Everything else sounds like my brother Rob - low muscle tone, pica, food sensitivities, big head (enlarged head - could be encephalitis? due to viral) and odd breath smell (does it smell like licorice/garlic? don't laugh..) -- these were all things that were noted when he was born up to 3 years when they diagnosed him Autism PDD-NOS. Is your child very pale? And have eyesight issues (myopic?)...Rob's test's came back with high/normal B12, yet he had all the deficiency signs. (He's 26 now) -- Now, since the diet and everything else - he's severely deficient - in like everything (which means, we are finally getting some things right!) and he started losing fat and keeping his muscle....A great book I just read "Could it be

B12, an Epidemic of a misdiagnosis." Has a whole chart of what it could be and how to treat it...really great information.http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-Epidemic-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884956467The nasal spray worked wonders on him too. I think it works better than the shots now (he's been on shots for about 3 months).We used MRM's L-Carnitine w/COQ10 (not great ingredients) and this is what finally got his B12 to show that he was deficient, and he made huge strides. (His B12 was just hanging out in his blood, not really doing what it was supposed to do, because it lacked transport) - we tried other brands, but this one worked well for him.Because Rob is such an anomaly, I have been looking into other therapies that I think might benefit him (mega-nutrients thru juicing, Gerson Therapy for Cancer patients - it doesn't take much to dip your big toe in the pool of info there and see if it's something

that might benefit your baby.)I hope this helps. laura >> Hi,> > Here I am completely confused again. One of my twins who has low tone, GCS sensitivities, leaky gut (I think), had blood work done a while back. I got a call a few days ago from the children's hospital that some of her blood work came back 'abnormal'. I know one of the tests she mentioned was carnitine. Now they are sending her to a metabolic specialist. Can anyone tell me what an abnormal carnitine test could mean? > > A little background - had mild pica as a one-two year old (ate dirt, rocks, moss). Has gluten, casein and soy sensitivities. Supposedly has inflammation, malabsorbtion, leaky gut. Has a lot of hair on back and

legs (I keep being told that this is nothing but there has to be something to it - my husband and I are not hairy people). She also lost quite a bit of hair around the same time that she had the pica (you could see her scalp). The only other things that have been brought to my attention are that she is extremely low tone, has unusually high B12 levels, has a larger than normal head size, and at times has an odd breath smell (we have ruled out diabetes and hypoglycemia). > > Sorry for the long e-mail. We have been to specialist after specialist and now we have to go to this metabolic specialist (who we already saw and who totally blew us off the first time). I just wanted to see if anyone here could shed some light on what might be going on because the doctors can't seem to get on the same page and piece together this puzzle. Thanks for any advice or info.>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

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