Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 In a message dated 1/28/2003 4:17:48 PM Central Standard Time, kjorn@... writes: > Also, the GFCF is chocked full of xanthum gum, guar gum, careegenan > gum (sp), and other things to get the food to stick together. Just want to mention that my son, on a GFCF diet for nearly two years, has rarely had any of the above. Going GFCF for us did not mean adding a bunch of starchy or sugary stuff. He's also on a no-sugar diet (except for a small amount of fruit once a day), no juice, cookies, candy, cake at all. We concentrate on proteiny foods, veggies, and rice or quinoa or amaranth pancakes, waffles, pasta, cereal. But none of the gums above. I never found them necessary to adhere to a GFCF diet at all. As far as yeast, I think it's kind of borderline with my son. Has never shown up in a stool test ever. Not one little bit. Sometime organic acid tests show him a bit high in arabinose. But I DO think he shows yeasty symptoms sometimes (red around anus, rash on rear, hyperactivty, spaciness). This all started way before GFCF for us, though. Just our experience...Oh, and I didn't see dramatic gains from going GFCF either, as some people do report. I think it helped his constipation problems a great deal, and possibly some of his irritbility. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 > Someone made the following fascinating comment during this weekend's > detox class. > > All the people I know how chelated didn't have all these yeast > explosions. None of them were GFCF. > While many people do benefit from the GFCF diet, I would like to > follow up on whether it makes people more susceptible to yeast > problems. I chelated my son for more than a year. Never really tried the diet. We started with lots of yeast and parasites. Chelation took care of them in about 4 or 5 months. While I do occasionally see some signs of yeast, I never treat it with antifungals. It happens usually in the third day of the chelation round (but not always, very seldom). By the end of the first day off the chelation, the signs are gone. Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 I just think that the same doctors who require gfcf recommend prescription medications for yeast. Margaret > > > I have considered trying > > > chelation. The DAN! doc recommends that he be on the > > > GFCF diet and supps to do the chelation. So, should I > > > put him back on them to do chelation? > > > > It is your decision, of course, but just so you know - a lot of > people > > chelate without the GFCF diet. > > Someone made the following fascinating comment during this weekend's > detox class. > > All the people I know how chelated didn't have all these yeast > explosions. None of them were GFCF. > > All the doctors who have terrible trouble with every kid having a > yeast explosion every time require their patients to be on the GFCF > diet. > > While many people do benefit from the GFCF diet, I would like to > follow up on whether it makes people more susceptible to yeast > problems. > > Andy . . . . . .. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 >>> All the people I know how chelated didn't have all these yeast > explosions. None of them were GFCF. > > All the doctors who have terrible trouble with every kid having a > yeast explosion every time require their patients to be on the GFCF diet. Yesssssss!!! Here is some information that is consistent with that observation. According to SCD researchers who have been following that diet for 40 years including many, many looks through microscopes at intestinal tissue....the GFCF diet encourages yeast and bacteria growth like no other. Well may the all-sugar-all-day- all-the-time diet would actually be faster in this. The feeling is that a GFCF diet encourages lots of potatoes, rice, pasta, sugar, fruits if tolerated, even soy etc. which are easily digested carbs and sugars. If a person has insufficient enzyme production of their own or an injured gut for whatever reason, the enzymes that digest certain proteins (including casein), lactase (milk sugar), and disaccarhides (sugars and staches) are not there functioning well. These enzymes are produced by the intestinal lining. When there is a damages lining, you have ineffective enzyme production. This was found to be the case by several researchers including Horvath. So you are putting the person on a diet of foods they can't digest, but the bacteria and yeast can digest these very nicely. One of the 'experts' of the SCD that wrote the main book on it says that grains can be harmful because the starch component of it. So if a person goes GFCF, they may see short improvement because those refined starches are taken out, but soon the person regresses or becomes worse because all the substituted foods are very starchy as well. Also, the GFCF is chocked full of xanthum gum, guar gum, careegenan gum (sp), and other things to get the food to stick together. Humans can barely digest these but the microbes can. Same with sucralose, pectin, and other things allowed on GFCF. So it is a diet that actually promotes dysbiosis. There is a rapidly growing number of people with children with autism conditions doing SCD after leaving GFCF and their kids are responding rapidly. This is backed up too by the fact that many people doing GFCF struggle endlessly with bad bacteria and yeast. Consider the enzymes track record. Many people who use Houston enzymes do much better off the GFCF diet that when on the diet. Some of these still struggled with yeast until No-Fenol came along. Now a number of people see great success with No-Fenol, Candex or Candidase. However, I can't recall yeast/bacteria becoming a problem if the person was not GFCF before. I will try to get some more information on this and please, everyone chip in with your experiences. It may be that is you need to chelate you would be far better off making sure you are not GFCF to prevent the endless bacteria/yeast overgrowths. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 My daughter had problems with bacteria BEFORE we started the gf/cf diet and before any biomedical treatments; however she didn't have a yeast problem. Now she does. I think you are right. I think we " created " that monster! Janet However, I can't recall yeast/bacteria becoming a problem > if the person was not GFCF before. > > I will try to get some more information on this and please, everyone > chip in with your experiences. It may be that is you need to chelate > you would be far better off making sure you are not GFCF to prevent > the endless bacteria/yeast overgrowths. > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 I know many kids who didn't have yeast issues when chelating who were also gfcf. My son only had two brief yeast flare-ups the entire 4 years he chelated and both were quickly handled with caprylic acid. Perhaps some of the substitutes folks are using for gfcf might be feeding yeast, or perhaps some of the substitutes are causing allergic reactions that are being mistaken for yeast problems or perhaps the docs who tend to recommend gfcf are quick to blame yeast for other chelation-related issues like depleted minerals or healing crisis periods as metals are dumped. But it's hard to believe that taking out gluten and caesin alone, assuming careful choice of substitutes, would lead to yeast problems. Now I have noticed a greater tendency for yeast flare-ups among the kids I know using both ALA and DMSA. Not sure if there is a connection there or not. Gaylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 In a message dated 1/28/03 4:17:09 PM Central Standard Time, kjorn@... writes: > The feeling is that a GFCF diet encourages lots of potatoes, rice, pasta, > sugar, > fruits if tolerated, even soy etc. Well yea, if that is the type of gfcf diet you are using, yes you would be feeding the bad gut bugs. Where did they get the idea that this was what the gfcf diet is? I know some folks go crazy with trying to substitute what their kids were craving before (strachy things and wheat), but as a rule, I find it hard to believe that many of the doctors would encourage folks to go heavy on these items instead of gluten. Then again, Dr. Goldberg suggests his patients use processed breads and white rice instead of whole grains because he thinks kids react less to them along with several other things that make me cringe, so I guess all docs have their own way of doing things. For the sake of info on kids who didn't have major yeast problems when chelating, my son eats some carbos -- mainly brown rice and corn -- but mostly sticks with meats, veggies and fruits. He occasionally eats gfcf cookies I bake myself but mostly keeps sugar out of his diet more out of choice on his part. The other kids I know who chelated on gfcf as well mostly had less pristine diets but I don't think they were really heavy carbo eaters. > Also, the GFCF is chocked full of xanthum gum, guar gum, careegenan > gum (sp), and other things to get the food to stick together. I guess this is the prepared, processed food substitutes? We typically stay away from processed foods but the one cookie mix we use does contain xanthan gum. I can see that you'd need these more when cooking with rice flour because it can cook up quite crumbly so that sounds like something to watch. Perhaps a lesson here is to go very very easy on the prepared gcfc food items and starchy things if you have a yeasty-kid? > There is a rapidly growing number of people with children with autism > conditions doing SCD after leaving GFCF and their kids are responding > rapidly. Where can I learn more about the SCD diet? Gaylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 > >>> All the people I know how chelated didn't have all these yeast > > explosions. None of them were GFCF. > > > > All the doctors who have terrible trouble with every kid having a > > yeast explosion every time require their patients to be on the > GFCF diet. > > Yesssssss!!! Here is some information that is consistent with that > observation. According to SCD researchers who have been following > that diet for 40 years including many, many looks through > microscopes at intestinal tissue....the GFCF diet encourages yeast > and bacteria growth like no other. ~~~~~I'm confused. Is that true? Then why would it EVER be recommended if it encouraged yeast and bacteria? Well may the all-sugar-all-day- > all-the-time diet would actually be faster in this. The feeling is > that a GFCF diet encourages lots of potatoes, rice, pasta ~~~~Pasta is made from wheat? , sugar, ~~~~~Why does it encourage SUGAR consumption? > fruits if tolerated, even soy etc. which are easily digested carbs > and sugars. If a person has insufficient enzyme production of their > own or an injured gut for whatever reason, the enzymes that digest > certain proteins (including casein), lactase (milk sugar), and > disaccarhides (sugars and staches) are not there functioning well. > These enzymes are produced by the intestinal lining. When there is a > damages lining, you have ineffective enzyme production. > > This was found to be the case by several researchers including > Horvath. So you are putting the person on a diet of foods they can't > digest, ~~~~~No, your taking them off foods they can't digest like milk?? but the bacteria and yeast can digest these very nicely. > > One of the 'experts' of the SCD that wrote the main book on it says > that grains can be harmful because the starch component of it. So if > a person goes GFCF, they may see short improvement because those > refined starches are taken out, but soon the person regresses or > becomes worse because all the substituted foods are very starchy as > well. ~~~~~If this is true then the GFCF diet shouldnt be recommended. > > Also, the GFCF is chocked full of xanthum gum, guar gum, careegenan > gum (sp) ~~~~~How is this possible? In meat and fruit and vegetables? , and other things to get the food to stick together. Humans > can barely digest these but the microbes can. Same with sucralose, > pectin, and other things allowed on GFCF. So it is a diet that > actually promotes dysbiosis. There is a rapidly growing number of > people with children with autism conditions doing SCD after leaving > GFCF and their kids are responding rapidly. This is backed up too by > the fact that many people doing GFCF struggle endlessly with bad > bacteria and yeast. ~~~~Im confused. Our five yr old autistic had bad bacteria and chronic constipation. I put him on the gfcf diet and he no longer has constipation. His stool doesnt stink up the WHOLE house and he is not rubbing his eyes. (Although, lately I have seen him rubbing his head again? Is this the yeast you speak of?) > > Consider the enzymes track record. Many people who use Houston > enzymes do much better off the GFCF diet that when on the diet. Some > of these still struggled with yeast until No-Fenol came along. Now a > number of people see great success with No-Fenol, Candex or > Candidase. However, I can't recall yeast/bacteria becoming a problem > if the person was not GFCF before. ~~~~~I know the gfcf cleared up his bad bacteria. But I dont really know what yeast symptoms are. This information is worrying me because im thinking I am doing him a disservice. Should I discontinue the gfcf diet immediately? > > I will try to get some more information on this and please, everyone > chip in with your experiences. It may be that is you need to chelate > you would be far better off making sure you are not GFCF to prevent > the endless bacteria/yeast overgrowths. ~~~~~This is what I want to find out before we start chelating. I just started him on enzymes about four days ago. I want to get him off the diet, for the simple reason that we miss nummy foods (yeast?). When I crave something I usally think its bad for me. So I thought craving sugar meant I had yeast? Problem is our autistic is non-verbal. So I dont know if he craves certain foods? Anyways, Im really confused now. I am going to try the Houston enzymes. But Im afraid to give him foods I know constipate him. Kalzangluv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 How do you know she now has a yeast problem, what are the symptoms? If you go off the gfcf diet will her bad bacteria come back? Our son is the same, he had bad bacteria before the gfcf diet and constipation. Kalzangluv > My daughter had problems with bacteria BEFORE we started the gf/cf > diet and before any biomedical treatments; however she didn't have a > yeast problem. Now she does. I think you are right. I think > we " created " that monster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Here is our experience. We were GFCF until Kolin became sensitive to everything, his diet consisted of Rice, Potatoes, Chicken and Pears. We were able to use Kirkman's enzymes for cross contaimination issues, but it still was not enough. Our biggest issues were phenolic in nature, so a friend suggested No Phenol. That was Amazing, we soon started with Pep and Hn-Zyme. This was three months prior to chelation. Since we started at the end of June, and complete 29 rounds with only two breaks of a week each to deal with minor Yeast flare ups. The flare-ups actually conincide with Holidays and Pure Sugar intakes. Kolin does enjoy his carbs, but I feel the enzymes break down the food wonderfully. So...Andy for your Poll Non-GFCF, 29 rounds, two minor yeast flare-ups that were clarified within a week. Sovern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 In a message dated 29/1/03 1:44:26 am, TwoTonks@... writes: > Just our experience...Oh, and I didn't see dramatic gains from going GFCF > either, as some people do report. I think it helped his constipation > problems > a great deal, and possibly some of his irritbility. > Me, too. Sorted my son's constipation problems. He also stopped smearing and was toilet trained immediately. I started GFCF with my son at the same time as I started Nystatin. GFCF/nystatin worked wonders. 3 y.o. with single utterances went to 3 word utterances and then onto full sentences within a year. At first I used the GFCF as an excuse to give any kind of refined garbage (even if homemade). Later I learned to substitute nut flours for rice flour. Ran into problems with phenols, of course. Had we been chelating, which we were not, I might have written in saying chelation worked for me. One of the problems with the chelation stats, as far as i can see, is that biomedically minded people would be embarking on multiple interventions at same time as chelating, so not always clear what causes what. But in the case of the diet and my son, that's all I did! That and the Nystatin. ABA was good, too. But if he ate the wrong food, it was useless. We used nut/seeds (soaked) and lots of fats (no trans or poor quality or overheated polyunsaturated). When i get a call from a mom with a child on GFCF and they ask if it's okay to eat Pringles or some such garbage, I say no. they say, But it's GFCF! That's very discouraging to me. When the GFCF was really the cornerstone of my son's improvements (which would be considered remarkable), it is hard to see it so heavily bashed. Yet, when misused the GFCF is a complete farce as describes. If a child is on a poor quality GFCF diet and then undergoes stressful intervention like chelation it is no wonder things go poorly. Of course, it could be the chelation itself was a wrong choice. Thank God for HNI Enzymes as it seems to be taking us out of this issue of GFCF, for those daring enough to try them. sadly, they will not meet every single child's needs. No single thing will. Just my opinion. Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 >>>but as a rule, I find it hard to believe that many of the doctors would encourage folks to go heavy on these items instead of gluten. >>> At the DAN! conference in Atlanta two years ago, they really emphasized the need for a lot of good quality protein in our kids' diets (particularly starting out the day with protein instead of carbs) and the need to be careful about simple carbs and sugars, so that should be old news for anyone who actually follows the DAN! protocol. But I get the impression that some doctors focus more on supplements and chelation and kind of forget about dietary issues (other than making sure the kids are GFCF and IgG tested). - Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 I really think it's more a matter of the over all diet rather than just a GF/CF issue. My son had yeast problems before the diet. With the diet, I took it as a chance to stop having starches all the time. (My husband does most the cooking, and always has to have a starch for him to be happy) I think all the carbs has more to do with it. Even with Tristan if he has lots of carbs the yeast will become an issue. We've been on the diet for almost 4 years. It hasn't led to the improvement I've seen in some, but it is worth keeping up with him. It's also seriously helped my allergies and asthma. I guess my son's just lucky that I've never found a bread or cookie recipe that's edible....even the birds wouldn't eat my bread!!! It's also obvious with him when we do buy gf/cf cookies for him, his yeast flares up...so again, I think it's the carbs and sugars...not the diet its self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 > While many people do benefit from the GFCF diet, I would like to > follow up on whether it makes people more susceptible to yeast > problems. > My son had worse yeast issues when he was gfcf while I chelated, not so many now that he can have g/c with enzymes. But honestly I could not tell you if it was diet/enzyme related, or just the progression of more rounds of chelation and less metals in his body. >>I just think that the same doctors who require gfcf recommend prescription medications for yeast. Margaret This may also be true, in that I use GSE for yeast and it keeps it under control. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 I agree with this issue that GFCF encourages yeast.I don't know why anyone would want to put their child on a gfcf diet unless there is a very compelling reason for it. Removing casein helps a person with a very poor memory and very low cognitive skills. Removing gluten helps a person who becomes extremely aggressive and explosive. When we put my son on a gfcf diet due to extreme aggression at age 12 after receiving the MMR booster vaccine, it calmed him down completely. It was a Godsend for that purpose. However, I feel it also led to his inhibition. In retrospect,I believe the yeast did this, and then chelation with ALA led to more yeast and still more inhibition. He takes enzymes but is still on the diet. I don't want to push him into going off the diet as he is very against doing so. He questions anything that looks suspicious or different. He is 18 and very strong, so I don't want to lose his trust by sneaking in the " real " cheese, etc. I want his cooperation on this. He is taking probiotics, GSE, Lauricidin and Ojibwa tea for the yeast. I really would like to brainwash him into easing off the diet. Any ideas? Rose So if > a person goes GFCF, they may see short improvement because those > refined starches are taken out, but soon the person regresses or > becomes worse because all the substituted foods are very starchy as > well. > .. It may be that is you need to chelate > you would be far better off making sure you are not GFCF to prevent > the endless bacteria/yeast overgrowths. > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Let me get this right...your 18 year old son wants to stay gfcf, and you want to sneak cheese into his diet? What on earth do you hope to gain by this? Calcium and protein can be provided in other ways, and having your son trust you is pretty darn important, too. Have you finished chelation, or have some other reason to suspect that he can now digest gluten and casein properly? Wow, I have seen with my own eyes the addictive power of gluten and casein. Occasionally I have a kid who recognizes himself that cheese makes him feel bad, but more often, if there is cheese in the house, he will snitch pieces secretly. You have a son who chooses to not eat cheese, and you think it is just because he is rigid? Maybe he truly feels better without it. Lorilyn [ ] Re: GFCF and yeast? > When > we put my son on a gfcf diet due to extreme aggression at age 12 > after receiving the MMR booster vaccine, it calmed him down > completely. It was a Godsend for that purpose. > > <snip> I don't want to push him into going off the diet as he is > very against doing so. He questions anything that looks suspicious > or different. He is 18 and very strong, so I don't want to lose his > trust by sneaking in the " real " cheese, etc. I want his cooperation > on this. He is taking probiotics, GSE, Lauricidin and Ojibwa tea for > the yeast. I really would like to brainwash him into easing off the > diet. Any ideas? Rose > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 > > > While many people do benefit from the GFCF diet, I would like to > > follow up on whether it makes people more susceptible to yeast > > problems. > > > > Our experience: My son had yeast BEFORE going GFCF. Once he was on the GFCF diet we were able to bring the yeast under control. We used anti-fungals throughout much of his chelation and we never had a yeast problem. (This wasn't logically planned, but just the way it worked out as we were trying different interventions.) In our experience the GFCF diet does NOT increase yeast problems. My thoughts: If not eating gluten and casein increased yeast problems, we would hear about yeast problems in the far East (China, Japan, etc.) where the standard diet is GFCF. On the contrary, that part of the world is often used as an example of good GI health. From an evolutionary biology point of view, gluten and especially casein have been late comers to the human diet. Thinking they are essiential elements for balanced GI flora makes no sense. It seems more likely that yeast problems are caused by faulty immune systems (as has been repeatedly suggested on this list) and inflamed by to much sugar and starch in the diet. I have often wondered if the symptoms which occur with the addition of ALA are incorrectly attributed to yeast. Couldn't they be due to mercury mobilization? Or perhaps the increased mercury mobilization depresses the immune system in some way which allows the yeast to thrive? (I've wondered if that's why mercury " rashes " appear.) If I was faced with " yeast symptoms " when chelating I would either reduce the chelation dose, shorten the frequency, or add anti-fungals. (or all of the three) I certainly wouldn't go off the GFCF diet! It is a proven and safe intervention for many children. (Yes, not all.) Ben Price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 I think you completely misunderstood me. I have NEVER sneaked anything that is not gfcf into his diet. I also did not say that I wanted to sneak cheese into his diet; on the contrary, I said I did NOT WANT to sneak cheese into his diet. What kind of a mother do you think I am, who according to you, wants to sneak anything into son's diet? I am not that kind of person. My son has my full trust. I am so sorry you read my message with a tone. I suggest, when you calm down, to go back and reread it. I'm also so sorry that it seems that you get upset so easily. Maybe you can take a course in reading. I certainly have taken my share. Rose > Let me get this right...your 18 year old son wants to stay gfcf, and you > want to sneak cheese into his diet? What on earth do you hope to gain by > this? Calcium and protein can be provided in other ways, and having your > son trust you is pretty darn important, too. Have you finished chelation, > or have some other reason to suspect that he can now digest gluten and > casein properly? > > Wow, I have seen with my own eyes the addictive power of gluten and casein. > Occasionally I have a kid who recognizes himself that cheese makes him feel > bad, but more often, if there is cheese in the house, he will snitch pieces > secretly. You have a son who chooses to not eat cheese, and you think it is > just because he is rigid? Maybe he truly feels better without it. > Lorilyn > > [ ] Re: GFCF and yeast? > > > > When > > we put my son on a gfcf diet due to extreme aggression at age 12 > > after receiving the MMR booster vaccine, it calmed him down > > completely. It was a Godsend for that purpose. > > > > <snip> I don't want to push him into going off the diet as he is > > very against doing so. He questions anything that looks suspicious > > or different. He is 18 and very strong, so I don't want to lose his > > trust by sneaking in the " real " cheese, etc. I want his cooperation > > on this. He is taking probiotics, GSE, Lauricidin and Ojibwa tea for > > the yeast. I really would like to brainwash him into easing off the > > diet. Any ideas? Rose > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Boy! Watch out! Here comes Rose again ) > I think you completely misunderstood me. I have NEVER sneaked > anything that is not gfcf into his diet. I also did not say that I > wanted to sneak cheese into his diet; on the contrary, I said I did > NOT WANT to sneak cheese into his diet. What kind of a mother do you > think I am, who according to you, wants to sneak anything into son's > diet? I am not that kind of person. My son has my full trust. I > am so sorry you read my message with a tone. I suggest, when you > calm down, to go back and reread it. I'm also so sorry that it seems > that you get upset so easily. Maybe you can take a course in > reading. I certainly have taken my share. Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Same here, Ben. Pregfcf, my kid, like so many others, ate a diet limited to certain foods, all either containing gluten, casein or sugar (often all three). His diet is far more varied and healthy now (and so is he). GFCF doesn't require piling on more starches, just changing the starches that are used. And junk food is junk food, whether gfcf or not. > Our experience: > My son had yeast BEFORE going GFCF. Once he was on the GFCF diet we > were able to bring the yeast under control. We used anti-fungals > throughout much of his chelation and we never had a yeast problem. > (This wasn't logically planned, but just the way it worked out as we > were trying different interventions.) > > In our experience the GFCF diet does NOT increase yeast problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 I'm sorry I overreacted in tone. I still don't see why you want him to eat gluten and casein, though. Lorilyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Rose, I think I understand what your talking about, our kids can get stuck on certain things, you don't want him to be afraid to try new things. They can sooo easily get stuck in their " safe world " which limits their experiences and can lead to other issues like this, in other areas of his life. Try to appeal to his sense of logic, he seems very bright, just a little worried . let him pick a semi-safe food to try for a start, a little bit at a time. Slow and easy. Let him do the grocery shopping, and tell him he has to pick at least one new thing to try..I hope this helps... your mom only wants the best for you trust her! GB Barbara Van [ ] Re: GFCF and yeast? > > > > When > > we put my son on a gfcf diet due to extreme aggression at age 12 > > after receiving the MMR booster vaccine, it calmed him down > > completely. It was a Godsend for that purpose. > > > > <snip> I don't want to push him into going off the diet as he is > > very against doing so. He questions anything that looks suspicious > > or different. He is 18 and very strong, so I don't want to lose his > > trust by sneaking in the " real " cheese, etc. I want his cooperation > > on this. He is taking probiotics, GSE, Lauricidin and Ojibwa tea for > > the yeast. I really would like to brainwash him into easing off the > > diet. Any ideas? Rose > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 >>I just think that the same doctors who require gfcf recommend > >prescription medications for yeast. I'm sure that this is true, too. My son had major undiagnosed yeast issues beginning in infancy and problems with gluten and casein, too. Who treats yeast? Who chelates metals? Who prescribes the diet? Generally, the same doctors. But if I recall correctly, Alan Friedman reported at the Cherry Hill DAN! several years ago, that he had found a sulphur-gobbling organism in autistic kids. So chelating might very well feed the bad bugs. Especially if the metals are exiting right through ground zero of our kids. I always said that I was looking for the engine that was pulling the whole autism train. I firmly believe that metals are it. But that doesn't mean that there aren't other cars on the train, that need attention, too. Lorilyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/03 1:28:01 PM Central Standard Time, christianity20@... writes: > I really would like to brainwash him into easing off the diet. Any ideas? > Rose What specifically in his diet is feeding yeast? Is it possible to try easing him off of that rather than off the whole diet? If he's insistent on staying on the diet, perhaps he's found that he feels much better on it. Gaylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 For those of new on this list, could you please explain or avoid abbreviations such as GFCG and SCD; perhaps we could have a glossary page listing abbreviations for us. Thanks very much, Hans-Jurgen Schwartz, DDS [ ] Re: GFCF and yeast? > > > > >>> All the people I know how chelated didn't have all these yeast > > > explosions. None of them were GFCF. > > > > > > All the doctors who have terrible trouble with every kid having a > > > yeast explosion every time require their patients to be on the > > GFCF diet. > > > > Yesssssss!!! Here is some information that is consistent with that > > observation. According to SCD researchers who have been following > > that diet for 40 years including many, many looks through > > microscopes at intestinal tissue....the GFCF diet encourages yeast > > and bacteria growth like no other. Well may the all-sugar-all-day- > > all-the-time diet would actually be faster in this. The feeling is > > that a GFCF diet encourages lots of potatoes, rice, pasta, sugar, > > fruits if tolerated, even soy etc. which are easily digested carbs > > and sugars. If a person has insufficient enzyme production of their > > own or an injured gut for whatever reason, the enzymes that digest > > certain proteins (including casein), lactase (milk sugar), and > > disaccarhides (sugars and staches) are not there functioning well. > > These enzymes are produced by the intestinal lining. When there is a > > damages lining, you have ineffective enzyme production. > > > > This was found to be the case by several researchers including > > Horvath. So you are putting the person on a diet of foods they can't > > digest, but the bacteria and yeast can digest these very nicely. > > > > One of the 'experts' of the SCD that wrote the main book on it says > > that grains can be harmful because the starch component of it. So if > > a person goes GFCF, they may see short improvement because those > > refined starches are taken out, but soon the person regresses or > > becomes worse because all the substituted foods are very starchy as > > well. > > > > Also, the GFCF is chocked full of xanthum gum, guar gum, careegenan > > gum (sp), and other things to get the food to stick together. Humans > > can barely digest these but the microbes can. Same with sucralose, > > pectin, and other things allowed on GFCF. So it is a diet that > > actually promotes dysbiosis. There is a rapidly growing number of > > people with children with autism conditions doing SCD after leaving > > GFCF and their kids are responding rapidly. This is backed up too by > > the fact that many people doing GFCF struggle endlessly with bad > > bacteria and yeast. > > > > Consider the enzymes track record. Many people who use Houston > > enzymes do much better off the GFCF diet that when on the diet. Some > > of these still struggled with yeast until No-Fenol came along. Now a > > number of people see great success with No-Fenol, Candex or > > Candidase. However, I can't recall yeast/bacteria becoming a problem > > if the person was not GFCF before. > > > > I will try to get some more information on this and please, everyone > > chip in with your experiences. It may be that is you need to chelate > > you would be far better off making sure you are not GFCF to prevent > > the endless bacteria/yeast overgrowths. > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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