Re: Son is too skinny, help!!

[Guest guest]

My slender child is also gfcf. Here's what I do to keep meat on the bones:

--Lots of nut butters; we rotate cashew, peanut and almond.

--Make my own chicken/turkey/beef stock; reserve extra fat for his bowl of

soup.

--Add ghee or oil to hot cereal.

--Sausage and eggs for breakfast.

--Fattiest/darkest cuts of meat. Extra serving of poultry skin.

--Rice milk with the highest fat content.

--Guacamole at every opportunity.

--Gravy, gravy, gravy.

Lynne

> My 8 year old used to be perfect in weight and looked even

> muscular. Since Chelation and GF/CF diet he is soooooo skinny it

> looks a little scary. My husband even said " Take him off the diet " !

> I'm starting to give him enzymes. He just looks too too skinny. His

> muscle tone is gone. And people are noticing how bony he is. Advice

> please!! (completed 19th round ALA every 3 hours 3 on 11 off)

[Guest guest]

I would suggest a trial reintroduction of dairy.

It sounds like he is protein deficient more than calorie deficient.

Maybe he isn't getting the suite of amino acids he needs. The enzymes

may help that.

Also go check his height and weight on one of the percentile graphs to

see where he is. If he is below the 3rd percentile consider it an

emergency to get weight on him and let the other stuff (GFCF,

chelation) go on hold for a while.

Andy . .. . . . . . . . ..

> My 8 year old used to be perfect in weight and looked even

> muscular. Since Chelation and GF/CF diet he is soooooo skinny it

> looks a little scary. My husband even said " Take him off the diet " !

> I'm starting to give him enzymes. He just looks too too skinny.

His

> muscle tone is gone. And people are noticing how bony he is. Advice

> please!! (completed 19th round ALA every 3 hours 3 on 11 off)

>

> Thanks.

>

> K

[Guest guest]

This sounds like us last year about this time. Is you son having

regular bowel movements? Does the " amount in " generally correlate

with the " amount out " ? Is he eating okay, or are you having to

cajol him?

The GFCF diet made my son very constipated (looking back I think he

got dangerously close to an impaction). While I think there are many

good points to recommend the GFCF diet, I think it tends to be

high-sugar and low-fiber for a lot of kids. I don't mean to imply

here that you are cooking " wrong " , just that even when you cook

balanced meals, it doesn't mean that kids will eat that way. Some

kids get way too into the GFCF breads, cakes, and pasta.

We stopped GFCF after being very serious for 6 months. Some might

tell me that was not long enough, but I could not see huge benefits

from it for all the effort it takes. We are basically casein reduced,

gluten reduced now with enzymes (Houston) and doing fine. My son,

always a tall, large child has gained back weight and then some after

being practically skeletal at Christmas 2001.

Good luck,

Lissy

-- In , " katecis2000

<robcorcis.ca@n...> " <robcorcis.ca@n...> wrote:

> My 8 year old used to be perfect in weight and looked even

> muscular. Since Chelation and GF/CF diet he is soooooo skinny it

> looks a little scary. My husband even said " Take him off the diet " !

> I'm starting to give him enzymes. He just looks too too skinny.

His

> muscle tone is gone. And people are noticing how bony he is. Advice

> please!! (completed 19th round ALA every 3 hours 3 on 11 off)

>

> Thanks.

>

> Kate C.

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>people are noticing how bony he is. Advice

please<<<<<<<<

What does he eat on the diet? What is he getting as far as protein goes? You

may need to decide to take him off the diet. Post what he eats, so we have an

idea of a daily intake for him. My kids have been on the diet for over 3 years.

My autistic son is my best eater. However, he loves protein, so he eats a lot

of chicken and pork.

a

[Guest guest]

> My 8 year old used to be perfect in weight and looked even

> muscular. Since Chelation and GF/CF diet he is soooooo skinny it

> looks a little scary. My husband even said " Take him off the diet " !

> I'm starting to give him enzymes.

If you are using HNI enzymes, you can begin challenging gluten/casein,

because they can be used instead of diet for many children [altho not

all]. If you are using Kirkman Enzyme Complete, that one has been

used instead of diet for some children, but it apparently is not as

effective as HNI for being non-gfcf.

But this might help you increase your child's weight.

Also, if you are giving certain supplements, they can contribute to

weight loss. Are you giving SNT, CLO, or other supplements? Consider

removing them.

Dana

[Guest guest]

At the worst of my mercury toxicity (when I had it diagnosed) I weighed 82 lbs

(5'6 " adult). With enzymes and 2 avocados per day I got back to 100 lbs in a

couple months. I've hovered at 110 (my natural weight) since and have been

vegan (no animal products) and gfcf for years. (Briefly weighed a high of 119

while in South America.) I do eat lots of nuts and nutbutter. SFrom: katecis2000

[mailto: robcorcis.ca@...] @...: Sun,

05 Jan 2003 05:20:11 -0000Subject: [ ] Son is too skinny, help!!My

8 year old used to be perfect in weight and looked even muscular. Since

Chelation and GF/CF diet he is soooooo skinny it looks a little scary. My

husband even said " Take him off the diet " ! I'm starting to give him enzymes.

He just looks too too skinny. His muscle tone is gone. And people are noticing

how bony he is. Advice please!! (completed 19th round ALA every 3 hours 3 on

11 off)Thanks.Kate C.

[Guest guest]

It is highly likely that he has yeast and malabsorption!!!!!!!! This is

what yoiu would expect as a side effect of using DMSA and/or ALA. That

would be a problem to solve. Are you using colostrom, probiotics and

possibly doing a few rounds of Diflucan??? Please investigate this problem.

This diet, as long as balanced , should not be the real problem. Plenty of

proteins, carbs, veggies and fruits to eat!

Re:[ ] Son is too skinny, help!!

> >>>>>>people are noticing how bony he is. Advice

> please<<<<<<<<

>

> What does he eat on the diet? What is he getting as far as protein goes?

You may need to decide to take him off the diet. Post what he eats, so we

have an idea of a daily intake for him. My kids have been on the diet for

over 3 years. My autistic son is my best eater. However, he loves protein,

so he eats a lot of chicken and pork.

>

> a

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

I want to say, also, that after 19 long rounds of chelation (anywhere from 4

days to a week) with ALA only every 3 hours, and 11 or more days off each time,

my 18 year old son is also skinny with a poor muscle tone. He used to weigh

approximately 175 pounds before we started this. Right now, he does not appear

to be losing any more weight and his appetite is picking up again. We are also

trying to increase the fats and high calorie foods.

I think his appetite is picking up more because he now sleeps at night, due to

the Ojibwa Tea he has been taking, and is awake in the daytime to eat more.

After restarting the Ojibwa Tea again, and he has been on it again for about 3

or 4 months, he is getting complaint again and if I tell him to go to sleep,

he does so without ignoring me. The amazing thing is that he not only obeys me

and goes to bed, but when I check on him, he is actually asleep.

I think the glutamine I am giving him again is helping with his muscle tone. I

had stopped the glutamine when all the posts came out about ammonia and

glutamine contributing to it. But, with my son, he needs glutamine. He is so

much the better with it. Rose

Re: [ ] Son is too skinny, help!!

My slender child is also gfcf. Here's what I do to keep meat on the bones:

--Lots of nut butters; we rotate cashew, peanut and almond.

--Make my own chicken/turkey/beef stock; reserve extra fat for his bowl of

soup.

--Add ghee or oil to hot cereal.

--Sausage and eggs for breakfast.

--Fattiest/darkest cuts of meat. Extra serving of poultry skin.

--Rice milk with the highest fat content.

--Guacamole at every opportunity.

--Gravy, gravy, gravy.

Lynne

> My 8 year old used to be perfect in weight and looked even

> muscular. Since Chelation and GF/CF diet he is soooooo skinny it

> looks a little scary. My husband even said " Take him off the diet " !

> I'm starting to give him enzymes. He just looks too too skinny. His

> muscle tone is gone. And people are noticing how bony he is. Advice

> please!! (completed 19th round ALA every 3 hours 3 on 11 off)

[Guest guest]

Kate,

If your son is eating adequate calories, then I don't think you can

attribute the problem to the g/f c/f diet for it does not restrict

anything, really, that you can't get from other foods. Depending upon what

originally went wrong with your son's sulfur chemistry (in areas other than

exposure to mercury), there may be ways chelation might worsen the sulfur

situation, and a problem there might produce weight loss, or a failure to

gain weight properly in someone who is growing, or it might produce failed

growth.

Unfortunately, there is just about no direct laboratory-based clinical

research going on to adequately pin down those issues, especially how they

are affected by chelation. I know I'm still learning (with a perspective

of what we don't yet know similar to what Dr. McCandless expressed

recently). After seven or eight years of full-time study in this area

(including going to graduate school), I am daily more impressed that the

sulfur system is a very complicated, coordinated and tightly regulated

system that overlaps every aspect of cell biology,. It is the sulfur

system specifically that is endangered by exposure to mercury, but many

other biological problems in that system can produce similar symptoms.

The medical field is about in kindergarten related to what should be a

proper understanding of sulfur's role in the biology of human life and in

disease.. This situation is not the medical field's fault because no one in

basic science research has attempted to make this material " digestible " and

accessible to graduate students or to medical students. It is very hard to

learn this area independently because it is so complex and spread over so

many different fields. But, if you hear from anyone that this is a simple

system with a short list of what can go wrong, that comment alone is

adequate proof that they have not yet taken the time to read the literature.

Anyway, there are likely to be many differences that exist in this

chemistry among the population of people who develop autism. Just think

about the range of very positive and very negative responses that parents

have noted in response to various sulfur-related compounds (and various

dosages) taken as supplements or for chelation...(DMSA, DMPS, ALA, MSM,

NAC, DMSO, glutathione, thiamine, taurine, biotin, epsom salts,

etc.). Haven't you noticed that what is WONDERFUL with one child ends up a

disaster in another? That is likely to happen because underneath it all,

their sulfur-related issues are DIFFERENT.

One of the first markers of profound sulfur DEFICIENCY (only one of the

things that can go wrong with the sulfur system) is weight loss that

continues despite adequate diet. This has been noted extensively both in

animal studies and in studies of human disease, both from genetic and

environmental causes. Included is the dramatic weight loss that is seen in

mercury toxicity when the dose of mercury has been serious enough to

eventually lead to death. Interestingly, the weight loss, in that case,

often proceeds neurological problems. I'm not suggesting that this acute

sort of exposure has happened to your son...for I'm sure you would have

known it if he had gotten that degree of exposure to mercury.

But, anyway, Kate, because of my own interest in the field of sulfur

biology, I've studied at length the literature on the condition called

cachexia. Cachexia is a pathological weight loss seen in many

diseases. The pathological part is that the weight loss continues despite

adequate calories, and despite adequate representation in the diet of

protein, fat and carbohydrate. This cachexic condition is seen in burn

patients, sepsis, AIDS, certain forms of cancer, in some cases of Rett

Syndrome, and in Alzheimers disease. Cachexia's features in all of these

diseases is very much alike. All of these diseases share one common

feature: something appears to have gone wrong with the sulfur chemistry and

its regulation.

All this came home to me while watching what happened to my father who had

Alzheimers and had lost almost a hundred pounds while eating A LOT of

calories. (Eating a lot had been his pastime and habit his whole life and

that didn't change when he began to show signs of dementia.)

Eventually, his condition became serious enough for him to need constant

care. By that time, my daughter, my sister and I had already experienced

remarkable resolution of some medical or developmental issues using two

things at the same time: both the g/f c/f diet and topical epsom salts.

(My sister didn't do the epsom salts.)

At the time, it was impossible to avoid noticing the many parallels between

my father's behaviors and disabilities and those you see in autism. The

parallels led my family to wonder if the diet and epsom salts therapy would

produce similar benefits to my father as it was reported to be doing in

children with autism. So, about seven years ago, we put him on the g/f c/f

diet and had his aides apply epsom salts solution daily to his skin. To

our delight and utter amazement, he regained his personality. He became

happy and communicative again as long as we kept up the program. (Over four

years and very many different employees who blew it from time to time, we

also got to see what happened if either of those therapies were

dropped...we're talking disaster.)

Anyway, what was quantifiable, remarkable, and completely unexpected, is

that after a four year steady and dramatic weight loss, he stopped losing

weight, and actually gained some. So I want you to mention that fact to

your husband who is justifiably concerned about your son's weight...for the

diet seemed to be part of SOLVING, not creating, the weight loss problem in

my dad!

The only time my father lost weight after that was when he was moved into

the nursing home. The dietician was so unready to support the diet that he

was fed only the parts of the menu that were g/f c/f. That wasn't much, so

he ended up on something like a 500 calorie diet, so of course in that

first month, he lost weight until we figured out what the dietician was

doing wrong and we finally got her some proper g/f c/f foods to give to

him. His minor weight loss quickly resolved.

So, Kate, what I want to encourage you to notice is if your son is losing

weight on a normal amount of calories. If he is, you probably need to

explore whether he may be getting sulfur deficient.

At the time we instituted this change with my father, I didn't know if the

improvement represented something unique to him, and I couldn't help but

wonder if this effect would generalize to others with cachexia. The

changes were so remarkable that I gave some blow by blow tales of his

changing status on autism lists and eventually I heard from another autism

listmate whose father also had Alzheimers. She saw the parallels I had

seen in these two conditions (autism and Alzheimers), so it was pretty

natural for her to think about trying what I did. Her father at that time

was already in the nursing home and he was drastically underweight and

wheelchair-bound. His daughter had the nursing home put him on the g/f c/f

diet and the epsom salts therapy, and like my father, his weight loss

stopped. He actually gained back fifteen pounds from 110 to 125, obviously

some very needed weight (for he had started off much thinner than my father

before his weight loss, and therefore his degree of underweight was far

more severe). His daughter wrote me and the autism list I was on at the time:

>Before the diet and salts he had been extemely

> > paranoid and delusional about people coming into his room at the

> > nursing home at gunpoint and stealing all his money - which he has

> > none of there anyway . All this type of behavior has ceased.

> >

> > He is now very conversational, and he is able to recall recent

> > happenings and conversations held days earlier, and the newest is

> > that he is also able to walk around the facility without the use of

> > his wheelchair ! Yikes !

Kate, there is a good chance that your son would benefit from some medical

attention to verify what exactly is happening with his sulfur

regulation. Have you been working with a doctor while he's been on the

chelation? Feel free to write me offlist if you'd like.

Have any other listmates doing chelation with ALA by itself noticed a

problem with weight loss or failure to gain weight?

At 05:20 AM 1/5/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>My 8 year old used to be perfect in weight and looked even

>muscular. Since Chelation and GF/CF diet he is soooooo skinny it

>looks a little scary. My husband even said " Take him off the diet " !

>I'm starting to give him enzymes. He just looks too too skinny. His

>muscle tone is gone. And people are noticing how bony he is. Advice

>please!! (completed 19th round ALA every 3 hours 3 on 11 off)

>

>Thanks.

>

>Kate C.

[Guest guest]

Ive heard zinc helps regulate appetite???????? FYI Sharon

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2003 5:24:02 PM Central Standard Time, lwo@...

writes:

> Have any other listmates doing chelation with ALA by itself noticed a

> problem with weight loss or failure to gain weight?

My son did 7 rounds ALA only, very low dose. He's always been tall and lean,

but now is pretty skinny, enough that his weight elicits comments from my

friends, when it never has before. Also, I have noticed that he seems more

intolerant of phenolic foods than before. He was on biotin when getting ALA,

and is still on it. Pantothenic acid, except in such tiny doses that I'm not

sure it matters, makes him hyperactive. We do nightly epsom salt baths.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

> Have any other listmates doing chelation with ALA by itself noticed a

> problem with weight loss or failure to gain weight?

Hi ,

My son was always skinny. Very tall (he has now the height of a 7 yo,

and he is only 4 yo) and very skinny. When we started chelation (with

ALA) he actually gained some weight. But at that time we also did a lot

of epsom salt baths.

In the meantime he grew a lot. I can't say he lost weight, but because

he is growing so fast, he looks skinnier than a year ago.

Not sure how relevant this is, but I plan on starting him again on epsom

salt baths. I'll let you know what's happening.

Valentina