Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 No reply first go around, any advice? Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga class for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy studies . (and has his own yoga teaching insurance) what do I need to think about liability wise? Pay him regular hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other concerns? Split profits? At what percent? Would like to offer Mass therapy In the same structure, when I figure out what that is.. I'm sure some of you are offering this. Thank you Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS Orthopedic Specialists PA mniles@... x3 fax This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by return e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Mark Niles Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:45 PM To: PTManager Subject: after hours Yoga class Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga class for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy studies . what do I need to think about liability wise? Pay him regular hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other concerns? Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS Orthopedic Specialists PA mniles@... <mailto:mniles%40orthospecpa.net> x3 fax This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by return e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments BusinessQuestion Next year I will most likely be embarking on a joint venture with another local therapist and possible affiliations with MD. I'm trying to get an early start on the structure of the business arrangement, compensation, ownership, type of venture etc. and I would greatly enjoy speaking with someone who has " been there done that " . Any response via PTManager or personal email would be appreciated. Thank you very much and Merry Christmas everyone. Vandeventer,MPT Theraplay LLC jasonmpt@... <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Mark I offered Yoga in my practice for several years. I am a huge proponent of Yoga. I think it can be a great program. Here are some of the issues I faced that ultimately led to cancellation of the program. First, there are many types of Yoga and it's hard to develop a one size fits all program. Second, Yoga is highly misunderstood and I had a constant struggle overcoming the " religious " objections from patients. Third, Yoga instructors can be " odd " at times and don't typically view responsibilities to patients the same way clinicians do. Lastly, patiens seeking PT expect insurance to cover treatments. I always struggled to get patients to pay for Yoga out of their own pockets. If you can manage these issues, I say go for it. Rob Jordan, PT, MPT, OCS Sent from my iPhone On Jan 8, 2010, at 12:32 PM, " Mark Niles " wrote: > No reply first go around, any advice? > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > class > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > studies . (and has his own yoga teaching insurance) what do I need > to think > about liability wise? Pay him regular > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > concerns? Split profits? At what percent? Would like to offer Mass > therapy > > In the same structure, when I figure out what that is.. I'm sure > some of you > are offering this. > > Thank you > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > Orthopedic Specialists PA > mniles@... > x3 > fax > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > return > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] > On Behalf > Of Mark Niles > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:45 PM > To: PTManager > Subject: after hours Yoga class > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > class > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > studies . what do I need to think about liability wise? Pay him > regular > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > concerns? > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > Orthopedic Specialists PA > mniles@... <mailto:mniles%40orthospecpa.net> > x3 > fax > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > return > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > BusinessQuestion > > Next year I will most likely be embarking on a joint venture with > another > local therapist and possible affiliations with MD. I'm trying to get > an > early start on the structure of the business arrangement, > compensation, > ownership, type of venture etc. and I would greatly enjoy speaking > with > someone who has " been there done that " . Any response via PTManager or > personal email would be appreciated. Thank you very much and Merry > Christmas > everyone. > > Vandeventer,MPT > Theraplay LLC > > jasonmpt@... <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Mark I offered Yoga in my practice for several years. I am a huge proponent of Yoga. I think it can be a great program. Here are some of the issues I faced that ultimately led to cancellation of the program. First, there are many types of Yoga and it's hard to develop a one size fits all program. Second, Yoga is highly misunderstood and I had a constant struggle overcoming the " religious " objections from patients. Third, Yoga instructors can be " odd " at times and don't typically view responsibilities to patients the same way clinicians do. Lastly, patiens seeking PT expect insurance to cover treatments. I always struggled to get patients to pay for Yoga out of their own pockets. If you can manage these issues, I say go for it. Rob Jordan, PT, MPT, OCS Sent from my iPhone On Jan 8, 2010, at 12:32 PM, " Mark Niles " wrote: > No reply first go around, any advice? > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > class > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > studies . (and has his own yoga teaching insurance) what do I need > to think > about liability wise? Pay him regular > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > concerns? Split profits? At what percent? Would like to offer Mass > therapy > > In the same structure, when I figure out what that is.. I'm sure > some of you > are offering this. > > Thank you > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > Orthopedic Specialists PA > mniles@... > x3 > fax > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > return > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] > On Behalf > Of Mark Niles > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:45 PM > To: PTManager > Subject: after hours Yoga class > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > class > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > studies . what do I need to think about liability wise? Pay him > regular > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > concerns? > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > Orthopedic Specialists PA > mniles@... <mailto:mniles%40orthospecpa.net> > x3 > fax > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > return > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > BusinessQuestion > > Next year I will most likely be embarking on a joint venture with > another > local therapist and possible affiliations with MD. I'm trying to get > an > early start on the structure of the business arrangement, > compensation, > ownership, type of venture etc. and I would greatly enjoy speaking > with > someone who has " been there done that " . Any response via PTManager or > personal email would be appreciated. Thank you very much and Merry > Christmas > everyone. > > Vandeventer,MPT > Theraplay LLC > > jasonmpt@... <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Mark--I don't offer Yoga, but do have both Pilates and Massage services in my office, so have some experience with some of your issues. My Massage Therapist is also my office manager, so all of her work for me is as an employee--she has 2 different rates, based on which hat she is wearing, and I cover her malpractice ins. The Pilates instructors (2) are both contractors. They pay me a fixed 20% of their gross--interestingly, the more experienced offered me 25%, which is what she was used to pay in a club, but which I felt was too high for her start-up in my office. They have their own liability policies, (which I keep copies of)and over a year in, this has worked out very well. Yoga, like Pilates, would bring in some of your present and former patients, and would also serve to introduce your practice to new potential clients. We see a small stream of referrals from both Massage and Pilates. Likewise, you will have a known yoga provider to whom you can refer appropriate clients. Down-side--groups of people in exercise garb tromping through your gym, dragging in rock salt from the walkway, etc... Your situation is a bit different in that your instructor is already an employee. Is he full-time PT, and would state labor law require you to pay him over-time? Splitting profit puts you at risk for another business--did you pay for any of his yoga certification? Maybe he should take the risk, and you should just rent him the space. Lastly, as a wise pt/barber once explained to me, when they are your employee, you can manage them, and you can fire them. When they are contractors, they can do whatever they want to as long as the contract is in effect. Have a great weekend, and good luck! Jeff Woodruff, Woodruff PT, Chester, NH > > > No reply first go around, any advice? > > > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > > class > > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > > studies . (and has his own yoga teaching insurance) what do I need > > to think > > about liability wise? Pay him regular > > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > > concerns? Split profits? At what percent? Would like to offer Mass > > therapy > > > > In the same structure, when I figure out what that is.. I'm sure > > some of you > > are offering this. > > > > Thank you > > > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > > Orthopedic Specialists PA > > mniles@... > > x3 > > fax > > > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > > return > > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > > > From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] > > On Behalf > > Of Mark Niles > > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:45 PM > > To: PTManager > > Subject: after hours Yoga class > > > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > > class > > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > > studies . what do I need to think about liability wise? Pay him > > regular > > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > > concerns? > > > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > > Orthopedic Specialists PA > > mniles@... <mailto:mniles%40orthospecpa.net> > > x3 > > fax > > > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > > return > > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > > > BusinessQuestion > > > > Next year I will most likely be embarking on a joint venture with > > another > > local therapist and possible affiliations with MD. I'm trying to get > > an > > early start on the structure of the business arrangement, > > compensation, > > ownership, type of venture etc. and I would greatly enjoy speaking > > with > > someone who has " been there done that " . Any response via PTManager or > > personal email would be appreciated. Thank you very much and Merry > > Christmas > > everyone. > > > > Vandeventer,MPT > > Theraplay LLC > > > > jasonmpt@... <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Jeff, Thanks, for the info. Instructor is FT 35 hours so weekend class should be fine. What do you pay and how do you split massages? How would you pay a per diem mass therapist? And yes we paid for 3 of his 4 courses to be certified for yoga therapy. I'm thinking keeping it simple and just pay for his time at his regular pay. And clinic to pay for supplies needed probably Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS Orthopedic Specialists PA mniles@... x3 fax This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by return e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of coopwoodruff Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:41 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: after hours Yoga class Hi Mark--I don't offer Yoga, but do have both Pilates and Massage services in my office, so have some experience with some of your issues. My Massage Therapist is also my office manager, so all of her work for me is as an employee--she has 2 different rates, based on which hat she is wearing, and I cover her malpractice ins. The Pilates instructors (2) are both contractors. They pay me a fixed 20% of their gross--interestingly, the more experienced offered me 25%, which is what she was used to pay in a club, but which I felt was too high for her start-up in my office. They have their own liability policies, (which I keep copies of)and over a year in, this has worked out very well. Yoga, like Pilates, would bring in some of your present and former patients, and would also serve to introduce your practice to new potential clients. We see a small stream of referrals from both Massage and Pilates. Likewise, you will have a known yoga provider to whom you can refer appropriate clients. Down-side--groups of people in exercise garb tromping through your gym, dragging in rock salt from the walkway, etc... Your situation is a bit different in that your instructor is already an employee. Is he full-time PT, and would state labor law require you to pay him over-time? Splitting profit puts you at risk for another business--did you pay for any of his yoga certification? Maybe he should take the risk, and you should just rent him the space. Lastly, as a wise pt/barber once explained to me, when they are your employee, you can manage them, and you can fire them. When they are contractors, they can do whatever they want to as long as the contract is in effect. Have a great weekend, and good luck! Jeff Woodruff, Woodruff PT, Chester, NH > > > No reply first go around, any advice? > > > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > > class > > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > > studies . (and has his own yoga teaching insurance) what do I need > > to think > > about liability wise? Pay him regular > > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > > concerns? Split profits? At what percent? Would like to offer Mass > > therapy > > > > In the same structure, when I figure out what that is.. I'm sure > > some of you > > are offering this. > > > > Thank you > > > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > > Orthopedic Specialists PA > > mniles@... > > x3 > > fax > > > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > > return > > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > > > From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf > > Of Mark Niles > > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:45 PM > > To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: after hours Yoga class > > > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > > class > > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > > studies . what do I need to think about liability wise? Pay him > > regular > > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > > concerns? > > > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > > Orthopedic Specialists PA > > mniles@... <mailto:mniles%40orthospecpa.net> > > x3 > > fax > > > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > > return > > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > > > BusinessQuestion > > > > Next year I will most likely be embarking on a joint venture with > > another > > local therapist and possible affiliations with MD. I'm trying to get > > an > > early start on the structure of the business arrangement, > > compensation, > > ownership, type of venture etc. and I would greatly enjoy speaking > > with > > someone who has " been there done that " . Any response via PTManager or > > personal email would be appreciated. Thank you very much and Merry > > Christmas > > everyone. > > > > Vandeventer,MPT > > Theraplay LLC > > > > jasonmpt@... <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Jeff, Thanks, for the info. Instructor is FT 35 hours so weekend class should be fine. What do you pay and how do you split massages? How would you pay a per diem mass therapist? And yes we paid for 3 of his 4 courses to be certified for yoga therapy. I'm thinking keeping it simple and just pay for his time at his regular pay. And clinic to pay for supplies needed probably Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS Orthopedic Specialists PA mniles@... x3 fax This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by return e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of coopwoodruff Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:41 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: after hours Yoga class Hi Mark--I don't offer Yoga, but do have both Pilates and Massage services in my office, so have some experience with some of your issues. My Massage Therapist is also my office manager, so all of her work for me is as an employee--she has 2 different rates, based on which hat she is wearing, and I cover her malpractice ins. The Pilates instructors (2) are both contractors. They pay me a fixed 20% of their gross--interestingly, the more experienced offered me 25%, which is what she was used to pay in a club, but which I felt was too high for her start-up in my office. They have their own liability policies, (which I keep copies of)and over a year in, this has worked out very well. Yoga, like Pilates, would bring in some of your present and former patients, and would also serve to introduce your practice to new potential clients. We see a small stream of referrals from both Massage and Pilates. Likewise, you will have a known yoga provider to whom you can refer appropriate clients. Down-side--groups of people in exercise garb tromping through your gym, dragging in rock salt from the walkway, etc... Your situation is a bit different in that your instructor is already an employee. Is he full-time PT, and would state labor law require you to pay him over-time? Splitting profit puts you at risk for another business--did you pay for any of his yoga certification? Maybe he should take the risk, and you should just rent him the space. Lastly, as a wise pt/barber once explained to me, when they are your employee, you can manage them, and you can fire them. When they are contractors, they can do whatever they want to as long as the contract is in effect. Have a great weekend, and good luck! Jeff Woodruff, Woodruff PT, Chester, NH > > > No reply first go around, any advice? > > > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > > class > > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > > studies . (and has his own yoga teaching insurance) what do I need > > to think > > about liability wise? Pay him regular > > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > > concerns? Split profits? At what percent? Would like to offer Mass > > therapy > > > > In the same structure, when I figure out what that is.. I'm sure > > some of you > > are offering this. > > > > Thank you > > > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > > Orthopedic Specialists PA > > mniles@... > > x3 > > fax > > > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > > return > > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > > > From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf > > Of Mark Niles > > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:45 PM > > To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: after hours Yoga class > > > > Can you all help me with the thought process of holding a basic yoga > > class > > for pt's in evenings? One of my therapist has been certified for yoga > > therapy( very in depth 4 level program) by Professional yoga therapy > > studies . what do I need to think about liability wise? Pay him > > regular > > hours? Or rent space out to him and have him have liability? Any other > > concerns? > > > > Mark Niles PT, MS, CSCS > > Orthopedic Specialists PA > > mniles@... <mailto:mniles%40orthospecpa.net> > > x3 > > fax > > > > This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the > > addressee. It may contain information which is legally privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > > distribution, use, or any action or reliance on this communication is > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please > > notify the sender immediately by telephone ( x3) or by > > return > > e-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments > > > > BusinessQuestion > > > > Next year I will most likely be embarking on a joint venture with > > another > > local therapist and possible affiliations with MD. I'm trying to get > > an > > early start on the structure of the business arrangement, > > compensation, > > ownership, type of venture etc. and I would greatly enjoy speaking > > with > > someone who has " been there done that " . Any response via PTManager or > > personal email would be appreciated. Thank you very much and Merry > > Christmas > > everyone. > > > > Vandeventer,MPT > > Theraplay LLC > > > > jasonmpt@... <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:jasonmpt%40yahoo.com> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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