Re: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

[Guest guest]

Dr. 's research summary....now there is some scholarship. If a

sophomore psychology student turned such a paper in, they would be kicked

out of class or sent to remediation. It should be read so that all can see

the charade. There is not a single valid study that shows that CISM is

effective for anything. In this " Reasearch Paper " Dr. fills 70+

pages with nonsense about how all the studies by mainstream researhers are

wrong. The problem is, he grossly misinterprets the studies. Either he

doesn't understand the research or is purposely trying to confuse those not

familiar with the science. There are numerous self-cites, numerous

references to studies that are not peer review, misrepresentation of

findings (i.e., Amir), study methodology misidentified (says studies are

RCTs when they don't have a control group), excludes numerous negative

studies, calls other programs such as Massachusett's Asaulted Staf Action

Program CISM, misinterprets data, and so on. Dr. has a PhD in Human

Development. He knows the proper venue is to prepare your science, submit it

for publication in a peer-review journal (not one you own) and allow your

colleagues to view and critique your work. That is what McNally, ,

, myself and the others did. That is what should do. I have

debated twice in public venues. Never has he presented any

science--just tried to discredit the negative studies. CISM is ineffective

and possibly iatrogenic. To use it in this day and age is malpractice and

the suits are starting to happen. " Caveat emptor "

_____

From: E. Ott

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:43 AM

To: EMS_Research

Subject: RE: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

That isn't exactly an unbiased paper, written by . He's made a 20+

year career out of hawking this non-sense to anyone that will listen, ever

since he developed the concept. The one time I heard him speak years ago, I

wasn't so sure I wasn't about to start buying some Amway materials : )

E. Ott

Cary, NC

weo@...

_____

From: eholt@...

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 08:32

To: EMS_Research

Cc: 'EMS-L List Server'; EMS_Research ;

Paramedicine ;

Subject: Re: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

Dr. Bledsoe,

Thank you for sharing another article concerning CISM, yet to be fair to the

process, and to present and encourage a comprehensive debate upon the

efficacy of CISM, one might want to share both sides of the argument. To

date I believe that we have been remiss in presenting another opinion,

before we throw the baby out with the bath water, let's look at the other

facts.

<http://www.icisf.org/articles/cism_research_summary.pdf>

http://www.icisf.org/articles/cism_research_summary.pdf

eholt@...

There are no facts, just interpretations.

Nietzsche

" Bledsoe "

05/05/2004 05:59 PM

Please respond to EMS_Research

To: < >,

<Paramedicine >, " 'EMS-L List Server' "

, <EMS_Research >

cc:

Subject: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

<http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p040471.html>

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p040471.html

Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

" Faith is believing what you know ain't so. "

Mark Twain

Following the Equator

Don't miss EMStock 2004! <http://www.emstock.com/> http://www.emstock.com

[Guest guest]

There is an alternate solution called Psychological First Aid. That is what

the NIMH recommends. That is what we are placing in our books. There is

another model out of Georgia that takes all of the iatrogenic stuff out of

CISM and calls it Resilliancy Approach. Both are evidence-based. Humans are

amazingly resiliant and stress helps us to adapt and evolve. Studies have

shown EMS and firefighters are amazingly resilient to stress. Those that

decompensate usually have other underlying issues. EAPs should offer mental

health care to those that are symptomatic and not treat the whole

population. That is the future. On scene: simple psychological first aid,

afterward screen for those decompensating, and finally referral to competent

mental health personnel for the only thing that seems to be effective;

cognitive behavioral therapy.

But, sitting in a group and having a dispatcher or the supply clerk lead you

in a round of Kum-ba-ya and having you vent your emotions when you don't

feel like it, is not good. Heck, my S.W.E.A.T therapy is as effective.

He-Man Bledsoe

Just in case, here it is:

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya

Oh lord, kumbaya

Someone's singing lord, kumbaya

Someone's singing lord, kumbaya

Someone's singing lord, kumbaya

Oh lord, kumbayah

Someone's laughing, lord, kumbaya

Someone's laughing, lord, kumbaya

Someone's laughing, lord, kumbaya

Oh lord, kumbaya

Someone's crying, lord, kumbaya

Someone's crying, lord, kumbaya

Someone's crying, lord, kumbaya

Oh lord, kumbaya

Someone's praying, lord, kumbaya

Someone's praying, lord, kumbaya

Someone's praying, lord, kumbaya

Oh lord, kumbaya

Someone's sleeping, lord, kumbaya

Someone's sleeping, lord, kumbaya

Someone's sleeping, lord, kumbaya

Oh lord, kumbaya

Oh lord, kumbaya

_____

From: eholt@...

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 1:34 PM

To: EMS_Research

Subject: RE: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

In order to quell the email lynching by the " Bledsonian He-man,

hating club " let me try to explain my position.

I am not a cheerleader, nor do I disagree that there is a need for

evidence-based research. I have serious concerns about the way training is

structured, the way teams are developed and the expertise of the team

members. I have attended training presented by professional licensed mental

health educators and research oriented professor types which was valuable,

and a program by a motivational speaker that, quite frankly scared the hell

out of me. Grief counseling has a low priority in many arenas, organizing

services are ill funded or ignored, hence there is a mishmash of services

provided, some great, some not.

But my objection centers around a movement to eliminate grief counseling

efforts, because a handful of researchers have deemed it so. Yes,

proponents have lagged far behind in presenting research that shows efficacy

of grief counseling, I have no argument. I applaud those who are willing to

swim against the tide and point out weaknesses or dangers. But the second

part of the swim is quite more complicated, and that is developing a program

that works, and not trashing the theory based on the current mismanagement

and disorganization. In all of the criticism, rarely do you hear of a

suggestion on how to improve services.

So, in conclusion, I believe that all, including Dr. Bledsoe, has a concern

and a wish for good mental health for our brothers and sisters in EMS, let's

accomplish that together. If it means starting all over again, fine.

Sitting around the pickle barrel may be fun, but it does not solve the

problem.

eholt@...

There are no facts, just interpretations.

Nietzsche

" D.E. Donn "

05/06/2004 01:41 PM

Please respond to EMS_Research

To: EMS_Research

cc:

Subject: RE: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

Interesting that you consider Dr. Bledsoe's commentry biased but

apparently have no suspicion of bias in regard to Dr. , even

though has a financial interest in perpetuating the CISM myth.

Regards,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" They pose as having discovered and attained their real opinions

through the self-evaluation of a cold, pure, divinely unperturbed

dialect while what happens at bottom is that a prejudice, a notion, an

inspiration, generally a desire of the heart sifted and made abstract

is defended by them with reasons sought after the event. "

~~Nietzsche~~

>

> Fair enough, I submit that our challenge then is to engage in a

> retrospective analysis of the process and structure in which this

service

> is offered. I also believe that CISM is interpreted, regionalized

and

> many times mismanaged to its detriment. If in fact it is proven to

be

> ineffective or even " iatrogenic " , then we should slam on the brakes.

> Obvious personal feelings are presented, the comments below are

certainly

> biased, and if you believe that any research paper is also not

biased,

> including Dr. Bledsoe's, then you are operating in a world different

that

> the rest of us.

>

> eholt@...

>

> There are no facts, just interpretations.

> Nietzsche

>

>

>

>

>

>

> " Bledsoe "

> 05/06/2004 09:17 AM

> Please respond to EMS_Research

>

> To: <EMS_Research >

> cc: " 'EMS-L List Server' " ,

> < >, <Paramedicine >

> Subject: RE: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

>

>

> Dr. 's research summary....now there is some scholarship. If

a

> sophomore psychology student turned such a paper in, they would be

kicked

> out of class or sent to remediation. It should be read so that all

can see

> the charade. There is not a single valid study that shows that CISM

is

> effective for anything. In this " Reasearch Paper " Dr. fills

70+

> pages with nonsense about how all the studies by mainstream

researhers are

> wrong. The problem is, he grossly misinterprets the studies. Either

he

> doesn't understand the research or is purposely trying to confuse

those

> not familiar with the science. There are numerous self-cites,

numerous

> references to studies that are not peer review, misrepresentation of

> findings (i.e., Amir), study methodology misidentified (says studies

are

> RCTs when they don't have a control group), excludes numerous

negative

> studies, calls other programs such as Massachusett's Asaulted Staf

Action

> Program CISM, misinterprets data, and so on. Dr. has a PhD

in

> Human Development. He knows the proper venue is to prepare your

science,

> submit it for publication in a peer-review journal (not one you own)

and

> allow your colleagues to view and critique your work. That is what

> McNally, , , myself and the others did. That is what

> should do. I have debated twice in public venues. Never has

he

> presented any science--just tried to discredit the negative studies.

CISM

> is ineffective and possibly iatrogenic. To use it in this day and age

is

> malpractice and the suits are starting to happen. " Caveat emptor "

>

>

> From: E. Ott

> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:43 AM

> To: EMS_Research

> Subject: RE: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

>

> That isn't exactly an unbiased paper, written by . He's made

a

> 20+ year career out of hawking this non-sense to anyone that will

listen,

> ever since he developed the concept. The one time I heard him speak

years

> ago, I wasn't so sure I wasn't about to start buying some Amway

materials

> : )

>

> E. Ott

> Cary, NC

> weo@...

>

> From: eholt@...

> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 08:32

> To: EMS_Research

> Cc: 'EMS-L List Server'; EMS_Research ;

> Paramedicine ;

> Subject: Re: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

>

>

> Dr. Bledsoe,

>

> Thank you for sharing another article concerning CISM, yet to be fair

to

> the process, and to present and encourage a comprehensive debate upon

the

> efficacy of CISM, one might want to share both sides of the

argument. To

> date I believe that we have been remiss in presenting another

opinion,

> before we throw the baby out with the bath water, let's look at the

other

> facts.

>

> http://www.icisf.org/articles/cism_research_summary.pdf

>

>

>

> eholt@...

>

> There are no facts, just interpretations.

> Nietzsche

>

>

>

>

>

> " Bledsoe "

> 05/05/2004 05:59 PM

> Please respond to EMS_Research

>

> To: < >,

> <Paramedicine >, " 'EMS-L List Server' "

> , <EMS_Research >

> cc:

> Subject: [EMS_Research] More heap on the CISM pile

>

>

>

>

> http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p040471.html

> Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

> " Faith is believing what you know ain't so. "

> Mark Twain

> Following the Equator

> Don't miss EMStock 2004!http://www.emstock.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, now the rest of the story.....that bunch out of Georgis was one

of the first groups to go to NYC after Sept. 11, and start doing

mass debriefings. I mean they had clinicians lined up for days.

Heck, they even rented and entire floor of one building, so they

could conduct multiple debriefings, one right after another. They

literally, made millions!!!!!! They were doing this before the

participants even knew if their co-workers were alive or dead or if

they would even continue having a job. And yo want to blame this on

CISM, horseradish, GIVE ME A BREAK!

So you're saying these good folks have RCTs on the Resiliancy stuff.

Will you please quote the studies?

CISM is psychological first aid! DUH! Dr. Bledsoe knows this he just

wants to call it another name. I don't care what name you call it

just help the folks who need help.

If you want to talk about morons misusing the process, then I'll go

to the bank with you on that, but to say CISM is harmful isn't true

if it's done appropriately.

You know, like antibiotics, some people ae allergic to antibiotics

and can get sick or die if thay take antibiotics, so by ,

let's take antibiotics off the market. They have a bad effect on

some people. Get rid of them. This whole argument is ridiculous.