Re: Pain med for circumsision

[Guest guest]

How on earth would any caring doctor or nurse say that they only feel as

much pain from the shot as they feel from getting their foreskin sliced off!

These idiots are insane! No one in their right mind would ever dream of

undergoing any type of surgery without pain medicine......if it didn't hurt

why do they put older people under? Another very interesting point on this

topic is MONEY, hospitals & doctor offices make a lot of money from cutting

off baby boys foreskin.....

Mothering Magazine is a leader on this topic & does a great job getting

information out to parents.

They also have a web site.

Pain med for circumsision

From: nvanreg@... (naomi van regenmorter)

Sherry,

Thanks for your opinion. I have a 4 mo. old girl but agonized over the

decision before she came. I am curious if your boys were anesthitized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day?

The birthing center where I had my baby said they don't give any pain

medicine- not even topical- before the procedure. They said they feel

just as much pain from the shot as the procedure.

I don't like that way of thinking. Would you like somebody cutting you

without it being numb? Our babies do feel pain!

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[Guest guest]

I'm sure you're serious regarding the heart surgery, I've never heard of

that. What year was that done in?

I'm amazed....and saddened.

Love to you,

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

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[Guest guest]

I'm sure you're serious regarding the heart surgery, I've never heard of

that. What year was that done in?

I'm amazed....and saddened.

Love to you,

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

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[Guest guest]

I'm sure you're serious regarding the heart surgery, I've never heard of

that. What year was that done in?

I'm amazed....and saddened.

Love to you,

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

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[Guest guest]

,

It is completely untrue that any baby could feel as much pain from a shot as a

surgical procedure. They have done studies in the NICU where I worked and

actually started instituting a pain med protocol for all surgical procedures

because of the pain stress response the they go through and without pain meds

healing is delayed. The nervous system becomes overwhelmed by the pain, the

body then spends so much time trying to deal with the pain it is unable to heal

at a proper rate. This is not in relation to circumcision. I am addressing

pain relief in general in newborn babies.

Wendi

Pain med for circumsision

From: nvanreg@... (naomi van regenmorter)

Sherry,

Thanks for your opinion. I have a 4 mo. old girl but agonized over the

decision before she came. I am curious if your boys were anesthitized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day?

The birthing center where I had my baby said they don't give any pain

medicine- not even topical- before the procedure. They said they feel

just as much pain from the shot as the procedure.

I don't like that way of thinking. Would you like somebody cutting you

without it being numb? Our babies do feel pain!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

,

The hospital I worked at started using pain med in heart surgery after the study

which I think took place in 1990 and this is Children's Hospital SF.

Wendi

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

,

The hospital I worked at started using pain med in heart surgery after the study

which I think took place in 1990 and this is Children's Hospital SF.

Wendi

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

,

The hospital I worked at started using pain med in heart surgery after the study

which I think took place in 1990 and this is Children's Hospital SF.

Wendi

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Wow! I guess I just never ever knew anyone that had a child that had

surgery, I never had a clue!

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Wow! I guess I just never ever knew anyone that had a child that had

surgery, I never had a clue!

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are proud as punch of our new web site!

http://www.onelist.com

Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breastfeeding is Best!!

http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

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[Guest guest]

Wow! I guess I just never ever knew anyone that had a child that had

surgery, I never had a clue!

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>They don't just slice the foreskin off. There are a couple of techniques,

>one being making a slice in the top of the foreskin and slipping a probe

>down between the sheath and the head of the penis and use that to losening

>the membrane from the head. Then putting a cup over the head and using

that

>as a pattern to remove the foreskin. Another technique is to crush the

>foreskin first and then procede. Everything happens very quickly but

>certainly is not painfree.

>

>Remember that when all this was at its peak in America..now it is about 50%

>not circ...or even less...but at one time it was close to 100%...At that

>time it was the official oppinions of the AMA that babies under the age of

>between 12-18 months do not feel any pain, only dislike for

restraint...that

>is why my son was given open-heart surgery without any anesthetic

>whatsoever.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you visited our new web site?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are proud as punch of our new web site!

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

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http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

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[Guest guest]

Wendi,

I'm sure!

Pain is for a reason, it's to tell us to not leave our hand in the fire,

boiling water, etc....

Sometimes I wish that I didn't know a lot of this stuff. It breaks my

heart....

Pain med for circumsision

From: nvanreg@... (naomi van regenmorter)

Sherry,

Thanks for your opinion. I have a 4 mo. old girl but agonized over the

decision before she came. I am curious if your boys were anesthitized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day?

The birthing center where I had my baby said they don't give any pain

medicine- not even topical- before the procedure. They said they feel

just as much pain from the shot as the procedure.

I don't like that way of thinking. Would you like somebody cutting you

without it being numb? Our babies do feel pain!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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http://www.onelist.com

Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breastfeeding is Best!!

http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Wendi,

I'm sure!

Pain is for a reason, it's to tell us to not leave our hand in the fire,

boiling water, etc....

Sometimes I wish that I didn't know a lot of this stuff. It breaks my

heart....

Pain med for circumsision

From: nvanreg@... (naomi van regenmorter)

Sherry,

Thanks for your opinion. I have a 4 mo. old girl but agonized over the

decision before she came. I am curious if your boys were anesthitized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day?

The birthing center where I had my baby said they don't give any pain

medicine- not even topical- before the procedure. They said they feel

just as much pain from the shot as the procedure.

I don't like that way of thinking. Would you like somebody cutting you

without it being numb? Our babies do feel pain!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you visited our new web site?

http://www.onelist.com

Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breastfeeding is Best!!

http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Wendi,

I'm sure!

Pain is for a reason, it's to tell us to not leave our hand in the fire,

boiling water, etc....

Sometimes I wish that I didn't know a lot of this stuff. It breaks my

heart....

Pain med for circumsision

From: nvanreg@... (naomi van regenmorter)

Sherry,

Thanks for your opinion. I have a 4 mo. old girl but agonized over the

decision before she came. I am curious if your boys were anesthitized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day?

The birthing center where I had my baby said they don't give any pain

medicine- not even topical- before the procedure. They said they feel

just as much pain from the shot as the procedure.

I don't like that way of thinking. Would you like somebody cutting you

without it being numb? Our babies do feel pain!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you visited our new web site?

http://www.onelist.com

Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breastfeeding is Best!!

http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Bless your Heart!

Love to you,

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>I am not sure...I was pregnant with at the time. He was born in

Feb.

>1988 and I seem to remember that everything hit about November 1987 but

>could have been early 1988. It was a nightmare for me. My Marshall was at

>Children's Hospital in San Diego in 1979.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

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[Guest guest]

Bless your Heart!

Love to you,

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>I am not sure...I was pregnant with at the time. He was born in

Feb.

>1988 and I seem to remember that everything hit about November 1987 but

>could have been early 1988. It was a nightmare for me. My Marshall was at

>Children's Hospital in San Diego in 1979.

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend.

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

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[Guest guest]

Words can't explain how I feel for you....I have never lost a child/baby. I

am deeply sorry.

Love,

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>,

> Yes, I am quite serious and it was the major cause of my son's death.

>Marshal was born in 1979 and died 8 1/2 weeks later. He was on a drug

>called Pavolon when they did the surgery. It was an elective surgery to

>correct the possible opening of his Ductus Arteriosis which had happened

>twice since his birth. That ductus is normally open in the womb and closes

>at birth. With premature children it sometimes slips open. His did twice

>and then seemed to be stable. The doctors wanted to do the surgery to

>prevent it from opening again and we were very young, not knowing that when

>they told us he would be on Pavalon, which we KNEW was a muscle paralyser,

>we never suspected that we had to require, insist upon pain reliever at the

>same time. It was contrary to the policy of the AMA, the APA and

>the..oh..don't know the call letters..but the Anethesiologists to give

>medication for infants having this surgery. Marshall underwent surgery

that

>opened his chest from the center of his rib cage all the way around to the

>spine. The heart ductus is then tied off and the chest cavity closed up.

>No pain killers because 'infants under the age of 12-18 months do not feel

>pain, they only exhibit frustration over being restrained " so...the muscle

>relaxant.

>

>In 1987/88 the news broke over this country concerning this barbaric

>attitude. A woman with an infant Marshall's age and problem seriously

>questions her son's death. She had independent research done. It was

>discovered that her son was given pavalon with no anesthetic as was the

>customary practice. His rate and process of organ failure and death

>following surgery was identical to what my son experienced. She went to

the

>medical associations trying to get them to change their attitude. It

didn't

>work. She went to congress trying to get them to intervene but they

>wouldn't. She finally went to the press. Within the blink of an eye the

>AMA and APA (American Pediatric Association) reversed their oppinion and

>declared that babies now do indeed feel pain and it is their recommendation

>that babies be given pain killers when undergoing surgery...however, it was

>left up to the attending anestheologist if that would be done or not so

>parents needed to chose their anest. who would be willing to administer

>anesthetic to infants. It was in the news, in various newsmagazines, in

many

>articles. The first time I heard it I barely made it into the kitchen and

>into my husband's arms before my knees gave out and I nearly fainted. I

had

>never fainted before except in early pregnancy but this seriously put me

>into shock. As this mother said...I cried the same response...I NEVER

>suspected that he wouldn't be given pain relief...I had given permission

for

>my little one to experience this! It was all I could do to get past it

>almost 10 years later.

>

>The entire story of Marshall's experience can be found on my web page at:

>http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/5540/Marshall01.html

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Words can't explain how I feel for you....I have never lost a child/baby. I

am deeply sorry.

Love,

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>,

> Yes, I am quite serious and it was the major cause of my son's death.

>Marshal was born in 1979 and died 8 1/2 weeks later. He was on a drug

>called Pavolon when they did the surgery. It was an elective surgery to

>correct the possible opening of his Ductus Arteriosis which had happened

>twice since his birth. That ductus is normally open in the womb and closes

>at birth. With premature children it sometimes slips open. His did twice

>and then seemed to be stable. The doctors wanted to do the surgery to

>prevent it from opening again and we were very young, not knowing that when

>they told us he would be on Pavalon, which we KNEW was a muscle paralyser,

>we never suspected that we had to require, insist upon pain reliever at the

>same time. It was contrary to the policy of the AMA, the APA and

>the..oh..don't know the call letters..but the Anethesiologists to give

>medication for infants having this surgery. Marshall underwent surgery

that

>opened his chest from the center of his rib cage all the way around to the

>spine. The heart ductus is then tied off and the chest cavity closed up.

>No pain killers because 'infants under the age of 12-18 months do not feel

>pain, they only exhibit frustration over being restrained " so...the muscle

>relaxant.

>

>In 1987/88 the news broke over this country concerning this barbaric

>attitude. A woman with an infant Marshall's age and problem seriously

>questions her son's death. She had independent research done. It was

>discovered that her son was given pavalon with no anesthetic as was the

>customary practice. His rate and process of organ failure and death

>following surgery was identical to what my son experienced. She went to

the

>medical associations trying to get them to change their attitude. It

didn't

>work. She went to congress trying to get them to intervene but they

>wouldn't. She finally went to the press. Within the blink of an eye the

>AMA and APA (American Pediatric Association) reversed their oppinion and

>declared that babies now do indeed feel pain and it is their recommendation

>that babies be given pain killers when undergoing surgery...however, it was

>left up to the attending anestheologist if that would be done or not so

>parents needed to chose their anest. who would be willing to administer

>anesthetic to infants. It was in the news, in various newsmagazines, in

many

>articles. The first time I heard it I barely made it into the kitchen and

>into my husband's arms before my knees gave out and I nearly fainted. I

had

>never fainted before except in early pregnancy but this seriously put me

>into shock. As this mother said...I cried the same response...I NEVER

>suspected that he wouldn't be given pain relief...I had given permission

for

>my little one to experience this! It was all I could do to get past it

>almost 10 years later.

>

>The entire story of Marshall's experience can be found on my web page at:

>http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/5540/Marshall01.html

>

>Cherie

>

>

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>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

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[Guest guest]

Words can't explain how I feel for you....I have never lost a child/baby. I

am deeply sorry.

Love,

Pain med for circumsision

>

>

>,

> Yes, I am quite serious and it was the major cause of my son's death.

>Marshal was born in 1979 and died 8 1/2 weeks later. He was on a drug

>called Pavolon when they did the surgery. It was an elective surgery to

>correct the possible opening of his Ductus Arteriosis which had happened

>twice since his birth. That ductus is normally open in the womb and closes

>at birth. With premature children it sometimes slips open. His did twice

>and then seemed to be stable. The doctors wanted to do the surgery to

>prevent it from opening again and we were very young, not knowing that when

>they told us he would be on Pavalon, which we KNEW was a muscle paralyser,

>we never suspected that we had to require, insist upon pain reliever at the

>same time. It was contrary to the policy of the AMA, the APA and

>the..oh..don't know the call letters..but the Anethesiologists to give

>medication for infants having this surgery. Marshall underwent surgery

that

>opened his chest from the center of his rib cage all the way around to the

>spine. The heart ductus is then tied off and the chest cavity closed up.

>No pain killers because 'infants under the age of 12-18 months do not feel

>pain, they only exhibit frustration over being restrained " so...the muscle

>relaxant.

>

>In 1987/88 the news broke over this country concerning this barbaric

>attitude. A woman with an infant Marshall's age and problem seriously

>questions her son's death. She had independent research done. It was

>discovered that her son was given pavalon with no anesthetic as was the

>customary practice. His rate and process of organ failure and death

>following surgery was identical to what my son experienced. She went to

the

>medical associations trying to get them to change their attitude. It

didn't

>work. She went to congress trying to get them to intervene but they

>wouldn't. She finally went to the press. Within the blink of an eye the

>AMA and APA (American Pediatric Association) reversed their oppinion and

>declared that babies now do indeed feel pain and it is their recommendation

>that babies be given pain killers when undergoing surgery...however, it was

>left up to the attending anestheologist if that would be done or not so

>parents needed to chose their anest. who would be willing to administer

>anesthetic to infants. It was in the news, in various newsmagazines, in

many

>articles. The first time I heard it I barely made it into the kitchen and

>into my husband's arms before my knees gave out and I nearly fainted. I

had

>never fainted before except in early pregnancy but this seriously put me

>into shock. As this mother said...I cried the same response...I NEVER

>suspected that he wouldn't be given pain relief...I had given permission

for

>my little one to experience this! It was all I could do to get past it

>almost 10 years later.

>

>The entire story of Marshall's experience can be found on my web page at:

>http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/5540/Marshall01.html

>

>Cherie

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Breastfeeding is Best!!

>http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

>If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

[Guest guest]

Cherie,

I am so sorry for that experience. I dealt with many mothers in your same

position but by the time I was in the NICU we were using pain meds. The study I

spoke of was mainly done on PDA surgery patients. When I read this my stomach

started hurting. I cannot bear thinking about losing a child, I feel for you.

Wendi

Pain med for circumsision

,

Yes, I am quite serious and it was the major cause of my son's death.

Marshal was born in 1979 and died 8 1/2 weeks later. He was on a drug

called Pavolon when they did the surgery. It was an elective surgery to

correct the possible opening of his Ductus Arteriosis which had happened

twice since his birth. That ductus is normally open in the womb and closes

at birth. With premature children it sometimes slips open. His did twice

and then seemed to be stable. The doctors wanted to do the surgery to

prevent it from opening again and we were very young, not knowing that when

they told us he would be on Pavalon, which we KNEW was a muscle paralyser,

we never suspected that we had to require, insist upon pain reliever at the

same time. It was contrary to the policy of the AMA, the APA and

the..oh..don't know the call letters..but the Anethesiologists to give

medication for infants having this surgery. Marshall underwent surgery that

opened his chest from the center of his rib cage all the way around to the

spine. The heart ductus is then tied off and the chest cavity closed up.

No pain killers because 'infants under the age of 12-18 months do not feel

pain, they only exhibit frustration over being restrained " so...the muscle

relaxant.

In 1987/88 the news broke over this country concerning this barbaric

attitude. A woman with an infant Marshall's age and problem seriously

questions her son's death. She had independent research done. It was

discovered that her son was given pavalon with no anesthetic as was the

customary practice. His rate and process of organ failure and death

following surgery was identical to what my son experienced. She went to the

medical associations trying to get them to change their attitude. It didn't

work. She went to congress trying to get them to intervene but they

wouldn't. She finally went to the press. Within the blink of an eye the

AMA and APA (American Pediatric Association) reversed their oppinion and

declared that babies now do indeed feel pain and it is their recommendation

that babies be given pain killers when undergoing surgery...however, it was

left up to the attending anestheologist if that would be done or not so

parents needed to chose their anest. who would be willing to administer

anesthetic to infants. It was in the news, in various newsmagazines, in many

articles. The first time I heard it I barely made it into the kitchen and

into my husband's arms before my knees gave out and I nearly fainted. I had

never fainted before except in early pregnancy but this seriously put me

into shock. As this mother said...I cried the same response...I NEVER

suspected that he wouldn't be given pain relief...I had given permission for

my little one to experience this! It was all I could do to get past it

almost 10 years later.

The entire story of Marshall's experience can be found on my web page at:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/5540/Marshall01.html

Cherie

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life?

http://www.onelist.com

Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breastfeeding is Best!!

http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

[Guest guest]

Me too.

Wendi

Pain med for circumsision

From: nvanreg@... (naomi van regenmorter)

Sherry,

Thanks for your opinion. I have a 4 mo. old girl but agonized over the

decision before she came. I am curious if your boys were anesthitized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day?

The birthing center where I had my baby said they don't give any pain

medicine- not even topical- before the procedure. They said they feel

just as much pain from the shot as the procedure.

I don't like that way of thinking. Would you like somebody cutting you

without it being numb? Our babies do feel pain!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you visited our new web site?

http://www.onelist.com

Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breastfeeding is Best!!

http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Me too.

Wendi

Pain med for circumsision

From: nvanreg@... (naomi van regenmorter)

Sherry,

Thanks for your opinion. I have a 4 mo. old girl but agonized over the

decision before she came. I am curious if your boys were anesthitized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day?

The birthing center where I had my baby said they don't give any pain

medicine- not even topical- before the procedure. They said they feel

just as much pain from the shot as the procedure.

I don't like that way of thinking. Would you like somebody cutting you

without it being numb? Our babies do feel pain!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you visited our new web site?

http://www.onelist.com

Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breastfeeding is Best!!

http://www.mariaann.com/breastfeeding.htm

If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/99 5:30:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, nvanreg@...

writes:

<< I am curious if your boys were anaesthetized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day? >>

Since the whole circ thing was a huge decision for me, I told my DH (he was

the one pushing it) that our son HAD to have anetheshia. There is only one Dr

at the hospital that uses it. (A woman by the way.) She happened to be on that

day, lucky I guess. I insisted on talking to her before hand, to find out

exactly how she does it. There are different ways. It did ease my mind to talk

to her & to make sure our son had anesthesia.

Cristina Mom to Amber 7/11/94 & Austin 10/31/97

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/99 5:30:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, nvanreg@...

writes:

<< I am curious if your boys were anaesthetized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day? >>

Since the whole circ thing was a huge decision for me, I told my DH (he was

the one pushing it) that our son HAD to have anetheshia. There is only one Dr

at the hospital that uses it. (A woman by the way.) She happened to be on that

day, lucky I guess. I insisted on talking to her before hand, to find out

exactly how she does it. There are different ways. It did ease my mind to talk

to her & to make sure our son had anesthesia.

Cristina Mom to Amber 7/11/94 & Austin 10/31/97

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/99 5:30:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, nvanreg@...

writes:

<< I am curious if your boys were anaesthetized

and how old they were. Did they do it the next day? >>

Since the whole circ thing was a huge decision for me, I told my DH (he was

the one pushing it) that our son HAD to have anetheshia. There is only one Dr

at the hospital that uses it. (A woman by the way.) She happened to be on that

day, lucky I guess. I insisted on talking to her before hand, to find out

exactly how she does it. There are different ways. It did ease my mind to talk

to her & to make sure our son had anesthesia.

Cristina Mom to Amber 7/11/94 & Austin 10/31/97