Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 The recruiters we have been approached by want the employer to pay the cost so the 'staff PT' doesn't have any money out of pocket. Matt Capo, PT Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi Re: New Grad Salaries Yes, that's full time employee. I would have a hard time paying for a full time employee however, for vacation relief it's ok. Our other office has a PT who is getting paid that amount, however, much more reponsibilities besides being a good treating PT. Unfortunately, recruiters are always snatching away good PTs to go work for POPT clinics. It's just a dog's world when comes to POPT as the same physicians also try to steal my patients who just go for an evaluation. On that note, why do PTs want to work with recruiters? Do PTs know that the recruiter charge from 15% to 20% of the PT's salary. If a PT wants a job, all he/she has to do is open up the yellow pages and call some of the PT offices to see if they are hiring. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Matt: That is my point. 20% of a staff salary for the year can be a hefty sum which as an employer, I would not want to pay a recruiter but pay more to the staff PT. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Matt: That is my point. 20% of a staff salary for the year can be a hefty sum which as an employer, I would not want to pay a recruiter but pay more to the staff PT. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I agree. I do not really understand why the need for PT recruiters is out there, especially for new grads. unless you have to more to a completly different area adn do not know anyone...I cannot see the purpose. I also do not want to pay the money, I make the PT sign a contract, and cannot offer them any bonus for one year because of the fees. Unfortunately, it is the only way I can make any use of the recruiters if i have to use them....but even then, the PT bonus is not 15-20% of the salary. Ruchin, PT, DPT Atlanta Rehabilitation and Performance Center, Inc. bruchin@... www.atlantarehab.com <http://www.atlantarehab.com/> Re: New Grad Salaries Matt: That is my point. 20% of a staff salary for the year can be a hefty sum which as an employer, I would not want to pay a recruiter but pay more to the staff PT. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I agree. I do not really understand why the need for PT recruiters is out there, especially for new grads. unless you have to more to a completly different area adn do not know anyone...I cannot see the purpose. I also do not want to pay the money, I make the PT sign a contract, and cannot offer them any bonus for one year because of the fees. Unfortunately, it is the only way I can make any use of the recruiters if i have to use them....but even then, the PT bonus is not 15-20% of the salary. Ruchin, PT, DPT Atlanta Rehabilitation and Performance Center, Inc. bruchin@... www.atlantarehab.com <http://www.atlantarehab.com/> Re: New Grad Salaries Matt: That is my point. 20% of a staff salary for the year can be a hefty sum which as an employer, I would not want to pay a recruiter but pay more to the staff PT. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 We don't use recruiters either for therapy staff. Our field (UE therapy) is so highly specialized that after advertising nationally with our state association and keeping in good contact with our UE community, I can usually find a couple experienced therapists as applicants to chose from, or a new grad VERY interested in advancing themselves in UE orthopedic therapy. We dont offer bonuses; just a competitive salary, good benefits, including good continuing education benefits, and an environment that hopefully facilitates growth professionally. (that sounded like a commercial, didnt it?) Acker OTR CHT Therapy Manager Georgia Hand Shoulder and Elbow Surgery Gahand.org This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply email to accounts@... and delete or destroy all copies of the original message and attachments thereto. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Ruchin Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:46 PM To: PTManager Subject: RE: New Grad Salaries I agree. I do not really understand why the need for PT recruiters is out there, especially for new grads. unless you have to more to a completly different area adn do not know anyone...I cannot see the purpose. I also do not want to pay the money, I make the PT sign a contract, and cannot offer them any bonus for one year because of the fees. Unfortunately, it is the only way I can make any use of the recruiters if i have to use them....but even then, the PT bonus is not 15-20% of the salary. Ruchin, PT, DPT Atlanta Rehabilitation and Performance Center, Inc. bruchin@... <mailto:bruchin%40atlantarehab.com> www.atlantarehab.com <http://www.atlantarehab.com/ <http://www.atlantarehab.com/> > Re: New Grad Salaries Matt: That is my point. 20% of a staff salary for the year can be a hefty sum which as an employer, I would not want to pay a recruiter but pay more to the staff PT. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 We don't use recruiters either for therapy staff. Our field (UE therapy) is so highly specialized that after advertising nationally with our state association and keeping in good contact with our UE community, I can usually find a couple experienced therapists as applicants to chose from, or a new grad VERY interested in advancing themselves in UE orthopedic therapy. We dont offer bonuses; just a competitive salary, good benefits, including good continuing education benefits, and an environment that hopefully facilitates growth professionally. (that sounded like a commercial, didnt it?) Acker OTR CHT Therapy Manager Georgia Hand Shoulder and Elbow Surgery Gahand.org This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply email to accounts@... and delete or destroy all copies of the original message and attachments thereto. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Ruchin Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:46 PM To: PTManager Subject: RE: New Grad Salaries I agree. I do not really understand why the need for PT recruiters is out there, especially for new grads. unless you have to more to a completly different area adn do not know anyone...I cannot see the purpose. I also do not want to pay the money, I make the PT sign a contract, and cannot offer them any bonus for one year because of the fees. Unfortunately, it is the only way I can make any use of the recruiters if i have to use them....but even then, the PT bonus is not 15-20% of the salary. Ruchin, PT, DPT Atlanta Rehabilitation and Performance Center, Inc. bruchin@... <mailto:bruchin%40atlantarehab.com> www.atlantarehab.com <http://www.atlantarehab.com/ <http://www.atlantarehab.com/> > Re: New Grad Salaries Matt: That is my point. 20% of a staff salary for the year can be a hefty sum which as an employer, I would not want to pay a recruiter but pay more to the staff PT. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I totally agree. My point was merely that some PT's (potential hires) will use recruiters because it is not coming out of their pocket but the pocket of the potential employer. Matt Capo, PT Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi Re: New Grad Salaries Matt: That is my point. 20% of a staff salary for the year can be a hefty sum which as an employer, I would not want to pay a recruiter but pay more to the staff PT. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I totally agree. My point was merely that some PT's (potential hires) will use recruiters because it is not coming out of their pocket but the pocket of the potential employer. Matt Capo, PT Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi Re: New Grad Salaries Matt: That is my point. 20% of a staff salary for the year can be a hefty sum which as an employer, I would not want to pay a recruiter but pay more to the staff PT. Hiten Dave' PT New Grad Salaries Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's currently? Joe Ruzich, PT Pueblo, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Sorry for the late reply but have been busy with Christmas, short weeks, etc. Okay...here we go. Terry Stegman-- You make a couple of assumptions that have to be addressed. 1) I understand how cost of living differentiates by area. I grew up in the Pittsburgh area and have lived in Iowa, San Diego, Chicago, NYC, Mobile-AL and been in Mississippi for 15 years. One of the reasons I stayed down South was because of the lower costs. So, yes, I understand the cost of living. (You will shortly see that I learned quite a bit more about 'cost of living index' while researching this response). Iagree with you that San Francisco is much more expensive then Bay St.Louis, Mississippi and is probably more expensive then Dallas. However, I found it interesting that there is no accepted method offinding the amount. You state that " the cost of living in SanFrancisco, CA is 59.6% higher than in Dallas, TX. A PT would have toearn a base salary of $111,698 to maintain a standard of living basesalary of $70,000 comparable to Dallas " . Well.....I don't agree withyour assertion because it depends where you look and whom you ask. Lets say you made $70,000 in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi; to livecomparatively in San Francisco you would need $126,834 according toCNNMoney.com; $159,875 according to bestplaces.net; $122,958according to bankrate.com; $104,056 according to salary.com So, I took the four top choices (according to google) and got a rangeof $55,819 between answers. This would be a cost of living percentagedifference ranging from 128% to 49%. Incidentally, that would meanthat one of the numbers indicates that Bay St. Louis, Mississippi ismore expensive then Dallas. I really doubt that. Hmmm, maybe the Government has an answer? NOPE. According to Steve , an economist with the U.S. Bureau of Labor andStatistics (BLS) that the Consumer Price Index (CPI) " is the closestthing we've got to the cost of living index " . (Quoting an article bya Cowan on payscale.com). Going to the BLS website, theyaddress that the CPI is not a cost-of-living index and that " the CPIcannot be used to measure differences in price levels or living costsbetween one place and another; it measures only time-to-time changes ineach place. A higher index in one area does not necessarily mean thatprices are higher than in another area with a lower index. It merelymeans that prices have risen faster in the area with the higher indexsince the two areas' common reference period " . With that being said,I bet that after Hurricane Katrina the CPI for Bay St. Louis,Mississippi was higher than for San Francisco. What I have found, and this was very enlightening to me, is that eventhe government states it is too complex to derive a cost of livingindex and they don't do one. I decided to check the highest authority in the land...my wife. She isa certified compensation analyst and told me, " People ask me relativevalues between cities all the time and there is no way to compute cleanwater, health care costs, school districts, tax rates, etc. that trulymake up a 'cost of living index'. It can't be done, that's why theyuse the CPI. Now be a dear and pick up some milk on the way home " . So anybody that states 'it costs this much to live here compared to there...you can smile knowingly and answer 'bull hockey'. 2) In your missive of 12/25/09 you state that I made some assumption about reimbursement rates being the same all across the country. In my note of 12/21/09 I had merely stated that a full-time employee making $38 an hour makes roughly $80,000 a year, not including benefits, continuing ed, etc. How you extrapolated that into me thinking all areas are reimbursed the same, I do not know. So, for the record, I know better than that all areas of the country are reimbursed the same. I readily admit that I don't know how much each insurer pays each area differently, and quite frankly, I don't have the time to call BC/BS, Aetna, etc. and find out. However, it is easy to find out with Medicare. Comparing reimbursements of San Francisco with Bay St. Louis Mississippi I utilized 5 CPT codes (you can look them all up but I used 5 common ones). San Francisco is reimbursed above Bay St. Louis by the following percentages per activity: Therapeutic exercise--27%; Therapeutic activities--31%; Manual therapy--27%; Ultrasound--22% and Neuromuscular re-education by 30%. As more insurers start to 'shadow' their reimbursement with Medicare, perhaps this does give us some greater information on the private insurer differences between areas, but that is conjecture. Speaking with other private practice owners around my area the new-grad pay rate is in the low 50's, let's say about $52,000. So, the difference between San Francisco ($80,000) and here is 54%. With a reimbursement rate of 30% higher. So, either they are seeing more patients per therapist, they have lower expenses, profit margins are slimmer etc. but somewhere that has to be accounted for. It was asked " What would you expect a new-grad PT to make? " and I agree with the answer " whatever you have to pay to get a good PT (and be able to keep the PT) and still exist while maintaining your own desirable standard of living as a clinic owner " . However, that second part of the answer is very telling. For many clinicians, especially private practice, the small gains we have received in reimbursement don't keep pace with rising costs or, even worse, we see actual reimbursement cuts from insurers. So, the employer, at some point will be faced with the unenviable choice of dwindling profits or cutting back expenses, including staff. You simply can't expend more than you take in, something will have to give. Matt Capo, PT Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 per hour. > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it in the ball-park? > Hiten Dave' PT > New Grad Salaries > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > currently? > > Joe Ruzich, PT > Pueblo, CO > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Sorry for the late reply but have been busy with Christmas, short weeks, etc. Okay...here we go. Terry Stegman-- You make a couple of assumptions that have to be addressed. 1) I understand how cost of living differentiates by area. I grew up in the Pittsburgh area and have lived in Iowa, San Diego, Chicago, NYC, Mobile-AL and been in Mississippi for 15 years. One of the reasons I stayed down South was because of the lower costs. So, yes, I understand the cost of living. (You will shortly see that I learned quite a bit more about 'cost of living index' while researching this response). Iagree with you that San Francisco is much more expensive then Bay St.Louis, Mississippi and is probably more expensive then Dallas. However, I found it interesting that there is no accepted method offinding the amount. You state that " the cost of living in SanFrancisco, CA is 59.6% higher than in Dallas, TX. A PT would have toearn a base salary of $111,698 to maintain a standard of living basesalary of $70,000 comparable to Dallas " . Well.....I don't agree withyour assertion because it depends where you look and whom you ask. Lets say you made $70,000 in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi; to livecomparatively in San Francisco you would need $126,834 according toCNNMoney.com; $159,875 according to bestplaces.net; $122,958according to bankrate.com; $104,056 according to salary.com So, I took the four top choices (according to google) and got a rangeof $55,819 between answers. This would be a cost of living percentagedifference ranging from 128% to 49%. Incidentally, that would meanthat one of the numbers indicates that Bay St. Louis, Mississippi ismore expensive then Dallas. I really doubt that. Hmmm, maybe the Government has an answer? NOPE. According to Steve , an economist with the U.S. Bureau of Labor andStatistics (BLS) that the Consumer Price Index (CPI) " is the closestthing we've got to the cost of living index " . (Quoting an article bya Cowan on payscale.com). Going to the BLS website, theyaddress that the CPI is not a cost-of-living index and that " the CPIcannot be used to measure differences in price levels or living costsbetween one place and another; it measures only time-to-time changes ineach place. A higher index in one area does not necessarily mean thatprices are higher than in another area with a lower index. It merelymeans that prices have risen faster in the area with the higher indexsince the two areas' common reference period " . With that being said,I bet that after Hurricane Katrina the CPI for Bay St. Louis,Mississippi was higher than for San Francisco. What I have found, and this was very enlightening to me, is that eventhe government states it is too complex to derive a cost of livingindex and they don't do one. I decided to check the highest authority in the land...my wife. She isa certified compensation analyst and told me, " People ask me relativevalues between cities all the time and there is no way to compute cleanwater, health care costs, school districts, tax rates, etc. that trulymake up a 'cost of living index'. It can't be done, that's why theyuse the CPI. Now be a dear and pick up some milk on the way home " . So anybody that states 'it costs this much to live here compared to there...you can smile knowingly and answer 'bull hockey'. 2) In your missive of 12/25/09 you state that I made some assumption about reimbursement rates being the same all across the country. In my note of 12/21/09 I had merely stated that a full-time employee making $38 an hour makes roughly $80,000 a year, not including benefits, continuing ed, etc. How you extrapolated that into me thinking all areas are reimbursed the same, I do not know. So, for the record, I know better than that all areas of the country are reimbursed the same. I readily admit that I don't know how much each insurer pays each area differently, and quite frankly, I don't have the time to call BC/BS, Aetna, etc. and find out. However, it is easy to find out with Medicare. Comparing reimbursements of San Francisco with Bay St. Louis Mississippi I utilized 5 CPT codes (you can look them all up but I used 5 common ones). San Francisco is reimbursed above Bay St. Louis by the following percentages per activity: Therapeutic exercise--27%; Therapeutic activities--31%; Manual therapy--27%; Ultrasound--22% and Neuromuscular re-education by 30%. As more insurers start to 'shadow' their reimbursement with Medicare, perhaps this does give us some greater information on the private insurer differences between areas, but that is conjecture. Speaking with other private practice owners around my area the new-grad pay rate is in the low 50's, let's say about $52,000. So, the difference between San Francisco ($80,000) and here is 54%. With a reimbursement rate of 30% higher. So, either they are seeing more patients per therapist, they have lower expenses, profit margins are slimmer etc. but somewhere that has to be accounted for. It was asked " What would you expect a new-grad PT to make? " and I agree with the answer " whatever you have to pay to get a good PT (and be able to keep the PT) and still exist while maintaining your own desirable standard of living as a clinic owner " . However, that second part of the answer is very telling. For many clinicians, especially private practice, the small gains we have received in reimbursement don't keep pace with rising costs or, even worse, we see actual reimbursement cuts from insurers. So, the employer, at some point will be faced with the unenviable choice of dwindling profits or cutting back expenses, including staff. You simply can't expend more than you take in, something will have to give. Matt Capo, PT Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 per hour. > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it in the ball-park? > Hiten Dave' PT > New Grad Salaries > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > currently? > > Joe Ruzich, PT > Pueblo, CO > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Have enjoyed the discussion on this topic. Would like to raise an issue that is a compelling part of this and I will apologize in advance if there are any academics on this listserve. More than any other good or service in the last 20 years has been the increased cost of secondary education. ly, APTA nor anybody other than University's have driven the profession toward a 7 year degree. The impact of this is a significant detriment to the profession-financially speaking. Students need higher salaries because they have just spent a ridiculous amount of money on tuition. Regardless of how you cut it, salary increases for PT's have not gone up lockstep with the cost of education-and we all know that they really can't be due to all of the great reasons that have already been pointed out (reimbursement, cost of business, productivity, regulation). From my standpoint, the biggest fraud is secondary education right now- a bunch of supposed non profits masquerading as " victims " erstwhile increasing tuition, amount of credits needing to graduate, and lowering their faculty's productivity.The end result is that if we aren't careful, we will end up with the best and brightest opting for other careers-and for good reason. We need complete disruption in physical therapy education (actually all secondary education from my perspective). Fortunately, some leadership is evolving with at least 3-4 PT programs opting for a 1 year terminal internship where students get their tuition subsidized in one way or another (don't feel sorry for the schools, they still get their full tuition). I believe we need to convert as many over to this model as possible. There are some components of PT education that can completely be scaled (do we really need 217 PT programs doing a 217 pharmacology and radiology courses?). In the meantime, let's hope that we can get PT students on licensed at some point during their terminal year such that their experience in medicare isn't completely reduced to observation, observation, observation. Isn't it a little ironic that we want to call ourselves a doctoring profession while completely ignoring the medical model of education and instead opting for a " red hat " society model? Until we get some stability in cost of education and starting PT salaries, we will be fighting the same battle we do with over regulation-pushing an 800lb boulder up Mt. Everest. Larry Benz PT, DPT CONFIDENTIALITY: This message is " Off The Record " . A lot of fancy legal speak that none of us reads or understands is often contained here. > > > > > Sorry for the late reply but have been busy with Christmas, short weeks, > etc. Okay...here we go. > Terry Stegman-- You make a couple of assumptions that have to be addressed. > 1) I understand how cost of living differentiates by area. I grew up in the > Pittsburgh area and have lived in Iowa, San Diego, Chicago, NYC, Mobile-AL > and been in Mississippi for 15 years. One of the reasons I stayed down South > was because of the lower costs. So, yes, I understand the cost of living. > (You will shortly see that I learned quite a bit more about 'cost of living > index' while researching this response). > > Iagree with you that San Francisco is much more expensive then Bay > St.Louis, Mississippi and is probably more expensive then Dallas. However, I > found it interesting that there is no accepted method offinding the amount. > You state that " the cost of living in SanFrancisco, CA is 59.6% higher than > in Dallas, TX. A PT would have toearn a base salary of $111,698 to maintain > a standard of living basesalary of $70,000 comparable to Dallas " . Well.....I > don't agree withyour assertion because it depends where you look and whom > you ask. > Lets say you made $70,000 in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi; to > livecomparatively in San Francisco you would need $126,834 according > toCNNMoney.com; $159,875 according to bestplaces.net; $122,958according to > bankrate.com; $104,056 according to salary.com > So, I took the four top choices (according to google) and got a rangeof > $55,819 between answers. This would be a cost of living percentagedifference > ranging from 128% to 49%. Incidentally, that would meanthat one of the > numbers indicates that Bay St. Louis, Mississippi ismore expensive then > Dallas. I really doubt that. > Hmmm, maybe the Government has an answer? NOPE. > > According to Steve , an economist with the U.S. Bureau of Labor > andStatistics (BLS) that the Consumer Price Index (CPI) " is the closestthing > we've got to the cost of living index " . (Quoting an article bya Cowan > on payscale.com). Going to the BLS website, theyaddress that the CPI is > not a cost-of-living index and that " the CPIcannot be used to measure > differences in price levels or living costsbetween one place and another; it > measures only time-to-time changes ineach place. A higher index in one area > does not necessarily mean thatprices are higher than in another area with a > lower index. It merelymeans that prices have risen faster in the area with > the higher indexsince the two areas' common reference period " . With that > being said,I bet that after Hurricane Katrina the CPI for Bay St. > Louis,Mississippi was higher than for San Francisco. > What I have found, and this was very enlightening to me, is that eventhe > government states it is too complex to derive a cost of livingindex and they > don't do one. > > I decided to check the highest authority in the land...my wife. She isa > certified compensation analyst and told me, " People ask me relativevalues > between cities all the time and there is no way to compute cleanwater, > health care costs, school districts, tax rates, etc. that trulymake up a > 'cost of living index'. It can't be done, that's why theyuse the CPI. Now be > a dear and pick up some milk on the way home " . > So anybody that states 'it costs this much to live here compared to > there...you can smile knowingly and answer 'bull hockey'. > > 2) In your missive of 12/25/09 you state that I made some assumption about > reimbursement rates being the same all across the country. In my note of > 12/21/09 I had merely stated that a full-time employee making $38 an hour > makes roughly $80,000 a year, not including benefits, continuing ed, etc. > How you extrapolated that into me thinking all areas are reimbursed the > same, I do not know. So, for the record, I know better than that all areas > of the country are reimbursed the same. > > I readily admit that I don't know how much each insurer pays each area > differently, and quite frankly, I don't have the time to call BC/BS, Aetna, > etc. and find out. However, it is easy to find out with Medicare. Comparing > reimbursements of San Francisco with Bay St. Louis Mississippi I utilized 5 > CPT codes (you can look them all up but I used 5 common ones). San Francisco > is reimbursed above Bay St. Louis by the following percentages per activity: > Therapeutic exercise--27%; Therapeutic activities--31%; Manual therapy--27%; > Ultrasound--22% and Neuromuscular re-education by 30%. > As more insurers start to 'shadow' their reimbursement with Medicare, > perhaps this does give us some greater information on the private insurer > differences between areas, but that is conjecture. > > Speaking with other private practice owners around my area the new-grad pay > rate is in the low 50's, let's say about $52,000. So, the difference between > San Francisco ($80,000) and here is 54%. With a reimbursement rate of 30% > higher. So, either they are seeing more patients per therapist, they have > lower expenses, profit margins are slimmer etc. but somewhere that has to be > accounted for. > > It was asked " What would you expect a new-grad PT to make? " and I agree > with the answer " whatever you have to pay to get a good PT (and be able to > keep the PT) and still exist while maintaining your own desirable standard > of living as a clinic owner " . However, that second part of the answer is > very telling. > For many clinicians, especially private practice, the small gains we have > received in reimbursement don't keep pace with rising costs or, even worse, > we see actual reimbursement cuts from insurers. So, the employer, at some > point will be faced with the unenviable choice of dwindling profits or > cutting back expenses, including staff. You simply can't expend more than > you take in, something will have to give. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Larry, I could not agree with you more. I have spoken with many clincians in the southeast and we all feel that the medical model is more benficial than anything else. Physician assistants have a 2 year degree post graduate, and really only have 1 year of classes, then 1 year of internship. Ridiculous!! I think that the medical model is much more beneficial for PT learning. What can we do to change it? Ruchin, PT, DPT Atlanta Rehabilitation and Performance Center, Inc. bruchin@... www.atlantarehab.com <http://www.atlantarehab.com/> Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Larry, I could not agree with you more. I have spoken with many clincians in the southeast and we all feel that the medical model is more benficial than anything else. Physician assistants have a 2 year degree post graduate, and really only have 1 year of classes, then 1 year of internship. Ridiculous!! I think that the medical model is much more beneficial for PT learning. What can we do to change it? Ruchin, PT, DPT Atlanta Rehabilitation and Performance Center, Inc. bruchin@... www.atlantarehab.com <http://www.atlantarehab.com/> Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Larry, I could not agree with you more. I have spoken with many clincians in the southeast and we all feel that the medical model is more benficial than anything else. Physician assistants have a 2 year degree post graduate, and really only have 1 year of classes, then 1 year of internship. Ridiculous!! I think that the medical model is much more beneficial for PT learning. What can we do to change it? Ruchin, PT, DPT Atlanta Rehabilitation and Performance Center, Inc. bruchin@... www.atlantarehab.com <http://www.atlantarehab.com/> Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Poor Joe Ruzich, the PT that started this conversation before we hijacked it. Does anybody have any info for this guy regarding new grade salaries in the Pueblo, Colorado area? Matt Capo, PT Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Poor Joe Ruzich, the PT that started this conversation before we hijacked it. Does anybody have any info for this guy regarding new grade salaries in the Pueblo, Colorado area? Matt Capo, PT Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Poor Joe Ruzich, the PT that started this conversation before we hijacked it. Does anybody have any info for this guy regarding new grade salaries in the Pueblo, Colorado area? Matt Capo, PT Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I respond to Larry Benz who began with an apology to " academics. " Larry, don't apologize you are right on with most of what you wrote. I for one opposed the profession moving to the doctorate and debated Marilyn Moffat before the Education Section on this very topic. I argued that by extending the education we would drive up its costs and that the salaries upon graduation did not support such increased tuition costs. It was my opinion that the DPT should not be the entry level degree but rather a graduate degree and as a matter of historical record we started such a program and graduated the first and only post professional DPT - Mike Voight. However when the profession went to the DPT at entry level so did we and Mikes degree was changed to a DHSc.. You cant be the last school to get on board. Now because of complaints that DPTs are not sufficiently prepared clinically, there is a move afoot as Larry infers, to increase the time in school at clinical affiliations. The better model, the one he and I advocate is the medical model where upon graduation with the DPT it is recognized that the therapists should attend a residency and perhaps later a fellowship. These are now in place but the industry is just getting started and I have high hopes for its success. Schools can only teach so much. Keeping a student in school longer makes no sense as they cant retain what they are learning and they desperately need clinical practice to hone their skills. Raising the costs of tuition is not supportable. Appreciate that most schools were started to raise money for the medical schools and some charge from two to three times the actual education costs - this I know as my school is the only free standing proprietary school in the nation and we charge less than the average of all private schools - plus we graduate our students in a semester less than most. More time at school is not the answer. Better time at school is needed and then residencies offered by YOU the private practitioners and others is essential. We must all do our bit to educate tomorrows therapists. Stanley V. Paris PT., PhD., FAPTA President, University of St. Augustine ________________________________ From: PTManager on behalf of Larry Benz Sent: Thu 12/31/2009 11:39 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Re: New Grad Salaries Have enjoyed the discussion on this topic. Would like to raise an issue that is a compelling part of this and I will apologize in advance if there are any academics on this listserve. More than any other good or service in the last 20 years has been the increased cost of secondary education. ly, APTA nor anybody other than University's have driven the profession toward a 7 year degree. The impact of this is a significant detriment to the profession-financially speaking. Students need higher salaries because they have just spent a ridiculous amount of money on tuition. Regardless of how you cut it, salary increases for PT's have not gone up lockstep with the cost of education-and we all know that they really can't be due to all of the great reasons that have already been pointed out (reimbursement, cost of business, productivity, regulation). From my standpoint, the biggest fraud is secondary education right now- a bunch of supposed non profits masquerading as " victims " erstwhile increasing tuition, amount of credits needing to graduate, and lowering their faculty's productivity.The end result is that if we aren't careful, we will end up with the best and brightest opting for other careers-and for good reason. We need complete disruption in physical therapy education (actually all secondary education from my perspective). Fortunately, some leadership is evolving with at least 3-4 PT programs opting for a 1 year terminal internship where students get their tuition subsidized in one way or another (don't feel sorry for the schools, they still get their full tuition). I believe we need to convert as many over to this model as possible. There are some components of PT education that can completely be scaled (do we really need 217 PT programs doing a 217 pharmacology and radiology courses?). In the meantime, let's hope that we can get PT students on licensed at some point during their terminal year such that their experience in medicare isn't completely reduced to observation, observation, observation. Isn't it a little ironic that we want to call ourselves a doctoring profession while completely ignoring the medical model of education and instead opting for a " red hat " society model? Until we get some stability in cost of education and starting PT salaries, we will be fighting the same battle we do with over regulation-pushing an 800lb boulder up Mt. Everest. Larry Benz PT, DPT CONFIDENTIALITY: This message is " Off The Record " . A lot of fancy legal speak that none of us reads or understands is often contained here. On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 7:12 PM, <acceleratedptbsl@... <mailto:acceleratedptbsl%40aol.com> > wrote: > > > > > Sorry for the late reply but have been busy with Christmas, short weeks, > etc. Okay...here we go. > Terry Stegman-- You make a couple of assumptions that have to be addressed. > 1) I understand how cost of living differentiates by area. I grew up in the > Pittsburgh area and have lived in Iowa, San Diego, Chicago, NYC, Mobile-AL > and been in Mississippi for 15 years. One of the reasons I stayed down South > was because of the lower costs. So, yes, I understand the cost of living. > (You will shortly see that I learned quite a bit more about 'cost of living > index' while researching this response). > > Iagree with you that San Francisco is much more expensive then Bay > St.Louis, Mississippi and is probably more expensive then Dallas. However, I > found it interesting that there is no accepted method offinding the amount. > You state that " the cost of living in SanFrancisco, CA is 59.6% higher than > in Dallas, TX. A PT would have toearn a base salary of $111,698 to maintain > a standard of living basesalary of $70,000 comparable to Dallas " . Well.....I > don't agree withyour assertion because it depends where you look and whom > you ask. > Lets say you made $70,000 in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi; to > livecomparatively in San Francisco you would need $126,834 according > toCNNMoney.com; $159,875 according to bestplaces.net; $122,958according to > bankrate.com; $104,056 according to salary.com > So, I took the four top choices (according to google) and got a rangeof > $55,819 between answers. This would be a cost of living percentagedifference > ranging from 128% to 49%. Incidentally, that would meanthat one of the > numbers indicates that Bay St. Louis, Mississippi ismore expensive then > Dallas. I really doubt that. > Hmmm, maybe the Government has an answer? NOPE. > > According to Steve , an economist with the U.S. Bureau of Labor > andStatistics (BLS) that the Consumer Price Index (CPI) " is the closestthing > we've got to the cost of living index " . (Quoting an article bya Cowan > on payscale.com). Going to the BLS website, theyaddress that the CPI is > not a cost-of-living index and that " the CPIcannot be used to measure > differences in price levels or living costsbetween one place and another; it > measures only time-to-time changes ineach place. A higher index in one area > does not necessarily mean thatprices are higher than in another area with a > lower index. It merelymeans that prices have risen faster in the area with > the higher indexsince the two areas' common reference period " . With that > being said,I bet that after Hurricane Katrina the CPI for Bay St. > Louis,Mississippi was higher than for San Francisco. > What I have found, and this was very enlightening to me, is that eventhe > government states it is too complex to derive a cost of livingindex and they > don't do one. > > I decided to check the highest authority in the land...my wife. She isa > certified compensation analyst and told me, " People ask me relativevalues > between cities all the time and there is no way to compute cleanwater, > health care costs, school districts, tax rates, etc. that trulymake up a > 'cost of living index'. It can't be done, that's why theyuse the CPI. Now be > a dear and pick up some milk on the way home " . > So anybody that states 'it costs this much to live here compared to > there...you can smile knowingly and answer 'bull hockey'. > > 2) In your missive of 12/25/09 you state that I made some assumption about > reimbursement rates being the same all across the country. In my note of > 12/21/09 I had merely stated that a full-time employee making $38 an hour > makes roughly $80,000 a year, not including benefits, continuing ed, etc. > How you extrapolated that into me thinking all areas are reimbursed the > same, I do not know. So, for the record, I know better than that all areas > of the country are reimbursed the same. > > I readily admit that I don't know how much each insurer pays each area > differently, and quite frankly, I don't have the time to call BC/BS, Aetna, > etc. and find out. However, it is easy to find out with Medicare. Comparing > reimbursements of San Francisco with Bay St. Louis Mississippi I utilized 5 > CPT codes (you can look them all up but I used 5 common ones). San Francisco > is reimbursed above Bay St. Louis by the following percentages per activity: > Therapeutic exercise--27%; Therapeutic activities--31%; Manual therapy--27%; > Ultrasound--22% and Neuromuscular re-education by 30%. > As more insurers start to 'shadow' their reimbursement with Medicare, > perhaps this does give us some greater information on the private insurer > differences between areas, but that is conjecture. > > Speaking with other private practice owners around my area the new-grad pay > rate is in the low 50's, let's say about $52,000. So, the difference between > San Francisco ($80,000) and here is 54%. With a reimbursement rate of 30% > higher. So, either they are seeing more patients per therapist, they have > lower expenses, profit margins are slimmer etc. but somewhere that has to be > accounted for. > > It was asked " What would you expect a new-grad PT to make? " and I agree > with the answer " whatever you have to pay to get a good PT (and be able to > keep the PT) and still exist while maintaining your own desirable standard > of living as a clinic owner " . However, that second part of the answer is > very telling. > For many clinicians, especially private practice, the small gains we have > received in reimbursement don't keep pace with rising costs or, even worse, > we see actual reimbursement cuts from insurers. So, the employer, at some > point will be faced with the unenviable choice of dwindling profits or > cutting back expenses, including staff. You simply can't expend more than > you take in, something will have to give. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I respond to Larry Benz who began with an apology to " academics. " Larry, don't apologize you are right on with most of what you wrote. I for one opposed the profession moving to the doctorate and debated Marilyn Moffat before the Education Section on this very topic. I argued that by extending the education we would drive up its costs and that the salaries upon graduation did not support such increased tuition costs. It was my opinion that the DPT should not be the entry level degree but rather a graduate degree and as a matter of historical record we started such a program and graduated the first and only post professional DPT - Mike Voight. However when the profession went to the DPT at entry level so did we and Mikes degree was changed to a DHSc.. You cant be the last school to get on board. Now because of complaints that DPTs are not sufficiently prepared clinically, there is a move afoot as Larry infers, to increase the time in school at clinical affiliations. The better model, the one he and I advocate is the medical model where upon graduation with the DPT it is recognized that the therapists should attend a residency and perhaps later a fellowship. These are now in place but the industry is just getting started and I have high hopes for its success. Schools can only teach so much. Keeping a student in school longer makes no sense as they cant retain what they are learning and they desperately need clinical practice to hone their skills. Raising the costs of tuition is not supportable. Appreciate that most schools were started to raise money for the medical schools and some charge from two to three times the actual education costs - this I know as my school is the only free standing proprietary school in the nation and we charge less than the average of all private schools - plus we graduate our students in a semester less than most. More time at school is not the answer. Better time at school is needed and then residencies offered by YOU the private practitioners and others is essential. We must all do our bit to educate tomorrows therapists. Stanley V. Paris PT., PhD., FAPTA President, University of St. Augustine ________________________________ From: PTManager on behalf of Larry Benz Sent: Thu 12/31/2009 11:39 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Re: New Grad Salaries Have enjoyed the discussion on this topic. Would like to raise an issue that is a compelling part of this and I will apologize in advance if there are any academics on this listserve. More than any other good or service in the last 20 years has been the increased cost of secondary education. ly, APTA nor anybody other than University's have driven the profession toward a 7 year degree. The impact of this is a significant detriment to the profession-financially speaking. Students need higher salaries because they have just spent a ridiculous amount of money on tuition. Regardless of how you cut it, salary increases for PT's have not gone up lockstep with the cost of education-and we all know that they really can't be due to all of the great reasons that have already been pointed out (reimbursement, cost of business, productivity, regulation). From my standpoint, the biggest fraud is secondary education right now- a bunch of supposed non profits masquerading as " victims " erstwhile increasing tuition, amount of credits needing to graduate, and lowering their faculty's productivity.The end result is that if we aren't careful, we will end up with the best and brightest opting for other careers-and for good reason. We need complete disruption in physical therapy education (actually all secondary education from my perspective). Fortunately, some leadership is evolving with at least 3-4 PT programs opting for a 1 year terminal internship where students get their tuition subsidized in one way or another (don't feel sorry for the schools, they still get their full tuition). I believe we need to convert as many over to this model as possible. There are some components of PT education that can completely be scaled (do we really need 217 PT programs doing a 217 pharmacology and radiology courses?). In the meantime, let's hope that we can get PT students on licensed at some point during their terminal year such that their experience in medicare isn't completely reduced to observation, observation, observation. Isn't it a little ironic that we want to call ourselves a doctoring profession while completely ignoring the medical model of education and instead opting for a " red hat " society model? Until we get some stability in cost of education and starting PT salaries, we will be fighting the same battle we do with over regulation-pushing an 800lb boulder up Mt. Everest. Larry Benz PT, DPT CONFIDENTIALITY: This message is " Off The Record " . A lot of fancy legal speak that none of us reads or understands is often contained here. On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 7:12 PM, <acceleratedptbsl@... <mailto:acceleratedptbsl%40aol.com> > wrote: > > > > > Sorry for the late reply but have been busy with Christmas, short weeks, > etc. Okay...here we go. > Terry Stegman-- You make a couple of assumptions that have to be addressed. > 1) I understand how cost of living differentiates by area. I grew up in the > Pittsburgh area and have lived in Iowa, San Diego, Chicago, NYC, Mobile-AL > and been in Mississippi for 15 years. One of the reasons I stayed down South > was because of the lower costs. So, yes, I understand the cost of living. > (You will shortly see that I learned quite a bit more about 'cost of living > index' while researching this response). > > Iagree with you that San Francisco is much more expensive then Bay > St.Louis, Mississippi and is probably more expensive then Dallas. However, I > found it interesting that there is no accepted method offinding the amount. > You state that " the cost of living in SanFrancisco, CA is 59.6% higher than > in Dallas, TX. A PT would have toearn a base salary of $111,698 to maintain > a standard of living basesalary of $70,000 comparable to Dallas " . Well.....I > don't agree withyour assertion because it depends where you look and whom > you ask. > Lets say you made $70,000 in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi; to > livecomparatively in San Francisco you would need $126,834 according > toCNNMoney.com; $159,875 according to bestplaces.net; $122,958according to > bankrate.com; $104,056 according to salary.com > So, I took the four top choices (according to google) and got a rangeof > $55,819 between answers. This would be a cost of living percentagedifference > ranging from 128% to 49%. Incidentally, that would meanthat one of the > numbers indicates that Bay St. Louis, Mississippi ismore expensive then > Dallas. I really doubt that. > Hmmm, maybe the Government has an answer? NOPE. > > According to Steve , an economist with the U.S. Bureau of Labor > andStatistics (BLS) that the Consumer Price Index (CPI) " is the closestthing > we've got to the cost of living index " . (Quoting an article bya Cowan > on payscale.com). Going to the BLS website, theyaddress that the CPI is > not a cost-of-living index and that " the CPIcannot be used to measure > differences in price levels or living costsbetween one place and another; it > measures only time-to-time changes ineach place. A higher index in one area > does not necessarily mean thatprices are higher than in another area with a > lower index. It merelymeans that prices have risen faster in the area with > the higher indexsince the two areas' common reference period " . With that > being said,I bet that after Hurricane Katrina the CPI for Bay St. > Louis,Mississippi was higher than for San Francisco. > What I have found, and this was very enlightening to me, is that eventhe > government states it is too complex to derive a cost of livingindex and they > don't do one. > > I decided to check the highest authority in the land...my wife. She isa > certified compensation analyst and told me, " People ask me relativevalues > between cities all the time and there is no way to compute cleanwater, > health care costs, school districts, tax rates, etc. that trulymake up a > 'cost of living index'. It can't be done, that's why theyuse the CPI. Now be > a dear and pick up some milk on the way home " . > So anybody that states 'it costs this much to live here compared to > there...you can smile knowingly and answer 'bull hockey'. > > 2) In your missive of 12/25/09 you state that I made some assumption about > reimbursement rates being the same all across the country. In my note of > 12/21/09 I had merely stated that a full-time employee making $38 an hour > makes roughly $80,000 a year, not including benefits, continuing ed, etc. > How you extrapolated that into me thinking all areas are reimbursed the > same, I do not know. So, for the record, I know better than that all areas > of the country are reimbursed the same. > > I readily admit that I don't know how much each insurer pays each area > differently, and quite frankly, I don't have the time to call BC/BS, Aetna, > etc. and find out. However, it is easy to find out with Medicare. Comparing > reimbursements of San Francisco with Bay St. Louis Mississippi I utilized 5 > CPT codes (you can look them all up but I used 5 common ones). San Francisco > is reimbursed above Bay St. Louis by the following percentages per activity: > Therapeutic exercise--27%; Therapeutic activities--31%; Manual therapy--27%; > Ultrasound--22% and Neuromuscular re-education by 30%. > As more insurers start to 'shadow' their reimbursement with Medicare, > perhaps this does give us some greater information on the private insurer > differences between areas, but that is conjecture. > > Speaking with other private practice owners around my area the new-grad pay > rate is in the low 50's, let's say about $52,000. So, the difference between > San Francisco ($80,000) and here is 54%. With a reimbursement rate of 30% > higher. So, either they are seeing more patients per therapist, they have > lower expenses, profit margins are slimmer etc. but somewhere that has to be > accounted for. > > It was asked " What would you expect a new-grad PT to make? " and I agree > with the answer " whatever you have to pay to get a good PT (and be able to > keep the PT) and still exist while maintaining your own desirable standard > of living as a clinic owner " . However, that second part of the answer is > very telling. > For many clinicians, especially private practice, the small gains we have > received in reimbursement don't keep pace with rising costs or, even worse, > we see actual reimbursement cuts from insurers. So, the employer, at some > point will be faced with the unenviable choice of dwindling profits or > cutting back expenses, including staff. You simply can't expend more than > you take in, something will have to give. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > Re: New Grad Salaries > > > > > > > > > > > > In San Francisco, Bay Area I have found that the asking salary is $38-$40 > per hour. > > I have paid $50 per hour for vacation relief for 10 year experienced PT. > > Is this sounding too high compared to the rest of the country? or is it > in the ball-park? > > Hiten Dave' PT > > New Grad Salaries > > > > Would anyone be willing to share what they are offering new grad PT's > > currently? > > > > Joe Ruzich, PT > > Pueblo, CO > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.