Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 here we do cahrge a fee if its one we go to all the time render care and it turns out to be nothing it works at detering frequent flyers but if its a bondafied call like lo blood sugar then theres no charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 > Can anyone confirm that some EMS in Southeast Texas charge for > obtaining refusals? > > Rumor floating around at work that Goldstar in Port Arthur can't get > Police to sign witness line on refusals because of the associated fee. > > If true, what is the rationale (besides greed)? > > Steve In a previous message (15 April 2004, " Spell check omitted " ) this vidorfire fellow also said: > Well once again and expected since I didn't > post a message with a scientific study > attached were all idiots over here in rural > southeast texas. No, I certainly don't think everyone in rural east Texas is an idiot, but I think we can safely surmise that at least one person in that area is. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 > Can anyone confirm that some EMS in Southeast Texas charge for > obtaining refusals? > > Rumor floating around at work that Goldstar in Port Arthur can't get > Police to sign witness line on refusals because of the associated fee. > > If true, what is the rationale (besides greed)? > > Steve In a previous message (15 April 2004, " Spell check omitted " ) this vidorfire fellow also said: > Well once again and expected since I didn't > post a message with a scientific study > attached were all idiots over here in rural > southeast texas. No, I certainly don't think everyone in rural east Texas is an idiot, but I think we can safely surmise that at least one person in that area is. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 > Can anyone confirm that some EMS in Southeast Texas charge for > obtaining refusals? > > Rumor floating around at work that Goldstar in Port Arthur can't get > Police to sign witness line on refusals because of the associated fee. > > If true, what is the rationale (besides greed)? > > Steve In a previous message (15 April 2004, " Spell check omitted " ) this vidorfire fellow also said: > Well once again and expected since I didn't > post a message with a scientific study > attached were all idiots over here in rural > southeast texas. No, I certainly don't think everyone in rural east Texas is an idiot, but I think we can safely surmise that at least one person in that area is. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 We charge a small refusal fee (under 50.00) if the response is to a resident. The thinking here is that someone in the resident most likely the patient or a family member requested our service. We do not charge refusal fees if the response is to a public place or accident scene. The thinking here is anyone could have called for the service not necessarily the patient. As far as the frequent flyers. I don't think a refusal fee has impact on the frequent flyer. Few of the frequent callers that request a ambulance and then refuse pay their bills anyway. We charge the fee because we provide a service to the patient that called. Many times it becomes a matter of assisting the elderly that may have fallen and cannot get up. Sometimes it may be the diabetic that responds to treatment on scene and then refuses to be transported. The ones listed by far exceed the number of trolls that call and then refuse. Henry` Steve wrote: > Can anyone confirm that some EMS in Southeast Texas charge for > obtaining refusals? > > Rumor floating around at work that Goldstar in Port Arthur can't get > Police to sign witness line on refusals because of the associated fee. > > If true, what is the rationale (besides greed)? > > Steve > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 -----Original Message----- Rumor floating around at work that Goldstar in Port Arthur can't get Police to sign witness line on refusals because of the associated fee. Okay, I'm game. The signing that the officer witnesses someone signing their name has nothing to do with the fee (cost recovery or otherwise) that will may be charged to the patient. Refusing to sign the fee won't make the fee go away any more than signing the form makes the fee occur. This makes no logical sense. The officers not signing as a witness because of a fee that may be charged to the patient makes as much sense as EMS refusing to make a call to the jail because the medics don't believe in the death penalty or because they think the cops are too tough on public intoxication violations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 -----Original Message----- Rumor floating around at work that Goldstar in Port Arthur can't get Police to sign witness line on refusals because of the associated fee. Okay, I'm game. The signing that the officer witnesses someone signing their name has nothing to do with the fee (cost recovery or otherwise) that will may be charged to the patient. Refusing to sign the fee won't make the fee go away any more than signing the form makes the fee occur. This makes no logical sense. The officers not signing as a witness because of a fee that may be charged to the patient makes as much sense as EMS refusing to make a call to the jail because the medics don't believe in the death penalty or because they think the cops are too tough on public intoxication violations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 -----Original Message----- Rumor floating around at work that Goldstar in Port Arthur can't get Police to sign witness line on refusals because of the associated fee. Okay, I'm game. The signing that the officer witnesses someone signing their name has nothing to do with the fee (cost recovery or otherwise) that will may be charged to the patient. Refusing to sign the fee won't make the fee go away any more than signing the form makes the fee occur. This makes no logical sense. The officers not signing as a witness because of a fee that may be charged to the patient makes as much sense as EMS refusing to make a call to the jail because the medics don't believe in the death penalty or because they think the cops are too tough on public intoxication violations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 It's not just Southeast Texas or Goldstar--a lot of services charge on refusals. Our procedure is similar to what Henry Barber has already posted. If the patient (or someone acting on behalf of the patient) requests EMS, then there is a charge. If the call was placed by someone acting without the knowledge or request of the patient (such as at an MVA where a passerby or LE might have made the request) then there is no charge UNLESS the patient accepts treatment after we arrive. Then we would charge for the services provided. Rationale? Pretty simple--rolling that ambulance costs money, and supplies cost money, even on refusals. If a person requests and/or uses a service, shouldn't that person be expected to pay for the service? As far as police refusing to sign, I don't see what witnessing a refusal has to do with any fees that may or may not be charged. Maxine Pate hire-Pattison EMS ----- Original Message ----- > Can anyone confirm that some EMS in Southeast Texas charge for > obtaining refusals? > > Rumor floating around at work that Goldstar in Port Arthur can't get > Police to sign witness line on refusals because of the associated fee. > > If true, what is the rationale (besides greed)? > > Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Is this even legal? I don't claim to be an expert on the subject of billing, but isn't consistancy in your billing policies and procedures one way to stay out of trouble with Medicare, Medicaid, etc? I would think that you could be setting yourself up for some big problems if your decision of whether or not to charge is based on such a weak reason as " frequent flyer " . Sure it would be nice if people who misuse EMS would be discouraged by knowing that they will be charged. However, the decision to send a bill should be based on whether or not the person requested or used our services, not on how often or why they call. Maxine hire-Pattison EMS ----- Original Message ----- > here we do cahrge a fee if its one we go to all the time render care and it > turns out to be nothing it works at detering frequent flyers but if its a > bondafied call like lo blood sugar then theres no charge > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Well where I am we charge a response fee if the call turns out to be a refusal for cost replacement/recovery. We also work on the policy not to treat in the field of a potential refusal (ie: diabetic, CP, syncope, seizures) If they refuse it would be without " pre-treatment " and AMA, or they could/would get all treatment in the back of the unit on the way to the ER if they did want to get treated. Our response fees don't deviate from frequent flyers to 1st time callers, both will get the fee bill reguardless unless there is no paperwork generated. You really set yourself up for trouble if you charge one and not the other just because they are a frequent flyer. Now not wanting to sign because an agency charges is just stupidity on the behalf of the officer. Obviously they don't understand that it still cost money to come out even if we get a refusal. We don't have that problem here in county because its understood that responses cost. Jeff > Is this even legal? I don't claim to be an expert on the subject of > billing, but isn't consistancy in your billing policies and procedures one > way to stay out of trouble with Medicare, Medicaid, etc? I would think that > you could be setting yourself up for some big problems if your decision of > whether or not to charge is based on such a weak reason as " frequent flyer " . > > Sure it would be nice if people who misuse EMS would be discouraged by > knowing that they will be charged. However, the decision to send a bill > should be based on whether or not the person requested or used our services, > not on how often or why they call. > > Maxine > hire-Pattison EMS > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <rougemed2@a...> > > > > here we do cahrge a fee if its one we go to all the time render care and > it > > turns out to be nothing it works at detering frequent flyers but if its a > > bondafied call like lo blood sugar then theres no charge > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 its not just the frequent flyer we get a call we roll and we show up only to be told i want to refuse we go back and then wait and roll out yet again for the same person same c/c and a refusal yet again after that then they charge for a refusal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 its not just the frequent flyer we get a call we roll and we show up only to be told i want to refuse we go back and then wait and roll out yet again for the same person same c/c and a refusal yet again after that then they charge for a refusal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 its not just the frequent flyer we get a call we roll and we show up only to be told i want to refuse we go back and then wait and roll out yet again for the same person same c/c and a refusal yet again after that then they charge for a refusal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Like Maxine and Henry we also (on County EMS) charge for refusals. The only one we don't is for accidents because it is usually hard to pinpoint exactly who called EMS. Otherwise we charge the patient for the response and any associated supplies used during their treatment. This puts the cost of EMS on those that use the service and not soo much on the tax payers. Re: $200 Refusal Fee > Is this even legal? I don't claim to be an expert on the subject of > billing, but isn't consistancy in your billing policies and procedures one > way to stay out of trouble with Medicare, Medicaid, etc? I would think that > you could be setting yourself up for some big problems if your decision of > whether or not to charge is based on such a weak reason as " frequent flyer " . > > Sure it would be nice if people who misuse EMS would be discouraged by > knowing that they will be charged. However, the decision to send a bill > should be based on whether or not the person requested or used our services, > not on how often or why they call. > > Maxine > hire-Pattison EMS > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > here we do cahrge a fee if its one we go to all the time render care and > it > > turns out to be nothing it works at detering frequent flyers but if its a > > bondafied call like lo blood sugar then theres no charge > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Like Maxine and Henry we also (on County EMS) charge for refusals. The only one we don't is for accidents because it is usually hard to pinpoint exactly who called EMS. Otherwise we charge the patient for the response and any associated supplies used during their treatment. This puts the cost of EMS on those that use the service and not soo much on the tax payers. Re: $200 Refusal Fee > Is this even legal? I don't claim to be an expert on the subject of > billing, but isn't consistancy in your billing policies and procedures one > way to stay out of trouble with Medicare, Medicaid, etc? I would think that > you could be setting yourself up for some big problems if your decision of > whether or not to charge is based on such a weak reason as " frequent flyer " . > > Sure it would be nice if people who misuse EMS would be discouraged by > knowing that they will be charged. However, the decision to send a bill > should be based on whether or not the person requested or used our services, > not on how often or why they call. > > Maxine > hire-Pattison EMS > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > here we do cahrge a fee if its one we go to all the time render care and > it > > turns out to be nothing it works at detering frequent flyers but if its a > > bondafied call like lo blood sugar then theres no charge > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Like Maxine and Henry we also (on County EMS) charge for refusals. The only one we don't is for accidents because it is usually hard to pinpoint exactly who called EMS. Otherwise we charge the patient for the response and any associated supplies used during their treatment. This puts the cost of EMS on those that use the service and not soo much on the tax payers. Re: $200 Refusal Fee > Is this even legal? I don't claim to be an expert on the subject of > billing, but isn't consistancy in your billing policies and procedures one > way to stay out of trouble with Medicare, Medicaid, etc? I would think that > you could be setting yourself up for some big problems if your decision of > whether or not to charge is based on such a weak reason as " frequent flyer " . > > Sure it would be nice if people who misuse EMS would be discouraged by > knowing that they will be charged. However, the decision to send a bill > should be based on whether or not the person requested or used our services, > not on how often or why they call. > > Maxine > hire-Pattison EMS > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > here we do cahrge a fee if its one we go to all the time render care and > it > > turns out to be nothing it works at detering frequent flyers but if its a > > bondafied call like lo blood sugar then theres no charge > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 In the City of Beaumont, we charge a $100 response fee. It is not charged for 3rd party calls, which most MVC's are. Rarely does a victim of a MVC call 911 for medical response and not go to the hospital. If a person dials 911 for any reason and we respond, they refuse transport, we charge. If a family member calls, that is 3rd party. We have taken an ambulance out of service for a 911 call and we use a D-stick, get a blood sugar of 30, give D50 and patient refuses transport, we charge for response fee, als medical supplies, etc. If we respond to a call and the person is not a resident of the City of Beaumont, we charge a nonresident fee of $100 pulse a response fee if a refusal is obtained. I am sure this will get some verbal response, but we collect and it pays the bills. Andy Foote Manager of Beaumont EMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 In the City of Beaumont, we charge a $100 response fee. It is not charged for 3rd party calls, which most MVC's are. Rarely does a victim of a MVC call 911 for medical response and not go to the hospital. If a person dials 911 for any reason and we respond, they refuse transport, we charge. If a family member calls, that is 3rd party. We have taken an ambulance out of service for a 911 call and we use a D-stick, get a blood sugar of 30, give D50 and patient refuses transport, we charge for response fee, als medical supplies, etc. If we respond to a call and the person is not a resident of the City of Beaumont, we charge a nonresident fee of $100 pulse a response fee if a refusal is obtained. I am sure this will get some verbal response, but we collect and it pays the bills. Andy Foote Manager of Beaumont EMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 In the City of Beaumont, we charge a $100 response fee. It is not charged for 3rd party calls, which most MVC's are. Rarely does a victim of a MVC call 911 for medical response and not go to the hospital. If a person dials 911 for any reason and we respond, they refuse transport, we charge. If a family member calls, that is 3rd party. We have taken an ambulance out of service for a 911 call and we use a D-stick, get a blood sugar of 30, give D50 and patient refuses transport, we charge for response fee, als medical supplies, etc. If we respond to a call and the person is not a resident of the City of Beaumont, we charge a nonresident fee of $100 pulse a response fee if a refusal is obtained. I am sure this will get some verbal response, but we collect and it pays the bills. Andy Foote Manager of Beaumont EMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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