Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Steve, The REAL world is when you transport a patient inappropriately by helo, one that didn't need to go that way and would receive no benefit from it, and the helo crashes and kills your patient. You're sued and your certification/license taken away for inappropriately transporting the patient that you could have, should have handled on the ground. Then what are you going to do? Gene In a message dated 4/15/2004 5:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, vidorfire249@... writes: Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast texas. As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a study on the yahoo web page? I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure out how I can best deal with what I have. My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? Steve working in the REAL world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Steve, The REAL world is when you transport a patient inappropriately by helo, one that didn't need to go that way and would receive no benefit from it, and the helo crashes and kills your patient. You're sued and your certification/license taken away for inappropriately transporting the patient that you could have, should have handled on the ground. Then what are you going to do? Gene In a message dated 4/15/2004 5:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, vidorfire249@... writes: Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast texas. As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a study on the yahoo web page? I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure out how I can best deal with what I have. My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? Steve working in the REAL world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Steve, The REAL world is when you transport a patient inappropriately by helo, one that didn't need to go that way and would receive no benefit from it, and the helo crashes and kills your patient. You're sued and your certification/license taken away for inappropriately transporting the patient that you could have, should have handled on the ground. Then what are you going to do? Gene In a message dated 4/15/2004 5:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, vidorfire249@... writes: Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast texas. As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a study on the yahoo web page? I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure out how I can best deal with what I have. My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? Steve working in the REAL world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Gene, Steve wouldn't know. He doesn't like lawyers, so he avoids them. I don't like morons, so I avoid the Orange County, Texas area. -Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Gene, Steve wouldn't know. He doesn't like lawyers, so he avoids them. I don't like morons, so I avoid the Orange County, Texas area. -Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Gene, Steve wouldn't know. He doesn't like lawyers, so he avoids them. I don't like morons, so I avoid the Orange County, Texas area. -Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast texas. Who said you are an idiot or that people in East Texas are idiots? As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a study on the yahoo web page? Do you want a copy of the studies? Send me Dr. Amsdens' email an I will send him the studies. I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure out how I can best deal with what I have. My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. You don't think I have done this in 30 years. In the emergency department we don't hide behind the staff--but there are a few cleaning people that are pretty big and I guewss we could hide behind them if we had to. How fast is required? We know there is no such thing as The Golden Hour. How fast is necessary? Will the difference between ground and helicopter transport make a clinical difference. I gotta go to work. I may even need to get the sherriffs department to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? Perhaps you should. You are the person responsible for patient care and it is incumbent upon you to be up to date on the science of EMS--not the Sherriff's Office. Steve working in the REAL world and having an emotional tirade 30+ years in the real world of EMS and emergency medicine (including working as a flight paramedic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast texas. Who said you are an idiot or that people in East Texas are idiots? As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a study on the yahoo web page? Do you want a copy of the studies? Send me Dr. Amsdens' email an I will send him the studies. I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure out how I can best deal with what I have. My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. You don't think I have done this in 30 years. In the emergency department we don't hide behind the staff--but there are a few cleaning people that are pretty big and I guewss we could hide behind them if we had to. How fast is required? We know there is no such thing as The Golden Hour. How fast is necessary? Will the difference between ground and helicopter transport make a clinical difference. I gotta go to work. I may even need to get the sherriffs department to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? Perhaps you should. You are the person responsible for patient care and it is incumbent upon you to be up to date on the science of EMS--not the Sherriff's Office. Steve working in the REAL world and having an emotional tirade 30+ years in the real world of EMS and emergency medicine (including working as a flight paramedic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast texas. Who said you are an idiot or that people in East Texas are idiots? As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a study on the yahoo web page? Do you want a copy of the studies? Send me Dr. Amsdens' email an I will send him the studies. I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure out how I can best deal with what I have. My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. You don't think I have done this in 30 years. In the emergency department we don't hide behind the staff--but there are a few cleaning people that are pretty big and I guewss we could hide behind them if we had to. How fast is required? We know there is no such thing as The Golden Hour. How fast is necessary? Will the difference between ground and helicopter transport make a clinical difference. I gotta go to work. I may even need to get the sherriffs department to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? Perhaps you should. You are the person responsible for patient care and it is incumbent upon you to be up to date on the science of EMS--not the Sherriff's Office. Steve working in the REAL world and having an emotional tirade 30+ years in the real world of EMS and emergency medicine (including working as a flight paramedic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 You know, I agree with most of what you said, but this statement worries me: " We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. " Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? GG In a message dated 4/15/2004 8:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, magnetass@... writes: We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 You know, I agree with most of what you said, but this statement worries me: " We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. " Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? GG In a message dated 4/15/2004 8:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, magnetass@... writes: We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Find another job? I was looking for a job when I found EMS, and I will be OK when I leave it. We all get paid to make decisions, and not all....in fact, a whole bunch of them, are either wrong, or could have been made better with hindsight. You just have to do what you think is best. If you thought that every decision you made was going to cost you your job/certs, how could you ever do anything? We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. If somebody wants my job or certification becuase I was doing what I thought was best for my pt. they can have it on a plate. I, for one, am a pretty talented guy, and I'll be just fine. I have to look at myself in the mirror, and I don't get paid NEARLY enough money to asuage myself if I start compromising what I think is the right thing because I'm afraid of getting fired or sued. There are plenty of things I could do for money. magnetass sends Re: spell check omitted > Steve, > > The REAL world is when you transport a patient inappropriately by helo, one > that didn't need to go that way and would receive no benefit from it, and the > helo crashes and kills your patient. You're sued and your > certification/license taken away for inappropriately transporting the patient that you could have, > should have handled on the ground. > > Then what are you going to do? > > Gene > > In a message dated 4/15/2004 5:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > vidorfire249@... writes: > Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a > scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural > southeast texas. > > As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do > decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' > protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden > questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a > study on the yahoo web page? > > I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide > behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to > figure out how I can best deal with what I have. > My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out > we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride > to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. > > I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department > to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi > trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? > > Steve > working in the REAL world > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Find another job? I was looking for a job when I found EMS, and I will be OK when I leave it. We all get paid to make decisions, and not all....in fact, a whole bunch of them, are either wrong, or could have been made better with hindsight. You just have to do what you think is best. If you thought that every decision you made was going to cost you your job/certs, how could you ever do anything? We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. If somebody wants my job or certification becuase I was doing what I thought was best for my pt. they can have it on a plate. I, for one, am a pretty talented guy, and I'll be just fine. I have to look at myself in the mirror, and I don't get paid NEARLY enough money to asuage myself if I start compromising what I think is the right thing because I'm afraid of getting fired or sued. There are plenty of things I could do for money. magnetass sends Re: spell check omitted > Steve, > > The REAL world is when you transport a patient inappropriately by helo, one > that didn't need to go that way and would receive no benefit from it, and the > helo crashes and kills your patient. You're sued and your > certification/license taken away for inappropriately transporting the patient that you could have, > should have handled on the ground. > > Then what are you going to do? > > Gene > > In a message dated 4/15/2004 5:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > vidorfire249@... writes: > Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a > scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural > southeast texas. > > As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do > decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' > protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden > questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a > study on the yahoo web page? > > I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide > behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to > figure out how I can best deal with what I have. > My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out > we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride > to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. > > I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department > to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi > trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? > > Steve > working in the REAL world > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Comments following the ridiculous rant. > Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a > scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural > southeast texas. > > As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do > decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' > protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden > questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a > study on the yahoo web page? > > I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide > behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to > figure out how I can best deal with what I have. > My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out > we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride > to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. > > I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department > to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi > trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? > > Steve > working in the REAL world You need to quit hiding behind the fact that you work for a living, we all do. What you are doing is avoiding studying anything because it makes YOU make the decision. As it stands, if anything goes wrong, you can make the vain attempt at blaming everyone else for what goes wrong, " It's in our protocols " , " The Doctor said " , or my personal favorite " We've always done it that way " . One of these days, when the defecation hits the oscillator, and you get sued, you'll fall back on those defenses and you will sink. They don't hold water. They don't hold water with a jury, and they won't hold water when they compare your care to the care of a prudent Paramedic given the same circumstances. Your comment about working in the real world is almsot sickening. I am a Paramedic, I am a field paramedic, I have been a ground field Medic for 14 years, and was a flight Paramedic for 2 years, you and I do the same job, I work 48 hour shifts, 48 on and 48 off, so I spend half my life at the station. I also work a part time job, so I don't want to hear crap about how you have to work hard for your money. I still find the time to read studies, and ask questions, for more than one reason, but to me the most important is so that I can offer the best care to my patients as possible. As an ex flight medic, I can't tell you how many times we were called to ridiculous bullsh** because some idiot on the ground thought we practiced magic medicine in the air, that since we were " Flight Medics " we could shake up the mojo at 750 feet and perform miracles. I have had crews wait for nearly 30 minutes for us to arrive when they could have been to the trauma center is 20, because it " was in the protocols " that for any patient suffereing from 'X', they should be flown. Get a hand on your protocols, give your input istead of just whining about what's in them. Use a little common sense, and for G**'s sake, quit thinking you are the only one around here that has to work for a living. You need some back up in your corner of the world? What are you doing to get it? Surely you don't think that pissing and moaning on an EMS listserver will instantly give you some magic answers do you? Your ESD is broke? Raise the tax rate. Committee won't do that? If not there isn't diddly sh** your state level politicians or an EMS organization can do for you, get your public educated and let them go scream at the committee. If you are not part of the solution, then you are certainly part of the problem. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Comments following the ridiculous rant. > Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a > scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural > southeast texas. > > As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do > decide that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' > protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden > questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a > study on the yahoo web page? > > I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide > behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to > figure out how I can best deal with what I have. > My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out > we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride > to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. > > I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department > to set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi > trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? > > Steve > working in the REAL world You need to quit hiding behind the fact that you work for a living, we all do. What you are doing is avoiding studying anything because it makes YOU make the decision. As it stands, if anything goes wrong, you can make the vain attempt at blaming everyone else for what goes wrong, " It's in our protocols " , " The Doctor said " , or my personal favorite " We've always done it that way " . One of these days, when the defecation hits the oscillator, and you get sued, you'll fall back on those defenses and you will sink. They don't hold water. They don't hold water with a jury, and they won't hold water when they compare your care to the care of a prudent Paramedic given the same circumstances. Your comment about working in the real world is almsot sickening. I am a Paramedic, I am a field paramedic, I have been a ground field Medic for 14 years, and was a flight Paramedic for 2 years, you and I do the same job, I work 48 hour shifts, 48 on and 48 off, so I spend half my life at the station. I also work a part time job, so I don't want to hear crap about how you have to work hard for your money. I still find the time to read studies, and ask questions, for more than one reason, but to me the most important is so that I can offer the best care to my patients as possible. As an ex flight medic, I can't tell you how many times we were called to ridiculous bullsh** because some idiot on the ground thought we practiced magic medicine in the air, that since we were " Flight Medics " we could shake up the mojo at 750 feet and perform miracles. I have had crews wait for nearly 30 minutes for us to arrive when they could have been to the trauma center is 20, because it " was in the protocols " that for any patient suffereing from 'X', they should be flown. Get a hand on your protocols, give your input istead of just whining about what's in them. Use a little common sense, and for G**'s sake, quit thinking you are the only one around here that has to work for a living. You need some back up in your corner of the world? What are you doing to get it? Surely you don't think that pissing and moaning on an EMS listserver will instantly give you some magic answers do you? Your ESD is broke? Raise the tax rate. Committee won't do that? If not there isn't diddly sh** your state level politicians or an EMS organization can do for you, get your public educated and let them go scream at the committee. If you are not part of the solution, then you are certainly part of the problem. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I hear Luby's cafeteria in Orange County is hiring. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX " Faith is believing what you know ain't so. " Mark Twain Following the Equator Don't miss EMStock 2004!http://www.emstock.com Re: spell check omitted Comments following the ridiculous rant. > Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a > scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast > texas. > > As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide > that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' > protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden > questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a > study on the yahoo web page? > > I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide > behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure > out how I can best deal with what I have. > My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out > we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride > to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. > > I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department to > set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi > trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? > > Steve > working in the REAL world You need to quit hiding behind the fact that you work for a living, we all do. What you are doing is avoiding studying anything because it makes YOU make the decision. As it stands, if anything goes wrong, you can make the vain attempt at blaming everyone else for what goes wrong, " It's in our protocols " , " The Doctor said " , or my personal favorite " We've always done it that way " . One of these days, when the defecation hits the oscillator, and you get sued, you'll fall back on those defenses and you will sink. They don't hold water. They don't hold water with a jury, and they won't hold water when they compare your care to the care of a prudent Paramedic given the same circumstances. Your comment about working in the real world is almsot sickening. I am a Paramedic, I am a field paramedic, I have been a ground field Medic for 14 years, and was a flight Paramedic for 2 years, you and I do the same job, I work 48 hour shifts, 48 on and 48 off, so I spend half my life at the station. I also work a part time job, so I don't want to hear crap about how you have to work hard for your money. I still find the time to read studies, and ask questions, for more than one reason, but to me the most important is so that I can offer the best care to my patients as possible. As an ex flight medic, I can't tell you how many times we were called to ridiculous bullsh** because some idiot on the ground thought we practiced magic medicine in the air, that since we were " Flight Medics " we could shake up the mojo at 750 feet and perform miracles. I have had crews wait for nearly 30 minutes for us to arrive when they could have been to the trauma center is 20, because it " was in the protocols " that for any patient suffereing from 'X', they should be flown. Get a hand on your protocols, give your input istead of just whining about what's in them. Use a little common sense, and for G**'s sake, quit thinking you are the only one around here that has to work for a living. You need some back up in your corner of the world? What are you doing to get it? Surely you don't think that pissing and moaning on an EMS listserver will instantly give you some magic answers do you? Your ESD is broke? Raise the tax rate. Committee won't do that? If not there isn't diddly sh** your state level politicians or an EMS organization can do for you, get your public educated and let them go scream at the committee. If you are not part of the solution, then you are certainly part of the problem. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I hear Luby's cafeteria in Orange County is hiring. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX " Faith is believing what you know ain't so. " Mark Twain Following the Equator Don't miss EMStock 2004!http://www.emstock.com Re: spell check omitted Comments following the ridiculous rant. > Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a > scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast > texas. > > As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide > that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' > protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden > questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a > study on the yahoo web page? > > I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide > behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure > out how I can best deal with what I have. > My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out > we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride > to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. > > I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department to > set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi > trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? > > Steve > working in the REAL world You need to quit hiding behind the fact that you work for a living, we all do. What you are doing is avoiding studying anything because it makes YOU make the decision. As it stands, if anything goes wrong, you can make the vain attempt at blaming everyone else for what goes wrong, " It's in our protocols " , " The Doctor said " , or my personal favorite " We've always done it that way " . One of these days, when the defecation hits the oscillator, and you get sued, you'll fall back on those defenses and you will sink. They don't hold water. They don't hold water with a jury, and they won't hold water when they compare your care to the care of a prudent Paramedic given the same circumstances. Your comment about working in the real world is almsot sickening. I am a Paramedic, I am a field paramedic, I have been a ground field Medic for 14 years, and was a flight Paramedic for 2 years, you and I do the same job, I work 48 hour shifts, 48 on and 48 off, so I spend half my life at the station. I also work a part time job, so I don't want to hear crap about how you have to work hard for your money. I still find the time to read studies, and ask questions, for more than one reason, but to me the most important is so that I can offer the best care to my patients as possible. As an ex flight medic, I can't tell you how many times we were called to ridiculous bullsh** because some idiot on the ground thought we practiced magic medicine in the air, that since we were " Flight Medics " we could shake up the mojo at 750 feet and perform miracles. I have had crews wait for nearly 30 minutes for us to arrive when they could have been to the trauma center is 20, because it " was in the protocols " that for any patient suffereing from 'X', they should be flown. Get a hand on your protocols, give your input istead of just whining about what's in them. Use a little common sense, and for G**'s sake, quit thinking you are the only one around here that has to work for a living. You need some back up in your corner of the world? What are you doing to get it? Surely you don't think that pissing and moaning on an EMS listserver will instantly give you some magic answers do you? Your ESD is broke? Raise the tax rate. Committee won't do that? If not there isn't diddly sh** your state level politicians or an EMS organization can do for you, get your public educated and let them go scream at the committee. If you are not part of the solution, then you are certainly part of the problem. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I hear Luby's cafeteria in Orange County is hiring. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX " Faith is believing what you know ain't so. " Mark Twain Following the Equator Don't miss EMStock 2004!http://www.emstock.com Re: spell check omitted Comments following the ridiculous rant. > Well once again and expected since I didn't post a message with a > scientific study attached were all idiots over here in rural southeast > texas. > > As I mentioned, we don't decide the transport destination. I do decide > that during prolonged extrication, and by Dr. M. Amsdens' > protocols we we will utilize air ambulance. Next time Dr. Amsden > questions my protocol compliance I guess I better say that I read a > study on the yahoo web page? > > I don't have a door, staff of nurses, and other specialties to hide > behind when the call is toned out. I have a very few seconds to figure > out how I can best deal with what I have. > My state legislature and state EMS association (lol) can't figure out > we need some back up in our corner of the world yet. The fastest ride > to the best surgeon is usually got a propeller on the roof. > > I gotta go to work/ I may even need to get the sherriffs department to > set up an LZ for me in a little while. When they ask if my multi > trauma patient needs a helicopter, perhaps I should cite them a study? > > Steve > working in the REAL world You need to quit hiding behind the fact that you work for a living, we all do. What you are doing is avoiding studying anything because it makes YOU make the decision. As it stands, if anything goes wrong, you can make the vain attempt at blaming everyone else for what goes wrong, " It's in our protocols " , " The Doctor said " , or my personal favorite " We've always done it that way " . One of these days, when the defecation hits the oscillator, and you get sued, you'll fall back on those defenses and you will sink. They don't hold water. They don't hold water with a jury, and they won't hold water when they compare your care to the care of a prudent Paramedic given the same circumstances. Your comment about working in the real world is almsot sickening. I am a Paramedic, I am a field paramedic, I have been a ground field Medic for 14 years, and was a flight Paramedic for 2 years, you and I do the same job, I work 48 hour shifts, 48 on and 48 off, so I spend half my life at the station. I also work a part time job, so I don't want to hear crap about how you have to work hard for your money. I still find the time to read studies, and ask questions, for more than one reason, but to me the most important is so that I can offer the best care to my patients as possible. As an ex flight medic, I can't tell you how many times we were called to ridiculous bullsh** because some idiot on the ground thought we practiced magic medicine in the air, that since we were " Flight Medics " we could shake up the mojo at 750 feet and perform miracles. I have had crews wait for nearly 30 minutes for us to arrive when they could have been to the trauma center is 20, because it " was in the protocols " that for any patient suffereing from 'X', they should be flown. Get a hand on your protocols, give your input istead of just whining about what's in them. Use a little common sense, and for G**'s sake, quit thinking you are the only one around here that has to work for a living. You need some back up in your corner of the world? What are you doing to get it? Surely you don't think that pissing and moaning on an EMS listserver will instantly give you some magic answers do you? Your ESD is broke? Raise the tax rate. Committee won't do that? If not there isn't diddly sh** your state level politicians or an EMS organization can do for you, get your public educated and let them go scream at the committee. If you are not part of the solution, then you are certainly part of the problem. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Gene: The same thing caught my eye. The current DOT paramedic cirriculum is difficult. In fact, when I wrote the chapter on pathophysiology, much of it was the same level as I had in medical school. The airway material a paramedic needs to know places them head and shoulders above all other non-physician health care members (except CRNAs) and ahead of 90% of physicians--save anesthesiologists, intensivists and emergency physicians. Celebrate the knowledge--don't hide behind it. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX " Faith is believing what you know ain't so. " Mark Twain Following the Equator Don't miss EMStock 2004!http://www.emstock.com Re: spell check omitted You know, I agree with most of what you said, but this statement worries me: " We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. " Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? GG In a message dated 4/15/2004 8:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, magnetass@... writes: We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 " Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? " I mean the coursework for the certification, obviously. Who in their right mind is going to invest in the ammount of education that, say, a PA or bachelors degreed RN has....to make 11 bucks an hour? It's nobody's " fault " it's just a factual statement that the educational requirements for pre-hospital medicine rank towards the low end of the scale of healthcare, but are charged with far more clinical responsibility than the vast majority of them. Why does that statement worry you? I'm not saying that we aren't responsible to learn as much as we can about our jobs, and medicine, I'm saying that we are charged with performing more, with less, with little room for error, for no money. Now, fortunately, the industry is populated with people who are dedicated and love what they do. It's why I do it. You can't put a price on job satisfaction, but the next thing that has to change is what we are being paid. You aren't going to get people to commit to more education without some financial benefit. Doctors are at the top of the heap because they committed to the most education. I am paid little better than a nurse aid or medication tech, but am trained in a lot of ways to RN level. The security guard at the ER makes more money than I do. At some point are we going to ask that somebody commit to a bachelors program in pre-hospital medicine, to make 28K a year? Being a medic is cool, but it ain't that cool. We can talk all day long about professionalism, and raising the standard of our education, but until the compensation for the industry across the board is raised dramatically, we are just spinning our wheels. magnetass sends Re: spell check omitted > You know, I agree with most of what you said, but this statement worries me: > > " We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged > with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are > expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. " > > Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I > looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody > who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the > " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? > > GG > > In a message dated 4/15/2004 8:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, > magnetass@... writes: > We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged > with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are > expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Just when I get depreesed, somebody like Hatfield or Magnetass brings me hope for EMS. Education must come before pay. This is sad for the people who must get education and tolerate poor pay for a while. I was in the same dilemna in 1980. I loved EMS and wanted to make a career of it. But I saw no future and had a wife and two young kids at home. I was lucky in that school always came easily and I earned a BS with pretty good grades while working as a paramedic. I found that if I went to medical school, I could make 10-20 times my EMS salary and still stay involved in EMS. Unfortunatley, few have such luck. Things will get better. Read my article at the following link and see how some other countries do EMS. Peole give me grief about my fixation with Australia (it is more than the topless beaches). Read about the Australian paramedics in my article: http://www.bryanbledsoe.com/Pay.pdf " Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? " I mean the coursework for the certification, obviously. Who in their right mind is going to invest in the ammount of education that, say, a PA or bachelors degreed RN has....to make 11 bucks an hour? It's nobody's " fault " it's just a factual statement that the educational requirements for pre-hospital medicine rank towards the low end of the scale of healthcare, but are charged with far more clinical responsibility than the vast majority of them. Why does that statement worry you? I'm not saying that we aren't responsible to learn as much as we can about our jobs, and medicine, I'm saying that we are charged with performing more, with less, with little room for error, for no money. Now, fortunately, the industry is populated with people who are dedicated and love what they do. It's why I do it. You can't put a price on job satisfaction, but the next thing that has to change is what we are being paid. You aren't going to get people to commit to more education without some financial benefit. Doctors are at the top of the heap because they committed to the most education. I am paid little better than a nurse aid or medication tech, but am trained in a lot of ways to RN level. The security guard at the ER makes more money than I do. At some point are we going to ask that somebody commit to a bachelors program in pre-hospital medicine, to make 28K a year? Being a medic is cool, but it ain't that cool. We can talk all day long about professionalism, and raising the standard of our education, but until the compensation for the industry across the board is raised dramatically, we are just spinning our wheels. magnetass sends Re: spell check omitted > You know, I agree with most of what you said, but this statement worries me: > > " We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged > with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are > expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. " > > Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I > looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody > who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the > " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? > > GG > > In a message dated 4/15/2004 8:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, > magnetass@... writes: > We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged > with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are > expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Tell it to the Marines, er, I mean Congress. Mike Re: spell check omitted " Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? " I mean the coursework for the certification, obviously. Who in their right mind is going to invest in the ammount of education that, say, a PA or bachelors degreed RN has....to make 11 bucks an hour? It's nobody's " fault " it's just a factual statement that the educational requirements for pre-hospital medicine rank towards the low end of the scale of healthcare, but are charged with far more clinical responsibility than the vast majority of them. Why does that statement worry you? I'm not saying that we aren't responsible to learn as much as we can about our jobs, and medicine, I'm saying that we are charged with performing more, with less, with little room for error, for no money. Now, fortunately, the industry is populated with people who are dedicated and love what they do. It's why I do it. You can't put a price on job satisfaction, but the next thing that has to change is what we are being paid. You aren't going to get people to commit to more education without some financial benefit. Doctors are at the top of the heap because they committed to the most education. I am paid little better than a nurse aid or medication tech, but am trained in a lot of ways to RN level. The security guard at the ER makes more money than I do. At some point are we going to ask that somebody commit to a bachelors program in pre-hospital medicine, to make 28K a year? Being a medic is cool, but it ain't that cool. We can talk all day long about professionalism, and raising the standard of our education, but until the compensation for the industry across the board is raised dramatically, we are just spinning our wheels. magnetass sends Re: spell check omitted > You know, I agree with most of what you said, but this statement worries me: > > " We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged > with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are > expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. " > > Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time I > looked education was readily available in this country to just about anybody > who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the > " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? > > GG > > In a message dated 4/15/2004 8:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, > magnetass@... writes: > We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged > with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are > expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 > > Just when I get depreesed, somebody like Hatfield or Magnetass brings me > hope for EMS. We're in a world of sh** if your hope for EMS lies in a guy who is an opinionated, arrogant, egostitical SOB, and another guy with a nickname like 'Magnetass'.... No offense ....... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Fact is, most of us in pre-hospital medicine aren't paramedics. The paramedic curriculum is difficult, but so is everything else in medicine, and we sure don't recieve the general medical training of a BSN, PA or Nurse Practicioner, but we sure have the responsibility....without the burden of the paycheck. I celebrate the knowlege that I have, I really do, and I'm proud of what I do. My point is that a field medic is faced with making decisions that affect lives every time they work. We are held to a degree of clinical responsibility that is completely unique. A BSN in the ICU has tons of marvelous training and vast medical knowlege. They also have an ultimate backup...an MD. I don't have that. I took a 9 month certificate course in pre-hospital medicine, but my ass is standing there in a dark room at 3 in the morning trying to figure out why gramma is dying, or in the middle of a chaotic bar after a double shooting, usually by my lonesome. My decisions better be right on the money too. I am fortunate in that I get to have another paramedic with me, but most people don't have that luxury, so when the guy quits breathing, everybody is staring at you. We are expected to perform the miraculous, but with no fish, and only a couple of loaves. I might be able to dazzle physicians with my knowlege of difficult airways, but in most places, if I blow one, I'm out looking for another job. Steve's, and my point, is that we are the ones out there in the dark and rain, trying to figure out what to do. We are pushed out there with inadequate support in most every aspect of EMS that you can name, trying to make a difference, keeping in mind that a whole bunch of people are going to be second guessing what you did, doctors, lawyers, families, and some guy who has merely hung on longer than everybody else so gets to be " supervisor " , despite the fact that.....you have the most responsibility, with the least amount of education, for the least amount of money. What a bargain we are! magnetass sends Re: spell check omitted > > You know, I agree with most of what you said, but this statement worries me: > > " We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most > responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be > damned near perfect in our judgements. " > > Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time > I looked education was readily available in this country to just about > anybody who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the > " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? > > GG > > In a message dated 4/15/2004 8:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, > magnetass@... writes: > We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged > with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are > expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Fact is, most of us in pre-hospital medicine aren't paramedics. The paramedic curriculum is difficult, but so is everything else in medicine, and we sure don't recieve the general medical training of a BSN, PA or Nurse Practicioner, but we sure have the responsibility....without the burden of the paycheck. I celebrate the knowlege that I have, I really do, and I'm proud of what I do. My point is that a field medic is faced with making decisions that affect lives every time they work. We are held to a degree of clinical responsibility that is completely unique. A BSN in the ICU has tons of marvelous training and vast medical knowlege. They also have an ultimate backup...an MD. I don't have that. I took a 9 month certificate course in pre-hospital medicine, but my ass is standing there in a dark room at 3 in the morning trying to figure out why gramma is dying, or in the middle of a chaotic bar after a double shooting, usually by my lonesome. My decisions better be right on the money too. I am fortunate in that I get to have another paramedic with me, but most people don't have that luxury, so when the guy quits breathing, everybody is staring at you. We are expected to perform the miraculous, but with no fish, and only a couple of loaves. I might be able to dazzle physicians with my knowlege of difficult airways, but in most places, if I blow one, I'm out looking for another job. Steve's, and my point, is that we are the ones out there in the dark and rain, trying to figure out what to do. We are pushed out there with inadequate support in most every aspect of EMS that you can name, trying to make a difference, keeping in mind that a whole bunch of people are going to be second guessing what you did, doctors, lawyers, families, and some guy who has merely hung on longer than everybody else so gets to be " supervisor " , despite the fact that.....you have the most responsibility, with the least amount of education, for the least amount of money. What a bargain we are! magnetass sends Re: spell check omitted > > You know, I agree with most of what you said, but this statement worries me: > > " We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged with the most > responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are expected to be > damned near perfect in our judgements. " > > Whose fault is it that we receive the least amount of education? Last time > I looked education was readily available in this country to just about > anybody who really wants it. So what's keeping us from breaking out of the > " uneducated " mold? Could it be......ourselves? > > GG > > In a message dated 4/15/2004 8:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, > magnetass@... writes: > We recieve the least ammount of education, are charged > with the most responsibility, and paid the least ammount of money, but are > expected to be damned near perfect in our judgements. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.