Re: Unvaccinated son diagnosed with autism

October 11, 2002

Charlene,

There are different forms of autism & it can be brought on by different

factors; perhaps others on this list can contribute with information about

this as well...

But I do know of someone with 2 autistic children; the first vaccine injured,

the second injured by a vacuum extractor used at birth. Others have said the

antimony & arsenic used in all baby paraphenalia such as playpens,

mattresses, etc, caused their child's autism

(antimonyandarsenic ). Also amalgams & any other form of

mercury poisoning can cause autism. Toxins & fumes can come from so many

places & affect certain children although not others (at least not in the

same way).

My first son was absolutely, definitely, vaccine injured. There is no doubt

in my mind, from the reactions to the decline, from everything I've read,

etc. My other two children are not vaccinated. My 4.5 yr old is NT, although

a bit high strung, which he seems to be growing out of with time & patience.

The other is a little baby & my prayers are constantly with her.

To say vaccines " do not cause autism " is a very broad statement. I wouldn't

even be so bold as to say they ALWAYS cause autism, because I know that's not

true. It happens to BE true in my son's case though.

I am very sorry about the diagnosis of your 3rd son. I can understand your

heartbreak. But I do have to support the vaccine-autism theory as I know for

a fact vaccines poisoned our son. And so, so many parents I've met say the

same thing. We are not all wrong. It can be different for different children

though & there are other causes of autism & different kinds of autism which

I've heard discussed on different lists; hopefully someone can help more with

that information.

Many blessings to you,

Michele

October 11, 2002

Charlene,

I just wanted to offer you a shoulder, and let you know that its ok to feel

you've made a mistake. I have one child who I have thought may be vaccine

injured (he didn't develop autism until two days after vaccines were caught

up close to his third birthday), and one who was, on those days I can

actually admit it to myself, born the way he is.

I truly believe there are hundreds of causes for autism. I believe it is an

immune sensitivity that can be triggered into action by a variety of insults.

Try not to be too hard on yourself. You obviously love your children a

great deal, and have searched hard for ways to maximize your children's

potential. I have a feeling your children are in very capable hands whether

or not they are vaccine injured.

Take care, and try not to be too hard on yourself.

Liane Gentry Skye

<A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With Pictures</A>

" nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

October 11, 2002

In a message dated 10/11/02 12:41:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, PagacC@...

writes:

> Hello,

>

> Some of you know me but for everyone that doesn't here's a

> little background. My husband and I have four sons: Lukas is 8, Isaak

> is 7, Ezekiel is 3, and Malakhi is 4 months. Lukas and Isaak were both

> diagnosed with autism, after what I felt was an apparent adverse

> vaccine reaction. After their diagnosis I researched several theories

> on the cause of autism. The theory that made the most sense to me, and

> which I actively publicly advocated for was the vaccine - autism

> connection.

>

> In that I was convinced that my two oldest sons autism was a

> direct result of vaccination, I chose not to vaccinate my two youngest

> sons. Ezekiel is 3 years old and over the past months I have witnessed

> him disappear into a world of his own. On October 9, 2002 Ezekiel was

> diagnosed with autism by Rami A. Amit, M.D. a Pediatric Neurologist.

> Ezekiel is not vaccinated and has never received any vaccination. He

> has not been exposed to any toxin and he has been on a " nutritional

> therapy " diet since he was 3 months old. I followed his diet and

Is it possible that maybe you or your husband have high levels of mercury in

your systems and are passing it on to your children? Or maybe either one of

you have a bacteria or viral underlying problem and you are passing it on to

your children?? Just thoughts here.

If either one of you don't have high mercury in your systems then boy am i

confused here. I really thought that autism was because of mercury. But as

I write this I am thinking that either one of you could even be high in

copper and that could also cause problems. Please fill us in on these

things..do you have high mercury or copper or underlying bacteria or viral

problems? thank you, K

October 11, 2002

There are many different reasons besides vaccinations that can cause this in

children. i.e. environmental concerns, pesticides, amalgam fillings,

hydrocephalus, genetics to name just few . No offence to you what so ever, but

because your son has developed autism from another source does not make or prove

the vaccination theory is null and void. It also doesn't explain away the high

levels of mercury some children with autism have or the measles virus in the

guts and spinal fluid with in some children's bodies. So I am glad you are now

relieved of the responsibility of feeling guilt for your 2 other children's

autism, but it does not explain the theory of away INHO.

Good luck to you on your journey with Autism.

*I hope I didn't offend anyone with my comments but the line, I wrote to the

pharmaceutical companies apologizing made me stand up and take notice, you could

say.*

[ ] Unvaccinated son diagnosed with autism

Hello,

Some of you know me but for everyone that doesn't here's a

little background. My husband and I have four sons: Lukas is 8, Isaak

is 7, Ezekiel is 3, and Malakhi is 4 months. Lukas and Isaak were both

diagnosed with autism, after what I felt was an apparent adverse

vaccine reaction. After their diagnosis I researched several theories

on the cause of autism. The theory that made the most sense to me, and

which I actively publicly advocated for was the vaccine - autism

connection.

In that I was convinced that my two oldest sons autism was a

direct result of vaccination, I chose not to vaccinate my two youngest

sons. Ezekiel is 3 years old and over the past months I have witnessed

him disappear into a world of his own. On October 9, 2002 Ezekiel was

diagnosed with autism by Rami A. Amit, M.D. a Pediatric Neurologist.

Ezekiel is not vaccinated and has never received any vaccination. He

has not been exposed to any toxin and he has been on a " nutritional

therapy " diet since he was 3 months old. I followed his diet and

supplements exactly as I was told. He never had gluten until he was 18

months old. In holding to my values that honesty is the best policy I

must tell you that I now feel that vaccination does not cause autism.

If it did, Ezekiel most certainly would not be autistic since he never

received any immunizations.

Over the past few years I publicly blamed vaccines for the

autism in my sons. I even filled with the Vaccine Compensation Fund

and when that claim was denied I pursued a suit for thimersol/vaccine

injury. I honestly felt that the autism in my two older sons was

directly caused by their vaccinations. I now see how horribly wrong I

was. I cannot tell you the pure anguish I feel as a result of my third

unvaccinated son being diagnosed with autism, though in telling you

the truth, perhaps I may realize a small amount of redemption. I've

also sent letters formally apologizing to the pharmaceutical

companies. I was wrong. I truly thought that by not vaccinating

Ezekiel I would PROVE that vaccines cause autism. As it is, it appears

I proved the exact opposite.

Warm Regards,

Charlene Pagac

=======================================================

October 11, 2002

I second that!

> They put mercury in shots. They did it in the name of money. Even

> parents who don't have children with autism have a right to be

> angry. Heck, even people born 70 years ago have a right to be angry.

>

> Asthma, ADHD, allergies, sleep apnea, diabetes, autism, crohn's---

> these are the result of immature immune systems being forced to

> handle an inordinate amount of man-made and other toxins. These

> toxins live in our water, food, clothing, dirt...everyday products.

> In fact, a corporation is out there right now saying, " But we only

> put a little arsenic in our product. " They're not thinking that

> 50,000 other companies are saying the exact same thing. It all adds

> up. But for many it comes down to this: mercury and other immune-

> insulters being injected directly into the bloodstreams of millions

> of children has taken the world of disabilities to a whole new level.

> Without these shots, thousands of children would have had a chance.

> Including mine.

>

> For that, drug companies need no apology---they need a consequence.

>

October 11, 2002

Have you taken him back off of gluten? There can be

some protein-metabolism problems going on, possibly why

some have problems with gluten and casein, and why some

have shown such improvement with digestive enzymes.

If he was fine and normal, then you added gluten at

18 months of age, then by 3 he was regressing, maybe

remove the gluten and see what happens.

Best wishes to your family.

> Hello,

>

> Some of you know me but for everyone that doesn't here's a

> little background. My husband and I have four sons: Lukas is 8,

Isaak

> is 7, Ezekiel is 3, and Malakhi is 4 months. Lukas and Isaak were

both

> diagnosed with autism, after what I felt was an apparent adverse

> vaccine reaction. After their diagnosis I researched several

theories

> on the cause of autism. The theory that made the most sense to me,

and

> which I actively publicly advocated for was the vaccine - autism

> connection.

>

> In that I was convinced that my two oldest sons autism was a

> direct result of vaccination, I chose not to vaccinate my two

youngest

> sons. Ezekiel is 3 years old and over the past months I have

witnessed

> him disappear into a world of his own. On October 9, 2002 Ezekiel

was

> diagnosed with autism by Rami A. Amit, M.D. a Pediatric

Neurologist.

> Ezekiel is not vaccinated and has never received any vaccination. He

> has not been exposed to any toxin and he has been on a " nutritional

> therapy " diet since he was 3 months old. I followed his diet and

> supplements exactly as I was told. He never had gluten until he was

18

> months old. In holding to my values that honesty is the best policy

I

> must tell you that I now feel that vaccination does not cause

autism.

> If it did, Ezekiel most certainly would not be autistic since he

never

> received any immunizations.

>

> Over the past few years I publicly blamed vaccines for the

> autism in my sons. I even filled with the Vaccine Compensation Fund

> and when that claim was denied I pursued a suit for

thimersol/vaccine

> injury. I honestly felt that the autism in my two older sons was

> directly caused by their vaccinations. I now see how horribly wrong

I

> was. I cannot tell you the pure anguish I feel as a result of my

third

> unvaccinated son being diagnosed with autism, though in telling you

> the truth, perhaps I may realize a small amount of redemption. I've

> also sent letters formally apologizing to the pharmaceutical

> companies. I was wrong. I truly thought that by not vaccinating

> Ezekiel I would PROVE that vaccines cause autism. As it is, it

appears

> I proved the exact opposite.

>

> Warm Regards,

>

> Charlene Pagac

October 11, 2002

Charlene, In my opinion, there are multi-factoral causes in autism--

vaccine is just one piece of the puzzle. Obviously within your

family there is something else more powerful than vaccines that

brought about your children's autism... but I have to say that *I*

won't let the pharmaceutical companies off the hook yet.

W

> Hello,

>

> I truly thought that by not vaccinating

> Ezekiel I would PROVE that vaccines cause autism. As it is, it

appears I proved the exact opposite.

October 11, 2002

I don't think you have proven anything yet, and for your children's

sake I hope you will stop feeling bad and get on with appropriate

medical investigation to figure out what is wrong with them.

It may or may not be mercury. There are many possible sources of

mercury, vaccines being only one.

If you've been watching the hair tests go by on this list, you know

some have mercury, some don't, and it isn't easy to tell what is going

on with a particular kid until appropriate investigation is done.

Possibilities in your case:

Mercury from a non-vaccine source, thus putting the youngest at risk

if you don't figure it out,

genetic issue that is perfectly treatable if you figure out what it

is, but not otherwise,

other treatable condition,

genetic or other untreatable condition.

As you can see, most of the possibilities do involve improvements with

appropriate treatment which is easiest to figure out by understanding

WHY they are autistic.

Andy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

> Some of you know me but for everyone that doesn't here's a

> little background. My husband and I have four sons: Lukas is 8,

Isaak

> is 7, Ezekiel is 3, and Malakhi is 4 months. Lukas and Isaak were

both

> diagnosed with autism, after what I felt was an apparent adverse

> vaccine reaction. After their diagnosis I researched several

theories

> on the cause of autism. The theory that made the most sense to me,

and

> which I actively publicly advocated for was the vaccine - autism

> connection.

>

> In that I was convinced that my two oldest sons autism was a

> direct result of vaccination, I chose not to vaccinate my two

youngest

> sons. Ezekiel is 3 years old and over the past months I have

witnessed

> him disappear into a world of his own. On October 9, 2002 Ezekiel

was

> diagnosed with autism by Rami A. Amit, M.D. a Pediatric

Neurologist.

> Ezekiel is not vaccinated and has never received any vaccination. He

> has not been exposed to any toxin and he has been on a " nutritional

> therapy " diet since he was 3 months old. I followed his diet and

> supplements exactly as I was told. He never had gluten until he was

18

> months old. In holding to my values that honesty is the best policy

I

> must tell you that I now feel that vaccination does not cause

autism.

> If it did, Ezekiel most certainly would not be autistic since he

never

> received any immunizations.

>

> Over the past few years I publicly blamed vaccines for the

> autism in my sons. I even filled with the Vaccine Compensation Fund

> and when that claim was denied I pursued a suit for

thimersol/vaccine

> injury. I honestly felt that the autism in my two older sons was

> directly caused by their vaccinations. I now see how horribly wrong

I

> was. I cannot tell you the pure anguish I feel as a result of my

third

> unvaccinated son being diagnosed with autism, though in telling you

> the truth, perhaps I may realize a small amount of redemption. I've

> also sent letters formally apologizing to the pharmaceutical

> companies. I was wrong. I truly thought that by not vaccinating

> Ezekiel I would PROVE that vaccines cause autism. As it is, it

appears

> I proved the exact opposite.

>

> Warm Reg

October 11, 2002

Hi Charlene,

Are you sure that your son was not given the HepB while in the newborn

nursery?My was .....without my authorization. Get his birth records in their

entirety from the hospital. I personally think it's the Hep B at birth that is

causing all the problems.

R

October 11, 2002

Charlene,

I'm truly sorry for your dismay and sympathize with you. However, please

don't assume that some forms of autism isn't caused by vaccinations. My son

is a twin and I watched his decline after vaccinations. It was very, very

obvious. There are many theories on autism; genetic, environmental toxins,

etc.. Your children could very well fall into any one of those. There is

however too many reports of normally developing children declining after

vaccines and now studies that lead back to vaccinated induced autism.

In your disillusionment, please be mindful that although none of us can be

absolutely sure where our child or children contracted this disorder, we are

here to support each other in every way possible in finding solutions to

help our children be the best that they can be and none of us are in a

position to rule out any one form of contraction just because it doesn't

apply to our child.

Blessings to you and your family during a very difficult time.

Sheila

>From: " Charlene M. Pagac " <PagacC@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Unvaccinated son diagnosed with autism

>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:48:39 -0000

>

>Hello,

>

> This is my first post to the group so I'll give a little

>background about my family. My husband and I have four sons: Lukas is

>8, Isaak is 7, Ezekiel is 3, and Malakhi is 4 months. Lukas and Isaak

>were both diagnosed with autism, after what I felt was an apparent

>adverse vaccine reaction. After their diagnosis I researched several

>theories on the cause of autism. The theory that made the most sense

>to me, and which I actively publicly advocated for was the vaccine -

>autism connection.

>

> In that I was convinced that my two oldest sons autism was a

>direct result of vaccination, I chose not to vaccinate my two youngest

>sons. Ezekiel is 3 years old and over the past months I have witnessed

>him disappear into a world of his own. On October 9, 2002 Ezekiel was

>diagnosed with autism by Rami A. Amit, M.D. a Pediatric Neurologist.

>Ezekiel is not vaccinated and has never received any vaccination. He

>has not been exposed to any toxin and he has been on a " nutritional

>therapy " diet since he was 3 months old. I followed his diet and

>supplements exactly as I was told. He never had gluten until he was 18

>months old. In holding to my values that honesty is the best policy I

>must tell you that I now feel that vaccination does not cause autism.

>If it did, Ezekiel most certainly would not be autistic since he never

>received any immunizations.

>

> Over the past few years I publicly blamed vaccines for the

>autism in my sons. I even filled with the Vaccine Compensation Fund

>and when that claim was denied I pursued a suit for thimersol/vaccine

>injury. I honestly felt that the autism in my two older sons was

>directly caused by their vaccinations. I now see how horribly wrong I

>was. I cannot tell you the pure anguish I feel as a result of my third

>unvaccinated son being diagnosed with autism, though in telling you

>the truth, perhaps I may realize a small amount of redemption. I've

>also sent letters formally apologizing to the pharmaceutical

>companies. I was wrong. I truly thought that by not vaccinating

>Ezekiel I would PROVE that vaccines cause autism. As it is, it appears

>I proved the exact opposite.

>

>Warm Regards,

>

>Charlene Pagac

>

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

October 11, 2002

>I've

>also sent letters formally apologizing to the pharmaceutical

>companies.

They put mercury in shots. They did it in the name of money. Even

parents who don't have children with autism have a right to be

angry. Heck, even people born 70 years ago have a right to be angry.

Asthma, ADHD, allergies, sleep apnea, diabetes, autism, crohn's---

these are the result of immature immune systems being forced to

handle an inordinate amount of man-made and other toxins. These

toxins live in our water, food, clothing, dirt...everyday products.

In fact, a corporation is out there right now saying, " But we only

put a little arsenic in our product. " They're not thinking that

50,000 other companies are saying the exact same thing. It all adds

up. But for many it comes down to this: mercury and other immune-

insulters being injected directly into the bloodstreams of millions

of children has taken the world of disabilities to a whole new level.

Without these shots, thousands of children would have had a chance.

Including mine.

For that, drug companies need no apology---they need a consequence.

> Hello,

>

> Some of you know me but for everyone that doesn't here's a

> little background. My husband and I have four sons: Lukas is 8,

Isaak

> is 7, Ezekiel is 3, and Malakhi is 4 months. Lukas and Isaak were

both

> diagnosed with autism, after what I felt was an apparent adverse

> vaccine reaction. After their diagnosis I researched several

theories

> on the cause of autism. The theory that made the most sense to me,

and

> which I actively publicly advocated for was the vaccine - autism

> connection.

>

> In that I was convinced that my two oldest sons autism was a

> direct result of vaccination, I chose not to vaccinate my two

youngest

> sons. Ezekiel is 3 years old and over the past months I have

witnessed

> him disappear into a world of his own. On October 9, 2002 Ezekiel

was

> diagnosed with autism by Rami A. Amit, M.D. a Pediatric

Neurologist.

> Ezekiel is not vaccinated and has never received any vaccination. He

> has not been exposed to any toxin and he has been on a " nutritional

> therapy " diet since he was 3 months old. I followed his diet and

> supplements exactly as I was told. He never had gluten until he was

18

> months old. In holding to my values that honesty is the best policy

I

> must tell you that I now feel that vaccination does not cause

autism.

> If it did, Ezekiel most certainly would not be autistic since he

never

> received any immunizations.

>

> Over the past few years I publicly blamed vaccines for the

> autism in my sons. I even filled with the Vaccine Compensation Fund

> and when that claim was denied I pursued a suit for

thimersol/vaccine

> injury. I honestly felt that the autism in my two older sons was

> directly caused by their vaccinations. I now see how horribly wrong

I

> was. I cannot tell you the pure anguish I feel as a result of my

third

> unvaccinated son being diagnosed with autism, though in telling you

> the truth, perhaps I may realize a small amount of redemption. I've

> also sent letters formally apologizing to the pharmaceutical

> companies. I was wrong. I truly thought that by not vaccinating

> Ezekiel I would PROVE that vaccines cause autism. As it is, it

appears

> I proved the exact opposite.

>

> Warm Regards,

>

> Charlene Pagac

October 11, 2002

Amen on that one! Just because one of the kids didn't get vaccinated and did

get autism in no way absolves the pharmaceutical companies. And sending them

letters to that effect gives them undeserved ammunition!

Terri

Remember the movie, Wag The Dog?

Wake up folks, we're being wagged.

Terri (2002)

[ ] Re: Unvaccinated son diagnosed with autism

>

> >I've

> >also sent letters formally apologizing to the pharmaceutical

> >companies.