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Why would we move into the reform being proposed in the House when it completely

screws up an already limping system.  These people are not interested in reform,

but control. They have not attacked any of the things that are driving

healthcare costs out of control.   Also the framers of the constitution never

intended to promote the general welfare by conferring additional " rights " .

Brad Thorne, P.T.

Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager

Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 10:19 PM

 

Dick,

The US Constitution, in it's preamble, states " We the People....in order to

form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,

provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,... " and Article 1,

Section 8: " The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties,

imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and

general welfare of the United States... "

So I would propose that in order to promote the general welfare of it's

citizens, one might stretch to the conclusion that providing health care

services to all it's citizens just might promote their general welfare. And in

order to from a more perfect health care system, that periodic reform might be

necessary. And the Constitution provides for our government the ability to levy

taxes to pay for such benefits.

Both sides of this debate will continue to exert their beliefs, and

unfortunately few will be persuaded to change their stance. Will we ever see

meaningful Health Care Reform? Or will we recreate the inequities that previous

abbreviated attempts have delivered? How many posts have been made to this

listserve over the past few years complaining about therapy caps, coding

inequities, denials of service, patients failing to show when their insurance

runs out, etc? Would anyone disagree that our current Health Care System is less

than perfect? Why can't we as a nation focus on trying to form that perfect

health care system, that would adress the general welfare of it's citizens?

Debate yes, but work constructively to evolve our current dysfunctional system

into a better one.

Not sure if our founding fathers put them in order of priority or not, but in

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the bullet point about

" general welfare " is first while " establish post offices " is seventh. Defining

general welfare is left more up to interpretation than post offices though. go

figure.

W. , PT, MS

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

PTA Program Chair, Baker College of Park

Therapeutics

Chair, Michigan Board of Physical Therapy

david.perry@ baker.edu

" And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in

your years. "

Abraham Lincoln

" A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. "

Albert Einstein

____________ _________ _________ __

From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyerComcast (DOT) net>

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:25:08 PM

Subject: RE: Healthcare Reform

Rick et al -

In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more votes

or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

different from those others.

Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny. Power

is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties of

the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties from

further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

environment.

The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

consent of the governed... "

Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the God-given

rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America. To

*secure the rights of the individuals* . So, I have to ask, What is a

primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

exercise their liberties?

Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

legitimate role of our government.

Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying out

of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and talks

but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

difficult exercises, and distance walked.

This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

clamor, and asking:

" 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

Respectfully,

Dick Hillyer, DPT

W. Hillyer,PT,DPT, MBA,MSM

Lee Therapist Group, LLC

Hillyer Consulting

Cape Coral, FL 33914

_____

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@ yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Healthcare Reform

Hello all, hope this finds you well,

I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry. I

am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

org/moyers/journal/ 07312009/ watch.html

Sincerely,

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt. com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mr. ,

The general welfare clause (and the interstate commerce clause as well, but

that's for another day's conversation) have certainly been used to rationalize

much mischief.

It was clearly understood at our founding that promoting the general welfare was

accomplished first and most importantly by protecting natural rights, and that

the most effective destroyer of those rights would always be government. Any

sane analysis of constitutional priorities then ought to prevent any effort by

the federal government to promote welfare that also interferes with natural

rights. Rights ALWAYS come first. And besides, even if one feels comfortable

turning the constitution upside down (no one should though many do) it is

difficult to rationalize altruistic motives behind these government public

welfare programs when so many gain so handsomely from them while others suffer

so under them. Bottom line: There is nothing reasonable or good to be found in

“stretching” constitutional principles.

There is probably no better proof of the dangers of rationalizing away natural

rights than the federal government's turning control of our money supply over to

private individuals—an incredible plan that has destroyed our financial

stability and made us a debtor nation of a proportion difficult to quantify and

with a nearly valueless currency behind that debt. (Nobody has been able to

properly calculate the number of future generations forced now to dedicate their

lives to paying our current debt, and we are quite unbelievably causing that

debt to grow still higher!) Nevertheless I would venture a guess that

government-sponsored and government-enforced medical care is a close second in

negative effects. Its long litany of negatives has been amply reported here and

elsewhere—a very short list includes forced utilization and forced

non-utilization, raging medical inflation, a frightening number of medical

care-induced illnesses, a reluctance on the part of medical providers to face

the realities of our society's worsening health, and (a related fact) providers'

recalcitrant attitude about holding on to their lucrative detection and

treatment programs rather than pursuing actual health promotion and disease

prevention.

With that in mind, look at our constitution, and in there find the federal

government's authority to prevent you and I, natural men and citizens of this

republic, by the threat of violence (or actual violence) from even opting out of

the mess.

Dave Milano, PT, Rehabilitation Director

Laurel Health System

________________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of DAVID

PERRY [dperrypt@...]

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:19 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

Dick,

The US Constitution, in it's preamble, states " We the People....in order to

form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,

provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,... " and Article 1,

Section 8: " The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties,

imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and

general welfare of the United States... "

So I would propose that in order to promote the general welfare of it's

citizens, one might stretch to the conclusion that providing health care

services to all it's citizens just might promote their general welfare. And in

order to from a more perfect health care system, that periodic reform might be

necessary. And the Constitution provides for our government the ability to levy

taxes to pay for such benefits.

Both sides of this debate will continue to exert their beliefs, and

unfortunately few will be persuaded to change their stance. Will we ever see

meaningful Health Care Reform? Or will we recreate the inequities that previous

abbreviated attempts have delivered? How many posts have been made to this

listserve over the past few years complaining about therapy caps, coding

inequities, denials of service, patients failing to show when their insurance

runs out, etc? Would anyone disagree that our current Health Care System is less

than perfect? Why can't we as a nation focus on trying to form that perfect

health care system, that would adress the general welfare of it's citizens?

Debate yes, but work constructively to evolve our current dysfunctional system

into a better one.

Not sure if our founding fathers put them in order of priority or not, but in

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the bullet point about

" general welfare " is first while " establish post offices " is seventh. Defining

general welfare is left more up to interpretation than post offices though. go

figure.

W. , PT, MS

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

PTA Program Chair, Baker College of Park

Therapeutics

Chair, Michigan Board of Physical Therapy

david.perry@...<mailto:david.perry%40baker.edu>

" And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in

your years. "

Abraham Lincoln

" A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. "

Albert Einstein

________________________________

From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@...<mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net>>

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:25:08 PM

Subject: RE: Healthcare Reform

Rick et al -

In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more votes

or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

different from those others.

Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny. Power

is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties of

the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties from

further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

environment.

The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

consent of the governed... "

Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the God-given

rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America. To

*secure the rights of the individuals* . So, I have to ask, What is a

primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

exercise their liberties?

Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

legitimate role of our government.

Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying out

of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and talks

but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

difficult exercises, and distance walked.

This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

clamor, and asking:

" 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

Respectfully,

Dick Hillyer, DPT

W. Hillyer,PT,DPT, MBA,MSM

Lee Therapist Group, LLC

Hillyer Consulting

Cape Coral, FL 33914

_____

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Healthcare Reform

Hello all, hope this finds you well,

I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry. I

am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

org/moyers/journal/ 07312009/ watch.html

Sincerely,

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt. com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mr. ,

The general welfare clause (and the interstate commerce clause as well, but

that's for another day's conversation) have certainly been used to rationalize

much mischief.

It was clearly understood at our founding that promoting the general welfare was

accomplished first and most importantly by protecting natural rights, and that

the most effective destroyer of those rights would always be government. Any

sane analysis of constitutional priorities then ought to prevent any effort by

the federal government to promote welfare that also interferes with natural

rights. Rights ALWAYS come first. And besides, even if one feels comfortable

turning the constitution upside down (no one should though many do) it is

difficult to rationalize altruistic motives behind these government public

welfare programs when so many gain so handsomely from them while others suffer

so under them. Bottom line: There is nothing reasonable or good to be found in

“stretching” constitutional principles.

There is probably no better proof of the dangers of rationalizing away natural

rights than the federal government's turning control of our money supply over to

private individuals—an incredible plan that has destroyed our financial

stability and made us a debtor nation of a proportion difficult to quantify and

with a nearly valueless currency behind that debt. (Nobody has been able to

properly calculate the number of future generations forced now to dedicate their

lives to paying our current debt, and we are quite unbelievably causing that

debt to grow still higher!) Nevertheless I would venture a guess that

government-sponsored and government-enforced medical care is a close second in

negative effects. Its long litany of negatives has been amply reported here and

elsewhere—a very short list includes forced utilization and forced

non-utilization, raging medical inflation, a frightening number of medical

care-induced illnesses, a reluctance on the part of medical providers to face

the realities of our society's worsening health, and (a related fact) providers'

recalcitrant attitude about holding on to their lucrative detection and

treatment programs rather than pursuing actual health promotion and disease

prevention.

With that in mind, look at our constitution, and in there find the federal

government's authority to prevent you and I, natural men and citizens of this

republic, by the threat of violence (or actual violence) from even opting out of

the mess.

Dave Milano, PT, Rehabilitation Director

Laurel Health System

________________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of DAVID

PERRY [dperrypt@...]

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:19 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

Dick,

The US Constitution, in it's preamble, states " We the People....in order to

form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,

provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,... " and Article 1,

Section 8: " The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties,

imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and

general welfare of the United States... "

So I would propose that in order to promote the general welfare of it's

citizens, one might stretch to the conclusion that providing health care

services to all it's citizens just might promote their general welfare. And in

order to from a more perfect health care system, that periodic reform might be

necessary. And the Constitution provides for our government the ability to levy

taxes to pay for such benefits.

Both sides of this debate will continue to exert their beliefs, and

unfortunately few will be persuaded to change their stance. Will we ever see

meaningful Health Care Reform? Or will we recreate the inequities that previous

abbreviated attempts have delivered? How many posts have been made to this

listserve over the past few years complaining about therapy caps, coding

inequities, denials of service, patients failing to show when their insurance

runs out, etc? Would anyone disagree that our current Health Care System is less

than perfect? Why can't we as a nation focus on trying to form that perfect

health care system, that would adress the general welfare of it's citizens?

Debate yes, but work constructively to evolve our current dysfunctional system

into a better one.

Not sure if our founding fathers put them in order of priority or not, but in

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the bullet point about

" general welfare " is first while " establish post offices " is seventh. Defining

general welfare is left more up to interpretation than post offices though. go

figure.

W. , PT, MS

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

PTA Program Chair, Baker College of Park

Therapeutics

Chair, Michigan Board of Physical Therapy

david.perry@...<mailto:david.perry%40baker.edu>

" And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in

your years. "

Abraham Lincoln

" A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. "

Albert Einstein

________________________________

From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@...<mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net>>

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:25:08 PM

Subject: RE: Healthcare Reform

Rick et al -

In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more votes

or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

different from those others.

Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny. Power

is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties of

the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties from

further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

environment.

The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

consent of the governed... "

Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the God-given

rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America. To

*secure the rights of the individuals* . So, I have to ask, What is a

primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

exercise their liberties?

Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

legitimate role of our government.

Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying out

of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and talks

but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

difficult exercises, and distance walked.

This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

clamor, and asking:

" 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

Respectfully,

Dick Hillyer, DPT

W. Hillyer,PT,DPT, MBA,MSM

Lee Therapist Group, LLC

Hillyer Consulting

Cape Coral, FL 33914

_____

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Healthcare Reform

Hello all, hope this finds you well,

I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry. I

am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

org/moyers/journal/ 07312009/ watch.html

Sincerely,

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt. com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mr. ,

The general welfare clause (and the interstate commerce clause as well, but

that's for another day's conversation) have certainly been used to rationalize

much mischief.

It was clearly understood at our founding that promoting the general welfare was

accomplished first and most importantly by protecting natural rights, and that

the most effective destroyer of those rights would always be government. Any

sane analysis of constitutional priorities then ought to prevent any effort by

the federal government to promote welfare that also interferes with natural

rights. Rights ALWAYS come first. And besides, even if one feels comfortable

turning the constitution upside down (no one should though many do) it is

difficult to rationalize altruistic motives behind these government public

welfare programs when so many gain so handsomely from them while others suffer

so under them. Bottom line: There is nothing reasonable or good to be found in

“stretching” constitutional principles.

There is probably no better proof of the dangers of rationalizing away natural

rights than the federal government's turning control of our money supply over to

private individuals—an incredible plan that has destroyed our financial

stability and made us a debtor nation of a proportion difficult to quantify and

with a nearly valueless currency behind that debt. (Nobody has been able to

properly calculate the number of future generations forced now to dedicate their

lives to paying our current debt, and we are quite unbelievably causing that

debt to grow still higher!) Nevertheless I would venture a guess that

government-sponsored and government-enforced medical care is a close second in

negative effects. Its long litany of negatives has been amply reported here and

elsewhere—a very short list includes forced utilization and forced

non-utilization, raging medical inflation, a frightening number of medical

care-induced illnesses, a reluctance on the part of medical providers to face

the realities of our society's worsening health, and (a related fact) providers'

recalcitrant attitude about holding on to their lucrative detection and

treatment programs rather than pursuing actual health promotion and disease

prevention.

With that in mind, look at our constitution, and in there find the federal

government's authority to prevent you and I, natural men and citizens of this

republic, by the threat of violence (or actual violence) from even opting out of

the mess.

Dave Milano, PT, Rehabilitation Director

Laurel Health System

________________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of DAVID

PERRY [dperrypt@...]

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:19 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

Dick,

The US Constitution, in it's preamble, states " We the People....in order to

form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,

provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,... " and Article 1,

Section 8: " The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties,

imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and

general welfare of the United States... "

So I would propose that in order to promote the general welfare of it's

citizens, one might stretch to the conclusion that providing health care

services to all it's citizens just might promote their general welfare. And in

order to from a more perfect health care system, that periodic reform might be

necessary. And the Constitution provides for our government the ability to levy

taxes to pay for such benefits.

Both sides of this debate will continue to exert their beliefs, and

unfortunately few will be persuaded to change their stance. Will we ever see

meaningful Health Care Reform? Or will we recreate the inequities that previous

abbreviated attempts have delivered? How many posts have been made to this

listserve over the past few years complaining about therapy caps, coding

inequities, denials of service, patients failing to show when their insurance

runs out, etc? Would anyone disagree that our current Health Care System is less

than perfect? Why can't we as a nation focus on trying to form that perfect

health care system, that would adress the general welfare of it's citizens?

Debate yes, but work constructively to evolve our current dysfunctional system

into a better one.

Not sure if our founding fathers put them in order of priority or not, but in

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the bullet point about

" general welfare " is first while " establish post offices " is seventh. Defining

general welfare is left more up to interpretation than post offices though. go

figure.

W. , PT, MS

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

PTA Program Chair, Baker College of Park

Therapeutics

Chair, Michigan Board of Physical Therapy

david.perry@...<mailto:david.perry%40baker.edu>

" And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in

your years. "

Abraham Lincoln

" A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. "

Albert Einstein

________________________________

From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@...<mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net>>

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:25:08 PM

Subject: RE: Healthcare Reform

Rick et al -

In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more votes

or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

different from those others.

Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny. Power

is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties of

the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties from

further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

environment.

The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

consent of the governed... "

Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the God-given

rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America. To

*secure the rights of the individuals* . So, I have to ask, What is a

primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

exercise their liberties?

Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

legitimate role of our government.

Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying out

of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and talks

but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

difficult exercises, and distance walked.

This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

clamor, and asking:

" 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

Respectfully,

Dick Hillyer, DPT

W. Hillyer,PT,DPT, MBA,MSM

Lee Therapist Group, LLC

Hillyer Consulting

Cape Coral, FL 33914

_____

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Healthcare Reform

Hello all, hope this finds you well,

I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry. I

am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

org/moyers/journal/ 07312009/ watch.html

Sincerely,

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt. com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding this: " The current economic conditions exemplify the effect of

laissez-faire policies. "

It has always been the government's way to first interfere with free-market

economics, and then when the inevitable mess appears, assume more power and and

take more money to fix it. To look at the many thousands of government laws,

regulations, rules, inspections, audits, taxes, permits, fines, and fees

associated with doing business in America and call it laissez-faire is simply

not right.

And regarding this " ...the framers of the constitution never intended to promote

the general welfare by conferring additional 'rights'. "

Amen! In fact, the founders never thought they or anyone ever had any power to

confer any rights at all. Not in the beginning, not later. Rights, they knew,

are " endowed by our Creator " and government's job is to protect those natural

rights. That was the very reason for America's being!

Dave Milano, PT, Rehabilitation Director

Laurel Health System

________________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of Cleve

A.A. phs [cleve1@...]

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:23 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

I personally believe ONE of the roles of government is to see to the well

being of ALL its citizens. The current economic conditions exemplify the

effect of laissez-faire policies.

The health care debate is about how to make the current system better,

lowering costs and giving everyone a reasonable option for quality health

insurance. I just don't understand all the " noise " about socialism and

patriotism. These noisemakers need to engage in civil discourse to help make

life better for ALL Americans.

--

Cleve J., PT

Change what you cannot accept.

The less you know, the more you believe.

Bono

" Common sense is not so common. " -- Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding this: " The current economic conditions exemplify the effect of

laissez-faire policies. "

It has always been the government's way to first interfere with free-market

economics, and then when the inevitable mess appears, assume more power and and

take more money to fix it. To look at the many thousands of government laws,

regulations, rules, inspections, audits, taxes, permits, fines, and fees

associated with doing business in America and call it laissez-faire is simply

not right.

And regarding this " ...the framers of the constitution never intended to promote

the general welfare by conferring additional 'rights'. "

Amen! In fact, the founders never thought they or anyone ever had any power to

confer any rights at all. Not in the beginning, not later. Rights, they knew,

are " endowed by our Creator " and government's job is to protect those natural

rights. That was the very reason for America's being!

Dave Milano, PT, Rehabilitation Director

Laurel Health System

________________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of Cleve

A.A. phs [cleve1@...]

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:23 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

I personally believe ONE of the roles of government is to see to the well

being of ALL its citizens. The current economic conditions exemplify the

effect of laissez-faire policies.

The health care debate is about how to make the current system better,

lowering costs and giving everyone a reasonable option for quality health

insurance. I just don't understand all the " noise " about socialism and

patriotism. These noisemakers need to engage in civil discourse to help make

life better for ALL Americans.

--

Cleve J., PT

Change what you cannot accept.

The less you know, the more you believe.

Bono

" Common sense is not so common. " -- Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding this: " The current economic conditions exemplify the effect of

laissez-faire policies. "

It has always been the government's way to first interfere with free-market

economics, and then when the inevitable mess appears, assume more power and and

take more money to fix it. To look at the many thousands of government laws,

regulations, rules, inspections, audits, taxes, permits, fines, and fees

associated with doing business in America and call it laissez-faire is simply

not right.

And regarding this " ...the framers of the constitution never intended to promote

the general welfare by conferring additional 'rights'. "

Amen! In fact, the founders never thought they or anyone ever had any power to

confer any rights at all. Not in the beginning, not later. Rights, they knew,

are " endowed by our Creator " and government's job is to protect those natural

rights. That was the very reason for America's being!

Dave Milano, PT, Rehabilitation Director

Laurel Health System

________________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of Cleve

A.A. phs [cleve1@...]

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:23 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

I personally believe ONE of the roles of government is to see to the well

being of ALL its citizens. The current economic conditions exemplify the

effect of laissez-faire policies.

The health care debate is about how to make the current system better,

lowering costs and giving everyone a reasonable option for quality health

insurance. I just don't understand all the " noise " about socialism and

patriotism. These noisemakers need to engage in civil discourse to help make

life better for ALL Americans.

--

Cleve J., PT

Change what you cannot accept.

The less you know, the more you believe.

Bono

" Common sense is not so common. " -- Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Current proposed Medicare changes.

1. The Medicare system will cut reimbursement 21% in 2010.

2. Medicare will set a firm cap on physical therapy reimbursement at

$1700 per year.

These proposes are necessary to extend the life of the Medicare program

which will be bankrupt/underfunded by 2020.

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:43 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

Dick,

I appreciate the conversation, you know I always value your insight and

input.

As amazing a document as the Declaration of Independence is and was it is

not without it's flaws and inconsistencies. Take, for example, the line " all

men are created equal " , sounds great, but, in 1776, the definition of " all

men " was quite narrow and included only heterosexual, white males, mostly of

English descent, it certainly did not include blacks, American Indians, or

females of any race. It has taken centuries of struggle and yes, government

intervention, in the form of amendments to that great constitution to ensure

ALL men (and women) are treated as equals and many would argue that we are

still a long way from achieving true equality.

Given your position on the limited role government should play in our lives,

and I agree with you on this issue in many aspects, I would value your

opinion on the Medicare program. Do you feel Medicare has been successful in

providing health care options for the seniors of this country or do you feel

we would all be better off, and the system would work better, if those over

65 were forced to fend for themselves in the open market when purchasing

health care insurance? Thanks again, Dick, and the rest of the posters here,

for the debate.

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt.com

>

> Rick et al -

>

> In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

> confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more

votes

> or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

> done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

> not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

> different from those others.

>

> Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

> recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny.

Power

> is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

> has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

> whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties

of

> the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties

from

> further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

>

> Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

> Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

> liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

> liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

> environment.

>

> The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

> Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

> to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed

by

> their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

> Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

> Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

> consent of the governed... "

>

> Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the

God-given

> rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America.

To

> *secure the rights of the individuals*. So, I have to ask, What is a

> primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

> exercise their liberties?

>

> Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

> insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

> a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

> citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

> legitimate role of our government.

>

> Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

> Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying

out

> of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

> reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and

talks

> but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

> crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

> their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

> difficult exercises, and distance walked.

>

> This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

> clamor, and asking:

> " 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

> individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

>

> Respectfully,

> Dick Hillyer, DPT

>

>

>

>

> W. Hillyer,PT,DPT,MBA,MSM

> Lee Therapist Group, LLC

> Hillyer Consulting

> Cape Coral, FL 33914

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

Behalf

> Of s

> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

> To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Healthcare Reform

>

>

>

>

> Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

> vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

> of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

> and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

> time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry.

I

> am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

>

> http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

>

> Sincerely,

>

> E. s, PT, DPT

> Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> www.douglasspt.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Current proposed Medicare changes.

1. The Medicare system will cut reimbursement 21% in 2010.

2. Medicare will set a firm cap on physical therapy reimbursement at

$1700 per year.

These proposes are necessary to extend the life of the Medicare program

which will be bankrupt/underfunded by 2020.

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:43 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

Dick,

I appreciate the conversation, you know I always value your insight and

input.

As amazing a document as the Declaration of Independence is and was it is

not without it's flaws and inconsistencies. Take, for example, the line " all

men are created equal " , sounds great, but, in 1776, the definition of " all

men " was quite narrow and included only heterosexual, white males, mostly of

English descent, it certainly did not include blacks, American Indians, or

females of any race. It has taken centuries of struggle and yes, government

intervention, in the form of amendments to that great constitution to ensure

ALL men (and women) are treated as equals and many would argue that we are

still a long way from achieving true equality.

Given your position on the limited role government should play in our lives,

and I agree with you on this issue in many aspects, I would value your

opinion on the Medicare program. Do you feel Medicare has been successful in

providing health care options for the seniors of this country or do you feel

we would all be better off, and the system would work better, if those over

65 were forced to fend for themselves in the open market when purchasing

health care insurance? Thanks again, Dick, and the rest of the posters here,

for the debate.

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt.com

>

> Rick et al -

>

> In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

> confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more

votes

> or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

> done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

> not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

> different from those others.

>

> Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

> recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny.

Power

> is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

> has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

> whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties

of

> the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties

from

> further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

>

> Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

> Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

> liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

> liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

> environment.

>

> The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

> Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

> to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed

by

> their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

> Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

> Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

> consent of the governed... "

>

> Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the

God-given

> rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America.

To

> *secure the rights of the individuals*. So, I have to ask, What is a

> primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

> exercise their liberties?

>

> Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

> insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

> a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

> citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

> legitimate role of our government.

>

> Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

> Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying

out

> of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

> reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and

talks

> but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

> crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

> their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

> difficult exercises, and distance walked.

>

> This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

> clamor, and asking:

> " 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

> individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

>

> Respectfully,

> Dick Hillyer, DPT

>

>

>

>

> W. Hillyer,PT,DPT,MBA,MSM

> Lee Therapist Group, LLC

> Hillyer Consulting

> Cape Coral, FL 33914

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

Behalf

> Of s

> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

> To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Healthcare Reform

>

>

>

>

> Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

> vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

> of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

> and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

> time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry.

I

> am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

>

> http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

>

> Sincerely,

>

> E. s, PT, DPT

> Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> www.douglasspt.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Current proposed Medicare changes.

1. The Medicare system will cut reimbursement 21% in 2010.

2. Medicare will set a firm cap on physical therapy reimbursement at

$1700 per year.

These proposes are necessary to extend the life of the Medicare program

which will be bankrupt/underfunded by 2020.

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:43 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

Dick,

I appreciate the conversation, you know I always value your insight and

input.

As amazing a document as the Declaration of Independence is and was it is

not without it's flaws and inconsistencies. Take, for example, the line " all

men are created equal " , sounds great, but, in 1776, the definition of " all

men " was quite narrow and included only heterosexual, white males, mostly of

English descent, it certainly did not include blacks, American Indians, or

females of any race. It has taken centuries of struggle and yes, government

intervention, in the form of amendments to that great constitution to ensure

ALL men (and women) are treated as equals and many would argue that we are

still a long way from achieving true equality.

Given your position on the limited role government should play in our lives,

and I agree with you on this issue in many aspects, I would value your

opinion on the Medicare program. Do you feel Medicare has been successful in

providing health care options for the seniors of this country or do you feel

we would all be better off, and the system would work better, if those over

65 were forced to fend for themselves in the open market when purchasing

health care insurance? Thanks again, Dick, and the rest of the posters here,

for the debate.

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt.com

>

> Rick et al -

>

> In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

> confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more

votes

> or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

> done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

> not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

> different from those others.

>

> Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

> recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny.

Power

> is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

> has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

> whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties

of

> the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties

from

> further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

>

> Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

> Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

> liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

> liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

> environment.

>

> The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

> Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

> to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed

by

> their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

> Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

> Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

> consent of the governed... "

>

> Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the

God-given

> rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America.

To

> *secure the rights of the individuals*. So, I have to ask, What is a

> primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

> exercise their liberties?

>

> Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

> insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

> a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

> citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

> legitimate role of our government.

>

> Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

> Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying

out

> of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

> reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and

talks

> but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

> crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

> their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

> difficult exercises, and distance walked.

>

> This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

> clamor, and asking:

> " 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

> individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

>

> Respectfully,

> Dick Hillyer, DPT

>

>

>

>

> W. Hillyer,PT,DPT,MBA,MSM

> Lee Therapist Group, LLC

> Hillyer Consulting

> Cape Coral, FL 33914

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

Behalf

> Of s

> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

> To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Healthcare Reform

>

>

>

>

> Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

> vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

> of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

> and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

> time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry.

I

> am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

>

> http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

>

> Sincerely,

>

> E. s, PT, DPT

> Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> www.douglasspt.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I follow your logic, then the government should outlaw cigarettes, fatty

foods and sugar. They should restrict unnecessary surgeries, medication and

drug abuse. People need to be responsible for their own health care the

government.

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of Cleve A.A. phs

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:23 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

I personally believe ONE of the roles of government is to see to the well

being of ALL its citizens. The current economic conditions exemplify the

effect of laissez-faire policies.

The health care debate is about how to make the current system better,

lowering costs and giving everyone a reasonable option for quality health

insurance. I just don't understand all the " noise " about socialism and

patriotism. These noisemakers need to engage in civil discourse to help make

life better for ALL Americans.

--

Cleve J., PT

Change what you cannot accept.

The less you know, the more you believe.

Bono

" Common sense is not so common. " -- Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I follow your logic, then the government should outlaw cigarettes, fatty

foods and sugar. They should restrict unnecessary surgeries, medication and

drug abuse. People need to be responsible for their own health care the

government.

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of Cleve A.A. phs

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:23 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

I personally believe ONE of the roles of government is to see to the well

being of ALL its citizens. The current economic conditions exemplify the

effect of laissez-faire policies.

The health care debate is about how to make the current system better,

lowering costs and giving everyone a reasonable option for quality health

insurance. I just don't understand all the " noise " about socialism and

patriotism. These noisemakers need to engage in civil discourse to help make

life better for ALL Americans.

--

Cleve J., PT

Change what you cannot accept.

The less you know, the more you believe.

Bono

" Common sense is not so common. " -- Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I follow your logic, then the government should outlaw cigarettes, fatty

foods and sugar. They should restrict unnecessary surgeries, medication and

drug abuse. People need to be responsible for their own health care the

government.

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of Cleve A.A. phs

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:23 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

I personally believe ONE of the roles of government is to see to the well

being of ALL its citizens. The current economic conditions exemplify the

effect of laissez-faire policies.

The health care debate is about how to make the current system better,

lowering costs and giving everyone a reasonable option for quality health

insurance. I just don't understand all the " noise " about socialism and

patriotism. These noisemakers need to engage in civil discourse to help make

life better for ALL Americans.

--

Cleve J., PT

Change what you cannot accept.

The less you know, the more you believe.

Bono

" Common sense is not so common. " -- Voltaire

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Share on other sites

Brad,

You, Dick Hillyer and Mark Dywer are right on target.  The rightful place of

government is to provide opportunity, not to act as a social engineer. 

Here's what one of the House bills says on Page 16.

" 'Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance

issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such

coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the

first day' " of the year the legislation becomes law. "

What this means is that if a person changes jobs, another insurance company can

not write insurance for that individual.  The only options left to somebody who

is in this situation is to either enroll in the " government option " or pay a

penalty to the IRS.  Also, if a private pay insurance plan does not indemnify

the owner for at least 70% of health care costs, the plan is considered

" inadequate " by the federal government----and this translates into a fine levied

by the IRS. 

The words " if you like your present insurance plan, you

can keep it " ring very hollow.  Those words are literally true.  But

the devil is in the details. 

Darrell Schapmire, MS X-RTS Software Products & Testing Devices PO Box 171,

128 Madison Street Hopedale, IL  61747 Phone Fax

www.xrts.com   If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please

destroy it.  It may contain private or proprietary information to which you are

not entitled.  You may be subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution for

unauthorized use of the information contained herein or for its transfer to

another party.

From: DAVID PERRY <dperryptatt (DOT) net>

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 10:19 PM

 

Dick,

The US Constitution, in it's preamble, states " We the People....in order to

form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,

provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,... " and Article 1,

Section 8: " The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties,

imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and

general welfare of the United States... "

So I would propose that in order to promote the general welfare of it's

citizens, one might stretch to the conclusion that providing health care

services to all it's citizens just might promote their general welfare. And in

order to from a more perfect health care system, that periodic reform might be

necessary. And the Constitution provides for our government the ability to levy

taxes to pay for such benefits.

Both sides of this debate will continue to exert their beliefs, and

unfortunately few will be persuaded to change their stance. Will we ever see

meaningful Health Care Reform? Or will we recreate the inequities that previous

abbreviated attempts have delivered? How many posts have been made to this

listserve over the past few years complaining about therapy caps, coding

inequities, denials of service, patients failing to show when their insurance

runs out, etc? Would anyone disagree that our current Health Care System is less

than perfect? Why can't we as a nation focus on trying to form that perfect

health care system, that would adress the general welfare of it's citizens?

Debate yes, but work constructively to evolve our current dysfunctional system

into a better one.

Not sure if our founding fathers put them in order of priority or not, but in

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the bullet point about

" general welfare " is first while " establish post offices " is seventh. Defining

general welfare is left more up to interpretation than post offices though. go

figure.

W. , PT, MS

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

PTA Program Chair, Baker College of Park

Therapeutics

Chair, Michigan Board of Physical Therapy

david.perry@ baker.edu

" And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in

your years. "

Abraham Lincoln

" A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. "

Albert Einstein

____________ _________ _________ __

From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyerComcast (DOT) net>

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:25:08 PM

Subject: RE: Healthcare Reform

Rick et al -

In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more votes

or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

different from those others.

Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny. Power

is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties of

the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties from

further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

environment.

The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

consent of the governed... "

Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the God-given

rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America. To

*secure the rights of the individuals* . So, I have to ask, What is a

primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

exercise their liberties?

Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

legitimate role of our government.

Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying out

of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and talks

but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

difficult exercises, and distance walked.

This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

clamor, and asking:

" 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

Respectfully,

Dick Hillyer, DPT

W. Hillyer,PT,DPT, MBA,MSM

Lee Therapist Group, LLC

Hillyer Consulting

Cape Coral, FL 33914

_____

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@ yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Healthcare Reform

Hello all, hope this finds you well,

I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry. I

am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

org/moyers/journal/ 07312009/ watch.html

Sincerely,

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt. com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brad,

You, Dick Hillyer and Mark Dywer are right on target.  The rightful place of

government is to provide opportunity, not to act as a social engineer. 

Here's what one of the House bills says on Page 16.

" 'Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance

issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such

coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the

first day' " of the year the legislation becomes law. "

What this means is that if a person changes jobs, another insurance company can

not write insurance for that individual.  The only options left to somebody who

is in this situation is to either enroll in the " government option " or pay a

penalty to the IRS.  Also, if a private pay insurance plan does not indemnify

the owner for at least 70% of health care costs, the plan is considered

" inadequate " by the federal government----and this translates into a fine levied

by the IRS. 

The words " if you like your present insurance plan, you

can keep it " ring very hollow.  Those words are literally true.  But

the devil is in the details. 

Darrell Schapmire, MS X-RTS Software Products & Testing Devices PO Box 171,

128 Madison Street Hopedale, IL  61747 Phone Fax

www.xrts.com   If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please

destroy it.  It may contain private or proprietary information to which you are

not entitled.  You may be subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution for

unauthorized use of the information contained herein or for its transfer to

another party.

From: DAVID PERRY <dperryptatt (DOT) net>

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 10:19 PM

 

Dick,

The US Constitution, in it's preamble, states " We the People....in order to

form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,

provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,... " and Article 1,

Section 8: " The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties,

imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and

general welfare of the United States... "

So I would propose that in order to promote the general welfare of it's

citizens, one might stretch to the conclusion that providing health care

services to all it's citizens just might promote their general welfare. And in

order to from a more perfect health care system, that periodic reform might be

necessary. And the Constitution provides for our government the ability to levy

taxes to pay for such benefits.

Both sides of this debate will continue to exert their beliefs, and

unfortunately few will be persuaded to change their stance. Will we ever see

meaningful Health Care Reform? Or will we recreate the inequities that previous

abbreviated attempts have delivered? How many posts have been made to this

listserve over the past few years complaining about therapy caps, coding

inequities, denials of service, patients failing to show when their insurance

runs out, etc? Would anyone disagree that our current Health Care System is less

than perfect? Why can't we as a nation focus on trying to form that perfect

health care system, that would adress the general welfare of it's citizens?

Debate yes, but work constructively to evolve our current dysfunctional system

into a better one.

Not sure if our founding fathers put them in order of priority or not, but in

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the bullet point about

" general welfare " is first while " establish post offices " is seventh. Defining

general welfare is left more up to interpretation than post offices though. go

figure.

W. , PT, MS

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

PTA Program Chair, Baker College of Park

Therapeutics

Chair, Michigan Board of Physical Therapy

david.perry@ baker.edu

" And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in

your years. "

Abraham Lincoln

" A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. "

Albert Einstein

____________ _________ _________ __

From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyerComcast (DOT) net>

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:25:08 PM

Subject: RE: Healthcare Reform

Rick et al -

In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more votes

or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

different from those others.

Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny. Power

is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties of

the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties from

further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

environment.

The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

consent of the governed... "

Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the God-given

rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America. To

*secure the rights of the individuals* . So, I have to ask, What is a

primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

exercise their liberties?

Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

legitimate role of our government.

Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying out

of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and talks

but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

difficult exercises, and distance walked.

This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

clamor, and asking:

" 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

Respectfully,

Dick Hillyer, DPT

W. Hillyer,PT,DPT, MBA,MSM

Lee Therapist Group, LLC

Hillyer Consulting

Cape Coral, FL 33914

_____

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@ yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Healthcare Reform

Hello all, hope this finds you well,

I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry. I

am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

org/moyers/journal/ 07312009/ watch.html

Sincerely,

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt. com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brad,

You, Dick Hillyer and Mark Dywer are right on target.  The rightful place of

government is to provide opportunity, not to act as a social engineer. 

Here's what one of the House bills says on Page 16.

" 'Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance

issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such

coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the

first day' " of the year the legislation becomes law. "

What this means is that if a person changes jobs, another insurance company can

not write insurance for that individual.  The only options left to somebody who

is in this situation is to either enroll in the " government option " or pay a

penalty to the IRS.  Also, if a private pay insurance plan does not indemnify

the owner for at least 70% of health care costs, the plan is considered

" inadequate " by the federal government----and this translates into a fine levied

by the IRS. 

The words " if you like your present insurance plan, you

can keep it " ring very hollow.  Those words are literally true.  But

the devil is in the details. 

Darrell Schapmire, MS X-RTS Software Products & Testing Devices PO Box 171,

128 Madison Street Hopedale, IL  61747 Phone Fax

www.xrts.com   If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please

destroy it.  It may contain private or proprietary information to which you are

not entitled.  You may be subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution for

unauthorized use of the information contained herein or for its transfer to

another party.

From: DAVID PERRY <dperryptatt (DOT) net>

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 10:19 PM

 

Dick,

The US Constitution, in it's preamble, states " We the People....in order to

form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,

provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,... " and Article 1,

Section 8: " The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties,

imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and

general welfare of the United States... "

So I would propose that in order to promote the general welfare of it's

citizens, one might stretch to the conclusion that providing health care

services to all it's citizens just might promote their general welfare. And in

order to from a more perfect health care system, that periodic reform might be

necessary. And the Constitution provides for our government the ability to levy

taxes to pay for such benefits.

Both sides of this debate will continue to exert their beliefs, and

unfortunately few will be persuaded to change their stance. Will we ever see

meaningful Health Care Reform? Or will we recreate the inequities that previous

abbreviated attempts have delivered? How many posts have been made to this

listserve over the past few years complaining about therapy caps, coding

inequities, denials of service, patients failing to show when their insurance

runs out, etc? Would anyone disagree that our current Health Care System is less

than perfect? Why can't we as a nation focus on trying to form that perfect

health care system, that would adress the general welfare of it's citizens?

Debate yes, but work constructively to evolve our current dysfunctional system

into a better one.

Not sure if our founding fathers put them in order of priority or not, but in

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the bullet point about

" general welfare " is first while " establish post offices " is seventh. Defining

general welfare is left more up to interpretation than post offices though. go

figure.

W. , PT, MS

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

PTA Program Chair, Baker College of Park

Therapeutics

Chair, Michigan Board of Physical Therapy

david.perry@ baker.edu

" And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in

your years. "

Abraham Lincoln

" A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. "

Albert Einstein

____________ _________ _________ __

From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyerComcast (DOT) net>

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:25:08 PM

Subject: RE: Healthcare Reform

Rick et al -

In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more votes

or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

different from those others.

Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny. Power

is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties of

the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties from

further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

environment.

The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

consent of the governed... "

Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the God-given

rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America. To

*secure the rights of the individuals* . So, I have to ask, What is a

primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

exercise their liberties?

Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

legitimate role of our government.

Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying out

of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and talks

but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

difficult exercises, and distance walked.

This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

clamor, and asking:

" 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

Respectfully,

Dick Hillyer, DPT

W. Hillyer,PT,DPT, MBA,MSM

Lee Therapist Group, LLC

Hillyer Consulting

Cape Coral, FL 33914

_____

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@ yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Healthcare Reform

Hello all, hope this finds you well,

I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry. I

am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

org/moyers/journal/ 07312009/ watch.html

Sincerely,

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt. com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curtis,

In your post you stated:

" The way that we resolve the expense of our healthcare system is healthy

competition, deregulation, and tort reform. Keeping the government out,

will allow for the free market to drive improved efficiencies, drive

down costs, and make the best healthcare in the world more accessible to

those who need it. "

This sounds wonderful, but in reality, if you go back and listen to the Bill

Moyer's interview with Wendell Potter that I originally posted you will see that

what has actually happended since the Health Insurance lobbyists were

successfull in defeating the Clinton healthcare initiative in 1998 is that there

is no longer " healthy competition " among insurance companies, instead, we have

the big 4 of BC/BS, United, Aetna and Cigna, buying up and eliminating the

competiton, and either raising the premiums on the sick and most costly or

dropping them altogether. We have seen, not improved efficiences but instead a

system that is SIX times more inefficient than the Medicare system grow more

inefficient each year and instead of increased accessibility, more Americans

uninsured or worse, underinsured than ever. So, then, given these facts, and

they are facts that can be easily checked and confirmed, what is your answer?

We have seen that deregulation and " free market " healtcare is great for the

insurance industry and their stockholders but not so great for providers and

consumers. I agree with you on Tort reform, which is sadly not being discussed

at all, but what else, short of providing a public option that will surely

increase " healthy competition " are we to do?

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Clinical Specialists

www.douglasspt.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mr. s,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the posting. Although I disagree, I'm always open to

> > > > considering the views of others. I'm disappointed that the posting

> > > that

> > > > I submitted two weeks ago was not sent out on the list serve.

> > > Clearly,

> > > > my posting portrayed an opposing position on this issue and I can

> > > only

> > > > hope that it was an unintentional oversight. I will attempt to

> > > resubmit

> > > > it.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks again,

> > > >

> > > > -Curtis

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > >

> > > > From: PTManager

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:PTManager

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager

> > > %40yahoogroups.com>] On

> > > > Behalf Of s

> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:09 PM

> > > > To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: Healthcare Reform

> > > >

> > > > Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> > > > I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter,

> former

> > > > vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the

> > > > outcome of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch

> > > this

> > > > interview and to then forward it to your patients, friends and

> > > families.

> > > > It is far time that we rescue health care from the grips of the

> > > > insurance industry. I am very interested to hear your opinions on

> > > this

> > > > piece. Thank you.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >> >

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >> >>

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > E. s, PT, DPT

> > > > Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> > > > Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> > > > www.douglasspt.com

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Government healthcare will be like the Blue Advantage of the Medicare

system. They allow 8 visits then say the patient needs no further therapy

as he/she should know their home exercise program and need no further

skilled therapy. It doesn't matter the diagnosis or complicating factors.

When the government gets total control, they, too, are a monopoly and

change, limit, decide one is too old or not worth the dollars spent for

healthcare. The story Wendell Potter tells is a horrifying one but the

government will be no better and much harder to change. It is bigger and

there is incredible waste and sloth. Of the dollars paid in, the percentage

paid out is a small fraction. Waste. And given Medicare is nearly bankrupt

and the debt of the country at present, where is the money coming from.

Taxes MUST be increased and services DECREASED without a doubt. There is no

other way!!! Can someone tell me why insurance companies cannot be sued?

You do not hear of it much but it seems that one should be able to sue

insurance companies just as one sues for WC or Auto ins. or malpractice,

etc. After all there is a contract. I also agree we need Tort reform but

that is another subject for another time. Some lawsuits are warranted and

when an insurance co. violates its contractual obligations it needs to be

held accountable. But perhaps I am ignorant about something in this

scenario.

Thank you,

Carroll , PT

Chattanooga, TN

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of s

Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 12:30 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

Curtis,

In your post you stated:

" The way that we resolve the expense of our healthcare system is healthy

competition, deregulation, and tort reform. Keeping the government out,

will allow for the free market to drive improved efficiencies, drive

down costs, and make the best healthcare in the world more accessible to

those who need it. "

This sounds wonderful, but in reality, if you go back and listen to the Bill

Moyer's interview with Wendell Potter that I originally posted you will see

that what has actually happended since the Health Insurance lobbyists were

successfull in defeating the Clinton healthcare initiative in 1998 is that

there is no longer " healthy competition " among insurance companies, instead,

we have the big 4 of BC/BS, United, Aetna and Cigna, buying up and

eliminating the competiton, and either raising the premiums on the sick and

most costly or dropping them altogether. We have seen, not improved

efficiences but instead a system that is SIX times more inefficient than the

Medicare system grow more inefficient each year and instead of increased

accessibility, more Americans uninsured or worse, underinsured than ever.

So, then, given these facts, and they are facts that can be easily checked

and confirmed, what is your answer? We have seen that deregulation and " free

market " healtcare is great for the insurance industry and their stockholders

but not so great for providers and consumers. I agree with you on Tort

reform, which is sadly not being discussed at all, but what else, short of

providing a public option that will surely increase " healthy competition "

are we to do?

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Clinical Specialists

www.douglasspt.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mr. s,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the posting. Although I disagree, I'm always open to

> > > > considering the views of others. I'm disappointed that the posting

> > > that

> > > > I submitted two weeks ago was not sent out on the list serve.

> > > Clearly,

> > > > my posting portrayed an opposing position on this issue and I can

> > > only

> > > > hope that it was an unintentional oversight. I will attempt to

> > > resubmit

> > > > it.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks again,

> > > >

> > > > -Curtis

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > >

> > > > From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:PTManager

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager

> > > %40yahoogroups.com>] On

> > > > Behalf Of s

> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:09 PM

> > > > To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: Healthcare Reform

> > > >

> > > > Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> > > > I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter,

> former

> > > > vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the

> > > > outcome of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch

> > > this

> > > > interview and to then forward it to your patients, friends and

> > > families.

> > > > It is far time that we rescue health care from the grips of the

> > > > insurance industry. I am very interested to hear your opinions on

> > > this

> > > > piece. Thank you.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >> >

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >> >>

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > E. s, PT, DPT

> > > > Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> > > > Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> > > > www.douglasspt.com

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

,

It seems the progressives have a new found appreciation for competition.  So if

a " government option " is OK in the health care field, would you accept a

" private option " to Social Security?

Darrell Schapmire, MS X-RTS Software Products & Testing Devices PO Box 171,

128 Madison Street Hopedale, IL  61747 Phone Fax

www.xrts.com   If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please

destroy it.  It may contain private or proprietary information to which you are

not entitled.  You may be subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution for

unauthorized use of the information contained herein or for its transfer to

another party.

Subject: Re: Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager

Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 11:29 AM

 

Curtis,

In your post you stated:

" The way that we resolve the expense of our healthcare system is healthy

competition, deregulation, and tort reform. Keeping the government out,

will allow for the free market to drive improved efficiencies, drive

down costs, and make the best healthcare in the world more accessible to

those who need it. "

This sounds wonderful, but in reality, if you go back and listen to the Bill

Moyer's interview with Wendell Potter that I originally posted you will see that

what has actually happended since the Health Insurance lobbyists were

successfull in defeating the Clinton healthcare initiative in 1998 is that there

is no longer " healthy competition " among insurance companies, instead, we have

the big 4 of BC/BS, United, Aetna and Cigna, buying up and eliminating the

competiton, and either raising the premiums on the sick and most costly or

dropping them altogether. We have seen, not improved efficiences but instead a

system that is SIX times more inefficient than the Medicare system grow more

inefficient each year and instead of increased accessibility, more Americans

uninsured or worse, underinsured than ever. So, then, given these facts, and

they are facts that can be easily checked and confirmed, what is your answer?

We have seen that deregulation and

" free market " healtcare is great for the insurance industry and their

stockholders but not so great for providers and consumers. I agree with you on

Tort reform, which is sadly not being discussed at all, but what else, short of

providing a public option that will surely increase " healthy competition " are we

to do?

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Clinical Specialists

www.douglasspt. com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mr. s,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the posting. Although I disagree, I'm always open to

> > > > considering the views of others. I'm disappointed that the posting

> > > that

> > > > I submitted two weeks ago was not sent out on the list serve.

> > > Clearly,

> > > > my posting portrayed an opposing position on this issue and I can

> > > only

> > > > hope that it was an unintentional oversight. I will attempt to

> > > resubmit

> > > > it.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks again,

> > > >

> > > > -Curtis

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > >

> > > > From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

> <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > > > [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

> <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager

> > > %40yahoogroups. com>] On

> > > > Behalf Of s

> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:09 PM

> > > > To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > <mailto:PTManager% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > > > Subject: Healthcare Reform

> > > >

> > > > Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> > > > I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter,

> former

> > > > vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the

> > > > outcome of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch

> > > this

> > > > interview and to then forward it to your patients, friends and

> > > families.

> > > > It is far time that we rescue health care from the grips of the

> > > > insurance industry. I am very interested to hear your opinions on

> > > this

> > > > piece. Thank you.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html> >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html> >> >

> > > > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html> >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html>

> > <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html

> <http://www.pbs. org/moyers/ journal/07312009 /watch.html> >> >>

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > E. s, PT, DPT

> > > > Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> > > > Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> > > > www.douglasspt. com

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I concur with this and would again like to say, the decline in this

democracy has been the result of the ethical/moral decline in our nation.

Over and over the founding fathers stressed the need for religion and

morality to be the foundation for the survival of such an experiment as they

were conducting in the colonies. If religion and morality were lost, so

would the democracy. As Tocqueville stated about the United States,

Religion in America takes no direct part in the government or society, but

it must, nevertheless, be regarded as the foremost of the political

institutions of that country.-is de Tocqueville, Democracy

<http://www.parable.com/breakpoint/item_0140447601.htm> in America.

Tocqueville also realized the much of what America accomplished was through

voluntary associations, not government, and especially churches;

accomplishments such as the building of schools and hospitals. Tocqueville

believed that government could not accomplish what these associations

accomplished. The community and the people are to care for one another, not

turn to the government to do so.

Respectfully,

Carroll , PT

Chattanooga, TN

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of Dick Hillyer

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:25 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Healthcare Reform

Rick et al -

In Europe, royalty and Parliaments ruled, asserting that only they could

confer rights -- which they could also withdraw if they could get more votes

or property doing so. Elite oligarchies or families could dictate what was

done with one's resources, possessions, flocks, or even children. That was

not tolerable to hearts yearning for liberty. Our nation was founded to be

different from those others.

Returning to basics, our Founders established a Constitution which

recognized that a strong central government easily becomes a tryanny. Power

is just too tempting, as we have well seen. Every culture in history which

has concentrated massive central power in the hands of a few has declined,

whereas our intentional non-European experiment, enhancing the liberties of

the individual citizens, flourished. We need to preserve our liberties from

further devolving into the hands of elitists and " statists " .

Please understand that I am not speaking for or against either the

Republicans or Democrats, but about Freedom; neither right nor left, but

liberty. I'm speaking on behalf of free men and free women, who exercise

liberty in making their own decisions about issues in their own operating

environment.

The Declaration of Independence (which was written before either the

Articles of Confederation or the Constitution) says: " We hold these truths

to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,

Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the

consent of the governed... "

Let's review that again: Governments are instituted to secure the God-given

rights of mankind which were recognized before the discovery of America. To

*secure the rights of the individuals*. So, I have to ask, What is a

primary job of government, other than to assure that the citizens get to

exercise their liberties?

Please don't get me wrong. A lot of people need a better healthcare

insurance plan; Charitable acts are good and noble; Being humanitarian is

a good thing. But disproportionately taking resources from one class of

citizens to provide goods or services for another group or class is not a

legitimate role of our government.

Healthcare is not the job of government: Defending the shores is.

Delivering the mail is (maybe.) and Expanding peoples liberties, staying out

of their business is the job of government. Some of the public discourse

reminds me of a manipulative addicted patient who talks and talks and talks

but never complies with their rehab program. They continuously create

crisis after crisis, diversion after diversion, and then get upset when

their therapist gets back to measuring degrees of ROM, repetitions of

difficult exercises, and distance walked.

This therapist is looking back at the original documents, bypassing the

clamor, and asking:

" 1) Defending the borders, 2) delivering the mail, and 3) ensuring our

individual liberties: How's that working for you? "

Respectfully,

Dick Hillyer, DPT

W. Hillyer,PT,DPT,MBA,MSM

Lee Therapist Group, LLC

Hillyer Consulting

Cape Coral, FL 33914

_____

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

Behalf

Of s

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:09 PM

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Healthcare Reform

Hello all, hope this finds you well,

I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter, former

vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in the outcome

of the current healthcare debate to take the time to watch this interview

and to then forward it to your patients, friends and families. It is far

time that we rescue health care from the grips of the insurance industry. I

am very interested to hear your opinions on this piece. Thank you.

http://www.pbs. <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

Sincerely,

E. s, PT, DPT

Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

www.douglasspt.com

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Share on other sites

I thought the point about Americans leaving to have healthcare in other

countries was interesting, but probably a statistic that could be

misinterpreted. A couple of years ago I started to hear about insurance

companies who arranged for some of their patients to travel to India and other

countries for surgery as a cost saving measure, not because of quality of care.

And if any of you have been to Costa Rica, you know that you encounter huge

billboards advertising inexpensive plastic surgery in the airport. Global

capitalism is the real reason that Americans receive healthcare elsewhere.

However just as there is no " global regulation " on employment practices in

countries who offer cheaper manufacturing products, there is no global

regulation on HIPAA, drugs or quality of service provided. Lots of issues in

the mix...

Melinda Nygren Pierce, PT, MS

Director of Rehabilitation

Presbyterian Homes

3200 Grant Street

ton, IL 60201

phone:

fax:

" Working to encourage older

adults to experience fullness

of life in community with dignity,

joy and the maximum level of

independence their health will allow. "

ail Disclosure Statement

This email and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) named.

It may contain confidential and privileged information that should remain

confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if it

has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply

email and then delete this message and any attachments from your system. If you

are not the intended recipient, do not deliver, distribute or copy this message

and/or any attachments; and, do not disclose or take any action upon or rely on

any information in the communication.

----------

BEGIN:VCARD

VERSION:2.1

X-GWTYPE:USER

FN:Pierce, Melinda

TEL;WORK:492-4838

EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:mpierce@...

N:Pierce;Melinda

END:VCARD

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello -

Has anyone else seen the irony with auto dealerships complaining about delayed

payments from the government with the " Cash for Clunkers " program? Excessive

paperwork, increased labor costs to submit forms, technical denials, overloaded

systems, dealers suspending participation due to slow cash flow (too high a

percentage of sales in the program), etc. I couldn't help but laugh - sounds a

lot like Medicare.

Good thing the program ran out of money so they could return to a model that

simply rewards those selling a quality product at a competitive price . . .

Todd

Todd Gifford PT

TherapeuticAssociates

www.therapeuticassociates.com

www.careconnections.com

phone | ext 1102

Healthcare Reform

> > > >

> > > > Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> > > > I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter,

> former

> > > > vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in

the

> > > > outcome of the current healthcare debate to take the time to

watch

> > > this

> > > > interview and to then forward it to your patients, friends and

> > > families.

> > > > It is far time that we rescue health care from the grips of the

> > > > insurance industry. I am very interested to hear your opinions

on

> > > this

> > > > piece. Thank you.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >> >

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >> >>

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > E. s, PT, DPT

> > > > Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> > > > Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> > > > www.douglasspt.com

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello -

Has anyone else seen the irony with auto dealerships complaining about delayed

payments from the government with the " Cash for Clunkers " program? Excessive

paperwork, increased labor costs to submit forms, technical denials, overloaded

systems, dealers suspending participation due to slow cash flow (too high a

percentage of sales in the program), etc. I couldn't help but laugh - sounds a

lot like Medicare.

Good thing the program ran out of money so they could return to a model that

simply rewards those selling a quality product at a competitive price . . .

Todd

Todd Gifford PT

TherapeuticAssociates

www.therapeuticassociates.com

www.careconnections.com

phone | ext 1102

Healthcare Reform

> > > >

> > > > Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> > > > I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter,

> former

> > > > vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in

the

> > > > outcome of the current healthcare debate to take the time to

watch

> > > this

> > > > interview and to then forward it to your patients, friends and

> > > families.

> > > > It is far time that we rescue health care from the grips of the

> > > > insurance industry. I am very interested to hear your opinions

on

> > > this

> > > > piece. Thank you.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >> >

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >> >>

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > E. s, PT, DPT

> > > > Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> > > > Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> > > > www.douglasspt.com

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello -

Has anyone else seen the irony with auto dealerships complaining about delayed

payments from the government with the " Cash for Clunkers " program? Excessive

paperwork, increased labor costs to submit forms, technical denials, overloaded

systems, dealers suspending participation due to slow cash flow (too high a

percentage of sales in the program), etc. I couldn't help but laugh - sounds a

lot like Medicare.

Good thing the program ran out of money so they could return to a model that

simply rewards those selling a quality product at a competitive price . . .

Todd

Todd Gifford PT

TherapeuticAssociates

www.therapeuticassociates.com

www.careconnections.com

phone | ext 1102

Healthcare Reform

> > > >

> > > > Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> > > > I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter,

> former

> > > > vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in

the

> > > > outcome of the current healthcare debate to take the time to

watch

> > > this

> > > > interview and to then forward it to your patients, friends and

> > > families.

> > > > It is far time that we rescue health care from the grips of the

> > > > insurance industry. I am very interested to hear your opinions

on

> > > this

> > > > piece. Thank you.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >> >

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >> >>

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > E. s, PT, DPT

> > > > Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> > > > Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> > > > www.douglasspt.com

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Todd,

Yes it does sound a lot like Medicare and if we don't continue to fight the

govt leviathan we will be writing more posts like yours about Medicare in a

few years...or sooner...

" The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of others peoples

money " Margaret Thatcher.

Phil Caraher, DPT, MS, CSCS

Healthcare Reform

> > > >

> > > > Hello all, hope this finds you well,

> > > > I wanted to share a link to an interview with Wendell Potter,

> former

> > > > vice-president of Cigna. I urge all of you with an interest in

the

> > > > outcome of the current healthcare debate to take the time to

watch

> > > this

> > > > interview and to then forward it to your patients, friends and

> > > families.

> > > > It is far time that we rescue health care from the grips of the

> > > > insurance industry. I am very interested to hear your opinions

on

> > > this

> > > > piece. Thank you.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >> >

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >>

> > > > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> >

> > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html>

> <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

<http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html> > >> >>

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > E. s, PT, DPT

> > > > Orthopedic Clinical Specialist

> > > > Fellow American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists

> > > > www.douglasspt.com

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
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