Re: BF-ing question

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 25/04/00 09:45:34 GMT Daylight Time, rm1@...

writes:

<< I've read in various books/websites that if exclusively bf-ing on

demand including a night feed it is 98% effective as a

contraceptive. >>

I'm not a BFC but was still BF on demand night and day (at least

every 4 hours) and I fell quicker for than for when I was

back at work and Olivia was sleeping through the night, (16 months between

Olivia and and 15 between him and ).

Awaiting appointment with GP for coil! Not trusting BF at all.

SAHM 5, Olivia 2, 1, 15.3.00

Editor Wallingford and District.

[Guest guest]

This is called LAM or Lactational Ammenorea (here a couple of h's in there

somewhere) Method. In more 'natural' societies babies have unlimited access

to the breast and often feed for 10 minutes in every hour keeping the

prolactin and oxytocin at such a level that they can suppress ovulation for

years. Natural spacing in societies where the babies are truly demand fed

is approximately 2 to 3 years.

Now Taking Charge of Your Own Fertility and other books suggest something

like 2 hourly feeds in the day and 4 hourly at night. Some books suggest

even bigger gaps between feeds.

However be warned LAM only really works of your baby feeds anytime they ask

for it and have complete access to the breast at all times (i.e. exposed

breast and baby being carried in a sling alongside the nipple)

We know from anecdotal evidence on this list, that some people follow all

the rules of LAM and still their periods resume after 6/8/12 weeks etc.

where as others periods do not return until the baby is weaned completely (I

was like this)

Personally, (and no research what so ever here) I believe it comes down to

how sensitive you are to the hormones.

--

Sue Holden

'There is no finer investment for any community than putting milk into

babies. Sir Winston Churchill, BBC Radio broadcast, 21 Mar. 1943

SAHM for Emma (3 1/2)

Harrogate, Wetherby and District Branch; BFC, NL Co-ed, Egnell Pump Rep

Region 7; Reg. Secretary, BFC Link.

[Guest guest]

i'm not a BFC or even particularly knowledgable but i heard/believe you have

to be feeding with no bigger gaps than 2 hrs, including through the night

for it to be effective....dunno never risked it!!

>(another one!!)

>

>I've read in various books/websites that if exclusively bf-ing on

>demand including a night feed it is 98% effective as a

>contraceptive. Have any of the BFCs amongst us got a reference

>for this by any chance? And what counts as a night feed?!

>Verity eats for the last time at anything between 11pm (earliest)

>and midnight (latest) and wakes any time between 4 and 5.15, and

>has done so from around 2 weeks old (which I have to say was

>rather unexpected...). Does the 4 or 5am feed count as a night

>feed, or is there too much of a gap?

>

>Thoughts, anyone?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sue,

> However be warned LAM only really works of your baby feeds

anytime they ask

> for it and have complete access to the breast at all times

(i.e. exposed

> breast and baby being carried in a sling alongside the nipple)

Interesting stuff. Verity does feed during the day for about 10

mins in every hour most of the time (I assumed that her very

frequent feeding during the day accounted for her sleeping what I

consider a long time at night, but I was a bit concerned about

whether I should be waking her up or not? She is happy, healthy

and growing so I thought 'if it ain't broke...' but what do you

think?)

> Personally, (and no research what so ever here) I believe it

comes down to

> how sensitive you are to the hormones.

Hrmm...well, I have always been very sensitive to them in the

past and had 24 hour nausea for the first 16 weeks - knew I was

pregnant even before I tested +ve on the day my period was due

(ohhhhh, that makes me want to be pregnant again! I must be

mad...)

We'll just have to see what happens...!

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sue,

> However be warned LAM only really works of your baby feeds

anytime they ask

> for it and have complete access to the breast at all times

(i.e. exposed

> breast and baby being carried in a sling alongside the nipple)

Interesting stuff. Verity does feed during the day for about 10

mins in every hour most of the time (I assumed that her very

frequent feeding during the day accounted for her sleeping what I

consider a long time at night, but I was a bit concerned about

whether I should be waking her up or not? She is happy, healthy

and growing so I thought 'if it ain't broke...' but what do you

think?)

> Personally, (and no research what so ever here) I believe it

comes down to

> how sensitive you are to the hormones.

Hrmm...well, I have always been very sensitive to them in the

past and had 24 hour nausea for the first 16 weeks - knew I was

pregnant even before I tested +ve on the day my period was due

(ohhhhh, that makes me want to be pregnant again! I must be

mad...)

We'll just have to see what happens...!

[Guest guest]

I think there's also a suggestion of a connection with maternal diet - I

don't know whether it counts if you are on the slimmers' list ;-) In

societies where diet is only just adequate, it's not in the mother's

body's interests to become pregnant again too soon - like girls with

anorexia stop having periods.

There's a nice book by Priya called 'Feeding our

Babies' which looks at baby feeding in different cultures - bfcs might

have it to lend out.

Diz

sue.holden wrote:

>

> This is called LAM or Lactational Ammenorea (here a couple of h's in there

> somewhere) Method. In more 'natural' societies babies have unlimited access

> to the breast and often feed for 10 minutes in every hour keeping the

> prolactin and oxytocin at such a level that they can suppress ovulation for

> years. Natural spacing in societies where the babies are truly demand fed

> is approximately 2 to 3 years.

>

> Now Taking Charge of Your Own Fertility and other books suggest something

> like 2 hourly feeds in the day and 4 hourly at night. Some books suggest

> even bigger gaps between feeds.

>

> However be warned LAM only really works of your baby feeds anytime they ask

> for it and have complete access to the breast at all times (i.e. exposed

> breast and baby being carried in a sling alongside the nipple)

>

> We know from anecdotal evidence on this list, that some people follow all

> the rules of LAM and still their periods resume after 6/8/12 weeks etc.

> where as others periods do not return until the baby is weaned completely (I

> was like this)

>

> Personally, (and no research what so ever here) I believe it comes down to

> how sensitive you are to the hormones.

>

> --

> Sue Holden

> 'There is no finer investment for any community than putting milk into

> babies. Sir Winston Churchill, BBC Radio broadcast, 21 Mar. 1943

> SAHM for Emma (3 1/2)

> Harrogate, Wetherby and District Branch; BFC, NL Co-ed, Egnell Pump Rep

> Region 7; Reg. Secretary, BFC Link.

[Guest guest]

If you like checking references, it's worth having a look on medline or

the bmj - both are online with their own searchable archives:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/medline.html

http://www.bmj.com/index.shtml

The other one which is good for breastfeeding questions is lactnet (Sue

can tell you more):

http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html

There might be something on the World Health Organisation pages too

I like URLs for searches :-)

Diz

wrote:

>

> (another one!!)

>

> I've read in various books/websites that if exclusively bf-ing on

> demand including a night feed it is 98% effective as a

> contraceptive. Have any of the BFCs amongst us got a reference

> for this by any chance? And what counts as a night feed?!

> Verity eats for the last time at anything between 11pm (earliest)

> and midnight (latest) and wakes any time between 4 and 5.15, and

> has done so from around 2 weeks old (which I have to say was

> rather unexpected...). Does the 4 or 5am feed count as a night

> feed, or is there too much of a gap?

>

> Thoughts, anyone?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was told that you had to be feeding about three hourly for the full 24

hours! to get effective contraceptive effect. I always found that easy as

mine were always 2hourly around the clock for at least 6 - 8 months

Dixon

NCT teacher/MSLC rep www.fortunecity.co.uk/picnicpark/rainbow/173

mum to 8, Jasmin 6, Polly 5, & Keira 2

PARENTHOOD IS THE GREATEST SINGLE PRESERVE OF THE AMATEUR....

BF-ing question

> (another one!!)

>

> I've read in various books/websites that if exclusively bf-ing on

> demand including a night feed it is 98% effective as a

> contraceptive. Does the 4 or 5am feed count as a night

> feed, or is there too much of a gap?

>

> Thoughts, anyone?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was told that you had to be feeding about three hourly for the full 24

hours! to get effective contraceptive effect. I always found that easy as

mine were always 2hourly around the clock for at least 6 - 8 months

Dixon

NCT teacher/MSLC rep www.fortunecity.co.uk/picnicpark/rainbow/173

mum to 8, Jasmin 6, Polly 5, & Keira 2

PARENTHOOD IS THE GREATEST SINGLE PRESERVE OF THE AMATEUR....

BF-ing question

> (another one!!)

>

> I've read in various books/websites that if exclusively bf-ing on

> demand including a night feed it is 98% effective as a

> contraceptive. Does the 4 or 5am feed count as a night

> feed, or is there too much of a gap?

>

> Thoughts, anyone?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I always thought bfing was pretty effective as contraception in my case. I had

to stop bfing the eldest two at 11 months each in order to get pregnant again.

In each case, I fell within months of stopping. However, with DS3 (being

definitely the last baby), I was prepared to bf for as long as he wanted and,

blow me, my blessed periods came back at 12 months anyway. So maybe it was the

bfing, but more probably it was just the way my body was in any event.

Alison

Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee

I was told that you had to be feeding about three hourly for the full 24

hours! to get effective contraceptive effect. I always found that easy as

mine were always 2hourly around the clock for at least 6 - 8 months

Dixon

[Guest guest]

I always thought bfing was pretty effective as contraception in my case. I had

to stop bfing the eldest two at 11 months each in order to get pregnant again.

In each case, I fell within months of stopping. However, with DS3 (being

definitely the last baby), I was prepared to bf for as long as he wanted and,

blow me, my blessed periods came back at 12 months anyway. So maybe it was the

bfing, but more probably it was just the way my body was in any event.

Alison

Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee

I was told that you had to be feeding about three hourly for the full 24

hours! to get effective contraceptive effect. I always found that easy as

mine were always 2hourly around the clock for at least 6 - 8 months

Dixon

[Guest guest]

[Angi]> i'm not a BFC or even particularly knowledgable but i

heard/believe you have

> to be feeding with no bigger gaps than 2 hrs, including through

the night

> for it to be effective....dunno never risked it!!

I looked at Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler and

she reckons if exclusively bfing, feeds no more than 4 hours

apart during the day and 6 hours at night would (should?!)

prevent ovulation for the first 6mos of the baby's life. Dunno

what to make of that, it seems a bit hairy to me, but we'll just

go with it and see what happens <g>

, catching up after a busy day (about which more later)

[Guest guest]

I am all for the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' kind of mentality. If

you are happy and Verity is happy, then everything is absolutely fine.

some mothers would find a baby who fed so regularly to be a nightmare, but

then again it does give you so much sleep at night. If she is taking plenty

of feeds over a 24 hour period then great, go for it.

Re the wanting to be pregnant thing - I was asked what contraception I was

using at my 6 week check (yeah, as if!!!). I commented that I never

intended using contraception again, to which the doctor replied that it was

my hormones talking.

Blimey - those hormones don't half get blamed for a lot!

Sue

> Verity does feed during the day for about 10

> mins in every hour most of the time (I assumed that her very

> frequent feeding during the day accounted for her sleeping what I

> consider a long time at night, but I was a bit concerned about

> whether I should be waking her up or not? She is happy, healthy

> and growing so I thought 'if it ain't broke...' but what do you

> think?)

>

> Hrmm...well, I have always been very sensitive to them in the

> past and had 24 hour nausea for the first 16 weeks - knew I was

> pregnant even before I tested +ve on the day my period was due

> (ohhhhh, that makes me want to be pregnant again! I must be

> mad...)

>

> We'll just have to see what happens...!

>

>

--

Sue Holden

'There is no finer investment for any community than putting milk into

babies. Sir Winston Churchill, BBC Radio broadcast, 21 Mar. 1943

SAHM for Emma (3 1/2)

Harrogate, Wetherby and District Branch; BFC, NL Co-ed, Egnell Pump Rep

Region 7; Reg. Secretary, BFC Link.

[Guest guest]

> If you like checking references, it's worth having a look on

medline or

> the bmj -

ooh thanks Diz,

will off and have a nosey just now.

[Guest guest]

>Re the wanting to be pregnant thing - I was asked what contraception I was

>using at my 6 week check (yeah, as if!!!)

They waited that long?

My midwife said, before I was discharged from hospital 'It's probably

the last thing on your mind but we always ask you to think carefully

about contraception. Is there anything you'd like me to sort out before

you leave?'

--

Sue

[Guest guest]

Re contraception:

I have opted for the mini-pill after both mine were born. Hate taking it,

hate having to remember exactly what time it has to be taken, hate the fact

that if I forget I'm not protected for a whole week apparently, hate the

fact that it stops periods so if I were pregnant I wouldn't know anyway...

Also hate the thought of any alternative forms of contraception. My ideal

would be to be non-sexually active for the whole time I'm b'feeding! Rob

doesn't agree!

Would be interested to know what others have opted for, and how they got on

with it.

(not nosey - just in the interests of research and the resumption of

happy marital relations)

McVeigh

Newsletter Editor & Secretary, Leighton Buzzard & District

SAHM to (AKA Tiff Toff) the pantophobic, DOB 19/9/97

& Caitlin (AKA Cake Tin) the suckaholic, DOB 12/1/00

Photo Album:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=697874 & a=5085964

>>Re the wanting to be pregnant thing - I was asked what contraception I was

>>using at my 6 week check (yeah, as if!!!)

>

>They waited that long?

[Guest guest]

> My midwife said, before I was discharged from hospital 'It's probably

> the last thing on your mind but we always ask you to think carefully

> about contraception. Is there anything you'd like me to sort out before

> you leave?'

I'm sure you are all familiar with my perineal trauma story? Well they gave

me a bag of about 3 dozen condoms, and said " that'll keep you going till you

come into the clinic next week " . I was asked 6 times about contraception.

(still got some of those condoms somewhere)

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> I looked at Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler and

> she reckons if exclusively bfing, feeds no more than 4 hours

> apart during the day and 6 hours at night would (should?!)

> prevent ovulation for the first 6mos of the baby's life. Dunno

> what to make of that, it seems a bit hairy to me, but we'll just

> go with it and see what happens <g>

As a trainee BFC, the figures of at least 2 hourly daytime and 4 hourly

night time, spring to mind. This is assuming baby is totally BF with no

additional fluids or solids for the first 6 months. I think the reference I

have is in an LLL Breastfeeding Abstracts (a bit like the research roundup

part of NCT Digest) I have stored somewhere in the black hole under the

computer desk, where I keep my NCT stuff (hoping it will magically file

itself neatly).

While I'm at it - re baby spacing - remember sometimes nature doesn't

co-operate just when you want it to!!! :-{

Lesley Moor

Traineee BFC 4 yrs, portfolio submitted

Gravesend & District

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> I looked at Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler and

> she reckons if exclusively bfing, feeds no more than 4 hours

> apart during the day and 6 hours at night would (should?!)

> prevent ovulation for the first 6mos of the baby's life. Dunno

> what to make of that, it seems a bit hairy to me, but we'll just

> go with it and see what happens <g>

As a trainee BFC, the figures of at least 2 hourly daytime and 4 hourly

night time, spring to mind. This is assuming baby is totally BF with no

additional fluids or solids for the first 6 months. I think the reference I

have is in an LLL Breastfeeding Abstracts (a bit like the research roundup

part of NCT Digest) I have stored somewhere in the black hole under the

computer desk, where I keep my NCT stuff (hoping it will magically file

itself neatly).

While I'm at it - re baby spacing - remember sometimes nature doesn't

co-operate just when you want it to!!! :-{

Lesley Moor

Traineee BFC 4 yrs, portfolio submitted

Gravesend & District

[Guest guest]

>Re the wanting to be pregnant thing - I was asked what contraception I was

>using at my 6 week check (yeah, as if!!!)

>They waited that long?

>My midwife said, before I was discharged from hospital 'It's probably

>the last thing on your mind but we always ask you to think carefully

>about contraception. Is there anything you'd like me to sort out before

>you leave?'

At the hospital where all mine have been born, a discreet package of condoms

in a plain paper bag is left on your pillow at some point during your stay.

When you're having a domino as I am, I assume they hand them to you with the

freshly weighed baby!

Have just thought that this dishing out of free condoms could explain DH's

willingness to have another baby - he's just a bit tight with money

sometimes, and maybe the lure of free contraception for the next few months

has made him overlook the £20,000 extension, 27 mpg MPV, £150 a week food

bill, swimming lessons, Beaver subs......................!

Lynda

SAHM to (7), (4), Fraser(2), EDD 18/5/00

Newsletter editor & general dogsbody, Mid-Northumberland branch

--

Sue

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22

Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:51:27 -0400

Subject: Digest Number 15

Message text written by INTERNET:nct-coffeeegroups

>dditionally - why milk? Not everyone drinks milk and it's certainly not

essential for breastfeeding. What about, for instance, vegan mothers? Or

mothers who just don't like it, or wouldn't drink that much?

<

Or in the case of a friend of mine with b/f twins - she ended up with 14

pints of doorstep milk - far too much for her to drink

madness

NCT been working on the welfare foods thing for ages - Rosie has written

some excllent stuff which i will post to announce as soon as I have it e

mailed to me -

gosh this prob is not chat .........

belinda

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 23

Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:51:03 +0100

Subject: Re: Ants!

> We have ants in the kitchen.

Oh Maura........

I read this (high speed skimming to catch up) as 'we have ANTs in

the kitchen' and thought....'yes, that's a fairly common NCT

thing to have, what's the problem?' LOL!!!!!

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 24

Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:09:09 +0100

Subject: Re: Having more than one...

Sam writes

> I don't mean this in a nasty way, but don't look for problems

where none

> may exist!!! <snip> You'll manage, whatever. Kids bring their

own love. They don't *need* a

> room each, or even new clothes. What they need is a loving

family. If you

> can give them loads of love and (I'll probably be shot for

saying this) can

> afford them, then go for it!

V sensible and I quite agree.

Not looking for problems, though, honest! My way of thinking

things through is to gather as much info as possible from as many

sources as possible and it does tend to make people think I'm

worrying when I'm just musing...I was the same when pregnant,

which amused the girls from both my A/N classes who all said

'see, all that worrying and you had a totally straightforward

birth' when I see it as 'all that research and I got what I

wanted because I knew all the facts' :-)))

'obsessive gatherer of useless information' !

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 25

Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:23:54 +0100

Subject: Re: Second time around

I did loads of " preparation " with DD1 when pregnant with DS; talking to her

about babies, talking about how she might feel, reading books etc. Made

not a scrap of difference she still hugely resented him as an interloper.

I couldn't leave them alone together when he was tiny because she would

slap him. Its only as his communications skills have improved and they can

play together that she has grown to appreciate him and yesterday she came

back indoors in a real temper with the kids up the road because they were

teasing her little brother!

Neither of them are in the last bit jealous of DD2 as they are now both

used to sharing me but interestingly DD2 does not like anyone else coming

to Mummy for a cuddle- even Daddy!

Lesley

Chair/ANT Worthing NCT Branch

Mum to Emma 8, Kieran 4 and Carys 21m

" Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose "

----------

>

> >And the books are all about jealousy too - it was completely unexpected

> >when DS1 said he loved his new baby sister (Mum's immediate guilt trip -

> >I must be doing something wrong - he's supposed to be jealous!)

>

>

> Yes I was expecting jealousy too - even went to a HV run session on how

to

> deal with it. But has shown not a hint of jealousy and often

> says how he loves his sister. I have a friend who's 2 year old was so

> jealous he would hit his baby sister and pull her (abundant) hair. After

> Caitlin was born, this friend was very eager for me to have the same

> problems, and was quite disappointed when I didn't.

>

>>

>

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

McVeigh wrote:

> Re contraception:

>

>

> Would be interested to know what others have opted for, and how they got on

> with it.

>

> (not nosey - just in the interests of research and the resumption of

> happy marital relations)

I too hated the mini-pill - gave me really bad headaches and I dodn't

like the

list of side effects.

At the moment we're not using anything, which is very foolish, but I

wouldn't be

too upset if I were to get pregnant. I read somewhere that b/feeding

suppresses

you libido not that I'd noticed, and more to the point it has done

nothing to suppress DH's libido!!

We keep buying packets of Condoms - but never use them.