Re: New Kidney each tx comments wanted

[Guest guest]

Are you talking about reuse dialyzers? Many centres in the U.S. do that (and

there may be some in others parts of Canada, but not where I go). They tried

that where I go, but they decided against it 3 or 4 years ago. Re-use

dialyzers is a controversial subject. The idea is to save money. For those

who don't know, the dialyzer is the actual component of the machine that is

the artificial kidney. It's a cylinder about a foot (25 cm or so) long, and

about wide enough that you can wrap your hand around it. It's clamped onto

the machine for each dialysis. Re-use dialyzers are designed to be cleaned

after use, and then re-used a certain number of times - for the same

patient, of course. It's one of those things in the medical world that are

debatable, but not enough that it can't be done. It doesn't really have a

bad track record. The hospital where I go decided that the cost savings

weren't enough for the trouble of cleaning them.

After a treatment, a nursing aid or a tech removes all the tubing and it

goes right into the garbage can. For reuse, they only keep the dialyzer

itself, and it goes for a special cleaning process, to be reused next time

on the same patient. They don't reuse them between patients though, only for

the same patient! So, nobody is sharing dialyzers. I've encountered many

people who thought this was the case.

The most important thing is to make sure the dialyzer is rinsed with saline

before use so that there are no cleaning chemicals left in it. Some people

have problems with those, even on brand new dialyzers. They don't

necessarily rinse them like this everywhere.

Pierre

New Kidney each tx comments wanted

I ask today about ds getting a new kidney each tx. I got this bull and s***

story about how much safer it is to reuse. I am a die hard christian and if

anything made me want to curse it was this. I told her that I was told that

she would say what she did. She looked stunned and I finish with " this is

what you have been told to say " . She says they use Rinilin (is that

spelled right). I only found one website though goggle with that name going

to a hemo bulletin board. She gave me paper work from Kidney foundation

saying that they use germicide solution such as formaldehyde and peracetic

acid. Said nothing about Rinilin (sp). They use they kidneys 40 times.

Yes, I said 40 times before the use a new one. I don't want to make someone

mad cause my ds's life is in their hands right now. She wanted to know

where I had heard a new one is better at each tx and I told her from

patients and she said I would have thought so. GRRRRRR

Deborah Bowman/tn *Ü*

deborah@...

[Guest guest]

Pierre,

This post was a keeper. So few of us understand the mechanics of dialysis -

I know I certainly don't! This post just got filed for long term reference!

Cy

New Kidney each tx comments wanted

>

>

> I ask today about ds getting a new kidney each tx. I got this bull and

s***

> story about how much safer it is to reuse. I am a die hard christian and

if

> anything made me want to curse it was this. I told her that I was told

that

> she would say what she did. She looked stunned and I finish with " this is

> what you have been told to say " . She says they use Rinilin (is that

> spelled right). I only found one website though goggle with that name

going

> to a hemo bulletin board. She gave me paper work from Kidney foundation

> saying that they use germicide solution such as formaldehyde and peracetic

> acid. Said nothing about Rinilin (sp). They use they kidneys 40 times.

> Yes, I said 40 times before the use a new one. I don't want to make

someone

> mad cause my ds's life is in their hands right now. She wanted to know

> where I had heard a new one is better at each tx and I told her from

> patients and she said I would have thought so. GRRRRRR

>

> Deborah Bowman/tn *Ü*

> deborah@...

>

>

> To edit your settings for the group, go to our Yahoo Group

> home page:

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iga-nephropathy/

>

> To unsubcribe via email,

> iga-nephropathy-unsubscribe

> Visit our companion website at www.igan.ca. The site is entirely supported

by donations. If you would like to help, go to:

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>

> Thank you

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI Stacey,

Thank you so much for your email. You are definitely not an intrusion, and

in fact I really appreciate your very informative email. Please feel free to

post at any time!

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I do not post to this list too often, as I sometimes fear my posts

being perceived as an intrusion. However Pierre invited me to join

your group and contribute what I could. I am a dialysis RN in

Pennsylvania, and have been in the dialysis field for over 13

years. I felt compelled to respond to your questions regarding

dialyzer reuse, and I hope that I can help to make you feel better.

Dialyzer reuse, as Pierre already stated, is very common in the US,

and has not been shown in any studies that I am aware of to be

unsafe. The dialyzers are reused for a set maximum number of times,

or until the membrane fails to meet preset standards of clearance.

In the clinic I worked at that did reuse of dialyzers, if the

dialyzer failed to achieve at least 80% of its original volume, it

was discarded, regardless of the number of times it had been used.

It is also subjected to pressure testing, so that if any of the

filaments in the dialyzer are damaged, it will fail the test and be

thrown out.

And it is ONLY used for 1 patient; the dialyzer had to be checked

with a staff person and the patient, when the patient was in the

chair. This prevents the wrong patient being put on the dialyzer.

If the patient was not able to check his own dialyzer, then 2 staff

checked it, with 1 of them being an RN. The chemical, called Renalin

(hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid)is rinsed out of the dialyzer

prior to the patient's treatment being started, and the fluid in the

membrane is checked with a special test strip to make sure all

traces of the chemicals are removed. This was also verified by 2

staff members.

When the nurse told you it is safer to have a reused dialyzer, she

was not feeding you a line of BS; she is correct in that a reused

dialyzer reduces a patient's exposure to the chemicals that are

inherent in plastic, which is what the dialyzer is made of. Once

the patient's blood goes through the filaments in the dialyzer, the

protein from that patient's own blood coats the filaments, thereby

reducing the repeated exposure to the plastic components. I have

seen patients experience what is called " first use syndrome " and it

is not pleasant. Some patients react to the chemical that is used

to sterilize certain dialyzers, experiencing nausea/vomiting, fever,

chills, and have to be medicated prior to using a dialyzer for the

first time. The facility that I am the director of does not reuse

dialyzers, but many clinics in my company do practice reuse.

Reuse is not for everyone, and I would not tell you that it is the

best thing for your son. I would however, encourage you to discuss

it with the nephrologist, the nurse manager, and make an educated

decision, not one based on fear or lack of information. (or from

misinformed patients either. I mean no offense by this, only that

all patients are not as educated as they appear.)

If I can answer any other questions for you, please don't hesitate

to ask; you can email me directly if you would like. I wish you

luck in caring for your son, and I hope he is doing well.

Take care,

Stacey

> I ask today about ds getting a new kidney each tx. I got this

bull and s*** story about how much safer it is to reuse. I am a die

hard christian and if anything made me want to curse it was this. I

told her that I was told that she would say what she did. She

looked stunned and I finish with " this is what you have been told to

say " . She says they use Rinilin (is that spelled right). I only

found one website though goggle with that name going to a hemo

bulletin board. She gave me paper work from Kidney foundation saying

that they use germicide solution such as formaldehyde and peracetic

acid. Said nothing about Rinilin (sp). They use they kidneys 40

times. Yes, I said 40 times before the use a new one. I don't want

to make someone mad cause my ds's life is in their hands right now.

She wanted to know where I had heard a new one is better at each tx

and I told her from patients and she said I would have thought so.

GRRRRRR

>

> Deborah Bowman/tn *Ü*

> deborah@b...

> Our 17yo son Bowman is in (ESRD) End Stage Renal Disease

> Please sign his guestbook at this site

http://www.caringbridge.org/tn/dbowman

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I do not post to this list too often, as I sometimes fear my posts

being perceived as an intrusion. However Pierre invited me to join

your group and contribute what I could. I am a dialysis RN in

Pennsylvania, and have been in the dialysis field for over 13

years. I felt compelled to respond to your questions regarding

dialyzer reuse, and I hope that I can help to make you feel better.

Dialyzer reuse, as Pierre already stated, is very common in the US,

and has not been shown in any studies that I am aware of to be

unsafe. The dialyzers are reused for a set maximum number of times,

or until the membrane fails to meet preset standards of clearance.

In the clinic I worked at that did reuse of dialyzers, if the

dialyzer failed to achieve at least 80% of its original volume, it

was discarded, regardless of the number of times it had been used.

It is also subjected to pressure testing, so that if any of the

filaments in the dialyzer are damaged, it will fail the test and be

thrown out.

And it is ONLY used for 1 patient; the dialyzer had to be checked

with a staff person and the patient, when the patient was in the

chair. This prevents the wrong patient being put on the dialyzer.

If the patient was not able to check his own dialyzer, then 2 staff

checked it, with 1 of them being an RN. The chemical, called Renalin

(hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid)is rinsed out of the dialyzer

prior to the patient's treatment being started, and the fluid in the

membrane is checked with a special test strip to make sure all

traces of the chemicals are removed. This was also verified by 2

staff members.

When the nurse told you it is safer to have a reused dialyzer, she

was not feeding you a line of BS; she is correct in that a reused

dialyzer reduces a patient's exposure to the chemicals that are

inherent in plastic, which is what the dialyzer is made of. Once

the patient's blood goes through the filaments in the dialyzer, the

protein from that patient's own blood coats the filaments, thereby

reducing the repeated exposure to the plastic components. I have

seen patients experience what is called " first use syndrome " and it

is not pleasant. Some patients react to the chemical that is used

to sterilize certain dialyzers, experiencing nausea/vomiting, fever,

chills, and have to be medicated prior to using a dialyzer for the

first time. The facility that I am the director of does not reuse

dialyzers, but many clinics in my company do practice reuse.

Reuse is not for everyone, and I would not tell you that it is the

best thing for your son. I would however, encourage you to discuss

it with the nephrologist, the nurse manager, and make an educated

decision, not one based on fear or lack of information. (or from

misinformed patients either. I mean no offense by this, only that

all patients are not as educated as they appear.)

If I can answer any other questions for you, please don't hesitate

to ask; you can email me directly if you would like. I wish you

luck in caring for your son, and I hope he is doing well.

Take care,

Stacey

> I ask today about ds getting a new kidney each tx. I got this

bull and s*** story about how much safer it is to reuse. I am a die

hard christian and if anything made me want to curse it was this. I

told her that I was told that she would say what she did. She

looked stunned and I finish with " this is what you have been told to

say " . She says they use Rinilin (is that spelled right). I only

found one website though goggle with that name going to a hemo

bulletin board. She gave me paper work from Kidney foundation saying

that they use germicide solution such as formaldehyde and peracetic

acid. Said nothing about Rinilin (sp). They use they kidneys 40

times. Yes, I said 40 times before the use a new one. I don't want

to make someone mad cause my ds's life is in their hands right now.

She wanted to know where I had heard a new one is better at each tx

and I told her from patients and she said I would have thought so.

GRRRRRR

>

> Deborah Bowman/tn *Ü*

> deborah@b...

> Our 17yo son Bowman is in (ESRD) End Stage Renal Disease

> Please sign his guestbook at this site

http://www.caringbridge.org/tn/dbowman

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome ! Please don't think of your posts as an intrusion! Your

insights and knowledge are very, very appreciated. I know how time

consuming writing responses can be at times and am very grateful we have

your voice on board.

Cy

Re: New Kidney each tx comments wanted

Hi All,

I do not post to this list too often, as I sometimes fear my posts

being perceived as an intrusion. However Pierre invited me to join

your group and contribute what I could. I am a dialysis RN in

Pennsylvania, and have been in the dialysis field for over 13

years. I felt compelled to respond to your questions regarding

dialyzer reuse, and I hope that I can help to make you feel better.

Dialyzer reuse, as Pierre already stated, is very common in the US,

and has not been shown in any studies that I am aware of to be

unsafe. The dialyzers are reused for a set maximum number of times,

or until the membrane fails to meet preset standards of clearance.

In the clinic I worked at that did reuse of dialyzers, if the

dialyzer failed to achieve at least 80% of its original volume, it

was discarded, regardless of the number of times it had been used.

It is also subjected to pressure testing, so that if any of the

filaments in the dialyzer are damaged, it will fail the test and be

thrown out.

And it is ONLY used for 1 patient; the dialyzer had to be checked

with a staff person and the patient, when the patient was in the

chair. This prevents the wrong patient being put on the dialyzer.

If the patient was not able to check his own dialyzer, then 2 staff

checked it, with 1 of them being an RN. The chemical, called Renalin

(hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid)is rinsed out of the dialyzer

prior to the patient's treatment being started, and the fluid in the

membrane is checked with a special test strip to make sure all

traces of the chemicals are removed. This was also verified by 2

staff members.

When the nurse told you it is safer to have a reused dialyzer, she

was not feeding you a line of BS; she is correct in that a reused

dialyzer reduces a patient's exposure to the chemicals that are

inherent in plastic, which is what the dialyzer is made of. Once

the patient's blood goes through the filaments in the dialyzer, the

protein from that patient's own blood coats the filaments, thereby

reducing the repeated exposure to the plastic components. I have

seen patients experience what is called " first use syndrome " and it

is not pleasant. Some patients react to the chemical that is used

to sterilize certain dialyzers, experiencing nausea/vomiting, fever,

chills, and have to be medicated prior to using a dialyzer for the

first time. The facility that I am the director of does not reuse

dialyzers, but many clinics in my company do practice reuse.

Reuse is not for everyone, and I would not tell you that it is the

best thing for your son. I would however, encourage you to discuss

it with the nephrologist, the nurse manager, and make an educated

decision, not one based on fear or lack of information. (or from

misinformed patients either. I mean no offense by this, only that

all patients are not as educated as they appear.)

If I can answer any other questions for you, please don't hesitate

to ask; you can email me directly if you would like. I wish you

luck in caring for your son, and I hope he is doing well.

Take care,

Stacey

> I ask today about ds getting a new kidney each tx. I got this

bull and s*** story about how much safer it is to reuse. I am a die

hard christian and if anything made me want to curse it was this. I

told her that I was told that she would say what she did. She

looked stunned and I finish with " this is what you have been told to

say " . She says they use Rinilin (is that spelled right). I only

found one website though goggle with that name going to a hemo

bulletin board. She gave me paper work from Kidney foundation saying

that they use germicide solution such as formaldehyde and peracetic

acid. Said nothing about Rinilin (sp). They use they kidneys 40

times. Yes, I said 40 times before the use a new one. I don't want

to make someone mad cause my ds's life is in their hands right now.

She wanted to know where I had heard a new one is better at each tx

and I told her from patients and she said I would have thought so.

GRRRRRR

>

> Deborah Bowman/tn *Ü*

> deborah@b...

> Our 17yo son Bowman is in (ESRD) End Stage Renal Disease

> Please sign his guestbook at this site

http://www.caringbridge.org/tn/dbowman

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

You are a real gem. Please don't hesitate in posting to the site.

Your explanation of reuse dialyzers is precisely as I had understood

through researching the topic.

Marty

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

You are a real gem. Please don't hesitate in posting to the site.

Your explanation of reuse dialyzers is precisely as I had understood

through researching the topic.

Marty

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Yes, it's great to hear from you again. I can't think of any time

or circumstances in which your posts would be intrusive. You dialysis nurses

are terrific.

Pierre

Re: Re: New Kidney each tx comments wanted

> Welcome ! Please don't think of your posts as an intrusion! Your

> insights and knowledge are very, very appreciated. I know how time

> consuming writing responses can be at times and am very grateful we have

> your voice on board.

>

> Cy

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Yes, it's great to hear from you again. I can't think of any time

or circumstances in which your posts would be intrusive. You dialysis nurses

are terrific.

Pierre

Re: Re: New Kidney each tx comments wanted

> Welcome ! Please don't think of your posts as an intrusion! Your

> insights and knowledge are very, very appreciated. I know how time

> consuming writing responses can be at times and am very grateful we have

> your voice on board.

>

> Cy

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Yes, it's great to hear from you again. I can't think of any time

or circumstances in which your posts would be intrusive. You dialysis nurses

are terrific.

Pierre

Re: Re: New Kidney each tx comments wanted

> Welcome ! Please don't think of your posts as an intrusion! Your

> insights and knowledge are very, very appreciated. I know how time

> consuming writing responses can be at times and am very grateful we have

> your voice on board.

>

> Cy

[Guest guest]

Hi Stacey,

it's always nice to have an expert to ask questions too. I am sure

there will be plenty of questions thrown your way, we are glad to have

you here.

Oh, and I am currently in nursing school right now. Tough, tough, but

I think I can handle it

> > I ask today about ds getting a new kidney each tx. I got this

> bull and s*** story about how much safer it is to reuse. I am a die

> hard christian and if anything made me want to curse it was this. I

> told her that I was told that she would say what she did. She

> looked stunned and I finish with " this is what you have been told to

> say " . She says they use Rinilin (is that spelled right). I only

> found one website though goggle with that name going to a hemo

> bulletin board. She gave me paper work from Kidney foundation saying

> that they use germicide solution such as formaldehyde and peracetic

> acid. Said nothing about Rinilin (sp). They use they kidneys 40

> times. Yes, I said 40 times before the use a new one. I don't want

> to make someone mad cause my ds's life is in their hands right now.

> She wanted to know where I had heard a new one is better at each tx

> and I told her from patients and she said I would have thought so.

> GRRRRRR

> >

> > Deborah Bowman/tn *Ü*

> > deborah@b...

> > Our 17yo son Bowman is in (ESRD) End Stage Renal Disease

> > Please sign his guestbook at this site

> http://www.caringbridge.org/tn/dbowman

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Stacey,

Please don't feel that you ever intrude here. Your post was very

informative, well written and from one who certainly knows her stuff!

When initially reading about the dialyzer reuse here on this site, I must

admit, it kind of grossed me out. (I can be kind of a germ fanatic at

times) But after reading your post and the reasoning behind reuse, it makes

sense that it could decrease a patient's exposure to chemicals (which if you

were one of us who has the misfortune to have many allergies), would be a

welcomed consideration.

Thanks for your input!

Connie

Re: New Kidney each tx comments wanted

Hi All,

I do not post to this list too often, as I sometimes fear my posts

being perceived as an intrusion. However Pierre invited me to join

your group and contribute what I could. I am a dialysis RN in

Pennsylvania, and have been in the dialysis field for over 13

years. I felt compelled to respond to your questions regarding

dialyzer reuse, and I hope that I can help to make you feel better.

Dialyzer reuse, as Pierre already stated, is very common in the US,

and has not been shown in any studies that I am aware of to be

unsafe. The dialyzers are reused for a set maximum number of times,

or until the membrane fails to meet preset standards of clearance.

In the clinic I worked at that did reuse of dialyzers, if the

dialyzer failed to achieve at least 80% of its original volume, it

was discarded, regardless of the number of times it had been used.

It is also subjected to pressure testing, so that if any of the

filaments in the dialyzer are damaged, it will fail the test and be

thrown out.

And it is ONLY used for 1 patient; the dialyzer had to be checked

with a staff person and the patient, when the patient was in the

chair. This prevents the wrong patient being put on the dialyzer.

If the patient was not able to check his own dialyzer, then 2 staff

checked it, with 1 of them being an RN. The chemical, called Renalin

(hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid)is rinsed out of the dialyzer

prior to the patient's treatment being started, and the fluid in the

membrane is checked with a special test strip to make sure all

traces of the chemicals are removed. This was also verified by 2

staff members.

When the nurse told you it is safer to have a reused dialyzer, she

was not feeding you a line of BS; she is correct in that a reused

dialyzer reduces a patient's exposure to the chemicals that are

inherent in plastic, which is what the dialyzer is made of. Once

the patient's blood goes through the filaments in the dialyzer, the

protein from that patient's own blood coats the filaments, thereby

reducing the repeated exposure to the plastic components. I have

seen patients experience what is called " first use syndrome " and it

is not pleasant. Some patients react to the chemical that is used

to sterilize certain dialyzers, experiencing nausea/vomiting, fever,

chills, and have to be medicated prior to using a dialyzer for the

first time. The facility that I am the director of does not reuse

dialyzers, but many clinics in my company do practice reuse.

Reuse is not for everyone, and I would not tell you that it is the

best thing for your son. I would however, encourage you to discuss

it with the nephrologist, the nurse manager, and make an educated

decision, not one based on fear or lack of information. (or from

misinformed patients either. I mean no offense by this, only that

all patients are not as educated as they appear.)

If I can answer any other questions for you, please don't hesitate

to ask; you can email me directly if you would like. I wish you

luck in caring for your son, and I hope he is doing well.

Take care,

Stacey

> I ask today about ds getting a new kidney each tx. I got this

bull and s*** story about how much safer it is to reuse. I am a die

hard christian and if anything made me want to curse it was this. I

told her that I was told that she would say what she did. She

looked stunned and I finish with " this is what you have been told to

say " . She says they use Rinilin (is that spelled right). I only

found one website though goggle with that name going to a hemo

bulletin board. She gave me paper work from Kidney foundation saying

that they use germicide solution such as formaldehyde and peracetic

acid. Said nothing about Rinilin (sp). They use they kidneys 40

times. Yes, I said 40 times before the use a new one. I don't want

to make someone mad cause my ds's life is in their hands right now.

She wanted to know where I had heard a new one is better at each tx

and I told her from patients and she said I would have thought so.

GRRRRRR

>

> Deborah Bowman/tn *Ü*

> deborah@b...

> Our 17yo son Bowman is in (ESRD) End Stage Renal Disease

> Please sign his guestbook at this site

http://www.caringbridge.org/tn/dbowman

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pierre,

You all have brought a smile to my face; it's great to feel

appreciated! I hope you are doing well....

Stacey

> Hi ! Yes, it's great to hear from you again. I can't think of

any time

> or circumstances in which your posts would be intrusive. You

dialysis nurses

> are terrific.

> Pierre

>

> Re: Re: New Kidney each tx comments wanted

>

>

> > Welcome ! Please don't think of your posts as an

intrusion! Your

> > insights and knowledge are very, very appreciated. I know how

time

> > consuming writing responses can be at times and am very grateful

we have

> > your voice on board.

> >

> > Cy

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for the vote of confidence; I will try my best to give you

the information I have. A big " atta girl! " for going to nursing

school; in the health field today, the sky's the limit. You can

basically go wherever you want to, and do whatever specialty you

like. It is tough, but I have gotten so much joy and such a sense

of accomplishment from what I do that I can't imagine doing anything

else. (sort of like motherhood too, and they both give me headaches

sometimes too!)

Stacey

> Hi Stacey,

> it's always nice to have an expert to ask questions too. I am sure

> there will be plenty of questions thrown your way, we are glad to

have

> you here.

> Oh, and I am currently in nursing school right now. Tough, tough,

but

> I think I can handle it

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

Being in the hospital as many times as I have in the past year, I have

interrogated many nurses who love the profession. So I am definitely

positive that this is what I want to do. Thanks again for the

encouragement!

Maybe in the next year, an opening for an RN position will arise in

say, HAWAII

> > Hi Stacey,

> > it's always nice to have an expert to ask questions too. I am sure

> > there will be plenty of questions thrown your way, we are glad to

> have

> > you here.

> > Oh, and I am currently in nursing school right now. Tough, tough,

> but

> > I think I can handle it

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

Being in the hospital as many times as I have in the past year, I have

interrogated many nurses who love the profession. So I am definitely

positive that this is what I want to do. Thanks again for the

encouragement!

Maybe in the next year, an opening for an RN position will arise in

say, HAWAII

> > Hi Stacey,

> > it's always nice to have an expert to ask questions too. I am sure

> > there will be plenty of questions thrown your way, we are glad to

> have

> > you here.

> > Oh, and I am currently in nursing school right now. Tough, tough,

> but

> > I think I can handle it

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

Being in the hospital as many times as I have in the past year, I have

interrogated many nurses who love the profession. So I am definitely

positive that this is what I want to do. Thanks again for the

encouragement!

Maybe in the next year, an opening for an RN position will arise in

say, HAWAII

> > Hi Stacey,

> > it's always nice to have an expert to ask questions too. I am sure

> > there will be plenty of questions thrown your way, we are glad to

> have

> > you here.

> > Oh, and I am currently in nursing school right now. Tough, tough,

> but

> > I think I can handle it

> >

> >

> >