RE: Mad Medic Shirts

[Guest guest]

hehehe I like the shirts...but the grammar on a couple of them is wrong,

specifically on the top 10 shirt:

" when your sicker than your patients "

the first " your " should be " you're "

Mad Medic Shirts

> WWW.MadMedic.NET

>

> First Off it is not my intention to fill the group with

> advertisements, just to let a few people know that we are here.

> I am a Paramedic and not a big company and I wanted to make some fun,

> twisted, and sick shirts for others to enjoy. They are not for

> everyone, but a few of us are really enjoying them, and some of us

> need a little fun in our day. So take a second to check them out and

> if it's not for you, but you know someone who might like them, let

> them know we are here.

>

> Thanks for looking,

> The Mad Medic

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Without knowing what rulings have precedent over the definitions of the rule,

it appears that a case could be made for such a charge, using the common

definitions of the words in the rule.

Just my $0.02.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/16/2004 9:46:35 AM Central Standard Time,

Etlaesium@... writes:

I hate to give this thread any more publicity than is due, but referring

back to it made me wonder. If the creator of these garbage shirts was

certified by TDH, would he or she be held to the " Conduct detrimental to the

public trust and confidence " rule? Makes one go, " Hmm?! "

Anyway.

Mike

I would hope NOT, bad taste is still covered under this thing we have in the

US called FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

I don't like them, I won't buy them nor would I wear them BUT he has the

RIGHT to print them and sell them!

If they did apply that rule I'd donate money to the ACLU to defend his rights.

Censorship is a form of terrorism in my view. One cannot legislate morality

and or ethics it will not work.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

There may well be some First Amendment grounds there, but under current case

law freedom of speech is not absolute. For example, slander and libel are not

protected. Nor is obscenity. Also, " commerical speech, " in other words

advertising, is not given the same protections as political speech.

All in all, Lou and Mike, you've both got some interesting thoughts. Should

we make this the next litmus test for Supreme Court justices? Forget Roe v.

Wade, how about Mad Medic?

-Wes Ogilvie

[Guest guest]

Wes & Gene,

Is slander and libel not directed at an individual or an entity like a

corporation? I mean if a protester was standing in front of a fire satiation

saying

that all FFs are drunks and the like they are not committing slander and libel

but if you say That Chief X is a drunk that's different?

Isn't it?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

Actually, you can slander a group, but it needs to be specific. For example,

all firefighters are drunks is not slander. But all firefighters at station

number such-and-such in this city are drunks - that's slander.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/16/2004 10:39:14 AM Central Standard Time,

mreed_911@... writes:

It's when your conduct becomes offensive or threatening to someone else

(offensive as defined by community standards and a line drawn by the

courts, NOT by " personal offensiveness " ) that you have crossed over the

line delineated by " your " rights.

Agreed and understood BUT I have to say that in this world we are in right

now we seem to have forgotten that Sticks and stones break bones and words never

hurt.

My favorite response story was one where a large man who happened to be of

color was called a Ni**er by a prisoner, his response was the loudest belly

laugh I ever heard from that man and he just went on.

Words can be offensive and they can even hurt (ever have your kid tell you he

hates you and you see that in that instant he does in his eyes?) but in the

long run they are nothing but words.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/16/2004 10:39:14 AM Central Standard Time,

mreed_911@... writes:

It's when your conduct becomes offensive or threatening to someone else

(offensive as defined by community standards and a line drawn by the

courts, NOT by " personal offensiveness " ) that you have crossed over the

line delineated by " your " rights.

Agreed and understood BUT I have to say that in this world we are in right

now we seem to have forgotten that Sticks and stones break bones and words never

hurt.

My favorite response story was one where a large man who happened to be of

color was called a Ni**er by a prisoner, his response was the loudest belly

laugh I ever heard from that man and he just went on.

Words can be offensive and they can even hurt (ever have your kid tell you he

hates you and you see that in that instant he does in his eyes?) but in the

long run they are nothing but words.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/16/2004 2:07:34 PM Central Standard Time,

Etlaesium@... writes:

Mike,

I'm not advocating that anyone set that standard. As I was discussing with

Wes off-list, I truly hate rules that are of this subjective nature, but

then I have to think about those in the " less-than-common denomination " that

make these rules a necessity (or, do they?).

Mike

First of we need a moratorium on Mikes on this list we have WAY too many.

But the point is in my view about these " subjective " rules is just that. I

for example like to hear a bit of Stern every now and again (once a week

tops) BUT it seems as though some folks with some powers at this point in time

would have him silenced. This is where the " subjective " gets to be a problem.

I still stand by my Sticks and Stones line!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/16/2004 2:07:34 PM Central Standard Time,

Etlaesium@... writes:

Mike,

I'm not advocating that anyone set that standard. As I was discussing with

Wes off-list, I truly hate rules that are of this subjective nature, but

then I have to think about those in the " less-than-common denomination " that

make these rules a necessity (or, do they?).

Mike

First of we need a moratorium on Mikes on this list we have WAY too many.

But the point is in my view about these " subjective " rules is just that. I

for example like to hear a bit of Stern every now and again (once a week

tops) BUT it seems as though some folks with some powers at this point in time

would have him silenced. This is where the " subjective " gets to be a problem.

I still stand by my Sticks and Stones line!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

I hate to give this thread any more publicity than is due, but referring

back to it made me wonder. If the creator of these garbage shirts was

certified by TDH, would he or she be held to the " Conduct detrimental to the

public trust and confidence " rule? Makes one go, " Hmm?! "

Anyway.

Mike

Mad Medic Shirts

WWW.MadMedic.NET

First Off it is not my intention to fill the group with

advertisements, just to let a few people know that we are here.

I am a Paramedic and not a big company and I wanted to make some fun,

twisted, and sick shirts for others to enjoy. They are not for

everyone, but a few of us are really enjoying them, and some of us

need a little fun in our day. So take a second to check them out and

if it's not for you, but you know someone who might like them, let

them know we are here.

Thanks for looking,

The Mad Medic

[Guest guest]

See, now THAT'S interesting!

Mike

Re: Mad Medic Shirts

Without knowing what rulings have precedent over the definitions of the

rule,

it appears that a case could be made for such a charge, using the common

definitions of the words in the rule.

Just my $0.02.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

Here's the way I'm seeing it upon further reflection. If Mad Medic is

selling the t-shirts as they are now, without any reference to being state

certified

as an EMS provider, that is a more subjective matter. However, if Mad Medic

was selling the shirts as Doe, EMT-P -- then that would give TDH a more

solid footing to pursue administrative remedies.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

Here's the way I'm seeing it upon further reflection. If Mad Medic is

selling the t-shirts as they are now, without any reference to being state

certified

as an EMS provider, that is a more subjective matter. However, if Mad Medic

was selling the shirts as Doe, EMT-P -- then that would give TDH a more

solid footing to pursue administrative remedies.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

Did anyone every cry foul for this mad medic person spamming the list in the

first place?

In a message dated 3/16/2004 3:01:18 PM Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Here's the way I'm seeing it upon further reflection. If Mad Medic is

selling the t-shirts as they are now, without any reference to being state

certified

as an EMS provider, that is a more subjective matter. However, if Mad Medic

was selling the shirts as Doe, EMT-P -- then that would give TDH a more

solid footing to pursue administrative remedies.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

Did anyone every cry foul for this mad medic person spamming the list in the

first place?

In a message dated 3/16/2004 3:01:18 PM Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Here's the way I'm seeing it upon further reflection. If Mad Medic is

selling the t-shirts as they are now, without any reference to being state

certified

as an EMS provider, that is a more subjective matter. However, if Mad Medic

was selling the shirts as Doe, EMT-P -- then that would give TDH a more

solid footing to pursue administrative remedies.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

,

I've seen at least one other list spammed by this guy.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

From: Schadone

>>I hate to give this thread any more publicity than is due, but

referring

>>back to it made me wonder. If the creator of these garbage shirts was

>>certified by TDH, would he or she be held to the " Conduct detrimental

to >>the public trust and confidence " rule? Makes one go, " Hmm?! "

While I don't condone the shirts, as the adage goes, 'to each his own'.

There is nothing that says that wearing the shirt in ones own home,

would have any effect whatsoever on the public trust and confidence.

While they leave less to the imagination than all the FF shirts that

" find 'em hot and leave 'em wet " , and others that discuss the length of

their 'hoses', they have no effect on the public unless they are seen in

public.

That said, if someone were to have the contents of the shirt tattooed on

their chest, and run around the station shirtless, or if they were to

wear the 'Mad Medic' t-shirt, and run around the station with nothing

but that t-shirt on, then I would have to join in and say that perhaps

we should intervene.

Though we may not agree with things that others do or wear, we must

still respect their right to do and wear them until such time as they

interfere with you.

Mike

[Guest guest]

From: Schadone

>>I hate to give this thread any more publicity than is due, but

referring

>>back to it made me wonder. If the creator of these garbage shirts was

>>certified by TDH, would he or she be held to the " Conduct detrimental

to >>the public trust and confidence " rule? Makes one go, " Hmm?! "

While I don't condone the shirts, as the adage goes, 'to each his own'.

There is nothing that says that wearing the shirt in ones own home,

would have any effect whatsoever on the public trust and confidence.

While they leave less to the imagination than all the FF shirts that

" find 'em hot and leave 'em wet " , and others that discuss the length of

their 'hoses', they have no effect on the public unless they are seen in

public.

That said, if someone were to have the contents of the shirt tattooed on

their chest, and run around the station shirtless, or if they were to

wear the 'Mad Medic' t-shirt, and run around the station with nothing

but that t-shirt on, then I would have to join in and say that perhaps

we should intervene.

Though we may not agree with things that others do or wear, we must

still respect their right to do and wear them until such time as they

interfere with you.

Mike

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/16/2004 4:04:36 PM Central Standard Time,

mreed_911@... writes:

That's a bit of a misnomer. He was FIRED by several stations, or station

Management groups (a la Clear Channel). That's not censorship, that's a

Business decision. He's still free to say whatever he wants, just not on

their stations.

Mike

Mike come on you're intelligent enough to see bowing to " pressures " . I bet

you dollars to doughnuts it was a business decision that would not have been

made had the threat of ludicrous fines not been in play. I bet if you take that

aspect out of the issue and look at the dollars and cents of the BUSINESS

makes a few more pennies then average for his bosses. You factor in the

1/2

million dollar a WORD and all that fine and you have in my view a bit of

PRESSURE. UNDO Pressure in my view but then is that not the POINT. My view your

view Wes's, Bledsoe's and even Mr. Bledson's views are ALL different.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

There has to be a perception of loss to prove defamation of character. In

this case, the citizens (by City rule) may not favor the FD in negotiations

and each individual FF may lose money and reputation. I believe that a case

could easily be argued, and I think one could be argued by EACH firefighter

that was affected (if, indeed, they were affected).

Makes one wonder, though.

Regarding the MadMedic shirts, though, I don't see a problem aside from bad

taste if the person(s) responsible for designing the shirts is/are not

representative of EMS. A private corporation, person or entity could,

indeed, print and sell these shirts without recourse from the State. OTOH,

a licensed or certified provider who has knowingly chose to abide by a

professional standard should be censured and/or disciplined. There are

enough of us around that are striving for a higher standard of

professionalism that a juvenile attempt at disrespecting those that we

advocate for should not be so easily overlooked.

That being said, I'm sure that a union truck driver in New Jersey would be

quite disciplined for wearing a shirt that said " TEAMSTERS SUCK! " , though

unofficially.

Mike

Re: Mad Medic Shirts

Wes & Gene,

Is slander and libel not directed at an individual or an entity like a

corporation? I mean if a protester was standing in front of a fire satiation

saying

that all FFs are drunks and the like they are not committing slander and

libel

but if you say That Chief X is a drunk that's different?

Isn't it?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

There has to be a perception of loss to prove defamation of character. In

this case, the citizens (by City rule) may not favor the FD in negotiations

and each individual FF may lose money and reputation. I believe that a case

could easily be argued, and I think one could be argued by EACH firefighter

that was affected (if, indeed, they were affected).

Makes one wonder, though.

Regarding the MadMedic shirts, though, I don't see a problem aside from bad

taste if the person(s) responsible for designing the shirts is/are not

representative of EMS. A private corporation, person or entity could,

indeed, print and sell these shirts without recourse from the State. OTOH,

a licensed or certified provider who has knowingly chose to abide by a

professional standard should be censured and/or disciplined. There are

enough of us around that are striving for a higher standard of

professionalism that a juvenile attempt at disrespecting those that we

advocate for should not be so easily overlooked.

That being said, I'm sure that a union truck driver in New Jersey would be

quite disciplined for wearing a shirt that said " TEAMSTERS SUCK! " , though

unofficially.

Mike

Re: Mad Medic Shirts

Wes & Gene,

Is slander and libel not directed at an individual or an entity like a

corporation? I mean if a protester was standing in front of a fire satiation

saying

that all FFs are drunks and the like they are not committing slander and

libel

but if you say That Chief X is a drunk that's different?

Isn't it?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(NERRTC Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for it's

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

[Guest guest]

From: Mike , LP

>> " If this person were in Texas, and certified in Texas, could they be

>>charged by TDH for a rule violation? "

>>The answer seems to be yes, and it's because if the person is

certified in

>>Texas, they agree to abide by the rules.

I agree with the certification and abide by the rules statement, but for

the sake of argument, how does one actually prove that the

creation/design/manufacture or personal wearing of such a t-shirt

constitutes " Conduct detrimental to the public trust and confidence "

I don't see it, not meaning to be what's-his-name's advocate here, but

just because you don't find the humor, or you don't like it, doesn't

necessarily make it wrong, that only makes it 'something you don't

like'. If I buy one and wear it in public and you are offended, tell me,

and I'll change or cover it up. If I buy one and wear it at my house,

and you tell me that I am unprofessional and/or I am showing conduct

detrimental to the public trust and confidence, I will laugh

hysterically while ordering a second one.

You cannot legislate morality, many have tried, and failed. You cannot

presume that your taste is the definition of morality.

All of us, or at least most of us, will admit to telling an off color

joke within the confines of our home, and with our dark sense of humor,

these jokes may or may not have been in regards to a call or a patient.

This is the same thing, so what is the difference between telling that

off color joke in the confines and privacy of your own home, and

creating/designing/wearing that t-shirt in the confines and privacy of

your own home?

Mike

[Guest guest]

From: Mike , LP

>> " If this person were in Texas, and certified in Texas, could they be

>>charged by TDH for a rule violation? "

>>The answer seems to be yes, and it's because if the person is

certified in

>>Texas, they agree to abide by the rules.

I agree with the certification and abide by the rules statement, but for

the sake of argument, how does one actually prove that the

creation/design/manufacture or personal wearing of such a t-shirt

constitutes " Conduct detrimental to the public trust and confidence "

I don't see it, not meaning to be what's-his-name's advocate here, but

just because you don't find the humor, or you don't like it, doesn't

necessarily make it wrong, that only makes it 'something you don't

like'. If I buy one and wear it in public and you are offended, tell me,

and I'll change or cover it up. If I buy one and wear it at my house,

and you tell me that I am unprofessional and/or I am showing conduct

detrimental to the public trust and confidence, I will laugh

hysterically while ordering a second one.

You cannot legislate morality, many have tried, and failed. You cannot

presume that your taste is the definition of morality.

All of us, or at least most of us, will admit to telling an off color

joke within the confines of our home, and with our dark sense of humor,

these jokes may or may not have been in regards to a call or a patient.

This is the same thing, so what is the difference between telling that

off color joke in the confines and privacy of your own home, and

creating/designing/wearing that t-shirt in the confines and privacy of

your own home?

Mike

[Guest guest]

From: Schadone

>>Regarding the MadMedic shirts, though, I don't see a problem aside

from >>bad taste if the person(s) responsible for designing the shirts

is/are not

>>representative of EMS. A private corporation, person or entity could,

>>indeed, print and sell these shirts without recourse from the State.

>>OTOH, a licensed or certified provider who has knowingly chose to

abide by >>a professional standard should be censured and/or

disciplined. There are

>>enough of us around that are striving for a higher standard of

>>professionalism that a juvenile attempt at disrespecting those that we

>>advocate for should not be so easily overlooked.

Just curious as to who sets, or who will set the standards for decency?

Who will set the standards for what a person who is associated to EMS,

can do with things such as t-shirts, bumper stickers, books, etc. and

where will the line be?

Mike H