Re: Links. Too low calories and weight gain. TSH lab ranges, what they mean

[Guest guest]

I went looking.. If you only have time to read one of these, do the second, if you don't have time for that.... please, at least read this entire post to catch two sections that I pulled concerning lab ranges and low caloric intake causing hypos to gain.

Topper ()

this is interesting.. but not quite what you wanted, Kathy..

http://www.houghtongraphics.demon.co.uk/gordonskinner.html

This one is VERY interesting.. but doesn't have the specifics that you were seeking on Calcitonin... Definitely worth reading.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-104.html

There are two sections that I want to put here from this last link that specifically addresses over weight and low caloric intake as the cause of overweight in folks that are hypo. Something I've been saying for quite some time. If you eat too little your conversion suffers, your metabolism drops and you will be more likely to gain, or not lose, than you will to lose. The other has to do with lab ranges of TSH:

"Thyroid Deficiency in Obesity and DiabetesThe enzyme that converts T4 to T3 is called 5-monodeiodinase. Unfortunately, this enzyme is inhibited in response to diminished caloric intake (dieting). That means that the fewer calories ingested, the lower the production of 5-monodeiodinase. This is the body's natural method of conserving fuel during shortage. Because "dieting" is not a natural state, it elicits the same physical reaction as famine--another reason why "eating less" will never effectively treat obesity. Deficient peripheral conversion of T4 to T3 is found almost universally in patients who become overweight.

The thyroid gland is located in the neck and measures about 2 inches across. Thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3) stimulate energy metabolism in all the body's cells. Thyrocalcitonin, another thyroid hormone, regulates blood calcium levels by inhibiting bone breakdown. The parathyroid glands are located on the back of the thyroid gland. Parathyroid hormone (PTH) has the opposite effect of thyrocalcitonin. PTH increases blood calcium levels as needed by stimulating bone breakdown. (Anatomical Chart Company 2002®, Lippincott & Wilkins)"

.... just one more part that I want to highlight... from that same article:

"Defying the Reference RangesThe authors of The Lancet study stated that "the emerging epidemiological data begin to suggest that TSH concentrations above 2.0 (mU/L) may be associated with adverse effects." The authors prepared a chart based on previously published studies that provide guidance when interpreting the results from TSH blood tests. Here are three highlights from their chart that may be useful in ascertaining what your TSH values really mean:

TSH greater than 2.0: Increased 20-year risk of hypothyroidism and increased risk of thyroid autoimmune disease (Vanderpump et al. 1995)

TSH greater than 4.0: Greater risk of heart disease (Hak et al. 2000)

TSH between 2.0-4.0: Cholesterol levels decline in response to thyroxine (T4) therapy (Michalopoulou et al. 1998)

Despite presenting these intriguing findings, The Lancet authors stated that more studies were needed to define optimal TSH level as between 0.2-2.0 instead of between 0.2-5.5. For a health-conscious person, however, this type of precise information provides an opportunity to correct a medical condition that has been unresponsive to mainstream therapies or possibly to prevent disorders from developing in the first place.

This means if you have depression, heart disease, high cholesterol, chronic fatigue, poor mental performance, or any of the many other symptoms associated with thyroid deficiency, you may want to ask your doctor to "defy the reference ranges" and try different thyroid replacement therapeutic approaches."

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:33:44 -0000 "katmidg" writes:

Okay....I dont' think I am making this up....but Armour has calcitonin in it that helps build back bone so osteoporosis is not a concern???? I would love to see this in print somewhere to take to my doc, but the group I read it on, could not remember the link. Anybody know this?Kat> Good for you Kathy... not backing down.. stating your case... Backing up> your logic...> > ... I'm PROUD of you!!!> > Your frees are low.... your symptoms prove that.... but you know all> that.. the important part is that you got the increase... you didn't> state how much... did he go for the full 1/2 you were hoping for?> > Topper ()> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Kathy Kitzcat> <kitzcat2001@y...> writes:> Ok, I'm home from my appointment. The nurse gave me a> copy of my labs. They are:> > T4 Total - 6.6 (4.5 - 12.0)> T4, Free - 1.01 (0.8 - 2.2)> TSH - 2.190 (0.46 - 4.70) yeah, not the current range> T3, Free - 362 (230 - 420)> > He didn't want to up my dose and wanted to argue with> me when I said that the TSH didn't concern me, that I> wanted to see the frees more. I finally explained> that I wasn't interested in getting the TSH lower than> range (stating the 0.3 to 3.0 range) and once he> realized I wasn't wanting to go that far he was ok> with it. He still kept bringing up the osteoporosis> risk, but isn't worried about that unless I want to> totally suppress the TSH, which isn't what I'm looking> for. Thank goodness he can be reasoned with. I> dropped the script off on the way home and will pick> it up a little later this evening. He won't retest> for 3 months this time, but since he only gave me 3> months of script, I set the lab test for July 4th so> there will be time enough to get the results back> before I run out.> > > Kathy >^,,^<> KitzCat146@a...> http://www.chaytongroup.com/modernbill/order/index.php?aid=ka081104> http://www.heartwarmers4u.com/members/?kitzcat> kitzcat2001 on Yahoo Messenger> kitzcat on MSN Messenger> > In a cat's eyes, all things belong to cats. - English Proverb

[Guest guest]

I went looking.. If you only have time to read one of these, do the second, if you don't have time for that.... please, at least read this entire post to catch two sections that I pulled concerning lab ranges and low caloric intake causing hypos to gain.

Topper ()

this is interesting.. but not quite what you wanted, Kathy..

http://www.houghtongraphics.demon.co.uk/gordonskinner.html

This one is VERY interesting.. but doesn't have the specifics that you were seeking on Calcitonin... Definitely worth reading.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-104.html

There are two sections that I want to put here from this last link that specifically addresses over weight and low caloric intake as the cause of overweight in folks that are hypo. Something I've been saying for quite some time. If you eat too little your conversion suffers, your metabolism drops and you will be more likely to gain, or not lose, than you will to lose. The other has to do with lab ranges of TSH:

"Thyroid Deficiency in Obesity and DiabetesThe enzyme that converts T4 to T3 is called 5-monodeiodinase. Unfortunately, this enzyme is inhibited in response to diminished caloric intake (dieting). That means that the fewer calories ingested, the lower the production of 5-monodeiodinase. This is the body's natural method of conserving fuel during shortage. Because "dieting" is not a natural state, it elicits the same physical reaction as famine--another reason why "eating less" will never effectively treat obesity. Deficient peripheral conversion of T4 to T3 is found almost universally in patients who become overweight.

The thyroid gland is located in the neck and measures about 2 inches across. Thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3) stimulate energy metabolism in all the body's cells. Thyrocalcitonin, another thyroid hormone, regulates blood calcium levels by inhibiting bone breakdown. The parathyroid glands are located on the back of the thyroid gland. Parathyroid hormone (PTH) has the opposite effect of thyrocalcitonin. PTH increases blood calcium levels as needed by stimulating bone breakdown. (Anatomical Chart Company 2002®, Lippincott & Wilkins)"

.... just one more part that I want to highlight... from that same article:

"Defying the Reference RangesThe authors of The Lancet study stated that "the emerging epidemiological data begin to suggest that TSH concentrations above 2.0 (mU/L) may be associated with adverse effects." The authors prepared a chart based on previously published studies that provide guidance when interpreting the results from TSH blood tests. Here are three highlights from their chart that may be useful in ascertaining what your TSH values really mean:

TSH greater than 2.0: Increased 20-year risk of hypothyroidism and increased risk of thyroid autoimmune disease (Vanderpump et al. 1995)

TSH greater than 4.0: Greater risk of heart disease (Hak et al. 2000)

TSH between 2.0-4.0: Cholesterol levels decline in response to thyroxine (T4) therapy (Michalopoulou et al. 1998)

Despite presenting these intriguing findings, The Lancet authors stated that more studies were needed to define optimal TSH level as between 0.2-2.0 instead of between 0.2-5.5. For a health-conscious person, however, this type of precise information provides an opportunity to correct a medical condition that has been unresponsive to mainstream therapies or possibly to prevent disorders from developing in the first place.

This means if you have depression, heart disease, high cholesterol, chronic fatigue, poor mental performance, or any of the many other symptoms associated with thyroid deficiency, you may want to ask your doctor to "defy the reference ranges" and try different thyroid replacement therapeutic approaches."

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:33:44 -0000 "katmidg" writes:

Okay....I dont' think I am making this up....but Armour has calcitonin in it that helps build back bone so osteoporosis is not a concern???? I would love to see this in print somewhere to take to my doc, but the group I read it on, could not remember the link. Anybody know this?Kat> Good for you Kathy... not backing down.. stating your case... Backing up> your logic...> > ... I'm PROUD of you!!!> > Your frees are low.... your symptoms prove that.... but you know all> that.. the important part is that you got the increase... you didn't> state how much... did he go for the full 1/2 you were hoping for?> > Topper ()> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Kathy Kitzcat> <kitzcat2001@y...> writes:> Ok, I'm home from my appointment. The nurse gave me a> copy of my labs. They are:> > T4 Total - 6.6 (4.5 - 12.0)> T4, Free - 1.01 (0.8 - 2.2)> TSH - 2.190 (0.46 - 4.70) yeah, not the current range> T3, Free - 362 (230 - 420)> > He didn't want to up my dose and wanted to argue with> me when I said that the TSH didn't concern me, that I> wanted to see the frees more. I finally explained> that I wasn't interested in getting the TSH lower than> range (stating the 0.3 to 3.0 range) and once he> realized I wasn't wanting to go that far he was ok> with it. He still kept bringing up the osteoporosis> risk, but isn't worried about that unless I want to> totally suppress the TSH, which isn't what I'm looking> for. Thank goodness he can be reasoned with. I> dropped the script off on the way home and will pick> it up a little later this evening. He won't retest> for 3 months this time, but since he only gave me 3> months of script, I set the lab test for July 4th so> there will be time enough to get the results back> before I run out.> > > Kathy >^,,^<> KitzCat146@a...> http://www.chaytongroup.com/modernbill/order/index.php?aid=ka081104> http://www.heartwarmers4u.com/members/?kitzcat> kitzcat2001 on Yahoo Messenger> kitzcat on MSN Messenger> > In a cat's eyes, all things belong to cats. - English Proverb

[Guest guest]

TSH suppression has nothing to do with Calcium levels or bone loss... the issue has to do with folks that are on synthetics that have low TSH levels (synthetic T4 is a TSH suppressor, that is why you have to check the Free T3 and Free T4 to REALLY know if your dosage is correct or not) and do not have enough output from the parathyroids. Most of our Calcitonin is produced by the parathyroids, located just above (correct me if I'm wrong on location, someone) of the thyroid gland's lobes. They are often damaged during surgery and RAI as well.

With TSH suppressed any thyroid function, and therefore parathyroid function, will also be suppressed.

Without sufficient Calcitonin in the system the body is unable to pull calcium from the blood and put it back into the bones.

It's one of those great chemistry balancing acts again. You need enough Calcitonin in your system to do the job and enough calcium in your blood for your body to move back to the bone.

Keep in mind that the TSH test was invented by the same folks that invented synthetic T4. They used it as the 'new standard' to qualify the synthetic medication. So it's not quite as good as we are led to believe.....

I know that sounds prejudiced... but its just the way it is... good or bad, as long as we understand it and are still able to use it as a tool, it can still be to our benefit....

They've started making forms of Calcitonin that you can take independently of thyroid medications... if you do a google you will find several (I'd look now but I've got food on the stove and this poor email has been 'in process' for two hours already!! hehehehehe)

Topper ()

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:24:46 -0700 "J Sisemore" writes:

So if your TSH is suppressed, but you take Armour, do you still need to worry about osteo risk? Does supplementing with calcium help, or is this an absorbtion issue? My TSH was below range last time, and probably now is totally suppressed.