Chelation

January 29, 2001

I've done about 12 chelations and think they are very helpful. They take a

large burden of detoxing off your system. kathy

rheumatic chelation

>Hi group

>

>Ive lurked long enough - Before i ask my question I just want to say

>thanks to everyone for all of the info I have learnt so much over the

>past years - and as they say knowledge is power.

>

>I have scleroderma and have been on the AP for around 18 mths now

>(oral mino,zithro,celebrex and assorted supplements) my progress was

>ok but now things have slowed some. My GP wants to start

>administering IV chelation therapy. Has anyone had experience with

>this?

>

>The reason I ask is that from my reading its purpose is to rid the

>body of excess heavy metals - to my knowledge I would not have been

>exposed to anymore than anyone else. How would this help my condition

>overall?

>

>Thanks for listening.

>

>J

>

>To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

January 30, 2001

Aside from heavy metal removal,

I understand that this form of chelation also removes the free radicals that

have been produced in the body as a result of disease, environment and poor

eating habits in the past.

Sort of like spring cleaning. Doesn't look like it needs doing but when it

is done the water is very dirty.

I have an article somewhere....I'll pull it out and post it on my website

for anyone that wants to read it.

Donna

Ottawa, Canada

Scleroderma, Jan.95, AP Oct.97

(My Story) http://www3.sympatico.ca/mousepotatoes )

(Ottawa Support) http://www3.sympatico.ca/mousepotatoes/rbf.html

rheumatic chelation

>Hi group

>

>Ive lurked long enough - Before i ask my question I just want to say

>thanks to everyone for all of the info I have learnt so much over the

>past years - and as they say knowledge is power.

>

>I have scleroderma and have been on the AP for around 18 mths now

>(oral mino,zithro,celebrex and assorted supplements) my progress was

>ok but now things have slowed some. My GP wants to start

>administering IV chelation therapy. Has anyone had experience with

>this?

>

>The reason I ask is that from my reading its purpose is to rid the

>body of excess heavy metals - to my knowledge I would not have been

>exposed to anymore than anyone else. How would this help my condition

>overall?

>

>Thanks for listening.

>

>J

>

>To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

January 30, 2001

Geoff -

Have you heard of any detoxing or chelating that can be done with supplements and herbs?

I went to "goggle.mercury+detox" and it talks of chelation - but I don't know if it works.

Thanks - LuAnn

January 30, 2001

Hi ! Geoff Crenshaw here.

> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:50:27 -0000

> From: john.dejuliis@...

> Subject: chelation

>

> Hi group

>

> Ive lurked long enough - Before i ask my question I just want to say

> thanks to everyone for all of the info I have learnt so much over the

> past years - and as they say knowledge is power.

>

> I have scleroderma and have been on the AP for around 18 mths now

> (oral mino,zithro,celebrex and assorted supplements) my progress was

> ok but now things have slowed some. My GP wants to start

> administering IV chelation therapy. Has anyone had experience with

> this?

>

> The reason I ask is that from my reading its purpose is to rid the

> body of excess heavy metals - to my knowledge I would not have been

> exposed to anymore than anyone else. How would this help my condition

> overall?

>

> Thanks for listening.

>

> J

Good for some metals - not all. Good for circulatory plaques,

calcification, etc., as well. Minimal danger...

HOWEVER

Before starting chelation it is a good idea to detoxify the Liver, then

the Kidneys, then the Liver again. Chelation cleans out the circulatory

system throughout the body - even those tiny vessels of the eyes, AND

the organs, but the liver & kidneys still have to handle transport and

filtration functions so the less load the better.

Also, beware of the chelating agent, timely caloric intake and type of

caloric intake, and vitamin supplementation. EDTA is the classic

chelating substance but others may be used as well. Each substance has a

drain on specific vitamins and minerals built-in and must be addressed.

For example, at the end of chelation some physicians will administer a

vitamin cocktail of sorts including B complex, etc.

Chelation can be fatiguing in the extreme. Consult the doctor about

proper meal planning and ingestion prior to each visit and any need for

snack-type items and what sort (carbs, proteins, what?) that would be

appropriate for you.

Consider a " driver " to get you home. If the chelation is particularly

fatiguing for you (for some it is, for others it is not) you may need

someone else to drive as the fatigue may render you unsafe behind the

wheel.

Finally, ensure that the " chelating agent " is appropriate to the

" problem agent. " In other words, will " X " specifically remove " Y? " Tip:

EDTA is great for a wide variety of things including lead poisoning --

but it is virtually useless against Uranium U235.

Regards, -----------------------

Geoff ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

How can you have hope?

Get under the blood of the Passover Lamb.

EXO 12:7-3 / MAR 14:24 / REV 12:11

http://www.healingyou.org/ Nonprofit source for medicinal Herbs,

Homeopathics, supplements, etc.

http://www.800-800-cruise.com/index-aff.html Make money from travel!

http://www.800-800-cruise.com/ Over a MILLION travel deals in real-time

January 30, 2001

hi, john!

Not knowing more about the length of time and extent of your disease, I can only assume that your doctor

is concerned with internal scarring. I've had scleroderma for almost 20 yrs. with severe Raynauds as well

as external and internal tissue thickening due to excess collagen. It's my understanding that collagen is

held together with calcium and/or some other metalish mineral. Chelation should remove the excess

calcium--w/o removing needed calcium in the bones!--and loosen up the collagen clumps.

I haven't had the money to do weekly chelation as I would like, so I haven't seen great improvement,

but, apparently, the effects of chelation are cumulative, i.e.: you won't "lose ground" between IV's.

I'm no doctor or scientist, but that's my general understanding. If nothing else, ask your doctor point blank

to explain why he believes chelation is called for.

Good luck and good health!

Celeste

rheumatic chelation

Hi groupIve lurked long enough - Before i ask my question I just want to say thanks to everyone for all of the info I have learnt so much over the past years - and as they say knowledge is power.I have scleroderma and have been on the AP for around 18 mths now (oral mino,zithro,celebrex and assorted supplements) my progress was ok but now things have slowed some. My GP wants to start administering IV chelation therapy. Has anyone had experience with this? The reason I ask is that from my reading its purpose is to rid the body of excess heavy metals - to my knowledge I would not have been exposed to anymore than anyone else. How would this help my condition overall?Thanks for listening.JTo unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

January 31, 2001

Here are two articles I found interesting with regard to DMSO, EDTA and H202.

http://www.oxytherapy.com/oxyfiles/oxy00438.html

http://www.arthritistrust.org/topics/dmso.htm

DonnaOttawa, CanadaScleroderma, Jan.95, AP Oct.97(My Story) http://www3.sympatico.ca/mousepotatoes )(Ottawa Support) http://www3.sympatico.ca/mousepotatoes/rbf.html

Re: rheumatic chelationYes Donna - I would like to read the article on chelation. LuAnn

February 1, 2001

Hi LuAnn! Geoff Crenshaw here.

Yes, there are herbals used for detoxing specific organ systems. A common way is to brew specific herbs into teas, which has been discussed on the RA list several times. There are also some naturally chelating herbs, but I do not know how effective they are when compared to EDTA chelation. BTW, EDTA chelation is the primary treatment intervention for heart disease in Europe, but approved in the US only for lead poisoning. I know a Doctor in CA who has a nice book of patients that are heart surgery teams - surgeons, nurses, anesthesiologists, etc. The teams all practice locally (to him - roughly 200 people I would guess) and get chelated routinely, normally 2x a year. They do this to prevent heart and coronary disease -- but they DO NOT tell their patients about it nor recommend it.

Gee, what a surprise.

Geoff

Re: rheumatic chelation

Geoff - Have you heard of any detoxing or chelating that can be done with supplements and herbs? I went to "goggle.mercury+detox" and it talks of chelation - but I don't know if it works. Thanks - LuAnn

July 19, 2002

Hi ,

> Has anyone ever heard of doing dmsa 500 mg, two hours

> apart - 1000 mg

> total with a 150 mg IV

> dmps in between?

I don't recall hearing this specific one before. But

there are other variations that I've heard that are

in that direction.....

> This is our new doctor's plan for

> my 14 yr old son -140 lbs - saying he's done this on

> himself many times, as well as on his young daughter.

> He plans to repeat it at 2 wk intervals.

>

> Prior to this, the doc has spent 3 1/2 months

> supplementing vit and minerals, using enzymes, etc. to

> get my son in shape first.

>

> I guess I know what you will say, but I'm very anxious

> about this, after having waited the better part of a

> year to even get in to see him.

oh, that is so very sad

best wishes,

Moria

July 19, 2002

Dear ,

Hi, how are you? I don't want to hurt your feelings but, (it's

always but isn't it?) letters like yours make me feel better about

not having a doctor supervise my son's chelation. We are using

Andy's slow and low protocol and have seen only positive results. I

think high doses of chelators move too much mercury and can cause

more side effects. Also after a round at high dose there is more

mercury in the blood stream that has to resettle somewhere. It

could actually settle into a place that causes more damage than

removing it from it's original place did good! I hope you will use

your own judgement and make a decision based on all the information

you find. Best wishes, Maddie

> Andy, anyone,

>

> Has anyone ever heard of doing dmsa 500 mg, two hours

> apart - 1000 mg

> total with a 150 mg IV

> dmps in between? This is our new doctor's plan for

> my 14 yr old son -140 lbs - saying he's done this on

> himself many times, as well as on his young daughter.

> He plans to repeat it at 2 wk intervals.

>

> Prior to this, the doc has spent 3 1/2 months

> supplementing vit and minerals, using enzymes, etc. to

> get my son in shape first.

>

> I guess I know what you will say, but I'm very anxious

> about this, after having waited the better part of a

> year to even get in to see him.

>

> Thanks for any advice,

>

> __________________________________________________

>

July 19, 2002

--,

just as a comparison we are using DMSA 1/8mg per pound of body weight

every 4 hours 3 on 11 off for our son and are seeing results. We will

be adding ALA at a later date.

Patti

- In @y..., " madelinemelissa " <madelinemelissa@y...> wrote:

> Dear ,

> Hi, how are you? I don't want to hurt your feelings but, (it's

> always but isn't it?) letters like yours make me feel better about

> not having a doctor supervise my son's chelation. We are using

> Andy's slow and low protocol and have seen only positive results. I

> think high doses of chelators move too much mercury and can cause

> more side effects. Also after a round at high dose there is more

> mercury in the blood stream that has to resettle somewhere. It

> could actually settle into a place that causes more damage than

> removing it from it's original place did good! I hope you will use

> your own judgement and make a decision based on all the information

> you find. Best wishes, Maddie

>

> > Andy, anyone,

> >

> > Has anyone ever heard of doing dmsa 500 mg, two hours

> > apart - 1000 mg

> > total with a 150 mg IV

> > dmps in between? This is our new doctor's plan for

> > my 14 yr old son -140 lbs - saying he's done this on

> > himself many times, as well as on his young daughter.

> > He plans to repeat it at 2 wk intervals.

> >

> > Prior to this, the doc has spent 3 1/2 months

> > supplementing vit and minerals, using enzymes, etc. to

> > get my son in shape first.

> >

> > I guess I know what you will say, but I'm very anxious

> > about this, after having waited the better part of a

> > year to even get in to see him.

> >

> > Thanks for any advice,

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

July 19, 2002

> > Andy, anyone,

> >

> > Has anyone ever heard of doing dmsa 500 mg, two hours

> > apart - 1000 mg

> > total with a 150 mg IV

> > dmps in between?

No, , for all of my raving about " psychotically inappropriate

chelation protocols " I have never heard of ANYTHING like this. I

think I should have reserved those words so they would have more

impact....

> > This is our new doctor's plan for

> > my 14 yr old son -140 lbs - saying he's done this on

> > himself many times, as well as on his young daughter.

Let us see, at n = 2 the limit on adverse reactions (at the 95%

confidence interval as typically used in medicine) is is that they are

less frequent than 78% of the time. Not a convincing case the odds

are good. E. g. if you put one bullet in a revolver, spin the

cylinder, point it at the doc and pull the trigger, then point it at

his daughter and pull the trigger, the chances you hear " click, click "

are greater than that you shoot one of them.

> > He plans to repeat it at 2 wk intervals.

All concerns for safety, effectiveness, etc. aside, I am truly curious

how he decided this is a good idea. I really can't imagine how he

came up with it and if he wished to enlighten you I'd be interested to

hear it.

> >

> > Prior to this, the doc has spent 3 1/2 months

> > supplementing vit and minerals, using enzymes, etc. to

> > get my son in shape first.

This is pretty typical for the out of control dangerous doc's. Spend

a LOT of time screwing around with noncurative stuff while putting off

chelation, then do something dramatic. The more rational approach is

to quickly do something rational with the supplements and then give

chelation a try, adjusting both the supplements and the chelation

protocol as experience and further testing require. This causes much

more rapid progress overall.

> >

> > I guess I know what you will say, but I'm very anxious

> > about this, after having waited the better part of a

> > year to even get in to see him.

> >

> > Thanks for any advice,

buy some ALA from any convenient source, DMSA if you want it from

vitamin research products, and chelate your kid yourself. While a

good doctor can really be wonderfully helpful there is no question you

are much safer doing it yourself than letting this guy " help " you.

> >

Andy .

July 25, 2002

Belated thanks to Andy and others who took the time to

answer my questions! I sincerely appreciate it.

I had felt so good to finally think I might be able to

stop " playing doctor, " and turn it over to some one

who had the knowledge to take care of my son, but, it

looks like that's not to be for now.

Time to dust off and re-read Andy's book.....

Warmly,

Hirzel

> > Has anyone ever heard of doing dmsa 500 mg, two

> hours

> > apart - 1000 mg

> > total with a 150 mg IV

> > dmps in between?

> >

> > This is our new doctor's plan for

> > my 14 yr old son -140 lbs - saying he's done this

> on

> > himself many times, as well as on his young

> daughter.

> > He plans to repeat it at 2 wk intervals.

> >

> > Prior to this, the doc has spent 3 1/2 months

> > supplementing vit and minerals, using enzymes,

> etc. to

> > get my son in shape first.

> >

> > I guess I know what you will say, but I'm very

> anxious

> > about this, after having waited the better part of

> a

> > year to even get in to see him.

__________________________________________________

June 10, 2003

> Can you chelate without the help of a dr?

Yes. The chemicals in the pills don't need a doctor's orders to work

when you swallow them. And all the relevant pills can be gotten over

the counter or on the internet.

>I don't have one that would really be willing to help us.

You could shop around.

> If so, what do I need to do?

Learn how to do it right (try starting with the files section of this

listserver's webpage) and get to it.

> My son's hair testing (from Great Plains) was high in aluminum,

> antimony, arsenic and bismuth.

The files section talks about how to interpret this.

> Thanks, Rho

June 11, 2003

> Can you chelate without the help of a dr?

I do.

> If so, what do I need to do?

Learn all about it. You can start with my intro page, if you want

http://www.danasview.net/chelate.htm

>

> My son's hair testing (from Great Plains) was high in aluminum,

> antimony, arsenic and bismuth.

Check sources of current exposure here

http://www.danasview.net/metals.htm

Dana

July 14, 2003

Zoey,

Kind of as an aside, can you share anything else re: ABA with me? My son was

just diagnosed one week ago today with PDD-NOS and the doctor recommended ABA

therapy five days per week for two hours per day so I'm trying to talk to as

many people and learn as much as I can b/4 we dive into this. Thanks, KIM

[ ] Chelation

I was speaking to some ABA specialist over the weekend and they

strongly advise that we do not use chelation because the following

reasons. There is no study done to show that it works and no one

knows what the long term side effect these drugs or supplements

would have on our children. Can anyone reply to this?

Zoey

July 14, 2003

> I was speaking to some ABA specialist over the weekend and they

> strongly advise that we do not use chelation because the following

> reasons. There is no study done to show that it works and no one

> knows what the long term side effect these drugs or supplements

> would have on our children. Can anyone reply to this?

>

> Zoey

July 14, 2003

> I was speaking to some ABA specialist over the weekend and they

> strongly advise that we do not use chelation because the following

> reasons. There is no study done to show that it works and no one

> knows what the long term side effect these drugs or supplements

> would have on our children. Can anyone reply to this?

>

> Zoey

Dear Zoey,

I am not aware of any studies of chelation. There are many

people who have done it though, who can tell you that it helped

them. So, I think you have to decide for yourself: what kind

of evidence do you need? Are studies the only thing that you

will consider? For me, they are not. They are one thing, but

not the only thing. Also, I consider how risky/difficult/

expensive is this thing I am considering. I suggest you consider

BOTH the potential costs/risks AND the potential benefits.

Having no study that shows something " works " would not convince

me not to try it. All kinds of things work that have not been

" studied " . Many of them are also very safe. Also, even things

that HAVE been studied a lot: one can question the study, and

interpret it different ways. It really is not so cut and dried.

Also consider the alternatives: is there something better?

What are your options? What happens if you DON'T do chelation?

What will you try?

While you are considering alternatives, you can also think

about this: IF your child is mercury toxic (which I do not

know, of course), would you want the mercury to stay where

it is? or would you want to remove it, if you could?

best wishes,

Moria

July 15, 2003

in the early days when people were learning about ABA there were no studies done

to show that it worked. people had to try it first. and after trial and error,

and some very brutal use of aversives they got the ABA that is used today. and

still, it does not help every child.

surely they should be the first people to understand the process of reading the

research, devising a program based on that research, trialling and refining, and

then doing a study to see if it works. then there will be an extended period of

continuing to refine understanding. that is how it worked for aba. why should

it be any different for chelation etc. hopefully, chelation therapy does not go

through the child abuse stage.

beforMessage: 4

Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:52:58 -0000

From: " zoeyy2003 " <zoeyy2003@...>

Subject: Chelation

I was speaking to some ABA specialist over the weekend and they

strongly advise that we do not use chelation because the following

reasons. There is no study done to show that it works and no one

knows what the long term side effect these drugs or supplements

would have on our children. Can anyone reply to this?

Zoey

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July 15, 2003

Kim, I think ABA is by far the most effective therapy for autistic

children. I think you could read quite a lot about the nature of the

therapy. From my standpoint, my son went from harldy any vacabulary

to 100+, getting very good at independent play ( appropriate play ),

much improved eye contact, the list goes on. And this is only 5

months of ABA. We have on an average 20 hours a week.

Being knowledgeble yourself on what ABA is also helps a great deal.

This is because we are the ones who spend time with the children

outside those ABA hours. The more we could practise it, the better it

is for our kids.

There would be other approaches such as dietary, toxicity, etc that

you should also consider exploring.

But I strongly recommend signing up on ABA asap.

After learning of our son's diagnosis for 5 months, the most valuable

advice I got is that each child will have his/her unique way to get

out of this. And it's up to the parent to make that choice / decision

on which path to take. No matter how authoritative each approach

might sound to you, you still have to make the judgement call.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Zoey

--- In , " frank sabel " <sawyera@a...>

wrote:

> Zoey,

>

> Kind of as an aside, can you share anything else re: ABA with me?

My son was just diagnosed one week ago today with PDD-NOS and the

doctor recommended ABA therapy five days per week for two hours per

day so I'm trying to talk to as many people and learn as much as I

can b/4 we dive into this. Thanks, KIM

> [ ] Chelation

>

> I was speaking to some ABA specialist over the weekend and they

> strongly advise that we do not use chelation because the

following

> reasons. There is no study done to show that it works and no one

> knows what the long term side effect these drugs or supplements

> would have on our children. Can anyone reply to this?

>

> Zoey

>

July 15, 2003

--- In , " zoeyy2003 " <zoeyy2003@y...>

wrote:

> I was speaking to some ABA specialist over the weekend and they

> strongly advise that we do not use chelation because the following

> reasons. There is no study done to show that it works and no one

> knows what the long term side effect these drugs or supplements

> would have on our children. Can anyone reply to this?

I am not aware of any studies, nor do I personally know of any

long-term effects, except the effect I am currently seeing of a

typical 3yo child in a 7yo body.

My son no longer qualifies as autistic, and he has a Kanner's

diagnosis [genetic, from birth].

You can tell the ABA therapists that you are not chelating " because of

autism " , you are chelating " because of metal toxicity " . Most of the

time, that helps.

Good luck in your decision.

Dana

July 15, 2003

Zoey,

The ABA people told me the exact thing. They discouraged us from going to a DAN!

doctor. And they said the GFCF diet hadn't been proven either so not to bother

with it. And they said that they have never met a family with a vaccine injured

child. Now this is Cleveland so I was pretty shocked to hear that.

Thankfully I ignored them and didn't even bother telling them I had been

chelating my 15 month old. She's 16 months now. I didn't see immediate progress

and I was getting a little disenchanted about the whole mercury

poison/autism/chelation thing. It took about 4 weeks and then all of a sudden,

it was like she just woke up from a deep sleep that lasted 7 months. Did you

ever see that movie, 'Awakenings' with Robin and Deniro? Well,

it was like that. She was picking up where she left off at 9 months, before

autism struck. Her eye contact drastically improved, she started walking on her

own, she started babbling, she started holding her arms up in the air for us to

pick her up....before autism, she used to cry when i left the room and get

excited when I would come back. For the first time in 7 months, she cried when I

left the room and now when I enter the room, she immediately walks to me and

lifts up her arms. For 7 months, she would only walk or crawl around in the

living room. Now she is exploring the whole house. I haven't used the baby gates

since my first daughter was her age, until now. She now has receptive language.

She's starting to play with her older sister. There's just so much that she has

started doing just in one week. It is so amazing. AND, she hasn't even started

ABA yet. She's not on any kind of diet either.

Now I'm a bigtime skeptic and I wouldn't have fully believed in heavy metal

poison and chelation. But I certainly do now. We are even chelating my 3 year

old. She's not autistic but her speech is not the best for her age. We started

chelating her at the same time and in the same week, her language took off. She

is now talking in paragraphs. I am shocked at the sentences she's saying now and

am baffled where she learned those words. She also hasn't been throwing temper

tantrums like she would before.

I don't know if your child is toxic. I don't know if he's been exposed or not.

But I have amalgams in my mouth that I've had since I was a child. They started

breaking during my pregnancies and I swallowed a lot of tooth and filling. I

also grew up in Myrtle Beach and have been eating swordfish for years. I was

recently diagnosed with lupus, an autoimmune disorder brought on by genetics

(which is not in my case), stress (ok, maybe) or environmental factors (bingo!).

Next week I get the rest of my amalgams replaced and I can't wait to start

chelating myself.

Just go with your gut instinct. My doctor, dentist, the ABA people and most of

my family all made me feel like I was crazy when I would bring up mercury poison

and chelation. Now my husband and mother are completely in agreement with me.

The ABA people haven't seen my daughter since her diagnosis and I think they are

going to be shocked when they do.

Good luck!!!!

In a message dated 7/14/2003 6:52:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,

zoeyy2003@... writes:

>

> I was speaking to some ABA specialist over the weekend and they

> strongly advise that we do not use chelation because the following

> reasons. There is no study done to show that it works and no one

> knows what the long term side effect these drugs or supplements

> would have on our children. Can anyone reply to this?

>

> Zoey

>

> =======================================================

>

July 15, 2003

,

Did you do the hair test first? I'm just getting more and more convinced that I

should look into chelating further so your post really excited me. Also, what

protocol are you using? One last question (if you don't mind) I understand you

can get ALA from a Health Food Store, but where do you get DMSA? Do you need to

have a doctor on board to get that? Thanks. KIM

Re: [ ] Chelation

Zoey,

The ABA people told me the exact thing. They discouraged us from going to a

DAN! doctor. And they said the GFCF diet hadn't been proven either so not to

bother with it. And they said that they have never met a family with a vaccine

injured child. Now this is Cleveland so I was pretty shocked to hear that.