Use of ekg monitor for verification of asystole

[Guest guest]

Please advise of feelings on applying an ekg monitor to a patient in order to

determine death when considering termination of efforts. Also Mr. Gandy can you

tell me the possible legal ramifications of this practice.

Thank You,

Marty Outlaw, C. E. Coordinator, EMS Supervisor

Humble Fire Dept.

[Guest guest]

Obvious trauma death, or no pulse, lividity, rigidity, foul odder, marked

cyanosis, and none reactive pupils are signs of death. If those things are

present an ekg would not bee necessary remember asystole is a treatable

rhythm often a response to cardiac defibrillation.

Re: Use of ekg monitor for verification of asystole

>

>

> we didn't have lawyers then.

> heheh, sorry. no offense.

> That is a good point that you make and I am happy to know that the

> medics don't need to attach an ECG to some decapitated individual.

>

> nothing more,

> sean

>

> On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2004, at 23:31 US/Central, wegandy1938@...

> composed:

>

> > After all, people were pronounced dead for

> > thousands of years before the ECG was invented. How did our

> > forefathers ever know

> > anybody was dead since they didn't have an ECG?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Obvious trauma death, or no pulse, lividity, rigidity, foul odder, marked

cyanosis, and none reactive pupils are signs of death. If those things are

present an ekg would not bee necessary remember asystole is a treatable

rhythm often a response to cardiac defibrillation.

Re: Use of ekg monitor for verification of asystole

>

>

> we didn't have lawyers then.

> heheh, sorry. no offense.

> That is a good point that you make and I am happy to know that the

> medics don't need to attach an ECG to some decapitated individual.

>

> nothing more,

> sean

>

> On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2004, at 23:31 US/Central, wegandy1938@...

> composed:

>

> > After all, people were pronounced dead for

> > thousands of years before the ECG was invented. How did our

> > forefathers ever know

> > anybody was dead since they didn't have an ECG?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" ...remember asystole is a treatable rhythm often a response to

cardiac defibrillation. "

What about using the monitor to CONFIRM death? I agree that it is

not necessary with OBVIOUS death (i.e. trauma incompatible with

life, decomposition, etc.) BUT what about in the case of the 200

year old man who has some rigor, some lividity, pale, and cool to

touch? Is it a bad idea to use the monitor as a tool to confirm and

protect yourself?

I came from a system in the New Orleans area that required a

physician notification and approval not to resusciatate a " dead "

person. The physician wanted to hear " asystole confirmed in two

leads " , " rigor and lividity noted " , " pupils fixed and

dilated " , " patient cool to touch " , " trauma incompatible with life

(and describe such) " , and etc. I thought that was standard

throughout the country... The inverse seems to apply here in Texas.

Any thoughts?

Ronnie

[Guest guest]

" ...remember asystole is a treatable rhythm often a response to

cardiac defibrillation. "

What about using the monitor to CONFIRM death? I agree that it is

not necessary with OBVIOUS death (i.e. trauma incompatible with

life, decomposition, etc.) BUT what about in the case of the 200

year old man who has some rigor, some lividity, pale, and cool to

touch? Is it a bad idea to use the monitor as a tool to confirm and

protect yourself?

I came from a system in the New Orleans area that required a

physician notification and approval not to resusciatate a " dead "

person. The physician wanted to hear " asystole confirmed in two

leads " , " rigor and lividity noted " , " pupils fixed and

dilated " , " patient cool to touch " , " trauma incompatible with life

(and describe such) " , and etc. I thought that was standard

throughout the country... The inverse seems to apply here in Texas.

Any thoughts?

Ronnie