Re: Anise - dietary iodine and Grave's triggers.

[Guest guest]

Anise,

Can I ask, are you hyper at the moment? If so, what treatment are you

taking?

I thought 's post was very pertinent; I don't want to add to the " bad

atmosphere " so I won't say much. Very briefly, I like this topic about

dietry iodine, but I don't like the way Elaine is being pulled over the

coals - there is no need for it. If Elaine hasn't made a mistake, when she

has the time, I am sure she will find your reference; if she has (and whilst

my moneys' on the reference, we are all human) you really are creating an

atmosphere that makes it almost impossible to put her hand up.

Hope my perspective on that is useful to you.

I've got another extract for you, it's not the ref. you want but very

interesting all the same and leads to other refs that I will include. I'm

really enjoying all this reading - have you already read this one?:

from Graves' Disease Pathogenesis and Treatment edited by Basil Raporport &

M McLachlan: pge237: " Ch 17 Iodine and Graves' Disease: Ambient

Iodine Intake and Graves' Disease "

Although still controversial, the ambient inodine intake may play a

significant role in both the occurrence as well as the relapse of Graves'

disease. Graves' Disease has been reported to be more prevalent in

countries with a higher iodine intake compared with a lower iodine intake...

Iodine supplementation in endemic ioidine defiecient regions, while

largely successful in eliminating endemic goiter and cretinism (22) has also

resulted in an increase in iodide induced hyperthyroidism. Although the

majority of patients with iodine induced hyperthyroidism have long standing

multinodular goiters with autonomous foci (23), some cses have been due to

latent Graves' disease. An increase in dietry iodide may unmask patients

with latent Graves' disease whose hyperthyroidism had been previously

suppressd by iodine deficiency (24). It has also been postulated that

excess iodide can induce autoimmunity. Iodide given to hyperthyroid

patients with Graves' disease significantly increased the levels of

thyrotropin recptor antibody (25) and iodide has also been reported to

promote IgG synthesis in lymphocytes (26).

22 - Hetzel BS 1989 The story of iodine deficiency- an international

challenge in nutrition: Oxford University Press; 1989.

23 - Stanbury JB, Ermans AE, Bourdoux P, Todd C, Oken E, Tonglet R, Vidor G,

Braverman LE Medeiros-Neto G 1998 Iodine-induced hyperthyroidism: occurance

and epidomology Thryoid 8:83-100

24 - DD, Kennedy TH, JC, Utiger RD, Vidor GI 1975

Hyperthyroidism in Tasmania following iodide supplementation: measurements

of thyroid-stimulating autoantibodies and thyrotropin. J Clin Endocrnol

Metab 41:221-228

25 - R, McKillp JH, Thomson JA 1990 The effect of pre-operative

potassium iodide theraby on antibody production, Acta Endocrinol (Copenh)

123:531-534

To answer your question about fish, I love fish! But I think it was one of

the factors that helped trigger my Graves' disease and I never can sleep

well after I have eaten it as my heart rate is elevated after, sometimes to

the point of having to take a beta-blocker. Of course I can't say for sure

what it is, it could be the iodine, but it might be a slight food allergy,

it might be my expectation, but I am avoiding all sea-food anyhow.

Shell-fish and all bottom of the sea dwelling creatures have always been

particularly unattractive to me, but I like the taste of fresh fish.

I was in a thyrotoxic state for longer than most people are because they

thought I couldn't use ATDs and I didn't want surgery or RAI. I am avoiding

iodine quite instictively really, don't feel drawn to things with high

iodine content at the moment. I don't even swim in the sea anymore because

I find it makes me very anxious - again, don't know if that is the waves or

the iodine, or what - but I'm not going in cos it makes me feel bad.

I think I have made a connection in my brain that Iodine is " bad " , partly

due to my experience when they gave me the dye contrast for the CT scan: I

literally felt like someone had kicked me in the throat, I felt nauseous, my

heart raced and I was hot all over. I told the attending nurse/technician

and she said that was normal. I'm not so sure she was being entirely

truthful!

I craved fish after 13 or so years without it (I was strict vegetarian

untill about 1998/1999)and now think that this craving may have been due to

a transient period of hypOthyroidism right at the beginning of my illness

(it took over a year for hyperT to show up for me - no-one tested my thyoid

function for six or so months, even though at that beginning stage, my

cholestoral was elevated... which was a bit odd for a vegetarian woman of my

age and can be a clue towards hypOthyroidism).

Anyway, I ate fish for about 18 months, and felt various hyper symptoms

whenever I have had it since diagnosis and treatment with ATDs, so recently

gave it up again.

There are lots of possible contributions to the onset of my GD...

practically all the things that are listed anywhere, in conventional

doctors' texts and alternative stuff too, were present in my life prior to

the onset of hyperT for me, but I think diet definitely played a part.

Examples of the triggers in my life a year or two before going hyper: my age

- then 32,

a shocking bereavement,

chronic illness (gynae),

acute throat infection,

digestive problems,

loss of appetite pretty much for a year,

the use of contrast dye for a CT scan or two (!),

I gave up drinking beer (which has a high copper content)

and gave up smoking (I hear tell of other people at iThyroid who have

developed GD after giving up smoking),

a great deal of stress around post-graduate studies which were all tied up

with my immigrant status in Australia,

over-use of vitamins and minerals in an attempt to boost my immune system

(certainly did that),

suddenly following a macro-biotic diet containing seaweed for about six

months,

starting to eat fish,

starting to eat breakfatst for the first time in my life (I'm the only one

who thinks that one is significant, but it seemed to dramatically speed up

my metabolism),

promotion at work coupled with full time post-grad study,

my father falling ill and me consequently suddenly going to England.

I could go on! When I look back at the period before I got ill it is almost

comical how many different things were pointing me towards GD!

Oh, I have gone on and on! Can you tell I don't have a job!

DAWN ROSE

>From: anise_kennedy@...

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: graves_support

>Subject: Thanks Dawn/dietary iodine

>Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:47:45 -0000

>

>Hi Dawn

>

>

> It was sweet of you to dig out that stuff for me. Believe me I have

>been looking and the exact bit of information just doesn't seem

>to be there. I came across several different references to the

>piece you quote, Dawn, and to similar situations : seems to

>happen whereever they add iodine to the drinking water after

>people have been without enough iodine for a long time,-

>Switzerland, Ethiopia, Tasmania, etc. Some of the people who

>have developed goiters because their thyroids are badly out of

>wack on the iodine-deficiency then become mildly hyperthyroid in

>response to having plenty of iodine, and this is transient. But

>none of them talk about it triggering Graves Disease, only about

>it producing more symptoms in people who already have thyroid

>dysfuntion.

>

>You are right. I do find it annoying to have people make

>statements of fact like " 150mcg triggers Graves, " and put such

>things on the Net as fact but then not having any evidence for

>this. I am desperately seeking to understand, and this sort of

>thing is a major obstacle to me doing so.

>

>It seems the REAL story is that:

>1) iodinated thyroxine plus high levels of iodine in drinlking water

>induces Hashimotos thyroiditis in genetically susceptible mice.

>2) a switch from too litle to adequate iodine in the water can

>result in transient mild hyperthyroidism in some people with

>goitres

>3) Massive doses of iodine(mean dose 21GRAMS!) can result in

>thyrotoxicosis, also in people with underlaying thyroid disorders.

>4) the recommended daily allowance of iodine in the diet is 150

>mu g, and while less than 75mu g is bad for general health,

>more than 150mu g may in a small percentage of highly

>sensitive people exascerbate symptoms of thyroid disease.The

> " more than " may be a lot higher for almost everyone.

>

>I think we can drop the original statement about 150mu g

>inducing Graves Disease in genetically susceptible people as

>an urban myth, and if we love seafood each find the dose that

>suits us.

>

>The main thing I found out was that individuals vary considerably

>in their response to iodine, but it is essential to the diet to have

>enough and not too much: the right amount for your body. Just

>what Terry said in fact. It used to be a problem to get enough in

>places. Now the environment is full of it so it gets into the milk

>etc. I wonder if there are good iodine salts and bad ones too? If

>its not just a matter of cutting out all we can, but of trying to avoid

>the cleaners and dyes and whatever, but important to have the

>seafood ones?

>

>Dawn, do you find there are any seafoods that appeal or do you

>just hate them all because you see them as the cause of your

>sickness?

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dawn Rose:

Wow, how sweet of you to compile all that info!

It made me want to bring up something I've been wondering about. After I

was diagnosed with Graves', I decided not to start my ATD's until after I'd

had a vacation. I went to the Carribean for 3 weeks and was scuba diving

daily. I must have been in the ocean 6-8 hours a day, sans wetsuit. This

was also the time that I ingested up to 15 cokes daily and 12 candy bars.

I was a bit erratic, and my diving was scary enough to be of concern to the

divemasters, who had known me for years. I wonder if I was absorbing

idodine through my skin . . .