Deficiency signs that may appear with oxalate issues

[Guest guest]

Listmates

Oxalate impairs the function of biotin dependent enzymes in a way that can

improve by taking higher doses of biotin. Oxalate binds magnesium and calcium,

which can lead to ineffectual free levels of these minerals. Pantothenic acid

shares transport with biotin and lipoic acid, so its levels are important to

keep adequate when supplementing biotin or alpha lipoic acid.

Of course, there is some overlap in these symptoms. What is important is the

cluster of symptoms. My daughter had almost every biotin deficiency sign there

was when she was an infant.

A common problem in these lists is sleep. What we've seen on TLO is that the

sleep problem of waking up in the middle of the night fully awake and not being

able to get back to sleep is VERY specific to oxalate, no matter what patient

population we are talking about. This also happens during dumping in some

people.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Biotin:

candida

hypotonia

ataxia

hearing loss

skin rashes

hair loss

seizures

encephalopathy

neurodevelopmental delay

motor limb weakness

loss of visual acuity

Panthothenic acid:

impaired energy production

irritability

fatigue

apathy

numbness

paresthesia

muscle cramps

hypoglycemia

oversensitivity to insulin

restlessness

malaise

sleep disturbances

nausea

vomiting

abdominal cramps

adrenal insufficiency

hepatic encephalopathy.

painful burning sensations of the feet

reduced growth rate

decreased food intake

skin lesions

alterations in lipid and carbohydrate metabolism

Magnesium deficiency

loss of appetite

nausea

vomiting

fatigue

weakness

numbness

tingling

muscle contractions and cramps

tics

seizures

personality changes

abnormal heart rhythms

coronary spasms

hypocalcemia (low blood calcium)

hypokalemia (low blood potassium)

sleep disturbance (Loss of diurnal rhythm)

mitral valve prolapse

migraines

attention deficit disorder

fibromyalgia

asthma and allergies

Calcium Deficiency

Muscle cramps

Muscle aches

Muscle pain

Muscle twitching

Muscle spasms

Insomnia

Tooth decay

Weak bones

Reduced bone density

Rickets in children

Poor growth in children

Maldeveloped bones in children

Delayed puberty in teens

Menstrual problems in teens

Premenstrual cramps

Increased blood pressure

Pale skin

Listlessness

Dry scaly skin

Coarse hair

Brittle nails

Convulsions - in extreme cases

Easily fatigued

> >

> > Low oxalate diet

> >

> > take calcium OR magnesium prior to mealtimes (this is not to be considered

your

> > supplement, it is being used to bind to oxalate; your supplement, be it mag

or

> > cal, should be taken away from mealtime for the actual

> > supplementation/absorption),

> >

> >

> > consume higher dose biotin,

> >

> > use VSL#3 if you can (it contains strept strain and milk I believe) I

purchased

> > Custom Probiotics 11 strain b/c it does not contain strept but most of the

same

> > probiotics as VSL#3 (VSL#3 has been laboratory proven to degrade oxalate)

> >

> > --- Toni

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: Rhonda Balque <rhondabalque@>

> > To: mb12 valtrex

> > Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 7:53:13 AM

> > Subject: Oxalates

> >

> >

> > What's is the best way to decrease oxalates and oxaditative stress

> >

> > Sent from my iPod

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If my child's OAT reflects a mid-normal range of Oxylates is it unlikely he has an oxylate problem? Sent from my iPhone

Listmates

Oxalate impairs the function of biotin dependent enzymes in a way that can improve by taking higher doses of biotin. Oxalate binds magnesium and calcium, which can lead to ineffectual free levels of these minerals. Pantothenic acid shares transport with biotin and lipoic acid, so its levels are important to keep adequate when supplementing biotin or alpha lipoic acid.

Of course, there is some overlap in these symptoms. What is important is the cluster of symptoms. My daughter had almost every biotin deficiency sign there was when she was an infant.

A common problem in these lists is sleep. What we've seen on TLO is that the sleep problem of waking up in the middle of the night fully awake and not being able to get back to sleep is VERY specific to oxalate, no matter what patient population we are talking about. This also happens during dumping in some people.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Biotin:

candida

hypotonia

ataxia

hearing loss

skin rashes

hair loss

seizures

encephalopathy

neurodevelopmental delay

motor limb weakness

loss of visual acuity

Panthothenic acid:

impaired energy production

irritability

fatigue

apathy

numbness

paresthesia

muscle cramps

hypoglycemia

oversensitivity to insulin

restlessness

malaise

sleep disturbances

nausea

vomiting

abdominal cramps

adrenal insufficiency

hepatic encephalopathy.

painful burning sensations of the feet

reduced growth rate

decreased food intake

skin lesions

alterations in lipid and carbohydrate metabolism

Magnesium deficiency

loss of appetite

nausea

vomiting

fatigue

weakness

numbness

tingling

muscle contractions and cramps

tics

seizures

personality changes

abnormal heart rhythms

coronary spasms

hypocalcemia (low blood calcium)

hypokalemia (low blood potassium)

sleep disturbance (Loss of diurnal rhythm)

mitral valve prolapse

migraines

attention deficit disorder

fibromyalgia

asthma and allergies

Calcium Deficiency

Muscle cramps

Muscle aches

Muscle pain

Muscle twitching

Muscle spasms

Insomnia

Tooth decay

Weak bones

Reduced bone density

Rickets in children

Poor growth in children

Maldeveloped bones in children

Delayed puberty in teens

Menstrual problems in teens

Premenstrual cramps

Increased blood pressure

Pale skin

Listlessness

Dry scaly skin

Coarse hair

Brittle nails

Convulsions - in extreme cases

Easily fatigued

> >

> > Low oxalate diet

> >

> > take calcium OR magnesium prior to mealtimes (this is not to be considered your

> > supplement, it is being used to bind to oxalate; your supplement, be it mag or

> > cal, should be taken away from mealtime for the actual

> > supplementation/absorption),

> >

> >

> > consume higher dose biotin,

> >

> > use VSL#3 if you can (it contains strept strain and milk I believe) I purchased

> > Custom Probiotics 11 strain b/c it does not contain strept but most of the same

> > probiotics as VSL#3 (VSL#3 has been laboratory proven to degrade oxalate)

> >

> > --- Toni

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: Rhonda Balque <rhondabalque@>

> > To: mb12 valtrex

> > Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 7:53:13 AM

> > Subject: Oxalates

> >

> >

> > What's is the best way to decrease oxalates and oxaditative stress

> >

> > Sent from my iPod

> >

>

[Guest guest]

has a special calculator/spreadsheet that she uses, that is not the same scale of GPL.She put my daughter's values in and rather than "mid-range" they were more like 85%. So that means she has 85% higher oxalate value than other ASD kids. That's pretty freaking high. :-(Another way to tell if your kid has an oxalate problem is to look at the high ox list and determine if these are the foods your child craves. If so, chances are there is a problem. For whatever reason, our bodies crave toxins. :-( Maybe it's because the de-tox is so not-nice, our bodies try to keep us out of de-tox.I used to eat almonds by the 1/4 cup full, while breastfeeding. Loved spinach salad. Sesame dressing. I don't need a pee test to tell me I have an oxalate problem.;-) ---

ToniTo: "mb12 valtrex " <mb12 valtrex >Sent: Wed, September 22, 2010 10:01:53 AMSubject: Re: Deficiency signs that may appear with oxalate issues

If my child's OAT reflects a mid-normal range of Oxylates is it unlikely he has an oxylate problem? Sent from my iPhone

Listmates

Oxalate impairs the function of biotin dependent enzymes in a way that can improve by taking higher doses of biotin. Oxalate binds magnesium and calcium, which can lead to ineffectual free levels of these minerals. Pantothenic acid shares transport with biotin and lipoic acid, so its levels are important to keep adequate when supplementing biotin or alpha lipoic acid.

Of course, there is some overlap in these symptoms. What is important is the cluster of symptoms. My daughter had almost every biotin deficiency sign there was when she was an infant.

A common problem in these lists is sleep. What we've seen on TLO is that the sleep problem of waking up in the middle of the night fully awake and not being able to get back to sleep is VERY specific to oxalate, no matter what patient population we are talking about. This also happens during dumping in some people.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Biotin:

candida

hypotonia

ataxia

hearing loss

skin rashes

hair loss

seizures

encephalopathy

neurodevelopmental delay

motor limb weakness

loss of visual acuity

Panthothenic acid:

impaired energy production

irritability

fatigue

apathy

numbness

paresthesia

muscle cramps

hypoglycemia

oversensitivity to insulin

restlessness

malaise

sleep disturbances

nausea

vomiting

abdominal cramps

adrenal insufficiency

hepatic encephalopathy.

painful burning sensations of the feet

reduced growth rate

decreased food intake

skin lesions

alterations in lipid and carbohydrate metabolism

Magnesium deficiency

loss of appetite

nausea

vomiting

fatigue

weakness

numbness

tingling

muscle contractions and cramps

tics

seizures

personality changes

abnormal heart rhythms

coronary spasms

hypocalcemia (low blood calcium)

hypokalemia (low blood potassium)

sleep disturbance (Loss of diurnal rhythm)

mitral valve prolapse

migraines

attention deficit disorder

fibromyalgia

asthma and allergies

Calcium Deficiency

Muscle cramps

Muscle aches

Muscle pain

Muscle twitching

Muscle spasms

Insomnia

Tooth decay

Weak bones

Reduced bone density

Rickets in children

Poor growth in children

Maldeveloped bones in children

Delayed puberty in teens

Menstrual problems in teens

Premenstrual cramps

Increased blood pressure

Pale skin

Listlessness

Dry scaly skin

Coarse hair

Brittle nails

Convulsions - in extreme cases

Easily fatigued

> >

> > Low oxalate diet

> >

> > take calcium OR magnesium prior to mealtimes (this is not to be considered your

> > supplement, it is being used to bind to oxalate; your supplement, be it mag or

> > cal, should be taken away from mealtime for the actual

> > supplementation/absorption),

> >

> >

> > consume higher dose biotin,

> >

> > use VSL#3 if you can (it contains strept strain and milk I believe) I purchased

> > Custom Probiotics 11 strain b/c it does not contain strept but most of the same

> > probiotics as VSL#3 (VSL#3 has been laboratory proven to degrade oxalate)

> >

> > --- Toni

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: Rhonda Balque <rhondabalque@>

> > To: mb12 valtrex

> > Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 7:53:13 AM

> > Subject: Oxalates

> >

> >

> > What's is the best way to decrease oxalates and oxaditative stress

> >

> > Sent from my iPod

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The foods on the list are not ones he craves. He is a carb head - anything sweet or starchy- hence the OAT Candida markers which were 20 times the normal high in one case: tartaric acid. He is on diflucan now- will die off ever end? 2 weeks now. Sent from my iPhone

has a special calculator/spreadsheet that she uses, that is not the same scale of GPL.She put my daughter's values in and rather than "mid-range" they were more like 85%. So that means she has 85% higher oxalate value than other ASD kids. That's pretty freaking high. :-(Another way to tell if your kid has an oxalate problem is to look at the high ox list and determine if these are the foods your child craves. If so, chances are there is a problem. For whatever reason, our bodies crave toxins. :-( Maybe it's because the de-tox is so not-nice, our bodies try to keep us out of de-tox.I used to eat almonds by the 1/4 cup full, while breastfeeding. Loved spinach salad. Sesame dressing. I don't need a pee test to tell me I have an oxalate problem.;-) ---

ToniTo: "mb12 valtrex " <mb12 valtrex >Sent: Wed, September 22, 2010 10:01:53 AMSubject: Re: Deficiency signs that may appear with oxalate issues

If my child's OAT reflects a mid-normal range of Oxylates is it unlikely he has an oxylate problem? Sent from my iPhone

Listmates

Oxalate impairs the function of biotin dependent enzymes in a way that can improve by taking higher doses of biotin. Oxalate binds magnesium and calcium, which can lead to ineffectual free levels of these minerals. Pantothenic acid shares transport with biotin and lipoic acid, so its levels are important to keep adequate when supplementing biotin or alpha lipoic acid.

Of course, there is some overlap in these symptoms. What is important is the cluster of symptoms. My daughter had almost every biotin deficiency sign there was when she was an infant.

A common problem in these lists is sleep. What we've seen on TLO is that the sleep problem of waking up in the middle of the night fully awake and not being able to get back to sleep is VERY specific to oxalate, no matter what patient population we are talking about. This also happens during dumping in some people.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Biotin:

candida

hypotonia

ataxia

hearing loss

skin rashes

hair loss

seizures

encephalopathy

neurodevelopmental delay

motor limb weakness

loss of visual acuity

Panthothenic acid:

impaired energy production

irritability

fatigue

apathy

numbness

paresthesia

muscle cramps

hypoglycemia

oversensitivity to insulin

restlessness

malaise

sleep disturbances

nausea

vomiting

abdominal cramps

adrenal insufficiency

hepatic encephalopathy.

painful burning sensations of the feet

reduced growth rate

decreased food intake

skin lesions

alterations in lipid and carbohydrate metabolism

Magnesium deficiency

loss of appetite

nausea

vomiting

fatigue

weakness

numbness

tingling

muscle contractions and cramps

tics

seizures

personality changes

abnormal heart rhythms

coronary spasms

hypocalcemia (low blood calcium)

hypokalemia (low blood potassium)

sleep disturbance (Loss of diurnal rhythm)

mitral valve prolapse

migraines

attention deficit disorder

fibromyalgia

asthma and allergies

Calcium Deficiency

Muscle cramps

Muscle aches

Muscle pain

Muscle twitching

Muscle spasms

Insomnia

Tooth decay

Weak bones

Reduced bone density

Rickets in children

Poor growth in children

Maldeveloped bones in children

Delayed puberty in teens

Menstrual problems in teens

Premenstrual cramps

Increased blood pressure

Pale skin

Listlessness

Dry scaly skin

Coarse hair

Brittle nails

Convulsions - in extreme cases

Easily fatigued

> >

> > Low oxalate diet

> >

> > take calcium OR magnesium prior to mealtimes (this is not to be considered your

> > supplement, it is being used to bind to oxalate; your supplement, be it mag or

> > cal, should be taken away from mealtime for the actual

> > supplementation/absorption),

> >

> >

> > consume higher dose biotin,

> >

> > use VSL#3 if you can (it contains strept strain and milk I believe) I purchased

> > Custom Probiotics 11 strain b/c it does not contain strept but most of the same

> > probiotics as VSL#3 (VSL#3 has been laboratory proven to degrade oxalate)

> >

> > --- Toni

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: Rhonda Balque <rhondabalque@>

> > To: mb12 valtrex

> > Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 7:53:13 AM

> > Subject: Oxalates

> >

> >

> > What's is the best way to decrease oxalates and oxaditative stress

> >

> > Sent from my iPod

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

You asked:

> If my child's OAT reflects a mid-normal range of Oxylates is it unlikely he

has an oxylate problem?

>

The testing you got is not likely to tell you that a child does NOT have an

oxalate problem. Let me tell you why.

This has not been throughly researched to my standards yet, but Dr. s

studying women with vulvar pain measured their oxalate level in urine every time

they peed for a whole day, and he had the women keep a chart of how their vulvar

pain was doing at each collection and the two sets of information were graphed

together, so you could detect a pattern in the association.

He found that there were differences among these women in that their oxalate

level was high in maybe only one of the collections, but in that collection, it

was extemely high. These women would end up being clinical responders to the

diet, but their first morning urine was normal.

The " time " of this higher oxalate secretion was not consistent over the

population he studied, but it tended to happen at about the same time of day in

the same person on repeat tests.

We used this same test on those in our pilot study but after that batch, Dr.

s permanently closed his lab as he was retiring from that work. In the

pilot group of children with autism, we found " periodic hyperoxaluria " , so yes,

some times of day their levels were normal, but other times extremely high.

Instead of noting vulvar pain on the day of the collections, we had them rather

record when in the day at the times of collection the child had behavioral

issues.

In autism, the behavioral issues tended to show up at the time of the collection

BEFORE the one that was high oxalate. Our interpretation of that data was that

the issue in autism was when the oxalate was absorbed or was in the gut and

affecting its happiness, but it was not like the vulvar pain ladies, higher at

the time it accumulated in the kidney and was peed out. It is a little hard to

extend the data from that pilot study too far, because we had selected for

children with autism who had urinary or pain issues, and in the long run, that

did not describe the majority of those who ended up responding to the diet.

The organic acid tests tend to be done at the beginning of the day, so after a

long fast. If the oxalate is coming from the diet, maybe that collection might

miss that " peak " .

I received two studies from a researcher in Norway who found in her normal

healthy controls that the levels of oxalate during the day stayed the same.

We can imagine that only those who are detoxing oxalate that has gotten higher

in the blood are likely to be those with " uneven secretion " that may have a

diurnal rhythm to it.

Because of these issues, since the beginning of our project, I've said that I

didn't believe the urine test could say you DIDN'T have an oxalate problem, but

if the oxalate is elevated on that test, that it does tell you that oxalate has

been in your body doing potential harm. So it can tell if some people have a

problem but it cannot be relied upon to tell you that you don't have a problem.

I tried to get some of the autism labs to pick up this periodic hyperoxaluria

test, but no one was interested. One lab confirmed the issue that I have heard

time and time again from scientific laboratories that found problems with the

repeatability of measuring oxalate from the same sample. IT is tough. Oxalate

is so reactive that repeat tests on the same sample tend not to give the same

result.

This is why, after our project had monitored what was happening in the first few

hundred kids on the diet, we noticed that it was very quick that cutting back

oxalate to about half of a normal diet led to noticeable symptoms, ie, first a

" honeymoon " when the child was better for a day or two, and then " the dump " ,

when they had symptoms. This experience was almost universal in those who ended

up responding to the diet. We really got to thinking that THIS was a better way

to predict the relevance of the diet than the lab test!

Since then, Dr. Clavera in Spain who puts all her ASD kids on reduced oxalate,

told me that there is a group of children who test low on their first OAT, and

they also don't seem to dump at first, but after a period on the diet, they will

dump like everyone else, and only THEN after they start dumping do they start to

see the improvements from the diet. This is just what she told me!

So, you can see why we have not relied on those tests.

But what we have thought is that if you are NOT hyperabsorbing oxalate from the

gut, then reducing the dietary amount of oxalate should be a relative non-event.

It may be that those with delayed dumping had absorbed the oxalate that is

affecting their body at a different time in their life, so that it is still

there to detoxify, but not as tied to their current diet or situation. For that

population, probably the probiotics like VSL#3 may help the body start to

detoxify.

Does that help? Great question!

>

> If my child's OAT reflects a mid-normal range of Oxylates is it unlikely he

has an oxylate problem?

>

> Sent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

I'm relatively new and this is a completely foreign languate to me. What is an

oxalate, a biotin, etc. - how does one determine the levels? Mine had sleep

problems at night that seemed to disapear when we removed gluten. Wondering if

something else could be involved...

> > >

> > > Low oxalate diet

> > >

> > > take calcium OR magnesium prior to mealtimes (this is not to be considered

your

> > > supplement, it is being used to bind to oxalate; your supplement, be it

mag or

> > > cal, should be taken away from mealtime for the actual

> > > supplementation/absorption),

> > >

> > >

> > > consume higher dose biotin,

> > >

> > > use VSL#3 if you can (it contains strept strain and milk I believe) I

purchased

> > > Custom Probiotics 11 strain b/c it does not contain strept but most of the

same

> > > probiotics as VSL#3 (VSL#3 has been laboratory proven to degrade oxalate)

> > >

> > > --- Toni

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: Rhonda Balque <rhondabalque@>

> > > To: mb12 valtrex

> > > Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 7:53:13 AM

> > > Subject: Oxalates

> > >

> > >

> > > What's is the best way to decrease oxalates and oxaditative stress

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPod

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, a lot of things could be involved in the sleep issues.Oxalate is a substance that plants manufacture for themselves to protect against insects. In large amounts it is toxic. In any amount, esp. with those who have Leaky Gut, the oxalate can get into the cells instead of being carried out as waste.Oxalate inside the cells will impair mitochondrial function.If you want to read about it, here http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/oxalates.asp and here http://www.lowoxalate.info are good places.There is a mailing list like this one

called trying_low_oxalates also. who posted below runs the list.Biotin is a B vitamin. If you go to the Vitamin Shoppe, you will find it in the B Vitamin section. --- ToniTo: mb12 valtrex Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 5:35:45 PMSubject: Re: Deficiency signs that may appear with oxalate issues

I'm relatively new and this is a completely foreign languate to me. What is an oxalate, a biotin, etc. - how does one determine the levels? Mine had sleep problems at night that seemed to disapear when we removed gluten. Wondering if something else could be involved...

> > >

> > > Low oxalate diet

> > >

> > > take calcium OR magnesium prior to mealtimes (this is not to be considered your

> > > supplement, it is being used to bind to oxalate; your supplement, be it mag or

> > > cal, should be taken away from mealtime for the actual

> > > supplementation/absorption),

> > >

> > >

> > > consume higher dose biotin,

> > >

> > > use VSL#3 if you can (it contains strept strain and milk I believe) I purchased

> > > Custom Probiotics 11 strain b/c it does not contain strept but most of the same

> > > probiotics as VSL#3 (VSL#3 has been laboratory proven to degrade oxalate)

> > >

> > > --- Toni

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: Rhonda Balque <rhondabalque@>

> > > To: mb12 valtrex

> > > Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 7:53:13 AM

> > > Subject: Oxalates

> > >

> > >

> > > What's is the best way to decrease oxalates and oxaditative stress

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPod

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Buenanina, (I love that name. Is it a grandmother name?)

Well, this is a whole different thread of autism research, so there is a bit of

a learning curve here as there is for all of the different therapies, but let me

see what I can do to define some things for you.

As Toni so graciously replied, oxalate is a simple but very reactive chemical

that plants make in order to defend themselves against insect predators. I saw

a presentation in Houston by an oxalate scientist who had modified a plant that

caterpillars eat to remove the gene that made oxalate, and after the plant

didn't make oxalate, that caterpillar would strip the plant until all that was

left was the stick. This caterpillar might start munching on the

oxalate-containing version of the plant, but would stop quickly. The scientists

dissected the caterpillars who tried to eat the oxalate-containing plant and

found their teeth were broken and down to nubs, which is why they stopped eating

it!

I guess it is a good thing that not all plants make large amounts of oxalate, or

we would have nothing to safely eat!

Our bodies are adapted to eat oxalate when everything is working the way it was

designed. Our flora are supposed to have a microbe called oxalobacter

formigenes that only eats oxalate and cannot survive on anything else, but it

has been frequently killed back by antiobiotics that are used routinely. Also,

most of the calcium that enters the gut from food (80%) stays in the colon and

it is available to bind free oxalate and that keeps the oxalate from being

absorbed in the colon. Casein contains a lot of calcium, so when someone is

casein-free, the amount of calcium they get from the rest of the diet is

reduced, so there is less calcium there to bind the oxalate that is in the diet.

Taking calcium as a supplement before meals helps to remedy or at least help

that situation, but timing is everything!

Once oxalate has been absorbed through the colon or through a leaky gut anywhere

in the GI tract, it circulates through the blood and can enter cells, especially

cells that are looking for sulfate, for it hitches a ride into cells using the

sulfate transporter. If you are low in sulfate and high in oxalate, this is a

problem!

Once inside cells, oxalate inhibits many enzymes, and almost all enzymes it is

known to bind are enzymes that contribute to our energy or mitochondrial

function. Key members of that group of inhibited enzymes are the ones that use

biotin.

Biotin is a sulfur-containing vitamin that you get both from food and from

bacteria that live in the gut. Oxalate inserts itself next to biotin in the

active site of these enzymes, and shuts down the operation of the enzyme.

Because of which enzymes are involved, this affects our ability to use glucose,

to make glucose, to make ATP, to regulate our fatty acid metabolism, and to run

the Krebs cycle.

Scientists learned that the inhibition of these enzymes could be diminished by

giving high doses of biotin. What we've learned on our listserve, is that in

children with autism who definitely have oxalate issues, sometimes it takes

biotin supplements even greater than 20 mgs. a day to overcome the enzyme

inhibition.

A lot of the leakiness of the gut goes away when people first remove gluten from

the diet. This seems to help many children gain gut integrity so that they

won't absorb as much oxalate.

Ordinarily, people only absorb 1-2% of the oxalate in their diet, but if you

have a leaky gut, that level can get as high as 50%. A normal diet has about

100 mgs of oxalate per day, so a healthy gut would only absorb 1-2 mgs. An

unhealthy gut would absorb as much as 50 mgs. on a normal diet.

With the low oxalate diet, in adults, we cut back the oxalate that is eaten to

40-60 mgs a day, and in children less proportionately. This is not as big a

deal as you would think, but it seems a big hurdle if someone has decided that

human beings were designed to have spinach as a daily member of the diet!

I have heard of some implementations of SCD, for instance, that may have been as

high as 400 mgs/day or four times a normal diet. On gf/cf, the vast majority of

oxalate is likely to come from eating too many baked goods (although starch

itself is not very high) but whole grains and brans are very high). They also

may eat too many chocolate goodies, and way too high a quantity of milk

substitutes. Every milk substitute but coconut milk and chestnut milk are very

high oxalate, even in just one cup.

Buenanina, I think a lot of this would become much easier to grasp if you read

the following mini-paper about the leaky gut that was written for parents and

others who are new to all these concepts:

www.lowoxalate.info/papers/mechanisms.html

I hope that helps you!

>

> I'm relatively new and this is a completely foreign languate to me. What is an

oxalate, a biotin, etc. - how does one determine the levels? Mine had sleep

problems at night that seemed to disapear when we removed gluten. Wondering if

something else could be involved...

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,So, can we take calcium, digestive enzyme and biotin before meal ?Regards,Subject: Re: Deficiency signs that may appear with oxalate issuesTo: mb12 valtrex Date: Friday, 24 September, 2010, 10:52 AM

Buenanina, (I love that name. Is it a grandmother name?)

Well, this is a whole different thread of autism research, so there is a bit of a learning curve here as there is for all of the different therapies, but let me see what I can do to define some things for you.

As Toni so graciously replied, oxalate is a simple but very reactive chemical that plants make in order to defend themselves against insect predators. I saw a presentation in Houston by an oxalate scientist who had modified a plant that caterpillars eat to remove the gene that made oxalate, and after the plant didn't make oxalate, that caterpillar would strip the plant until all that was left was the stick. This caterpillar might start munching on the oxalate-containing version of the plant, but would stop quickly. The scientists dissected the caterpillars who tried to eat the oxalate-containing plant and found their teeth were broken and down to nubs, which is why they stopped eating it!

I guess it is a good thing that not all plants make large amounts of oxalate, or we would have nothing to safely eat!

Our bodies are adapted to eat oxalate when everything is working the way it was designed. Our flora are supposed to have a microbe called oxalobacter formigenes that only eats oxalate and cannot survive on anything else, but it has been frequently killed back by antiobiotics that are used routinely. Also, most of the calcium that enters the gut from food (80%) stays in the colon and it is available to bind free oxalate and that keeps the oxalate from being absorbed in the colon. Casein contains a lot of calcium, so when someone is casein-free, the amount of calcium they get from the rest of the diet is reduced, so there is less calcium there to bind the oxalate that is in the diet. Taking calcium as a supplement before meals helps to remedy or at least help that situation, but timing is everything!

Once oxalate has been absorbed through the colon or through a leaky gut anywhere in the GI tract, it circulates through the blood and can enter cells, especially cells that are looking for sulfate, for it hitches a ride into cells using the sulfate transporter. If you are low in sulfate and high in oxalate, this is a problem!

Once inside cells, oxalate inhibits many enzymes, and almost all enzymes it is known to bind are enzymes that contribute to our energy or mitochondrial function. Key members of that group of inhibited enzymes are the ones that use biotin.

Biotin is a sulfur-containing vitamin that you get both from food and from bacteria that live in the gut. Oxalate inserts itself next to biotin in the active site of these enzymes, and shuts down the operation of the enzyme.

Because of which enzymes are involved, this affects our ability to use glucose, to make glucose, to make ATP, to regulate our fatty acid metabolism, and to run the Krebs cycle.

Scientists learned that the inhibition of these enzymes could be diminished by giving high doses of biotin. What we've learned on our listserve, is that in children with autism who definitely have oxalate issues, sometimes it takes biotin supplements even greater than 20 mgs. a day to overcome the enzyme inhibition.

A lot of the leakiness of the gut goes away when people first remove gluten from the diet. This seems to help many children gain gut integrity so that they won't absorb as much oxalate.

Ordinarily, people only absorb 1-2% of the oxalate in their diet, but if you have a leaky gut, that level can get as high as 50%. A normal diet has about 100 mgs of oxalate per day, so a healthy gut would only absorb 1-2 mgs. An unhealthy gut would absorb as much as 50 mgs. on a normal diet.

With the low oxalate diet, in adults, we cut back the oxalate that is eaten to 40-60 mgs a day, and in children less proportionately. This is not as big a deal as you would think, but it seems a big hurdle if someone has decided that human beings were designed to have spinach as a daily member of the diet!

I have heard of some implementations of SCD, for instance, that may have been as high as 400 mgs/day or four times a normal diet. On gf/cf, the vast majority of oxalate is likely to come from eating too many baked goods (although starch itself is not very high) but whole grains and brans are very high). They also may eat too many chocolate goodies, and way too high a quantity of milk substitutes. Every milk substitute but coconut milk and chestnut milk are very high oxalate, even in just one cup.

Buenanina, I think a lot of this would become much easier to grasp if you read the following mini-paper about the leaky gut that was written for parents and others who are new to all these concepts: www.lowoxalate.info/papers/mechanisms.html

I hope that helps you!

>

> I'm relatively new and this is a completely foreign languate to me. What is an oxalate, a biotin, etc. - how does one determine the levels? Mine had sleep problems at night that seemed to disapear when we removed gluten. Wondering if something else could be involved...

>

[Guest guest]

I'm trying to understand the Biotin part of this? I think I understand that

Calcium attaches to the oxylates and moves them along. But, does the Biotin act

as a bad guy and sneak the oxylate into the cell? I'm thinking my guy is Biotin

deficient because of scaly scalp? When would he take it?

Martha

>

> >

>

> > I'm relatively new and this is a completely foreign languate to me. What is

an oxalate, a biotin, etc. - how does one determine the levels? Mine had sleep

problems at night that seemed to disapear when we removed gluten. Wondering if

something else could be involved...

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for explaining! Hahaha - no, it is not a grandmother's name but

my tex-mex version of our last name (Goodchild). How do you know the levels

and what a person might need other than going to a dr for a blood test? Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Thank you for explaining! Hahaha - no, it is not a grandmother's name but

my tex-mex version of our last name (Goodchild). How do you know the levels

and what a person might need other than going to a dr for a blood test? Thanks!