Re: TraumaDEX

December 30, 2003

Before everyone writes an answer to a simple question, it seems as though

many of you jump on a computer board and just start writing crud that isn't

true,

or you haven't researched and couldn't care less whom or what product you

denounce.

Six threads later, you have gone through 3 products and still don't know if

you have the right one or not.

In Beaumont, we received a partial grant with Vidor Fire Department and are

using the product, TraumaDEX. It has not caused any abnormal heat, it is a

potato starch derivative and it works great.

True Fact : it is expensive and we will not buy it for that reason. Ours is

free to rate it.

We should all be a little slower on the answers to questions that pertain to

something you have never used and just heard about.

Andy Foote\

EMS Manager

Beaumont

December 30, 2003

Look at this from an outcome standpoint. You should be able to stop 95% of

bleeding you see in the field with direct pressure. The remaining 5% will

require pressure point or tourniquet. The TraumaDEX will not stop

high-volume bleeding so it will simply stop bleeding in cases where direct

pressure will work. Furthermore, it does generate heat and can cause tissue

damage and requires more than usual debridement in the ED. Plus, it is

expensive. What is the advantage? The ideal use for it would be in a mass

casualty situation or battlefield and the Army is finding it unacceptable.

Perhaps we should go back to heating a hot poker and cauterizing the wound.

This is another EMS device in search of an indication.

Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[http://www.bryanbledsoe.com]

TraumaDEX

I had a salesman come by today and try to sell me some TraumaDEX,

which is, by many accounts, a revolutionary new hemostatic compound

to control bleeding from lacerations, punctures, abrasions, etc.

I was just wondering if anybody on the list has had any experience

with it.

phil

December 30, 2003

I am trying to figure out how the TraumaDex can get hot - it is straight

potato starch and nothing else. We have used it once in our clinic next

door - radial artery cut. It worked wonderfully in controlling the bleeding

until the artery itself was sutured. The patient did not complain of any

heat or discomfort from the substance. Are you sure it was Traumadex or that

other product that the Army was trying - can't recall the name of the other

stuff....

Jane Hill

December 30, 2003

In a message dated 12/30/2003 7:14:15 PM Central Standard Time,

rsdrn@... writes:

Nice rant. But I believe the original question was for us to share our

Personal experiences and observations with the product. Since you have

such experience, and have gotten your frustration off your chest, can

You now share your experiences with us?

Rob

It was a nice rant and you did not come back at anyone that was ranting about

how direct pressure, or it got too hot, or blah, blah about it. I cant rant

like everyone else. I am sorry that I did not know my place on this ranting

scale or I don't have the credentials to rant with the big boys.

The product does work. It works good. It stops a big open bleed and it does

not interfere with the treatment at the hospital. It does not make whipped

or mashed potato's. The hospital has not had a problem with removing it and

treating the wound. It will stop arterial bleed and you do not have to sit and

hold direct pressure on it. You can be doing something else. It, however, is

not practical to 90% of the EMS systems that I know, because of the cost. It

is tremendously expensive for just being a starch derivative. I do not know

how much more information you want. I hope someday to be able to rant with

the big boys but like I have written many times before on this wonderful email

address, you better not disagree with anyone, cause you regulars will just eat

people alive. I write very infrequently but I watch how you all jump on a

bandwagon and drag anyone who disagrees with you through the troughs of life.

Andy

December 30, 2003

Perhaps the Army is using Quick Clot. I always get the two mixed up. The

Army found Quick Clot better

http://www.allmed.net/specials/QuikClot/ResearchPaper.pdf.

Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[http://www.bryanbledsoe.com]

Re: TraumaDEX

I am trying to figure out how the TraumaDex can get hot - it is straight

potato starch and nothing else. We have used it once in our clinic next

door - radial artery cut. It worked wonderfully in controlling the bleeding

until the artery itself was sutured. The patient did not complain of any

heat or discomfort from the substance. Are you sure it was Traumadex or

that

other product that the Army was trying - can't recall the name of the other

stuff....

Jane Hill

December 30, 2003

I recently had a conversation with a PA from Fort Sam in San about

this. His information is that both seem to be in use, the TraumaDEX (or

similar product) limited to acute abdominal bleeds (open). His assessment

was that it wasn't used very often, but a lifesaver when you need it. He

also seemed to feel like it was first generation of something better to come

down the pike in the future.

Mack

-- Re: TraumaDEX

I am trying to figure out how the TraumaDex can get hot - it is straight

potato starch and nothing else. We have used it once in our clinic next

door - radial artery cut. It worked wonderfully in controlling the bleeding

until the artery itself was sutured. The patient did not complain of any

heat or discomfort from the substance. Are you sure it was Traumadex or

that

other product that the Army was trying - can't recall the name of the other

stuff....

Jane Hill

December 30, 2003

rachfoote@... wrote:

> Before everyone writes an answer to a simple question, it seems as though

> many of you jump on a computer board and just start writing crud that

> isn't true,

> or you haven't researched and couldn't care less whom or what product you

> denounce.

Niec rant. But I believe the original question was for us to share our

personal experiences and observations with the product. Since you have

such experience, and have gotten your frustration off your chest, can

you now share your experiences with us?

Rob

December 30, 2003

Good going Andy. I had not even heard of the product before. I was not one

of the posters. The product sounds interesting but you say it seems

expensive and you are usually correct. So I think I will just stick to red

pepper and spider webs.

thanks

Re: TraumaDEX

> Before everyone writes an answer to a simple question, it seems as though

> many of you jump on a computer board and just start writing crud that

isn't true,

> or you haven't researched and couldn't care less whom or what product you

> denounce.

>

> Six threads later, you have gone through 3 products and still don't know

if

> you have the right one or not.

>

> In Beaumont, we received a partial grant with Vidor Fire Department and

are

> using the product, TraumaDEX. It has not caused any abnormal heat, it is

a

> potato starch derivative and it works great.

>

> True Fact : it is expensive and we will not buy it for that reason. Ours

is

> free to rate it.

>

> We should all be a little slower on the answers to questions that pertain

to

> something you have never used and just heard about.

>

> Andy Foote\

> EMS Manager

> Beaumont

>

December 30, 2003

rachfoote@... wrote:

>

> It was a nice rant and you did not come back at anyone that was ranting

> about

> how direct pressure, or it got too hot, or blah, blah about it. I cant

> rant

> like everyone else.

Everybody gets to rant, you included. And I will happily listen to and

learn from your rants. My point is that if you are going to rant about

those you feel were giving incorrect information, the least you could do

is take to give the correct information. After all, that is what

asked for in the first place. Instead you teased us with the fact that

you had relevant experience, yet passed on the opportunity to share it

with us.

That said, I appreciate that you did come back with a great post which

elaborated on your experiences. I for one learned from it.

Rob

December 31, 2003

Now THAT's a thought. LOL

I know the TraumaDex is in dry flake/powder form. I also know that since it

is a natural potato starch, it doesn't require any debridement usually. The

body normally absorbs and processes it easily.

I don't know anything else about its use - that was the only time in our

system yet it was used. But it was successful enough though that our Medical

Director wants us to keep it available on the truck and for them to borrow in

the clinic again if needed.

Jane Hill

December 31, 2003

Now THAT's a thought. LOL

I know the TraumaDex is in dry flake/powder form. I also know that since it

is a natural potato starch, it doesn't require any debridement usually. The

body normally absorbs and processes it easily.

I don't know anything else about its use - that was the only time in our

system yet it was used. But it was successful enough though that our Medical

Director wants us to keep it available on the truck and for them to borrow in

the clinic again if needed.

Jane Hill

December 31, 2003

If I am not mistaken, the Dermabond doesn't have that sizzling pain with it

that regular super glue does.... LOL

Jane Hill

December 31, 2003

If I am not mistaken, the Dermabond doesn't have that sizzling pain with it

that regular super glue does.... LOL

Jane Hill

December 31, 2003

Our Nurse Practitioner who used the product with my crews assistance said

that the bleeding at the site on this patient's arm was so fast and

excessive, that they could not get it to slow down enough with direct

pressure and pressure point to even see to suture the vessel. They put in

the trauma dex and continued to hold pressure point and direct pressure, and

noted that the bleeding slowed enough where she could then view the site

enough to suture the vessel and stop the bleeding. This was in a very Rural

Clinic with clinic staff and EMS staff both working on the patient. We had a

sample of traumadex that the crew thought to go and grab, and it worked. So

we just keep a tube on each truck and a couple in stock. We have not used it

since, and the incidence that we would use it in our low trauma percentage

county is rare, so the cost is really minimal to keep some of it around just

in case.

I think that the usual methods work in most cases to control bleeding, and I

don't anticipate us using it except on the rare situation. I know of one

other call we had where we could have used it on a head lac that direct

pressure would not control. We have pics of the back of the ambulance awash

with blood despite direct pressure and lots of dressings and such. But I see

a need for us to keep a little around in case enough where we have it stashed

on each unit.

Jane Hill

December 31, 2003