RE: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

June 2, 2009

One thing to point out, concerning whether or not it is better for a type 1 to

take less insulin is, as a former member named used to say, and I don't

think I have this exactly right was, lower insulin, lower problems; larger

insulin, larger problems. Harry, do you remember exactly what that little

phrase was?

Dave

A wise man's heart guides his mouth, and his lips promote instruction. (Proverbs

16:23)

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

yep, I understand that, but is less insulin even better for type 1's, I mean

would it not be better to only have to take 10 units instad of 20.

I know that a type 1 can never be free of insulin.

sorry just asking so that I learn too.

are there not type 2's that are fully reliant on insulin because their pan

is no longer functioning at all, because of the long term damage.

I do not remember what test it was, but I know that she told me that it

showed that my pan was not fully at full function.

can type 2's become type 1?

I ask all this, because I really want to do all I can to keep things at

bay.

When she put me on insulin, I thought that meant I would never come off of

it again, but here I am four years later...

I also fear how hard it is on my body to go on and off the insulin.

I have learned that, no matter if I am on insulin or not, my diet for the

rest of my life will have to be very strick and watched.

Kell

MSN: Kell@...

Skype: KlarssonNY

" I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know

that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that

differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute. " -- West

June 2, 2009

/dave,

Real close but, unfortunately, I can't remember either. (LOL)It was more

like " big amount, big mistakes, little amounts, little mistakes. "

I'll bet someone (like Harry or Pat) will set both of us straight. (LOL)

By the way, anyone heard from ?

Cy, The Anasazi.

_____

From: blind-diabetics

[mailto:blind-diabetics ] On Behalf Of dave Bond

Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:55 AM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

One thing to point out, concerning whether or not it is better for a type 1

to take less insulin is, as a former member named used to say, and I

don't think I have this exactly right was, lower insulin, lower problems;

larger insulin, larger problems. Harry, do you remember exactly what that

little phrase was?

Dave

A wise man's heart guides his mouth, and his lips promote instruction.

(Proverbs 16:23)

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

yep, I understand that, but is less insulin even better for type 1's, I mean

would it not be better to only have to take 10 units instad of 20.

I know that a type 1 can never be free of insulin.

sorry just asking so that I learn too.

are there not type 2's that are fully reliant on insulin because their pan

is no longer functioning at all, because of the long term damage.

I do not remember what test it was, but I know that she told me that it

showed that my pan was not fully at full function.

can type 2's become type 1?

I ask all this, because I really want to do all I can to keep things at

bay.

When she put me on insulin, I thought that meant I would never come off of

it again, but here I am four years later...

I also fear how hard it is on my body to go on and off the insulin.

I have learned that, no matter if I am on insulin or not, my diet for the

rest of my life will have to be very strick and watched.

Kell

MSN: Kellalstown (DOT) <mailto:Kell%40alstown.com> com

Skype: KlarssonNY

" I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know

that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that

differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute. " -- West

June 2, 2009

I think this is from Dr. Bernstein actually ...

Something about small inputs, small outputs, equals small mistakes. If

someone has a copy of his book, I think it's in there.

Jen

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

One thing to point out, concerning whether or not it is better for a type 1

to take less insulin is, as a former member named used to say, and I

don't think I have this exactly right was, lower insulin, lower problems;

larger insulin, larger problems. Harry, do you remember exactly what that

little phrase was?

Dave

A wise man's heart guides his mouth, and his lips promote instruction.

(Proverbs 16:23)

June 2, 2009

The less insulin a type 2 has to take, is better. But type 1's need what

they need in order to cover what they eat and not gain weight. Type 1's

make zero insulin, whicle type 2's make some (although thte may vary).

Losing weight makes the body use what insulin is available muh better, so

the injectable insulin requirements may go down. I have a man in my

diabetic class at Braille who was on large doses of insulin, but lost losts

of weight and does weight lifting daily, so he no longer needs insulin.

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

sorry just adding in my two cents, that was what I told my doctor today, is

why fix what is not broke, but her point with me is the less insulin a

person can be on the better. I would think that is the same for type 1's

too.

Kell

MSN: Kellalstown (DOT) <mailto:Kell%40alstown.com> com

Skype: KlarssonNY

" I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know

that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that

differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute. " -- West

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

So if I'm reading this right, Symlin is taken in conjunction with Humalog

(or fast acting insulin). Is this correct? IF so, I for one am not overly

anxious to try it. I take a minimum of 4 injections now, and really don't

want to add 2 or 3 more. I think Symlin would be especially helpful to

people who are really struggling with blood sugar control though. From the

sounds of it, for these folks, this form of insulin may be just what they

need.

Thanks very much Jen for the very informative article.

Dave

A wise man's heart guides his mouth, and his lips promote instruction.

(Proverbs 16:23)

June 2, 2009

Right Dan. But if a diabetic does not eat large amounts of carbs and still

needs what some people call large amounts of insulin, then so be it. What

is large anyway?

Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

Someone offered:

" One thing to point out, concerning whether or not it is better for a type

1 to take less insulin is, as a former member named used to say, and

I don't think I have this exactly right was, lower insulin, lower problems;

larger

insulin, larger problems. Harry, do you remember exactly what that little

phrase was? "

Me:

He was following the insight of Dr. Bernstein regarding the theory of large

and small numbers. If one eats large amounts of carbs one must use large

amounts of insulin. Because of the ease with which matching one to the

other one is also inviting large mistakes and large roller coaster highs

and lows as a consequence.

If eating few carbs and using little insulin accordingly, the situation is

reversed and even if mistakes happen the coaster ride is also small.

XB

IC|XC

__________ NOD32 4124 (20090602) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

http://www.eset.com

June 3, 2009

even being type two, there has been times when I have needed what I would

consider a lot of insulin, and I eat low carb.

Kell

MSN: Kell@...

Skype: KlarssonNY

" I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that

people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me

from a doormat or a prostitute. " -- West

Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

Someone offered:

" One thing to point out, concerning whether or not it is better for a type

1 to take less insulin is, as a former member named used to say, and

I don't think I have this exactly right was, lower insulin, lower problems;

larger

insulin, larger problems. Harry, do you remember exactly what that little

phrase was? "

Me:

He was following the insight of Dr. Bernstein regarding the theory of large

and small numbers. If one eats large amounts of carbs one must use large

amounts of insulin. Because of the ease with which matching one to the

other one is also inviting large mistakes and large roller coaster highs

and lows as a consequence.

If eating few carbs and using little insulin accordingly, the situation is

reversed and even if mistakes happen the coaster ride is also small.

XB

IC|XC

__________ NOD32 4124 (20090602) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

http://www.eset.com

June 3, 2009

If 10 units stilled controlled the type 1, then yes, iwould be better. But

if the type 1 diabetic needs 20, is under good control and not gaining

weight (and doesn't need to lose weight), then the 20 units would be better.

Eating the same and lowereing the insulin to 10 units would mean the type 1

person would run high blood sugars and perhaps go into diabetic

keto-acidosis.

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

yep, I understand that, but is less insulin even better for type 1's, I mean

would it not be better to only have to take 10 units instad of 20.

I know that a type 1 can never be free of insulin.

sorry just asking so that I learn too.

are there not type 2's that are fully reliant on insulin because their pan

is no longer functioning at all, because of the long term damage.

I do not remember what test it was, but I know that she told me that it

showed that my pan was not fully at full function.

can type 2's become type 1?

I ask all this, because I really want to do all I can to keep things at bay.

When she put me on insulin, I thought that meant I would never come off of

it again, but here I am four years later...

I also fear how hard it is on my body to go on and off the insulin.

I have learned that, no matter if I am on insulin or not, my diet for the

rest of my life will have to be very strick and watched.

Kell

MSN: Kellalstown (DOT) <mailto:Kell%40alstown.com> com

Skype: KlarssonNY

" I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know

that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that

differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute. " -- West

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

So if I'm reading this right, Symlin is taken in conjunction with Humalog

(or fast acting insulin). Is this correct? IF so, I for one am not overly

anxious to try it. I take a minimum of 4 injections now, and really don't

want to add 2 or 3 more. I think Symlin would be especially helpful to

people who are really struggling with blood sugar control though. From the

sounds of it, for these folks, this form of insulin may be just what they

need.

Thanks very much Jen for the very informative article.

Dave

A wise man's heart guides his mouth, and his lips promote instruction.

(Proverbs 16:23)

June 3, 2009

It's not uncommon for type 2s to actually need much more insulin than type

1s, even though they usually don't need it to survive. This is due to

insulin resistance which is associated with type 2 but not type 1.

Jen

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

even being type two, there has been times when I have needed what I would

consider a lot of insulin, and I eat low carb.

Kell

MSN: Kell@...

Skype: KlarssonNY

" I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know

that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that

differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute. " -- West

Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

Someone offered:

" One thing to point out, concerning whether or not it is better for a type

1 to take less insulin is, as a former member named used to say,

and

I don't think I have this exactly right was, lower insulin, lower

problems;

larger

insulin, larger problems. Harry, do you remember exactly what that little

phrase was? "

Me:

He was following the insight of Dr. Bernstein regarding the theory of

large

and small numbers. If one eats large amounts of carbs one must use large

amounts of insulin. Because of the ease with which matching one to the

other one is also inviting large mistakes and large roller coaster highs

and lows as a consequence.

If eating few carbs and using little insulin accordingly, the situation is

reversed and even if mistakes happen the coaster ride is also small.

XB

IC|XC

__________ NOD32 4124 (20090602) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

http://www.eset.com

June 3, 2009

Jen,

I noticed your e-mail on Symlin. I've been on it for a couple years now. Most of

your commentary applies in my case. The manufacturer does NOT suggest mixing

insulin and symlin, thus I do not. It is an additional injection per use,

whether on the pump or injection-able insulin. My Ha1c is in the 6's always and

control of my daily BSs are generally easier and with me and some others Symlin

users I've talked with, it is an appetite suppressant. My weight control is

excellent. To me, of the 10+ meds I take each day, I rate Symlin as one I truly

notice it's positive influence in my health. I recommend nothing to anyone, but

visiting with a knowledgeable endo or diabetic specialist may help with this

option. Best of health to you.

Rick Blace

________________________________

To: blind-diabetics

Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 5:00:07 PM

Subject: RE: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

Yes, you are right, it is taken with rapid-acting insulin, which would mean

you would have to take two injections before eating. However I have heard of

some people using it in a pump (in which case they would be wearing two

pumps). I think I've also heard that perhaps Lilly is working with Amylin

(the people who make Symlin and also Byetta) to make a device that would

deliver both insulin and amylin in one injection, though I may have just

imagined this. *smile*

If your after-meal blood sugars are within range and you are not having

problems with weight, then I think there's probably no need to fix what

isn't broken.

It's important to know that Symlin is not " another form " of insulin, though.

It cannot be taken instead of insulin but must be taken in conjunction with

it. Insulin and amylin are completely separate hormones that work together

to regulate blood sugar levels, just as insulin and glucagon are completely

separate hormones. It is still insulin which actually controls the blood

sugar, amylin just does some things that make that control easier after

meals.

Jen

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

So if I'm reading this right, Symlin is taken in conjunction with Humalog

(or fast acting insulin). Is this correct? IF so, I for one am not overly

anxious to try it. I take a minimum of 4 injections now, and really don't

want to add 2 or 3 more. I think Symlin would be especially helpful to

people who are really struggling with blood sugar control though. From the

sounds of it, for these folks, this form of insulin may be just what they

need.

Thanks very much Jen for the very informative article.

Dave

A wise man's heart guides his mouth, and his lips promote instruction.

(Proverbs 16:23)

June 4, 2009

stated his version for both counting carbs and dosing insulin. " Big

numbers means big mistakes;small numbers means small mistakes " Those of us who

are constant carb counters know exactly what this means, especially if you dose

according to your insulin: to. carb ratio,which I do. To get one hell of a low

sugar reaction, just over estimate the number of grams of carbs you consume and

then dose for it, and it turns out you were wrong. If you are a type 1 diabetic

it would be very wrong, and after doing it a few times you may tend to prefer to

have a higher bs level two hours later after eating. I know I do, since it is

a lot easier to bring down a higher bs level, than to deal with a severe low,

when using short-acting insulin like Humalog. I try to keep my top bs level

around 160 or lower, and if it is higher than that say 200 or so, I know how

many units of Humalog to dose to bring it down to around 100 within an hour or

so.

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

yep, I understand that, but is less insulin even better for type 1's, I mean

would it not be better to only have to take 10 units instad of 20.

I know that a type 1 can never be free of insulin.

sorry just asking so that I learn too.

are there not type 2's that are fully reliant on insulin because their pan

is no longer functioning at all, because of the long term damage.

I do not remember what test it was, but I know that she told me that it

showed that my pan was not fully at full function.

can type 2's become type 1?

I ask all this, because I really want to do all I can to keep things at

bay.

When she put me on insulin, I thought that meant I would never come off of

it again, but here I am four years later...

I also fear how hard it is on my body to go on and off the insulin.

I have learned that, no matter if I am on insulin or not, my diet for the

rest of my life will have to be very strick and watched.

Kell

MSN: Kellalstown (DOT) <mailto:Kell%40alstown.com> com

Skype: KlarssonNY

" I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know

that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that

differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute. " -- West

June 4, 2009

Harry,

You can drop from 200 to 100 in an hour from a correction dose and not go

low? If I dropped that quickly I think I would end up low since Humalog

peaks in about 90 minutes and continues working for about four hours for

most people. If I'm high I aim to come down to target (my target is 6.0 or

108) in two or so hours. If I haven't budged after an hour I will give

myself another small correction to get things moving, though, but I will

take the insulin I've already taken into consideration when doing it so as

not to " stack " boluses which can often cause a low later on.

Jen

Re: Symlin, An Injectable Form of Amylin

stated his version for both counting carbs and dosing insulin. " Big

numbers means big mistakes;small numbers means small mistakes " Those of us

who are constant carb counters know exactly what this means, especially if

you dose according to your insulin: to. carb ratio,which I do. To get one

hell of a low sugar reaction, just over estimate the number of grams of

carbs you consume and then dose for it, and it turns out you were wrong. If

you are a type 1 diabetic it would be very wrong, and after doing it a few

times you may tend to prefer to have a higher bs level two hours later

after eating. I know I do, since it is a lot easier to bring down a higher

bs level, than to deal with a severe low, when using short-acting insulin

like Humalog. I try to keep my top bs level around 160 or lower, and if it

is higher than that say 200 or so, I know how many units of Humalog to dose

to bring it down to around 100 within an hour or so.

June 4, 2009

I am glad you caught my error. I needed to say that I watch such a drop of 100

points using fast-acting insulin in a couple of hours. I have noticed something

interesting about my bs level in regard to Lantus lately. For instance I can

take my bs level at bedtime and dose 25 units of Lantus with a bs of 175 and the

next morning my fasting bs level may be 85, a drop of 90 points. I think it is

all of those heart medications causing my bs level fluctuations, since I never

had this problem before I started taking all those drugs for my heart condition.

In fact one time my bs level dropped so far that I became unconscious with

shakes and all kinds of problems, and my wife had to call the emergency medical

squad to attend to me, and they found a bs level of 28. Of course I also

figured out the cause for this. It is called memory failure, since I forgot I

had dosed Humalog for supper shortly after supper, and instantly forgot that I

had done the injection and a short while later I did another high dose of

Humalog. This was around 8 o'clock in the evening, then I went to bed around

9Pm and promptly went to sleep. Long before the three or four hours duration of

Humalog was up. Now I take special attention of the time and dose of Humalog I

use. I don't want to do that again. I will see how 25 units of Lantus will

affect my bs level tomorrow morning. At bedtime tonight my bs was 190, which is

quite high, but I did not dose any Humalog to bring it down. I just took my

regular 25 units of Lantus. I report the morning bs level tomorrow.