Re: weight gain

[Guest guest]

Hi Holly,

I didn't mean for my post to sound like I didn't care. I do care, *I* just

can't go back to what use to be...the journey to where I am now and where I

was 5-10 years ago was a very hard and painful one. When I first saw the

first endo, she told both my hubby and I the weight gain was going to happen

and there was nothing I could do about it. I didn't believe her in the

least. I walked 3-5 miles a day, watched what I ate and sweated to the

oldies. She had said that in some cases people have actually doubled their

body weight (though I have never heard of anyone, in this group or others

that has doubled their weight!). Well, after RAI the weight started coming

on, 60 pounds in six months...for me I figured out why...I did not have a

very good endo and was left to go hypO and hypO will add the weight

significantly.

It has been a painful thing, I still watch what I eat, sweat to the oldies

when I can and for as long as I can, use my smartbells and didn't gain for

the last year and couple of months, held my own and actually lost a little

bit at the beginning of the year. On the PTU I have gained 3 pounds in a

month. I just don't seem to be able to keep this from happening, and I can

not beat myself up over it anymore.

Others, like and Debbie R are doing really well in getting the weight

off that they have gained over time...hopefully I will one day be amongst

that group.

If you do find an answer, let me know okay I do agree, the more we know

and understand about this disease, the more control *we* have with much of

it and our attitudes!

Take care,

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Hi Holly-

When you're euthyroid you have to eat normally, and as you get older, you

eat much less to maintain the same weight. In the normal population, people

eat less as they get older and they still get heavier.

Graves' patients often enjoy having the disease (until they start getting

really sick) because they can eat voraciously and not gain a pound.

Overweight Graves' patients often like it because they lose weight when

they've had trouble before and they're reluctant to gain the weight back.

That said, there seems to be some kind of metabolism problem with treated

Graves'. I've heard too many stories of people gaining 60+ lbs to think

there's not something going wrong. People normally gain weight as they age

but not that much. The accepted belief among doctors is that people that

have treated Graves' have gotten used to eating huge amounts of food and

don't stop once they're treated. I don't believe that's true. Although the

doctors will tell you that these patients aren't telling the truth about

what they eat, I don't believe that. I've heard too many stories from

people I trust about constant exercise and emaciating diets. They don't

lose the weight easily.

It's like PCOS patients had to endure doctors telling them they ate too much

for years and wouldn't even see them until they lost weight. Now, it turns

out that other things are at work and these patients really can't lose

weight despite constant exercise and diet. It took them a while to figure

that out and it will for Graves' patients too

Anyhow, there are a multitude of factors at work here. There are those

Graves' patients that like being skinny or eating like they did as children.

Then again too, there is probably some kind of problem with weight once

Graves' is treated that's going ignored in the medical community.

I know that it's scary, but the weight problem doesn't happen with everyone.

I had my Graves' treated with first ATDs and then RAI and I've gained 15 lbs

over the last 15 years since I was diagnosed. That's normal weight gain

over the course of 15 years since I don't watch what I eat.

Anyhow, the consequences of untreated Graves' are much worse in my opinion.

These patients have bone and heart problems. And much worse, are the mental

problems they seem to have. They do horrible things to themselves and their

families in their insistence of avoiding Graves' treatment. They are a

primary reason why, I truly believe, that we have so much trouble getting

properly treated by doctors for this disease.

Take care,

> With all this talk about people stopping their ATDs because of weight

gain,

> I would be interested to hear how/why a person would gain weight if

> euthyroid on ATDs. Anyone know? I can understand if your body wants to

go

> back to where it was prior to losing weight from the Graves, back to it's

> " set point " , if you will, but anything beyond that, I really want a

medical

> explanation. These things don't just happen for no reason. Maybe it

would

> be helpful for these young women to understand why they're gaining weight

> and what to expect.

>

> Holly

(edited to remove excess Yahoo junk)

[Guest guest]

Hi Terry,

If you can remember where you read that article I would love to read it. I

don't remember seeing it here though.

Thanks,

Jody

PS I think your right about the RAI and weight gain

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[Guest guest]

Hi Val-

I didn't gain weight with Graves' but I sure didn't lose a pound. They

estimate that I ate 6000+ calories of food/day (that's twice as much as a

really big guy eats). Once I was treated, I didn't feel a need to eat that

much and didn't gain either. I have gained weight over the 15 years though

but I attribute that to normal aging. I was 24 at diagnosis and I'm 39 now.

Take care,

> 7 years ago, before any hint of GD, I weighed 115 pounds..Then a year

> or so later later I got down to 98 pounds. I believe that to be the

> beginning of the GD problems. Then over time, as I got more and more

> hyper I actually gained weight, my doc says 30% of GD patients

> actually gain because they eat so much. Well that was me, I went from

> 98 pounds to the place I was at when diagnosed, that is; 140

> pounds. I'm only 5'3 " so 140 was alot for me.

>

> Once I began ATD's I gained about 5 more pounds. Over the course of my

> disease I went from a size 3 to a size 13!!!!!

>

> I have been on ATD's for about a year, I have been euthyroid for 6

> months and now weigh 118 pounds (phew!) My 2 cents is that wether you

> take the darn ATD's or not, a thyroid condition puts your health and

> your weight in danger. Just because someone doesn't take their PTU

> that doesn't mean they wont gain weight, BUT I do think that there is

> a time (say 6 months) after beginning the meds where the body will

> fight hard to achieve some balance. Initially in this time one will

> gain weight, then once a euthyroid state is achieved, a body can begin

> to return to its normal weight.

>

> I'm sorry to say this too, but it seems that the noncompliance issue

> seems to be a problem for " younger " girls. Well I was 26 when I went

> from a size 3 to a 13. If you think vanity wasn't an issue, boy it

> was.. But anyone who puts their appearance before total health has

> other problems besides Graves.

>

> Val

[Guest guest]

There was an article I read (here, not sure--or somewhere else) recently

that had statistics for weight gain on ATD's, and the number that sticks in

my head is 8 lbs. a year average weight gain. I don't remember the rest, but

I think the weight gain after RAI was also in there, much more dramatic as I

recall and from hearing everyone here talk.

I was one of the 30% who gain because they can't stop eating before

diagnosis, and I gained some more on ATD's but not the amount above, I've

put on another 15-20 lbs. over about 5 years, and while I feel heavy, I

still fit into a 14P size most of the time. Debbie has recently reported

weight loss after a while in remission. I'm almost off ATD's (1/4 of a 5mg.

methimazole/day), and hope for the next step to happen soon, and be off

entirely.

As for the why part, I know that one of the first clues I'm on too much

methimazole is weight gain when I haven't been eating more than normal. I

think that having someone balanced on the *exact* amount of ATD they need at

any one time, is just about impossible for most people and most endos,

especially if they just look at TSH every 3 months to determine dosage.

Dosage is decreased over time, yes, --but until one gets so tuned into all

their own clues as to state, it's just not possible to always be on the

right dose. I often feel like my ATD consumption level is such a fine

balancing act that if I don't observe my symptoms daily, almost hourly

really, I am not assured I'm doing it " right " . Plus, it took a bunch of

times slipping slightly into hypO to recognize that, and every slip was a

pound or two and a foggy brain.

I know this is not a scientific explanation Holly, and I'd love to see one

too--but until then, that's all I've got.

Hope it helps!

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:36:23 -0500

> To: " 'graves_support ' " <graves_support >

> Subject: weight gain

>

> With all this talk about people stopping their ATDs because of weight gain,

> I would be interested to hear how/why a person would gain weight if

> euthyroid on ATDs. Anyone know? I can understand if your body wants to go

> back to where it was prior to losing weight from the Graves, back to it's

> " set point " , if you will, but anything beyond that, I really want a medical

> explanation. These things don't just happen for no reason. Maybe it would

> be helpful for these young women to understand why they're gaining weight

> and what to expect.

>

> Holly

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi Val-

>

> I didn't gain weight with Graves' but I sure didn't lose a pound. They

> estimate that I ate 6000+ calories of food/day (that's twice as much as a

> really big guy eats). Once I was treated, I didn't feel a need to eat that

> much and didn't gain either. I have gained weight over the 15 years though

> but I attribute that to normal aging. I was 24 at diagnosis and I'm 39 now.

>

> Take care,

>

>

,

I didn't gain at first, but by the time I was diagnosed I had gained

almost 40 pounds! I was eating 7 or 8 large meals a day!!!!!

I think the changes in my diet have helped alot. I have had to change

all of my habits. I also found I was allergic to dairy and gluten. So

no cheese and no bread, no butter... no bad stuff basically, probably

helped me to lose it again as well.

One of the best things now, is that I can afford to buy groceries for

myself.

Val

[Guest guest]

OMG !!!

6000+ calories a day? I eat around 1400-1500 a day and still gain! Fun

WOW...I hate this disease!

TTYL

Jody

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[Guest guest]

-I can't accept that there is not a medical reason for this. If

you're euthyroid, doesn't that mean that your levels are where they should

be and therefore your metabolism is where it should be?-

Hi Holly-

One thing to keep in mind is that they freely admit that they don't

understand everything about this disease. Although thyroid hormone is

importantly involved (and probably the most important thing) in metabolism

there are other things involved. I know insulin is intimately involved in

metabolism too. The endocrine system is so complicated. They just don't

know everything yet. One comfort, for me, is that it's way better than it

used to be. It can only get better.

For instance, I have PCOS too. Most doctors would dismiss that diagnosis

(unless they looked at my ovaries) because my fasting insulin levels are low

and my testosterone levels are in the low-normal range (in most cases of

PCOS they're high). But my estrogen/testosterone ratio is probably the key

(my estrogen levels are very low) which isn't well-recognized. But it will

be.

Voice your fears all you want. We all need to. It's very scary. I can't

tell you how wonderful it is to have people accessible that question what's

considered acceptable treatment. When I was diagnosed, there was no

internet and I didn't know anyone else with Graves'. So when I asked the

doctors about the problems I was having I was told " It must be something

else " so I just stopped asking. There is no comfort greater than knowing

that you're not alone. That's what's so great about talking to everybody

here.

Take care,

Re: weight gain

>

>

>

> Hi Holly,

> I can't give you a medical reason other than to say our thyroids play a

huge

>

> part in our metabolisms and when they are shot so is the metabolism. I

have

>

> gained a LOT of weight since having RAI and left to go hypO for 4 years.

> Started losing a bit when I switched to Armour thryoid, but do expect I

will

>

> gain some while on PTU for my eyes. I hate it, it made me cry for a long

> time. Now I am in a place in my life where I have accepted myself, if I

> never lose the bulk of the weight I am still the person inside that I want

> to be. Yes it is tough, but dying needlessly is a worse choice.

> Jody

>

(edited to take out some of the Yahoo! junk)

[Guest guest]

Hi Val-

Part of the reason that I didn't have the weight gain might be that what I

craved changed (so my diet drastically changed too). All I wanted after I

was treated was protein via meat and vegetables once in a while. I am now

an unabashed carnivore.

I used to really love sweets but, after treatment, I never ordered dessert.

I just didn't have the desire anymore. Weird!

Take care,

>

> ,

>

> I didn't gain at first, but by the time I was diagnosed I had gained

> almost 40 pounds! I was eating 7 or 8 large meals a day!!!!!

>

> I think the changes in my diet have helped alot. I have had to change

> all of my habits. I also found I was allergic to dairy and gluten. So

> no cheese and no bread, no butter... no bad stuff basically, probably

> helped me to lose it again as well.

>

> One of the best things now, is that I can afford to buy groceries for

> myself.

>

>

> Val

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

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intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

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>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

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>

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Was it Holly who talked about weight in terms of loss of control? I agree

with this and think this is a huge, huge issue. We lose so much control

after being diagnosed with Graves. For me, it was a shock to think of

myself in terms of illness. I was healthy, not sick. So to learn that I had

an autoimmune disease meant a major shift in my identify as a vital,

relatively young and healthy person. WHen you add the weight gain and loss

on top of that--well, you see on a daily basis how little control you have

(despite your best efforts) and how your life, body, and people's

impressions of you are visibly changing, all because of a disease. It is

quite psychologically taxing and I think the changes to identity (body image

included in this) are often underlooked when we think about this illness.

For me, I now know that maintaining my weight means the right dose of

armour. When I was sick or taking too much replacement hormone, I lost

weight. WHen I was subclinically hypo, I watched what I ate like a hawk and

gained a couple of pounds (even severely limiting my food intake). I only

gained a couple of lbs because of this list and knowing that weight gain

while eating less than 1500 calories might mean my thyroid was not balanced

*for me*, regardless of the TSH. The fact that I was slowly gaining while

in effect dieting, was one of hte reasons I hustled to my endo and

discovered that my tsh was over 3; I had the benefit of a preGraves thyroid

test that put my tsh at 1.4, so the endo I was working with put me on

armour. Now I can eat reasonably. With a TSH of 1.7, if I overeat for a

few days (not just one) I gain a bit of weight. If I don't eat or am

stressed out, I lose. Seems normal to me. However, it is a jar to one's

self-image and sense of identity to know that maintaining the weight I've

had my entire adult life, means taking the right amount of medication -- not

too much and not too litttle.

You can have the self-control of a tibetan monk while hypothyroid, and still

gain weight.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I too craved protein once I started getting euthyroid on ATDs. A veggie for

13 odd years, I've been eating meat since December 2001. I still want sweet

things though, and sometimes still eat what I shouldn't. BUT - I DO really

try for weeks at a time I will follow a diet and not loose a pound. I did

the Scarsdale diet a couple of times with friends and whilst they lost

upwards of ten pounds in two weeks - I GAINED 1 - 2 lbs and I was only

marginally hypo at that point.

One of my theories is that when you are hyper, your body experiences this as

a famine, then when you normalise, your body goes into storage mode getting

ready for the next famine. I don't think that is the full story, but a

contributing factor

Also - although we may all be diligently exercising away at the gym (myself

included) I have to say that my level of activity GENERALLY has dropped

since I first became ill - cos I just don't feel as well as I did. I don't

move as fast, I put my feet up more often, I don't stay up as long or get up

as early. All these things make a huge difference for me I think. (I don't

mean to imply that we are all in this boat, this is just me.)

I am EXPECTING my weight to come off (with some diet assistance) as I become

more active due to feeling better. I am seeing a naturopath on Friday and

she is going to talk me through the ZONE diet.

It will be great to get on an eating program and stay on it for six months -

I do confess to being a yoyo dieter in the past - I LIKE extremes and tend

to go for " 2 week diets " interspersed with sensible eating. In the long

run, I don't think this is a good idea at all!

I did gain weight when I first went on ATDs - about forty five pounds, but

I think it is pretty clear that this was because I was over medicated. (I

had normal FT3 and FT4 with my TSH still low and my endo put my medication

UP!)

I haven't managed to loose the weight though I have stopped it going on by

changing endo and adjusting my own dose of ATDs.

I am now euthyroid on 2.5mg of Carbimazole every other day and TSI

antibodies down to 2 from 10 at the beginning of the year (>1 normal, 2

equivocal, <2 positive)

I HATE the weight, but I hate the HYPER more and don't want to go through it

all over again. So, I am trying to resist the temptation to loose this

weight quick. I have read that rapid weight gain can trigger GD. I suspect

that is a very confusing statement as it's a chicken and egg situation -

who's to say which triggered what?

I'm blathering.

DAWN ROSE

>

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: <graves_support >

>Subject: Re: weight gain

>Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:13:19 -0800

>

>Hi Val-

>

>Part of the reason that I didn't have the weight gain might be that what I

>craved changed (so my diet drastically changed too). All I wanted after I

>was treated was protein via meat and vegetables once in a while. I am now

>an unabashed carnivore.

>

>I used to really love sweets but, after treatment, I never ordered dessert.

>I just didn't have the desire anymore. Weird!

>

>Take care,

>

>

> >

> > ,

> >

> > I didn't gain at first, but by the time I was diagnosed I had gained

> > almost 40 pounds! I was eating 7 or 8 large meals a day!!!!!

> >

> > I think the changes in my diet have helped alot. I have had to change

> > all of my habits. I also found I was allergic to dairy and gluten. So

> > no cheese and no bread, no butter... no bad stuff basically, probably

> > helped me to lose it again as well.

> >

> > One of the best things now, is that I can afford to buy groceries for

> > myself.

> >

> >

> > Val

[Guest guest]

,

One thing I do know is: eating excessive carbs and low amounts of protein

makes one crave sweets. Satisfying one's need for protein can eliminate that

craving. Not that I can live without a good dessert here and there...

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:13:19 -0800

> To: <graves_support >

> Subject: Re: weight gain

>

> Hi Val-

>

> Part of the reason that I didn't have the weight gain might be that what I

> craved changed (so my diet drastically changed too). All I wanted after I

> was treated was protein via meat and vegetables once in a while. I am now

> an unabashed carnivore.

>

> I used to really love sweets but, after treatment, I never ordered dessert.

> I just didn't have the desire anymore. Weird!

>

> Take care,

>

>

>>

>> ,

>>

>> I didn't gain at first, but by the time I was diagnosed I had gained

>> almost 40 pounds! I was eating 7 or 8 large meals a day!!!!!

>>

>> I think the changes in my diet have helped alot. I have had to change

>> all of my habits. I also found I was allergic to dairy and gluten. So

>> no cheese and no bread, no butter... no bad stuff basically, probably

>> helped me to lose it again as well.

>>

>> One of the best things now, is that I can afford to buy groceries for

>> myself.

>>

>>

>> Val

(edited to remove exessive Yahoo stuff)

[Guest guest]

I have never found a magic diet to lose weight. I've never tried either.

Take care,

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

Haven't read all the posts on " weight gain " , but I know that I didn't eat

tons of food to have the weight gain. At the time I was living on less than

1,000 calories. I was so sick that I couldn't eat. By the end of the day

sometimes I had been so hyper that I was exhausted a lot of times and just

didn't have the energy to eat. That didn't mean that I slept. Most nights

I was in and out of it couldn't get into a deep sleep. Then my eyes were so

bugged I could see light because the lids wouldn't close all the way.

I never understood the weight gain and I thought it was because for years my

doctor had given me Synthyroid when I didn't need it. My husband talked to

the pharmacist one day and he said if you were given synthyroid when you

didn't need it that you would lose about 20-25 lbs at the most. Then he

said you would start gaining it back plus more. You see the first doctor I

went to handed out synthyroid to almost all of his patients that needed to

lose a few pounds. He had a medical clinic, bought his drugs from a

pharmacy, then resold them to his patients. Our pharmacist used to work

part time at the pharmacy that my old doctor bought the drugs from. And he

remembered him because he didn't like him and the amount of synthyroid he

bought. He felt it was unethical, but like he said there isn't a law that

said he couldn't do what he did. So, I always figured my weight gain was

from my metabolism being screwed up from taking a drug (synthyroid) that I

never needed. My aunt inspired me to lose weight when she was diagnosed

with breast cancer. She walked everyday going through her treatments to

keep up her strength. If she could do it, I could do it. I've learned to

ignore my stomach when it is hungry and I've learned a new way of eating.

I am still overweight, but I feel healthy and basically follow the diabetic

diet. Eat small meals several times a day.

And I must feel good this is the first time in 6 yrs. I've been hunting. It

felt good today, sitting alone waiting for a deer to come along. And my

brother and bother in law were glad to see me back at it. I was the last

one in. Tomorrow I will be up early to do it again. There is life after

GD, I might not be 100% but this disease will not prevent me from doing

things I used to enjoy. The first step for me was realizing I might not be

the " Old Deb " , but that won't stop me. The one thing I've never learned is

how to look in the mirror and love my looks now. And I hate it when people

say, " you don't look nothing like the members of your family " . Now that

hurts, because we all looked alike, but not me anymore. Maybe someday I

will be rich and be able to afford plastic surgery. LOL!

The reason I am here, is so hopefully I will understand this disease better

and maybe just maybe we can find some answers that the doctors don't have.

Like weight gain and all the other mysteries of this disease. My Mom taught

me to be a fighter, just took a long time to get through my head.

Debbie R. <*;*>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, everyone, for your responses! There are some encouraging stories

there, and definitely some ideas for understanding why this is happening.

I've got several indications that I'm heading toward the hypo end if not

there yet. I'm still waiting for my last test results. That is probably

contributing to the problem for me, because I had gained about 6 pounds

initially on ATDs, but had been holding steady there for several weeks. Then

a few weeks after having my dosage increased, I gained 4 pounds overnight,

it seems. And I've gained yet another. I also sleep more, which means I'm

burning fewer calories. It's hard for me to stay up past 9:00. I'm also

really " puffy " lately and cry easily. It kind of sounds hypo to me.

I also heard somewhere once that adults will gain an average of 3 pounds a

year if they don't increase their activity and decrease their food intake as

they age. So, as suggested, anyone on ATDs for several years will

experience that if they don't " step things up " --just like everyone will.

And as for the " famine " theory, although I don't think it applies to me this

time, I did experience that when I went through my divorce. I got down to

98 lbs even though I ate normally. Then, when things calmed down, I gained

it all back + 10 pounds--that good 'ole 10 pound buffer to keep us from

starving to death again!

So, it probably is a variety of factors. It helps to see what those factors

might be. Then we can evaluate ourselves individually and determine if there

is something more we could be doing (like eating more protein and fewer

simple carbs like someone mentioned) or, if there's not really anything we

can do right now, just accept it as part of the disease, but continue to do

all we can so that when we're well, we can get back to our normal weight

(and health) more easily.

This is a great group! I think it's helpful just having people to support

you along the way -- weight gain or loss!

Holly

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie,

What strides you have made in just this last year!!! Back out hunting now

is wonderful for you!

We had a doctor here (thank God he has retired now!) who use to perscribe

synthroid for weight loss also. I didn't know this until a couple of years

ago when my little sister told me she had been on synthroid for years to

lose weight from this quack! After she moved to Indiana she couldn't find a

doctor who would leave her on it and she has since gained a ton of weight in

4 years, so you really may be onto something with your idea.

Take care

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Hi Holly,

Am doing a copy/paste of the full symptom list in case you don't have it

from the archives. You may want to print it up and keep a watch on those

hypo symptoms...if you are seeing even one, call your doc to cut your dose,

don't wait until you have several of them. It will take awhile to undo

things and get you feeling better the longer you wait.

Jody

Hyper

Amennohrea, oligomenorrhea, or heavier menses

Aversion to heat, always warm

Bladder problems

Blotchy itchy patches without rash

Bouncy legs

Congestive heart failure

Constant hunger

Cramps

Depression

Difficulty breathing

Difficulty eating

Disorientation, confusion, brain fog

Dizziness

Dots (horizontally) in nails

Dry, brittle, lusterless hair

Endometriosis

Feel like you¹re vibrating, tremors

Goiter

Graying hair

Hair loss

Headaches

Heartburn

High or low blood pressure problems

Hives

Hyper bowels (up to 8 movements a day)

Inability to sit still

Increased susceptibility to other immune problems (gum disease, etc.)

Infertility

Intolerant of stress (even a scary book or movie will increase heart

rate)

Irritabilty

Loss of coordination

Loss of psychological perspective on life

Loss of stamina

Low cholesterol level which rises dramatically upon treatment

Lowered libido

Lowered stamina (even when stabilized on ATD¹s)

Memory loss

Miscarriage

Mood swings

Nail margins uneven

Nails split into 2 layers

Nails weak, cracking

Numbness in limbs

Onycholysis (separation of nail from it¹s bed)

Ovarian cysts

Panic

Racing heart (rapid pulse)

Rage

Rashes

Ridged nails (vertically) " washboarding "

Shaking hands, loss of dexterity, inability to even write clearly

Shortness of breath

Skin tags (hanging moles)

Sleeplessness

Smelly sweat (esp. feet)

Sore throat

Stomach cramps

Sweating easily, heavily

Unable to calm down and sleep after sex

Uticaria (rash)

Vitiligo (patchy loss of pigmentation in skin)

Weakness in legs and arms

Weight loss or gain (rapid)

Hypo

Aversion to cold

Brain stops working

Can't get moving

Can't spell own name

Depression

Dry, brittle hair

Eyebrows stop growing

Feeling like a slug; no energy

Feeling of being overwhelmed

Headache

Heavy menses & cramping

High cholesterol & triglyceride levels

Inability to be self-directed or stay on task

Irregular heart rate (bradycardia)

Joint pain

Long menstrual cycle

Loss of memory

Nails that split, break, get thickened

Never " right " temperature; internal thermostat not working

Panic attacks

Premature birth

Puffy eyes, face, hands, feet

Severe hair loss

Severe weight gain even when not eating much

Sleep apnea

Sleepy all day, insomnia at night

Still birth

Suicidal thoughts

Thick, dry tongue

Unable to stop crying although not " sad "

Eyes

Bad night vision

Blurring of vision

Bulging eyes

Double vision

Dry eyes

Eyestrain

Inability to close eyes to sleep

Lid lag

Sensitive to light, even indoors

Staring

Swelling of eyes

Tearing

Ulceration

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Holly,

Am doing a copy/paste of the full symptom list in case you don't have it

from the archives. You may want to print it up and keep a watch on those

hypo symptoms...if you are seeing even one, call your doc to cut your dose,

don't wait until you have several of them. It will take awhile to undo

things and get you feeling better the longer you wait.

Jody

Hyper

Amennohrea, oligomenorrhea, or heavier menses

Aversion to heat, always warm

Bladder problems

Blotchy itchy patches without rash

Bouncy legs

Congestive heart failure

Constant hunger

Cramps

Depression

Difficulty breathing

Difficulty eating

Disorientation, confusion, brain fog

Dizziness

Dots (horizontally) in nails

Dry, brittle, lusterless hair

Endometriosis

Feel like you¹re vibrating, tremors

Goiter

Graying hair

Hair loss

Headaches

Heartburn

High or low blood pressure problems

Hives

Hyper bowels (up to 8 movements a day)

Inability to sit still

Increased susceptibility to other immune problems (gum disease, etc.)

Infertility

Intolerant of stress (even a scary book or movie will increase heart

rate)

Irritabilty

Loss of coordination

Loss of psychological perspective on life

Loss of stamina

Low cholesterol level which rises dramatically upon treatment

Lowered libido

Lowered stamina (even when stabilized on ATD¹s)

Memory loss

Miscarriage

Mood swings

Nail margins uneven

Nails split into 2 layers

Nails weak, cracking

Numbness in limbs

Onycholysis (separation of nail from it¹s bed)

Ovarian cysts

Panic

Racing heart (rapid pulse)

Rage

Rashes

Ridged nails (vertically) " washboarding "

Shaking hands, loss of dexterity, inability to even write clearly

Shortness of breath

Skin tags (hanging moles)

Sleeplessness

Smelly sweat (esp. feet)

Sore throat

Stomach cramps

Sweating easily, heavily

Unable to calm down and sleep after sex

Uticaria (rash)

Vitiligo (patchy loss of pigmentation in skin)

Weakness in legs and arms

Weight loss or gain (rapid)

Hypo

Aversion to cold

Brain stops working

Can't get moving

Can't spell own name

Depression

Dry, brittle hair

Eyebrows stop growing

Feeling like a slug; no energy

Feeling of being overwhelmed

Headache

Heavy menses & cramping

High cholesterol & triglyceride levels

Inability to be self-directed or stay on task

Irregular heart rate (bradycardia)

Joint pain

Long menstrual cycle

Loss of memory

Nails that split, break, get thickened

Never " right " temperature; internal thermostat not working

Panic attacks

Premature birth

Puffy eyes, face, hands, feet

Severe hair loss

Severe weight gain even when not eating much

Sleep apnea

Sleepy all day, insomnia at night

Still birth

Suicidal thoughts

Thick, dry tongue

Unable to stop crying although not " sad "

Eyes

Bad night vision

Blurring of vision

Bulging eyes

Double vision

Dry eyes

Eyestrain

Inability to close eyes to sleep

Lid lag

Sensitive to light, even indoors

Staring

Swelling of eyes

Tearing

Ulceration

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn-

I think the total change in my diet might have contributed to not gaining

the weight. It wasn't something that I consciously did but, if I think

about, the change in my eating habits was pretty sudden and complete.

Take care,

> Hi ,

> I too craved protein once I started getting euthyroid on ATDs. A veggie

for

> 13 odd years, I've been eating meat since December 2001. I still want

sweet

> things though, and sometimes still eat what I shouldn't. BUT - I DO

really

> try for weeks at a time I will follow a diet and not loose a pound. I did

> the Scarsdale diet a couple of times with friends and whilst they lost

> upwards of ten pounds in two weeks - I GAINED 1 - 2 lbs and I was only

> marginally hypo at that point.

>

> One of my theories is that when you are hyper, your body experiences this

as

> a famine, then when you normalise, your body goes into storage mode

getting

> ready for the next famine. I don't think that is the full story, but a

> contributing factor

>

> Also - although we may all be diligently exercising away at the gym

(myself

> included) I have to say that my level of activity GENERALLY has dropped

> since I first became ill - cos I just don't feel as well as I did. I

don't

> move as fast, I put my feet up more often, I don't stay up as long or get

up

> as early. All these things make a huge difference for me I think. (I

don't

> mean to imply that we are all in this boat, this is just me.)

> I am EXPECTING my weight to come off (with some diet assistance) as I

become

> more active due to feeling better. I am seeing a naturopath on Friday and

> she is going to talk me through the ZONE diet.

>

> It will be great to get on an eating program and stay on it for six

months -

> I do confess to being a yoyo dieter in the past - I LIKE extremes and tend

> to go for " 2 week diets " interspersed with sensible eating. In the long

> run, I don't think this is a good idea at all!

>

> I did gain weight when I first went on ATDs - about forty five pounds,

but

> I think it is pretty clear that this was because I was over medicated. (I

> had normal FT3 and FT4 with my TSH still low and my endo put my medication

> UP!)

> I haven't managed to loose the weight though I have stopped it going on by

> changing endo and adjusting my own dose of ATDs.

>

> I am now euthyroid on 2.5mg of Carbimazole every other day and TSI

> antibodies down to 2 from 10 at the beginning of the year (>1 normal, 2

> equivocal, <2 positive)

>

> I HATE the weight, but I hate the HYPER more and don't want to go through

it

> all over again. So, I am trying to resist the temptation to loose this

> weight quick. I have read that rapid weight gain can trigger GD. I

suspect

> that is a very confusing statement as it's a chicken and egg situation -

> who's to say which triggered what?

>

> I'm blathering.

>

> DAWN ROSE

[Guest guest]

Holly,

Another I've done to try to head off being hypo is take my temperature

and weigh myself every morning at the exact same time.

When my normal temp dropped from 97.8 to 95.5 and I gained a half a

pound, I waited another week, then I gained another pound and that's

when I called my doc and cut my dose.

I think I headed it off before I got anymore hypo. I think if a person

monitors all these things pretty darn closely, then small changes can

be very apparent.

My Doc always laughs at me because I'm sort of meticulous about these

things, but then it seems that he has some sort of abstract respect

for the fact that I care so much about being active in my health.

Anyhow, the temperature thing is no science since our temps can vary

alot, but I found my normal average by taking it every day and then

when it did drop by almost 2 degrees, I noticed right away.

Val

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jody! I've got several of the hypo symptoms.

Aversion to cold

Brain stops working

Depression

Dry, brittle hair

Headache

Inability to be self-directed or stay on task

Irregular heart rate (bradycardia)

Joint pain

Loss of memory

Puffy eyes, face, hands, feet

Severe weight gain even when not eating much

Thick, dry tongue

Unable to stop crying although not " sad "

I've had the headache from h$%% for three days, and I've been about to

freeze to death. I thought because my heart had started flip-flopping in my

chest again that it had to be hyper, but I see that's not the case. And I

have pain in my ankles and knees when I first step out of bed in the

morning. I'll be a little more diligent about getting in touch with my

doctor.

Thanks!

Holly

RE: weight gain

Hi Holly,

Am doing a copy/paste of the full symptom list in case you don't have it

from the archives. You may want to print it up and keep a watch on those

hypo symptoms...if you are seeing even one, call your doc to cut your dose,

don't wait until you have several of them. It will take awhile to undo

things and get you feeling better the longer you wait.

Jody

Hyper

Amennohrea, oligomenorrhea, or heavier menses

Aversion to heat, always warm

Bladder problems

Blotchy itchy patches without rash

Bouncy legs

Congestive heart failure

Constant hunger

Cramps

Depression

Difficulty breathing

Difficulty eating

Disorientation, confusion, brain fog

Dizziness

Dots (horizontally) in nails

Dry, brittle, lusterless hair

Endometriosis

Feel like you1re vibrating, tremors

Goiter

Graying hair

Hair loss

Headaches

Heartburn

High or low blood pressure problems

Hives

Hyper bowels (up to 8 movements a day)

Inability to sit still

Increased susceptibility to other immune problems (gum disease, etc.)

Infertility

Intolerant of stress (even a scary book or movie will increase heart

rate)

Irritabilty

Loss of coordination

Loss of psychological perspective on life

Loss of stamina

Low cholesterol level which rises dramatically upon treatment

Lowered libido

Lowered stamina (even when stabilized on ATD1s)

Memory loss

Miscarriage

Mood swings

Nail margins uneven

Nails split into 2 layers

Nails weak, cracking

Numbness in limbs

Onycholysis (separation of nail from it1s bed)

Ovarian cysts

Panic

Racing heart (rapid pulse)

Rage

Rashes

Ridged nails (vertically) " washboarding "

Shaking hands, loss of dexterity, inability to even write clearly

Shortness of breath

Skin tags (hanging moles)

Sleeplessness

Smelly sweat (esp. feet)

Sore throat

Stomach cramps

Sweating easily, heavily

Unable to calm down and sleep after sex

Uticaria (rash)

Vitiligo (patchy loss of pigmentation in skin)

Weakness in legs and arms

Weight loss or gain (rapid)

Hypo

Aversion to cold

Brain stops working

Can't get moving

Can't spell own name

Depression

Dry, brittle hair

Eyebrows stop growing

Feeling like a slug; no energy

Feeling of being overwhelmed

Headache

Heavy menses & cramping

High cholesterol & triglyceride levels

Inability to be self-directed or stay on task

Irregular heart rate (bradycardia)

Joint pain

Long menstrual cycle

Loss of memory

Nails that split, break, get thickened

Never " right " temperature; internal thermostat not working

Panic attacks

Premature birth

Puffy eyes, face, hands, feet

Severe hair loss

Severe weight gain even when not eating much

Sleep apnea

Sleepy all day, insomnia at night

Still birth

Suicidal thoughts

Thick, dry tongue

Unable to stop crying although not " sad "

Eyes

Bad night vision

Blurring of vision

Bulging eyes

Double vision

Dry eyes

Eyestrain

Inability to close eyes to sleep

Lid lag

Sensitive to light, even indoors

Staring

Swelling of eyes

Tearing

Ulceration

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

-------------------------------------

The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

----------------------------------------

DISCLAIMER

Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

of

the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

[Guest guest]

I just got off the phone with my doctor's office. My TSH is 30.504. Free

T4 .40, and Free T3 1.22. My God, I think they've just about killed me!

Isn't that severely hypo? No wonder I feel like crap. I didn't know I felt

THAT bad! In 6 weeks I went from a TSH of .03 to 30.5 and a Free T3 of

230 to 1.22. The nurse put my file on the top of his stack and said she

didn't know what he was going to do but I'd be hearing from him today.

RE: weight gain

Hi Holly,

Am doing a copy/paste of the full symptom list in case you don't have it

from the archives. You may want to print it up and keep a watch on those

hypo symptoms...if you are seeing even one, call your doc to cut your dose,

don't wait until you have several of them. It will take awhile to undo

things and get you feeling better the longer you wait.

Jody

Hyper

Amennohrea, oligomenorrhea, or heavier menses

Aversion to heat, always warm

Bladder problems

Blotchy itchy patches without rash

Bouncy legs

Congestive heart failure

Constant hunger

Cramps

Depression

Difficulty breathing

Difficulty eating

Disorientation, confusion, brain fog

Dizziness

Dots (horizontally) in nails

Dry, brittle, lusterless hair

Endometriosis

Feel like you1re vibrating, tremors

Goiter

Graying hair

Hair loss

Headaches

Heartburn

High or low blood pressure problems

Hives

Hyper bowels (up to 8 movements a day)

Inability to sit still

Increased susceptibility to other immune problems (gum disease, etc.)

Infertility

Intolerant of stress (even a scary book or movie will increase heart

rate)

Irritabilty

Loss of coordination

Loss of psychological perspective on life

Loss of stamina

Low cholesterol level which rises dramatically upon treatment

Lowered libido

Lowered stamina (even when stabilized on ATD1s)

Memory loss

Miscarriage

Mood swings

Nail margins uneven

Nails split into 2 layers

Nails weak, cracking

Numbness in limbs

Onycholysis (separation of nail from it1s bed)

Ovarian cysts

Panic

Racing heart (rapid pulse)

Rage

Rashes

Ridged nails (vertically) " washboarding "

Shaking hands, loss of dexterity, inability to even write clearly

Shortness of breath

Skin tags (hanging moles)

Sleeplessness

Smelly sweat (esp. feet)

Sore throat

Stomach cramps

Sweating easily, heavily

Unable to calm down and sleep after sex

Uticaria (rash)

Vitiligo (patchy loss of pigmentation in skin)

Weakness in legs and arms

Weight loss or gain (rapid)

Hypo

Aversion to cold

Brain stops working

Can't get moving

Can't spell own name

Depression

Dry, brittle hair

Eyebrows stop growing

Feeling like a slug; no energy

Feeling of being overwhelmed

Headache

Heavy menses & cramping

High cholesterol & triglyceride levels

Inability to be self-directed or stay on task

Irregular heart rate (bradycardia)

Joint pain

Long menstrual cycle

Loss of memory

Nails that split, break, get thickened

Never " right " temperature; internal thermostat not working

Panic attacks

Premature birth

Puffy eyes, face, hands, feet

Severe hair loss

Severe weight gain even when not eating much

Sleep apnea

Sleepy all day, insomnia at night

Still birth

Suicidal thoughts

Thick, dry tongue

Unable to stop crying although not " sad "

Eyes

Bad night vision

Blurring of vision

Bulging eyes

Double vision

Dry eyes

Eyestrain

Inability to close eyes to sleep

Lid lag

Sensitive to light, even indoors

Staring

Swelling of eyes

Tearing

Ulceration

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

-------------------------------------

The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

----------------------------------------

DISCLAIMER

Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

of

the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

[Guest guest]

The doctor called me back. Boy, that was fast. It usually takes me days to

get a response from him! I've been instructed to stop taking the Tapazole

for 3 days, then start back on 5mg twice a day (I'm taking 10 mg twice a day

now). Sound reasonable?

Holly

RE: weight gain

Hi Holly,

Am doing a copy/paste of the full symptom list in case you don't have it

from the archives. You may want to print it up and keep a watch on those

hypo symptoms...if you are seeing even one, call your doc to cut your dose,

don't wait until you have several of them. It will take awhile to undo

things and get you feeling better the longer you wait.

Jody

Hyper

Amennohrea, oligomenorrhea, or heavier menses

Aversion to heat, always warm

Bladder problems

Blotchy itchy patches without rash

Bouncy legs

Congestive heart failure

Constant hunger

Cramps

Depression

Difficulty breathing

Difficulty eating

Disorientation, confusion, brain fog

Dizziness

Dots (horizontally) in nails

Dry, brittle, lusterless hair

Endometriosis

Feel like you1re vibrating, tremors

Goiter

Graying hair

Hair loss

Headaches

Heartburn

High or low blood pressure problems

Hives

Hyper bowels (up to 8 movements a day)

Inability to sit still

Increased susceptibility to other immune problems (gum disease, etc.)

Infertility

Intolerant of stress (even a scary book or movie will increase heart

rate)

Irritabilty

Loss of coordination

Loss of psychological perspective on life

Loss of stamina

Low cholesterol level which rises dramatically upon treatment

Lowered libido

Lowered stamina (even when stabilized on ATD1s)

Memory loss

Miscarriage

Mood swings

Nail margins uneven

Nails split into 2 layers

Nails weak, cracking

Numbness in limbs

Onycholysis (separation of nail from it1s bed)

Ovarian cysts

Panic

Racing heart (rapid pulse)

Rage

Rashes

Ridged nails (vertically) " washboarding "

Shaking hands, loss of dexterity, inability to even write clearly

Shortness of breath

Skin tags (hanging moles)

Sleeplessness

Smelly sweat (esp. feet)

Sore throat

Stomach cramps

Sweating easily, heavily

Unable to calm down and sleep after sex

Uticaria (rash)

Vitiligo (patchy loss of pigmentation in skin)

Weakness in legs and arms

Weight loss or gain (rapid)

Hypo

Aversion to cold

Brain stops working

Can't get moving

Can't spell own name

Depression

Dry, brittle hair

Eyebrows stop growing

Feeling like a slug; no energy

Feeling of being overwhelmed

Headache

Heavy menses & cramping

High cholesterol & triglyceride levels

Inability to be self-directed or stay on task

Irregular heart rate (bradycardia)

Joint pain

Long menstrual cycle

Loss of memory

Nails that split, break, get thickened

Never " right " temperature; internal thermostat not working

Panic attacks

Premature birth

Puffy eyes, face, hands, feet

Severe hair loss

Severe weight gain even when not eating much

Sleep apnea

Sleepy all day, insomnia at night

Still birth

Suicidal thoughts

Thick, dry tongue

Unable to stop crying although not " sad "

Eyes

Bad night vision

Blurring of vision

Bulging eyes

Double vision

Dry eyes

Eyestrain

Inability to close eyes to sleep

Lid lag

Sensitive to light, even indoors

Staring

Swelling of eyes

Tearing

Ulceration

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

<http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp>

-------------------------------------

The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

----------------------------------------

DISCLAIMER

Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

of

the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

[Guest guest]

Hi Holly,

I am so glad you called him today! I can't remember what dose of which atd

you are on, but it is definately time to cut it. You sure do have a reason

for feeling so bad!

Have you talked to your doctor about using BRT (block and replace therapy)

on you? That would still block your thyroid and give it time to rest and

heal while still giving you enough thyroid hormone to feel good and stay out

of hypO hell. It is the main treatment in many European countries with much

success. Just an idea

Oh, they do use this treatment at Buffalo Childrens Hospital in Buffal, NY

for the little ones diagnosed with thyroid problems.

TTYL and hope you feel better soon.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Holly,

Yes it sounds reasonable...don't be surprised if in a matter of weeks you

are down to 1 5mg. 1 time a day. Stay on top of how you feel and never ever

hesitate to call him and request labs. When do you see him again?

Also, don't be surprised after going off for a few days and back on at a

lower dose if you do feel some hyper symptoms. You may want to give them a

few days to settle down and let your body adjust. If after a week to 10 days

you are still feeling real hyper, call him and request new labs.

Heres to feeling good!

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

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