Re: Doctor's orders and naughty patients!

[Guest guest]

,

LOL...so you are going to do it aren't you <grin>! I know my hubbys doc

(former doc for both of us now) hates me too because I ask questions, demand

answers and don't budge without them! Someone has to do it and docs really

do need to put their egos aside and remember we are people too. Not all

docs have the egos though, and that is a good thing

Let us know your results when you get them...have you signed a form at your

lab to pick up a copy of your results when they come in? I have mine before

the docs even see them anymore so I am prepared there too

TTYL

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Jody -

I'm going to have to request one of those forms to get your results. I

usually just have the doc's office give me a copy before I leave, but it

would be more convenient if they would just give me a copy direct from the

lab! I should do that for my husband's doc...they are SO anal over there.

Initially, they wouldn't even give me the results of hubby's bloodwork, said

the patient had to call directly. Well, my husband did call them directly

and let them know that he didn't have all the time in the world to be

sitting on hold waiting for them to find the results and next time they

should just give them to me! They are so bad about giving your results

there...last time I called for his cholesterol and liver enzymes, they

wouldn't give them to me as first " because the doctor hasn't looked at them

yet " . I replied, " How exactly is that MY problem? " (this was 2 days after

the results were back and the doc still hadn't looked at them). Fortunately,

they must have realized they weren't going to get rid of me that easily and

gave the results. I knew what they meant...doctor never did call after he

supposedly saw the results like he was supposed to. Sigh. I think mainly

doctors have to give people the benefit of the doubt and realize that we may

know a few things even if we didn't go to medical school.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to cheat and add in an antibody test. It's

not one of the ones listed, it would have to be written in special.

Otherwise, I probably would have!

Re: Doctor's orders and naughty patients!

>,

>LOL...so you are going to do it aren't you <grin>! I know my hubbys doc

>(former doc for both of us now) hates me too because I ask questions,

demand

>answers and don't budge without them! Someone has to do it and docs really

>do need to put their egos aside and remember we are people too. Not all

>docs have the egos though, and that is a good thing

>

>Let us know your results when you get them...have you signed a form at your

>lab to pick up a copy of your results when they come in? I have mine

before

>the docs even see them anymore so I am prepared there too

>TTYL

>Jody

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Do you go to a satellite lab or hospital lab for your lab work? I won't let

my labs be done in the doctors office anymore. It is harder to get the

results out of them than at the hospital.

It is tricky in one way that my husband can not pick up my labs, nor can I

pick up his and they won't mail them out, but we dont' live that far away so

whoever needs them can just go pick them up. I hope your lab has the same

type of program as mine. If at first they tell you they don't do that, them

you may want to speak to the supervisor of the lab and tell them what you

want, you should get farther that way, if you have any problems the other

way.

TTYL

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

I'm really shocked at the " confessions " several of you have made

recently, specifically about meddling with a doctor's orders for tests.

Although I think it's great that you are staying on top of the

information about your thyroid and other health concerns, I don't think

it's right to be fraudulently requesting tests like this. It's one

thing to be skeptical and ask additional questions, but this is much

too far.

In the case of a test being forgotten, then that just means you should

look over the form and double-check it before you leave, rather than

take it home and add it on the sneak. Otherwise, you should ask your

doctor about your interest in a certain test, and for their opinion on

it. If they don't suggest it, then perhaps there's a medical reason

that you're just not aware of, rather than them using their authority

against you.

Though these are mostly blood tests, imagine what would happen if you

added something that for some reason you shouldn't have, and then

something happened to you. The doctor would be to blame of course,

even though you were the one who meddled and added such a test.

> I think mainly doctors have to give people the benefit of the doubt

> and realize that we may know a few things even if we didn't go to

> medical school.

Especially when it comes to people's health and well-being, assuming

that you know more than a professional just because you read a little

bit on your own is a poor choice on your part. Ultimately, they have

been in school for many years, in order to do what they do, as well as

having taken an oath that they must honor. Until you have done the

same, please don't assume that you are an instant authority, just

because your doctor did not read the same articles you did or did not

interpret them in the same way.

I don't blame your doctors/nurses for giving you handwritten requests

instead.. They're often busy enough, and for you to be second-guessing

them in this extreme way doesn't help I'm sure.

-

[Guest guest]

,

I am so very surprised that you take offense at this. These are tests on our

own bodies...why should we not be allowed to insist on a certain test in

order to find info on something we may have a concern about re our illness?

Otherwise, you should ask your

> doctor about your interest in a certain test, and for their opinion on

> it. If they don't suggest it, then perhaps there's a medical reason

> that you're just not aware of, rather than them using their authority

> against you.

It sounds as tho these test are being requested over and over, so interest

has been more than expressed.

>

> Though these are mostly blood tests, imagine what would happen if you

> added something that for some reason you shouldn't have, and then

> something happened to you. The doctor would be to blame of course,

> even though you were the one who meddled and added such a test.

heaven forbid the Dr should be in trouble for missing something. No one here

is saying we know more than the professionals.

>

> I don't blame your doctors/nurses for giving you handwritten requests

> instead.. They're often busy enough, and for you to be second-guessing

> them in this extreme way doesn't help I'm sure.

One major problem is that they are TOO busy...take on too many

patients..thus not being able to see us for several months when we need an

appointment, etc. Are you a DR or are you related to one? I am simply

surprised at your angry tone.

Ruthie

>

> -

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

endorsement of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Val:

You are right. As frustrated as I am with my Endo's concern over my care

I am going to find out what tests I think I need and let him know at my

next visit, and if I feel as I do today, really push it. Also I have heard

that you can order your own tests through Quests labs and pay for them yourself

so that is another option.

-- Original Message --

>I'm really shocked at the " confessions " several of you have made

>recently, specifically about meddling with a doctor's orders for tests.

> Although I think it's great that you are staying on top of the

>information about your thyroid and other health concerns, I don't think

>it's right to be fraudulently requesting tests like this. It's one

>thing to be skeptical and ask additional questions, but this is much

>too far.

>

>In the case of a test being forgotten, then that just means you should

>look over the form and double-check it before you leave, rather than

>take it home and add it on the sneak. Otherwise, you should ask your

>doctor about your interest in a certain test, and for their opinion on

>it. If they don't suggest it, then perhaps there's a medical reason

>that you're just not aware of, rather than them using their authority

>against you.

>

>Though these are mostly blood tests, imagine what would happen if you

>added something that for some reason you shouldn't have, and then

>something happened to you. The doctor would be to blame of course,

>even though you were the one who meddled and added such a test.

>

>

>> I think mainly doctors have to give people the benefit of the doubt

>> and realize that we may know a few things even if we didn't go to

>> medical school.

>

>Especially when it comes to people's health and well-being, assuming

>that you know more than a professional just because you read a little

>bit on your own is a poor choice on your part. Ultimately, they have

>been in school for many years, in order to do what they do, as well as

>having taken an oath that they must honor. Until you have done the

>same, please don't assume that you are an instant authority, just

>because your doctor did not read the same articles you did or did not

>interpret them in the same way.

>

>I don't blame your doctors/nurses for giving you handwritten requests

>instead.. They're often busy enough, and for you to be second-guessing

>them in this extreme way doesn't help I'm sure.

>

>-

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

>Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

>of

>the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-------

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Ruthie Schaffer wrote:

> I am so very surprised that you take offense at this. These are tests

> on our own bodies...why should we not be allowed to insist on a

> certain test in order to find info on something we may have a concern

> about re our illness?

There's nothing wrong with asking a doctor about a test you are

interested in. Taking it into your own hands in such a sneaky,

fraudulent way is what I have a problem with.

> It sounds as tho these test are being requested over and over, so

> interest has been more than expressed.

Again, perhaps there are reasons for them to not be included? Why not

ask your doctor about it, rather than doing it behind their back? If

there isn't a valid reason or a political/financial one instead, then

perhaps it's time to find a new doctor..

> heaven forbid the Dr should be in trouble for missing something. No

> one here is saying we know more than the professionals.

If they didn't mark a test they said they would, get on their case

about it. In this case though, it seems that several of the list

members have added tests that they never discussed with their doctor.

This isn't the doctor missing them, it's the patient interfering.

> One major problem is that they are TOO busy...take on too many

> patients..thus not being able to see us for several months when we

> need an appointment, etc. Are you a DR or are you related to one? I

> am simply surprised at your angry tone.

I definitely agree that many of these doctors are too busy and don't

seem to care about each patient they see. That's one of the reasons I

left my last endo actually. This seems to be more of a problem with

the system in some cases though, what with all these medical insurance

companies caring more about the money they're making than the patients

they're supporting.

And no, I am not a doctor and am not related to a medical doctor. I

don't think a doctor would survive on a list like this, with all the

questions! I just think that we need to sometimes draw a line in

terms of questioning health professionals. Being skeptical and asking

questions is fine, but trying to do their job for them is going too

far.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Your right, maybe I should have shared this privately with . And

hopefully to put your mind at ease some, I haven't done this in almost 2

years...why I did it is because the first endo I had, and my former primary

would run ONLY the TSH, even when I kept telling them how bad I felt, they

kept telling me " it can't be your thyroid, your TSH is fine " ...so yes, I did

it with the T3/T4 because I KNEW what tests should be run, low and behold,

when the tests came back, my hormone needed to be increased significantly.

Had I not done it, I would have suffered needlessly for much longer.

I don't need to do it today as I have a wonderful endo who discusses things

with me, who runs blood work, if I want something added I will ask her for

it and she will do it. I also have a pretty good primary now too.

I'm not saying I would never do it again in the future, but if I did, it

would be because I was again with a dr. who doesn't listen, whose ego is

bigger than the state of Texas and who is prescription happy with

anti-depressants...since the chances of me ever being in that position again

are slim to none, I can't see myself doing it.

But you are right, I should not have said it in group as I don't want newly

diagnosed people to get the idea in their head to do this as a whim. When I

did do it, I was almost 4 years post RAI and not getting any better and the

endo was the one I started with and my former primary.

So for the new people, give your docs a chance, talk to them about stuff and

ask for tests...and if you feel like you are getting no where with them,

change doctors, as many times as necessary...there are good endos out there

and good primaries and good DO's, many of us throughout the country are

finding them...it is just a matter of taking that first step in finding a

new one, and that is a hard step to make, especially in the beginning.

Take care,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

I dont really understand what the big deal is about getting extra tests done?If

all they do is take a blood test or urinealisis,then report the results,why

shouldnt you be able to have them done?Knowing the results of a test doesnt mean

you are nessasarly getting treatment for it.So whats the harm of being able to

get more info on your own body???You pay for the test.and besides I doubt that

anyone who does this would order a test there not familuar with,or knowlageable

enough to know if its going to be harmful to them.Besides the Drs need all the

help they can get in my opinion,they spend 2 min.looking at your chart then if

you have alot of questions or complaints maybe 15 more minutes with you.If you

can go in with questions and test results,you might get better care,who knows I

like the idea myself...Cheryl

Re: Doctor's orders and naughty patients!

I'm really shocked at the " confessions " several of you have made

recently, specifically about meddling with a doctor's orders for tests.

Although I think it's great that you are staying on top of the

information about your thyroid and other health concerns, I don't think

it's right to be fraudulently requesting tests like this. It's one

thing to be skeptical and ask additional questions, but this is much

too far.

In the case of a test being forgotten, then that just means you should

look over the form and double-check it before you leave, rather than

take it home and add it on the sneak. Otherwise, you should ask your

doctor about your interest in a certain test, and for their opinion on

it. If they don't suggest it, then perhaps there's a medical reason

that you're just not aware of, rather than them using their authority

against you.

Though these are mostly blood tests, imagine what would happen if you

added something that for some reason you shouldn't have, and then

something happened to you. The doctor would be to blame of course,

even though you were the one who meddled and added such a test.

> I think mainly doctors have to give people the benefit of the doubt

> and realize that we may know a few things even if we didn't go to

> medical school.

Especially when it comes to people's health and well-being, assuming

that you know more than a professional just because you read a little

bit on your own is a poor choice on your part. Ultimately, they have

been in school for many years, in order to do what they do, as well as

having taken an oath that they must honor. Until you have done the

same, please don't assume that you are an instant authority, just

because your doctor did not read the same articles you did or did not

interpret them in the same way.

I don't blame your doctors/nurses for giving you handwritten requests

instead.. They're often busy enough, and for you to be second-guessing

them in this extreme way doesn't help I'm sure.

-

[Guest guest]

I think this is a reasonable opinion, . Up until a few years ago, I would

never think of doing something like this. However, the more experience I have

with doctors, the more I realize that they are not as " infallible " as we might

like to hope. My previous doc, who I no longer go to and advise other people not

to go to, was very ineffective with both my and my husband's care. My husband

had high results on both cholesterol and fasting glucose tests for 2 years and

all this doc did was tell him to alter his diet and exercise and nothing else

needed to be done because he's only 30! Now, we didn't know better then and did

what she said and also didn't question her advice. We _regret_ that now. My

husband was just diagnosed (by a different doc) this January with insulin

dependent diabetes. His _fasting_ glucose was 340! His cholesterol was 380! His

new doc isn't willing to go on the record with this, but has told us that if he

had something more proactive done sooner, he might not be in the situation he is

now. With the same doc, I had an incidence of labyrinthitis. First doc did only

an electrolyte test, and when that came up normal she said she didn't know what

else would be causing my dizziness, and apparently wasn't interested in finding

out, because she didn't schedule any more tests or see me again to discuss what

to check next. Went to a second doc and he immediately recognized that it was

labyrinthitis and gave me medication and I felt much better in 3 days. Meantime,

I wasted 2 1/2 weeks feeling lousy waiting for doc #1 to do nothing for me. I've

had other experiences. My kids' pediatrician prescribed sulpha for my daughter,

told her not to because we've got 4 generations of sulpha allergy and she's

probably allergic, too. Doc replies, " oh, no, drug allergies aren't inherited! " .

Bull. 5 days later, guess what, my daughter had an allergic reaction to sulpha.

Now I realize that doctors aren't infallible. The are human just like us. They

only know more because they've been to medical school and had more practical

experience. So now I realize that the only person who can truly be responsible

for my health and family members is me. I get copies of labwork, I go to all

appointments and ask 50 million questions. I read all I can on medical problems

we have and research. One doc told me that a lot of the time they don't run all

the tests they might think reasonable is the expense and the insurance companies

get on their case. He said that's why docs commonly don't call for FT4 and FT3

tests, only TSH because the other 2 are more expensive. Do I like being slightly

unorthodox with my doc? No. But nor do I like my health being put in possible

jeopardy because the test " costs too much " , or because I " probably " don't have

that problem. One more case in point, recently convinced my new doc to order a

bone density scan for me (took a lot of convincing). He said that because of my

age, nothing abnormal would show up. Boy, was he surprised when the results came

back that I have beginning stages of osteoporosis.

Now, I have the greatest respect for most medical professionals, particularly

nurses. They often work harder than the doctors. (My mom is a nurse - and she

could tell you some stories about doctor's mistakes as I'm sure any nurse can) I

think doctors would do well to give patients the benefit of the doubt. Most

people know their own bodies pretty well and know when something is " not right " .

Seeing as how these are simply blood tests, there isn't any harm being done to

oneself. Half the time they don't even tell you what they're testing for anyway

- I have a problem with that, I have a right to know what my blood says about

me! I think most of the tests we are talking about, there isn't a medical reason

for not having them, it's a cost issue. Therein lies the problem. I also don't

think anyone here assumes they are an authority on GD (maybe Elaine, but she's a

special case! :-) ). However, since this disease is not a common disease or is

" popular " these days like hyperlipidemia or diabetes. most docs don't know that

much about it. My doc didn't know that a peak time for getting GD was 3-7 months

postpartum, a fact a found thanks to a book recommendation by Elaine. So I think

it's even more important with disease like this to question the doc's tests and

check everything. I don't think many regular docs know that it's possible to

have both Hashi's and GD antibodies, a subject of recent discussion here. Yes,

you have a valid point , I think you're right and I don't recommend

anyone changing doctor's orders. And I will ask to get a test performed, but if

it comes down to a cost issue vs. my health, I would have no qualms about doing

something like adding a test. Hey, if I have to pay for it myself, I have no

problem with that. I'd rather have answers than worry about something being

missed. My husband's health has already been jeopardized by an inattentive

doctor. (The last time he saw her, they didn't even order bloodwork to check his

blood sugar!) I am _not_ going to let the same thing happen again.

, respectfully asserting my opinion through the eyes of someone who has

been very jaded by the medical system

Re: Doctor's orders and naughty patients!

I'm really shocked at the " confessions " several of you have made

recently, specifically about meddling with a doctor's orders for tests.

Although I think it's great that you are staying on top of the

information about your thyroid and other health concerns, I don't think

it's right to be fraudulently requesting tests like this. It's one

thing to be skeptical and ask additional questions, but this is much

too far.

In the case of a test being forgotten, then that just means you should

look over the form and double-check it before you leave, rather than

take it home and add it on the sneak. Otherwise, you should ask your

doctor about your interest in a certain test, and for their opinion on

it. If they don't suggest it, then perhaps there's a medical reason

that you're just not aware of, rather than them using their authority

against you.

Though these are mostly blood tests, imagine what would happen if you

added something that for some reason you shouldn't have, and then

something happened to you. The doctor would be to blame of course,

even though you were the one who meddled and added such a test.

> I think mainly doctors have to give people the benefit of the doubt

> and realize that we may know a few things even if we didn't go to

> medical school.

Especially when it comes to people's health and well-being, assuming

that you know more than a professional just because you read a little

bit on your own is a poor choice on your part. Ultimately, they have

been in school for many years, in order to do what they do, as well as

having taken an oath that they must honor. Until you have done the

same, please don't assume that you are an instant authority, just

because your doctor did not read the same articles you did or did not

interpret them in the same way.

I don't blame your doctors/nurses for giving you handwritten requests

instead.. They're often busy enough, and for you to be second-guessing

them in this extreme way doesn't help I'm sure.

-

[Guest guest]

,

I am not one who did the nasty deed, but I am a bit overwhelmed by your

response! I think we've been trained to look to doctors as gods in this

society, and they are just humans, like us. In a disease like this, you

develop a long-term relationship (ideally) with a doctor, and often get to

know his or her strengths and weaknesses--mine, for instance, admitted to me

last visit that he rarely pays attention to all the other possible symptoms

of GD than the primary ones, and since he relies on test results that are

not totally accurate (tsh), I lost faith in him. Our relationship actually

improved when I demanded other tests and he acquiesced, and last time I went

in we talked more in depth than ever before, and he even asked to see our

symptom list next time I came in.

Looking over a test sheet before you leave the office is all well and good

if you know what you should be seeing--but for instance, in my case, I read

a lot here after my office visit and lab slip about the TSH not being

adequate to show my state, and was frustrated by the hypO symptoms I felt

even though TSH showed me below normal ranges--I went the route of demanding

that I get the tests I wanted, after conversing here with Elaine about what

to order. I would not have known in the office what those were.

We can all educate ourselves, we can all realize our education's and minds

shortcomings as well--I have a terrible time with med terminology, am at sea

with a lot of Elaine's book for instance, and know I would rather have a

dialog with my current endo, get him to order the tests even though he

doesn't believe they are warranted, then do it myself. But that brings up

another interesting fact: you can order your own tests, on line, without a

doctor. The URL is back there in the archives somewhere, I know because I am

one of several that passed it on at various times.

Also, I am having a hard time imagining a test that could have an adverse

effect that could then cause you to sue the MD!

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:54:44 -0700 (PDT)

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: Doctor's orders and naughty patients!

>

> I'm really shocked at the " confessions " several of you have made

> recently, specifically about meddling with a doctor's orders for tests.

> Although I think it's great that you are staying on top of the

> information about your thyroid and other health concerns, I don't think

> it's right to be fraudulently requesting tests like this. It's one

> thing to be skeptical and ask additional questions, but this is much

> too far.

>

> In the case of a test being forgotten, then that just means you should

> look over the form and double-check it before you leave, rather than

> take it home and add it on the sneak. Otherwise, you should ask your

> doctor about your interest in a certain test, and for their opinion on

> it. If they don't suggest it, then perhaps there's a medical reason

> that you're just not aware of, rather than them using their authority

> against you.

>

> Though these are mostly blood tests, imagine what would happen if you

> added something that for some reason you shouldn't have, and then

> something happened to you. The doctor would be to blame of course,

> even though you were the one who meddled and added such a test.

>

>

>> I think mainly doctors have to give people the benefit of the doubt

>> and realize that we may know a few things even if we didn't go to

>> medical school.

>

> Especially when it comes to people's health and well-being, assuming

> that you know more than a professional just because you read a little

> bit on your own is a poor choice on your part. Ultimately, they have

> been in school for many years, in order to do what they do, as well as

> having taken an oath that they must honor. Until you have done the

> same, please don't assume that you are an instant authority, just

> because your doctor did not read the same articles you did or did not

> interpret them in the same way.

>

> I don't blame your doctors/nurses for giving you handwritten requests

> instead.. They're often busy enough, and for you to be second-guessing

> them in this extreme way doesn't help I'm sure.

>

> -

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

> of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>

>

[Guest guest]

A good doctor wont care if you need extra tests. A good doctor will

listen when you think you know something they dont. A good doctor will

understand your desperation and why you changed your meds before the

three weeks was up to get an appointment.

I have read more and more that docs are missing stuff, making

mistakes, and misdiagnosing. It IS our responsibility to police our

own health issues and make whatever demands necessary to ensure the

quality of our lives.

My 2 cents

val