Re: Silly me -- thought I was feeling better

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper -

I've been taking the armour sublingually for about 3 months now. And

have always split my dose - 1/2 in am and the other 1/2 around 3:00.

So those variables haven't changed recently.

The flu wasn't real bad. I never threw up, but just felt quesey for

over a week and more tired than normal (and no, I can't be pregnant

which is what everyone here is asking me! My kids had it -- altho

they threw up, slept for a day and were then back to normal. My

husband's also had it, and it's going on over a week for him too. I

guess us old folks just can't handle it like the young ones!!)

So, back to your questions -- I didn't take any meds for it, but I

didn't really eat very good with the quesey stomach. I also didn't

sleep much for a few nights because I was up with the kids throwing

up. That's why I inceased the adrenals for a few days -- I figured

with all the illness, plus the recent increase in armour, probably put

stress on my adrenals.

I never did have a fever. I'm using a basal digital thermometer (the

only one I could find that wasn't a simple fever one), but it's the

same one I've been using.

Before the armour increase and the flu, my temps were generally 97.4

and higher. Afterwards, they dropped to 96.8, then 97.1, then 96.2,

then up, then down. Very wierd, but never as high as before.

I figured when I felt good a month ago, it was probably due to the

lingering T4 in my system giving me a total higher dose. So I was

anticipating some hypo symptoms returning before I could get the

armour back up there. (But thinking it and feeling it are two

different things!!)

I think I'll eventually end up at a higher armour dose, but plan on

sitting here at 3 for a while to let the T4 catch up.

Anyway, I had the hot flashes and not sleeping good when my cortisol

tested both high and low on different occasions. The last time, when

they were low, is when I started on the nutri-meds. And I could

really tell they made a difference.

So I'm not sure if now I've got too much in my system (perhaps my own

adrenals are healing and working better) or maybe I don't have enough

(if the illness and the armour increase put more stress on them.)

I know I need to sit tight and let the armour increase play out and my

body recover from the flu before making any big changes -- but I may

have to change the adrenal part some. I've went back to my regular

adrenal dose for about 5 days now. I'll see how tonight goes.

Anything make any sense here? Thanks, as always, Topper, for your

help and caring.

Debbie

> Thoughts that come to mind....

>

> How are you taking the Armour: sublingual or swallowing, full stomach or

> empty?

>

> Are you taking the Armour in one dose or more? are you taking it the

same

> time everyday?

>

> Did you have a fever when you had the flu?

>

> What kind of thermometer are you using?

>

> What medications did you take for the flu?

>

> Did your eating patterns or meal choices changed when you had the flu?

>

> When you have an illness, like the flu, that causes your body to

increase

> temperature, it puts a lot of stress on a weak thyroid and/or adrenals,

> so it can throw things off. If your digestion is off (diarrhea or not

> wanting to eat regularly) it can change how you are absorbing meds (if

> you are swallowing the armour), vitamins and supplements and REALLY mess

> up your conversion. Things like alka selzer and other over the counter

> things that folks take for flu and colds affects thyroid hormone too.

>

> Now for some math....

>

> A grain of armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3

> T3 is four times as potent as T4

>

> So at three grains of armour you are getting [(38 x 3) + ((9 x 4) x 3)]

> 222 mcg of T4

>

> Before you were taking T4 plus a grain of armour [137 + 38 + (9 x

4)] for

> a total 211 mcg of T4.

>

> BUT there is still a difference in how T4 and T3 are used. T3 is 95%

used

> up in four hours. So if you are single dosing.. that could be the

> difference.

>

> Also, one other fly in the ointment. If your adrenals were pooped

and the

> Nutri-meds got them in better shape... your body is utilizing more

of the

> thyroid hormone now, than it did before which means that it can handle

> more hormone, which means you need to take more than before.

>

> Increased activity, increased metabolic rate all these things increase

> the bodies needs for hormone... that could also account for an

> increase... or if you are single dosing.. it may mean the for now, at

> least, multidosing will even out the T3 in your system.. giving you more

> consistent levels.

>

> Remember, if you are dosing sublingually you are getting nearly 100 % of

> the dose, if you are swallowing you could be getting as little as 50

% of

> the dose.

>

> You want your waking temps to be at least 98.0 (using a mercury

> thermometer, under the tongue - the most accurate way to measure) Armpit

> is generally 1 degree lower. Digital fever thermometers are NOT accurate

> enough, they are designed to test for INCREASED temp, not track less

than

> normal temps.

>

> All kinds of variables to consider.. I'll wait to hear from you....

We'll

> get this figured out...

>

> Topper ()

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper -

I've been taking the armour sublingually for about 3 months now. And

have always split my dose - 1/2 in am and the other 1/2 around 3:00.

So those variables haven't changed recently.

The flu wasn't real bad. I never threw up, but just felt quesey for

over a week and more tired than normal (and no, I can't be pregnant

which is what everyone here is asking me! My kids had it -- altho

they threw up, slept for a day and were then back to normal. My

husband's also had it, and it's going on over a week for him too. I

guess us old folks just can't handle it like the young ones!!)

So, back to your questions -- I didn't take any meds for it, but I

didn't really eat very good with the quesey stomach. I also didn't

sleep much for a few nights because I was up with the kids throwing

up. That's why I inceased the adrenals for a few days -- I figured

with all the illness, plus the recent increase in armour, probably put

stress on my adrenals.

I never did have a fever. I'm using a basal digital thermometer (the

only one I could find that wasn't a simple fever one), but it's the

same one I've been using.

Before the armour increase and the flu, my temps were generally 97.4

and higher. Afterwards, they dropped to 96.8, then 97.1, then 96.2,

then up, then down. Very wierd, but never as high as before.

I figured when I felt good a month ago, it was probably due to the

lingering T4 in my system giving me a total higher dose. So I was

anticipating some hypo symptoms returning before I could get the

armour back up there. (But thinking it and feeling it are two

different things!!)

I think I'll eventually end up at a higher armour dose, but plan on

sitting here at 3 for a while to let the T4 catch up.

Anyway, I had the hot flashes and not sleeping good when my cortisol

tested both high and low on different occasions. The last time, when

they were low, is when I started on the nutri-meds. And I could

really tell they made a difference.

So I'm not sure if now I've got too much in my system (perhaps my own

adrenals are healing and working better) or maybe I don't have enough

(if the illness and the armour increase put more stress on them.)

I know I need to sit tight and let the armour increase play out and my

body recover from the flu before making any big changes -- but I may

have to change the adrenal part some. I've went back to my regular

adrenal dose for about 5 days now. I'll see how tonight goes.

Anything make any sense here? Thanks, as always, Topper, for your

help and caring.

Debbie

> Thoughts that come to mind....

>

> How are you taking the Armour: sublingual or swallowing, full stomach or

> empty?

>

> Are you taking the Armour in one dose or more? are you taking it the

same

> time everyday?

>

> Did you have a fever when you had the flu?

>

> What kind of thermometer are you using?

>

> What medications did you take for the flu?

>

> Did your eating patterns or meal choices changed when you had the flu?

>

> When you have an illness, like the flu, that causes your body to

increase

> temperature, it puts a lot of stress on a weak thyroid and/or adrenals,

> so it can throw things off. If your digestion is off (diarrhea or not

> wanting to eat regularly) it can change how you are absorbing meds (if

> you are swallowing the armour), vitamins and supplements and REALLY mess

> up your conversion. Things like alka selzer and other over the counter

> things that folks take for flu and colds affects thyroid hormone too.

>

> Now for some math....

>

> A grain of armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3

> T3 is four times as potent as T4

>

> So at three grains of armour you are getting [(38 x 3) + ((9 x 4) x 3)]

> 222 mcg of T4

>

> Before you were taking T4 plus a grain of armour [137 + 38 + (9 x

4)] for

> a total 211 mcg of T4.

>

> BUT there is still a difference in how T4 and T3 are used. T3 is 95%

used

> up in four hours. So if you are single dosing.. that could be the

> difference.

>

> Also, one other fly in the ointment. If your adrenals were pooped

and the

> Nutri-meds got them in better shape... your body is utilizing more

of the

> thyroid hormone now, than it did before which means that it can handle

> more hormone, which means you need to take more than before.

>

> Increased activity, increased metabolic rate all these things increase

> the bodies needs for hormone... that could also account for an

> increase... or if you are single dosing.. it may mean the for now, at

> least, multidosing will even out the T3 in your system.. giving you more

> consistent levels.

>

> Remember, if you are dosing sublingually you are getting nearly 100 % of

> the dose, if you are swallowing you could be getting as little as 50

% of

> the dose.

>

> You want your waking temps to be at least 98.0 (using a mercury

> thermometer, under the tongue - the most accurate way to measure) Armpit

> is generally 1 degree lower. Digital fever thermometers are NOT accurate

> enough, they are designed to test for INCREASED temp, not track less

than

> normal temps.

>

> All kinds of variables to consider.. I'll wait to hear from you....

We'll

> get this figured out...

>

> Topper ()

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm *finally* starting to get it that my body actually needs to

heal. It helps so much feeling that I'm at least on the right path.

Before I didn't have a clue what I was doing and I attributed

everything to thyroid and didn't know anything about adrenals or iron.

It has helped so much having these groups to read and learn from

everyone's experiences.

The Nutri-meds adrenal -- I tried to take it sublingually, but always

gagged when I did. I just couldn't stand the taste so I have been

just swallowing it.

I worked myself up to 3 and this is where I've been for a few months.

I take one when I first get up, then another around 8:30 when I take

my my armour, and a 3rd at noon. I've learned that if I take one any

later than this, I don't sleep well.

Once, I increased to 4 for a while when I had a cold, but I think I

stayed at 4 for too long because I started having some problems with

sleep. When I backed down to 3, I felt much better.

I did have a better night last night and I feel much more " normal "

today. The hypo symptoms are still here, but I can deal with them

better knowing I'll be able to raise soon if I need to. It was the

hot flashes and poor sleeping that really freaked me out. It's been

quite a while since I felt that way (since I started the adrenals) and

I really don't want to go back to that.

I know I need to stay here at 3 grains for a few more weeks. I

probably should sit tight and heal completely from the flu before

making any drastic changes with the adrenals, I guess. Since I feel

much more alert today, I'm thinking part of my problem was just the

illness still in my body.

It's amazing how much more optomistic you feel when you've had a

better night's sleep!!

Since you've been taking the adrenals a while, how do you know when

it's time to drop back on them? I've read that the adrenals should

eventually heal themselves and hopefully I wouldn't have to take the

supplements forever. But I wonder what signs there are that it's time

to decrease?

Debbie

> Yes, you're making sense... and I'm proud of you for understanding that

> you have to give your body time....

>

> I'm wondering... the Nutri-Meds adrenal.... are you taking that

> sublingually too, and when.... I find it best to take it first thing in

> the morning.. when the adrenals have their biggest regular job and then

> let them function normally the rest of the time....

>

> Tell me about how you are taking it now....

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:58 -0000 " Debbie " <sdlentz2@y...> writes:

>

> Hi Topper -

>

> I've been taking the armour sublingually for about 3 months now. And

> have always split my dose - 1/2 in am and the other 1/2 around 3:00.

> So those variables haven't changed recently.

>

> The flu wasn't real bad. I never threw up, but just felt queasy for

> over a week and more tired than normal (and no, I can't be pregnant

> which is what everyone here is asking me! My kids had it -- altho

> they threw up, slept for a day and were then back to normal. My

> husband's also had it, and it's going on over a week for him too. I

> guess us old folks just can't handle it like the young ones!!)

>

> So, back to your questions -- I didn't take any meds for it, but I

> didn't really eat very good with the quesey stomach. I also didn't

> sleep much for a few nights because I was up with the kids throwing

> up. That's why I inceased the adrenals for a few days -- I figured

> with all the illness, plus the recent increase in armour, probably put

> stress on my adrenals.

>

> I never did have a fever. I'm using a basal digital thermometer (the

> only one I could find that wasn't a simple fever one), but it's the

> same one I've been using.

>

> Before the armour increase and the flu, my temps were generally 97.4

> and higher. Afterwards, they dropped to 96.8, then 97.1, then 96.2,

> then up, then down. Very wierd, but never as high as before.

>

> I figured when I felt good a month ago, it was probably due to the

> lingering T4 in my system giving me a total higher dose. So I was

> anticipating some hypo symptoms returning before I could get the

> armour back up there. (But thinking it and feeling it are two

> different things!!)

>

> I think I'll eventually end up at a higher armour dose, but plan on

> sitting here at 3 for a while to let the T4 catch up.

>

> Anyway, I had the hot flashes and not sleeping good when my cortisol

> tested both high and low on different occasions. The last time, when

> they were low, is when I started on the nutri-meds. And I could

> really tell they made a difference.

>

> So I'm not sure if now I've got too much in my system (perhaps my own

> adrenals are healing and working better) or maybe I don't have enough

> (if the illness and the armour increase put more stress on them.)

>

> I know I need to sit tight and let the armour increase play out and my

> body recover from the flu before making any big changes -- but I may

> have to change the adrenal part some. I've went back to my regular

> adrenal dose for about 5 days now. I'll see how tonight goes.

>

> Anything make any sense here? Thanks, as always, Topper, for your

> help and caring.

>

> Debbie

[Guest guest]

You know, I started taking my thyroid meds at 9:00 when I was

swallowing them because I always had milk 1st thing in the morning so

I would try to wait 2 hours because of the calcium thing.

Now that I'm taking the armour sublingually, the 2 hours probably

aren't necessary. I've even been reading posts about this, but didn't

really connect it to me! I guess you just get into a habit and don't

think about it.

So I'll try taking the armour earlier with my adrenal and see if that

makes a difference. Since I now take my adrenal at 7, 9 and noon, do

you think I should try maybe taking 2 1st thing in the morning instead

of spacing it out? But, maybe that would be too much at once. Of

course, I guess the only way to really know is to try it!!

And I definetely understand what you mean by the constipation problem!

I had that when a dr screwed up my thyroid rx and it ended up

shutting down my colon and I had to " retrain " it. It was horrible!

Actually, I suspect that might be where my adrenal problem really

started.

Thanks Topper

Debbie

>

> Debbie... Try taking the first dose of armour and adrenal as soon as you

> wake.. they are both hormones that your body really needs when you first

> wake up.... after the Armour is dissolved then you can eat breakfast

> right away... another way to help out your adrenals....

>

> It seems to help me the most to take the adrenal during the morning, to

> cover that first morning demand on the adrenals. At one time I was doing

> adrenal twice, but have backed up to once... popping the adrenal and the

> thyroid under my tongue at the same time, as soon as I wake up...

> Splitting the tabs breaks that coating so that they dissolve much

> faster... I'm so used to the taste of both that they don't bother me at

> all any more.

>

> I feel so much better now that I did before... I've said it many times

> before... but it bears saying again. It may be a pain in the butt to

> figure out dosages and schedules and what tweaking your body needs.. but

> to figure it out and have your body start mending ... to start getting

> back things that you've been missing ARE SO VERY VERY WORTH THE EFFORT

> that, well... just do it!!!! heheheheh

>

> ... I still have my bad days... there are still things that I can't

do so

> well... but I'm not on crutches anymore. I can sleep deep enough to

dream

> and heal now. I don't have chronic headaches anymore.

>

> .... and one of the best things... I can go potty... normally.... no

more

> weeks of constipation... gosh.. I think that bugged me as much as any of

> the other stuff.... to not have plumbing that works right just SUCKS!!!!

>

> Anyway.. back to the adrenals.. I had started backing down when I could

> afford to buy more... after a few weeks I was notice I was more weepy...

> harder to fall asleep.. just a little 'in the back of my mind naggy

> feeling' that something wasn't quite right.

>

> For perspective.. I was up to 1 1/2 tabs of the Nutri-Meds adrenal,

taken

> sublingually (so that is close to 100 percent absorption versus as

little

> as 50% when you swallow them, depending on your digestion, etc) I'd

> backed down to a 1/2 tab.. and it just wasn't 'right'...I've gone

back up

> to 3/4 tab and feel a bit better there.... I'll have to hold at that

> until I can order more when the weather warms up. I'm one that is very

> careful with temp considerations of meds and so I won't order during the

> winter months when we are sooooo cold here in Minnesota.

>

> For badly fatigued adrenals they say support for up to 2 years... the 2

> year mark for me is February.... but I deal with a lot of daily

stress so

> it may be that I'm not doing as well as I could be....

>

> Even so... if it happens to turn out that I have to keep taking a

morning

> dose for a while longer.. that's still fine with me. The quality of my

> physical and mental self is better... so it's worth it to me.

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:07:06 -0000 " Debbie " <sdlentz2@y...> writes:

>

> Well, I'm *finally* starting to get it that my body actually needs to

> heal. It helps so much feeling that I'm at least on the right path.

> Before I didn't have a clue what I was doing and I attributed

> everything to thyroid and didn't know anything about adrenals or iron.

> It has helped so much having these groups to read and learn from

> everyone's experiences.

>

> The Nutri-meds adrenal -- I tried to take it sublingually, but always

> gagged when I did. I just couldn't stand the taste so I have been

> just swallowing it.

>

> I worked myself up to 3 and this is where I've been for a few months.

> I take one when I first get up, then another around 8:30 when I take

> my my armour, and a 3rd at noon. I've learned that if I take one any

> later than this, I don't sleep well.

>

> Once, I increased to 4 for a while when I had a cold, but I think I

> stayed at 4 for too long because I started having some problems with

> sleep. When I backed down to 3, I felt much better.

>

> I did have a better night last night and I feel much more " normal "

> today. The hypo symptoms are still here, but I can deal with them

> better knowing I'll be able to raise soon if I need to. It was the

> hot flashes and poor sleeping that really freaked me out. It's been

> quite a while since I felt that way (since I started the adrenals) and

> I really don't want to go back to that.

>

> I know I need to stay here at 3 grains for a few more weeks. I

> probably should sit tight and heal completely from the flu before

> making any drastic changes with the adrenals, I guess. Since I feel

> much more alert today, I'm thinking part of my problem was just the

> illness still in my body.

>

> It's amazing how much more optomistic you feel when you've had a

> better night's sleep!!

>

> Since you've been taking the adrenals a while, how do you know when

> it's time to drop back on them? I've read that the adrenals should

> eventually heal themselves and hopefully I wouldn't have to take the

> supplements forever. But I wonder what signs there are that it's time

> to decrease?

>

> Debbie

[Guest guest]

Jeannie - I am certainly not an authority on adrenals, but have

definetely had problems with them. Adrenals help your thryoid to get

into the tissues. If there's not enough adrenals, the thryoid

hormones will build up in the blood and give hyper symptoms like

weakness, heart racing, which is what I had. Adrenals become low and

depleted from stress (untreated hypo). I'm not that good at

explaining it so hopefully someone else will do better!

There's also a helpful chart at this site that helped me kinda

separate my thyroid and adrenals symptoms:

http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

There are also saliva tests which will measure the amount of cortisol

(adrenal) to see if you are low.

Debbie

> I am hearing a lot of discussion about adrenals on this site. How

do you know if you need adrenal? I have sleep apnea, so I have no

problem falling asleep, I just stop breathing 40-50 times an hour and

don't get enough oxygen to my blood and brain unless I sleep with a

CPAP machine every night. While I am still really tired, I don't feel

the need to fall asleep all through the day since I have been sleeping

with the machine. What exactly does the adrenal do?

>