Re: Wraparound

May 17, 2002

In a message dated 5/17/02 4:17:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

parenting_autism writes:

<< I have just gotton a new behavior consultant from Wraparound services. I

was

so happy to have someone that I didn't realize I had to have my guard up.

Somehow an ABA system has been put in place in my living room. I am still

in shock because ABA will NOT work for my daughter. We do use some ABA

strategies but I am very much against forcing my daughter to sit in a chair.

She isn't even three yet. I had a argument with the TSS that has left a

very

bad taste in my mouth. I just cannot do this - is very smart and if

they would just let me do it my way she would be in the DAMN chair within a

month. If we do it THEIR way she's going to still be screaming bloody

murder

in a month and STILL not sitting in the chair. I tried to show the TSS how

we should do it after spending half an hour calming down. She said

that I HAD to have her sit at the table and she called her supervisor. Now

after being slammed in the face, head butted, and huge hunks of hair pulled

out of my head obviously was not going to do this. The only reason I

tried was because everyone seemed to think that this was going to work out

great. NOT. That's why I didn't do ABA in the first place (besides we

couldn't afford it). This BITES and I want all these darn people the heck

out of my house. I hate this I really hate this. The worst part is I can't

even talk with my husband cause he never knows what the hell is going on.

G

>>

Now...I am no ABA expert...but I thought that they were supposed to first use

reinforcers to teach a child to sit in the chair, not force her to sit in the

chair?

I suggest asking for a meeting in which you get to ask questions, raise your

concerns, and get answers on the methodology. Then based on the outcome of

your meeting, and the answers, you can then make a decision based on whats

best for .

June

May 17, 2002

, you are TOTALLY not going to want to hear this, and feel free to

delete it and yell at me if you want to. :-)

How about giving it a month?

I felt in my heart that ABA wouldn't work for . And because until last

year you had to PAY for ABA, we never tried it. But if someone had offered

it to me free, I definitely would have given it a good try.

Sure, she's fighting them. ALL kids fight the structure of a new therapy

for the first while, exactly the same way fought this one -- tantrums,

screaming, violence -- it's a reaction to the sudden change in routine and

expectations.

Why not give it a month? If she's still enraged after that time, you can

stop. I truly don't think that can hurt her, I truly don't. But what if

she does respond? Even with Kara, it took 2 weeks to stop screaming

and fighting when she came, and she wasn't even implementing anything more

than making sit and attend to what they were doing. He HATED having her

impel him to do something, no matter what.

You know best, which is why I say that you can yell at me if you want.

If you are 100% certain this will NOT work, then by all means get rid of it.

But if there's even .0000001% of a chance that it might help, could you find

the tolerance to do a one-month trial period?

Jacquie

-trying to just offer an alternative, not trying to give offense.

May 17, 2002

,

You have final say in what they do with your child. If these people tell

you that they are going to do ABA with her, tell them to get the hell out of

your house! What you are doing with her sounds like she's going to do

better with than what they want to do with her. Other moms here will tell

you that ABA isn't for all children. Go with your gut and give em the boot!

Sue

May 17, 2002

This would make me VERY unhappy.

I don't know how the so-called " professionals " can FORCE you into any one

particular therapy, especially when you are not comfortable with it.

It may be a case of " this is all they know " ...

YOU know there are other options.

Please don't let them push you around...YOU know your daughter best.

Penny

May 17, 2002

,

My Son is 5 and when he started school I was like ya

right he is not going to sit for the ABA but they got

him to do it by POSITIVE reinforcement. He may have

been pissed but he did it and it was only ever 10 mins

in and a break and then another 10 min......or

something like that either way he really loved his

class and his teachers once the routine was

established..... I think 3 is a little young to begin

that battle but that is my opinion....I am not the be

all and end all. Ben's class actually has 2 3yr olds

and one does well and the other well lets just say he

didn't cope well.

=====

TTFN

Wife to

Mom to Ben (aka Gozilla) 5yrs HFA/AS

On call milk machine to Abby(aka ....stinkerbell) 21MTHS NT

__________________________________________________

May 17, 2002

,

While I am not one to ever claim ABA to be the one and only way - -I have to

say that you have to give it a little time before you can say that it will

or will not work. It does not work for everyone, but your is young

enough, and delayed enough that it COULD work, and it COULD help her to

learn.

Day 1 is NEVER pretty. There are different approaches to ABA, and

obviously - your consultants think that sitting is more important than

pairing. In any case, children learn quick. You've heard stories about my

Madison..... or do I need to remind you just how stubborn this child is?

Even Madison sits, and sits well. Yes, she still chooses what she will

learn, and tunes out what she will not - but she sits, she stays, and she

tries.

I don't believe in being forced to sit either. How about you ask the

consultant to pair herself with a reinforcer with sitting as the only

demand, with tons of praise along with goodies....... if the idea of pairing

is new to her - - - - then heck, ABA is new to this woman also. " GET OUT "

would come to mind. Being forced to sit - - -well, that's just OLD SCHOOL!

Again, please know that I am not saying ABA is a do or die thing. Plenty of

autistic kids have excelled without it, but another fact is - - a whole lot

of kids have also benefitted immensely from it. You can't say it won't work

until you've given it a go. She's so young and it's all so early - - what

could it possibly hurt? But again.... if this ABA consultant doesn't know

what she's doing, it could be detrimental. I suggest you study ABA to the

core, and oversee to make sure it's being done the way it SHOULD be done.

Grace

Wraparound

> I have just gotton a new behavior consultant from Wraparound services. I

was

> so happy to have someone that I didn't realize I had to have my guard up.

> Somehow an ABA system has been put in place in my living room. I am

still

> in shock because ABA will NOT work for my daughter. We do use some ABA

> strategies but I am very much against forcing my daughter to sit in a

chair.

> She isn't even three yet. I had a argument with the TSS that has left a

very

> bad taste in my mouth. I just cannot do this - is very smart and if

> they would just let me do it my way she would be in the DAMN chair within

a

> month. If we do it THEIR way she's going to still be screaming bloody

murder

> in a month and STILL not sitting in the chair. I tried to show the TSS

how

> we should do it after spending half an hour calming down. She said

> that I HAD to have her sit at the table and she called her supervisor.

Now

> after being slammed in the face, head butted, and huge hunks of hair

pulled

> out of my head obviously was not going to do this. The only reason

I

> tried was because everyone seemed to think that this was going to work out

> great. NOT. That's why I didn't do ABA in the first place (besides we

> couldn't afford it). This BITES and I want all these darn people the heck

> out of my house. I hate this I really hate this. The worst part is I

can't

> even talk with my husband cause he never knows what the hell is going on.

>

> G

>

May 18, 2002

I would never yell at you! It's not the ABA that I have the problem with

because I like the trials, the structure, and the record keeping. It's the

DTT which I never agreed to. I want to do the work, but I don't want

to force her to sit in the chair. I think that it will be easier for

everyone involved and quicker if we interest her in the work and then she can

see why she's at the table. She likes to work and she likes people. She is

JUST starting to sit this is a sensory issue because she has just gotton the

abdominal strength needed to sit in a chair. That's why I'm against it not

the tantrums. She is very " strong willed " and has an excellent memory. I

just know if we can interest her that eventually she will go to the table and

the chair on her own.

Thanks for listening.

G

May 18, 2002

I lucked out with Nicky's ABA therapist. She did not demand that he

sit in a chair at first. The first time, she came with a bag of

toys, sat down in the middle of the floor, and simply unloaded her

bag and waited. It was a small room, so Nicky really had no choice

but to interact with her stuff, even if it was just to trip over

them. Once he started showing an interest in an item, she would use

that to work with him, plus I had given her his favorite snacks and

drinks to offer him. It took four months before he was ready to move

up to a little table and chair, but he was happy and making progress

the entire time.

Also, Sue (his ABA therapist) was observant enough to notice that

after about an hour, with breaks, he started refusing to do any more

for work with her for the rest of the day. It was her suggestion

that he have no more than 1 hour of ABA per day. At this point it is

the one therapy we are paying for out of pocket, so he only gets as

much of it as we can afford - 1 hour a week. With the attention to

his needs that Sue offers, though, it's helped alot.

I'm not trying to say that ABA is the be all and end all, or even

that it is right for all our kids, but I think that having the right

therapist can make all the difference in how well it works.

B

> I would never yell at you! It's not the ABA that I have the

problem with

> because I like the trials, the structure, and the record keeping.

It's the

> DTT which I never agreed to. I want to do the work, but I

don't want

> to force her to sit in the chair. I think that it will be easier

for

> everyone involved and quicker if we interest her in the work and

then she can

> see why she's at the table. She likes to work and she likes

people. She is

> JUST starting to sit this is a sensory issue because she has just

gotton the

> abdominal strength needed to sit in a chair. That's why I'm

against it not

> the tantrums. She is very " strong willed " and has an excellent

memory. I

> just know if we can interest her that eventually she will go to the

table and

> the chair on her own.

>

> Thanks for listening.

> G

>

May 18, 2002

,

I am sorry things are going so badly.I would just tell them to

stop now because this is not how you want things to be done. Alec

started ABA when he was 2 yrs old and we had tantrums at times but

Alec was fairly good for the most part and didnt really care what he

was made to do. ABA is very difficult for the very stubborn child and

I have 2 of them. LOL Screanming is usually part of the ABA way. I

mean to say that most children will cry and tanrum and scream and

such because it is their way of proteasting doing something they dont

want to do. Eventually she would probably stop the tantrum and

therefore learn that she is not the one in ultimate control but that

is really besides the point. If you dont like it then tell them to

stop. Even if you have to physically remove her from the situation, I

would do it. Hang in there!

Jacquie H

> I have just gotton a new behavior consultant from Wraparound

services. I was

> so happy to have someone that I didn't realize I had to have my

guard up.

> Somehow an ABA system has been put in place in my living room. I

am still

> in shock because ABA will NOT work for my daughter. We do use some

ABA

> strategies but I am very much against forcing my daughter to sit in

a chair.

> She isn't even three yet. I had a argument with the TSS that has

left a very

> bad taste in my mouth. I just cannot do this - is very smart

and if

> they would just let me do it my way she would be in the DAMN chair

within a

> month. If we do it THEIR way she's going to still be screaming

bloody murder

> in a month and STILL not sitting in the chair. I tried to show the

TSS how

> we should do it after spending half an hour calming down.

She said

> that I HAD to have her sit at the table and she called her

supervisor. Now

> after being slammed in the face, head butted, and huge hunks of

hair pulled

> out of my head obviously was not going to do this. The only

reason I

> tried was because everyone seemed to think that this was going to

work out

> great. NOT. That's why I didn't do ABA in the first place

(besides we

> couldn't afford it). This BITES and I want all these darn people

the heck

> out of my house. I hate this I really hate this. The worst part

is I can't

> even talk with my husband cause he never knows what the hell is

going on.

>

> G

>

May 18, 2002