Re: Can you have Hashi's and Graves at the same time?

June 18, 2001

Hi Jody-

They don't take tonsils and appendixes out routinely like they did before.

They recognize that tonsils have immune function. I had to fight like the

dickens to get my tonsils out (after numerous bouts of strep) when I was 16.

By that time, my tonsils were really huge, diseased and ugly. For me, it

was a cost-benefit thing. After they were removed, I no longer had constant

sore throats. Plus, my mom was pretty worried because my dad had had

rheumatic fever. And it didn't take long for him to progress from strep to

rheumatic fever.

It used to be that if they had to do abdominal surgery on a patient, they

would automatically take out the appendix. They now usually reserve that

for appendicitis. They probably used to do it so often before because it

was so serious at one time. I know my mom got appendicitis when she was 6.

It got so infected that her appendix ruptured and she ended up with

gangrene. The poor little thing had to lay in the hospital with an open

tummy for 1 or 2 months to drain her abdominal cavity. They were sure she

would die, but she pulled through.

Anyhow, medicine is changing constantly as it should. They keep finding out

more and more.

Take care,

Re: Can you have Hashi's and Graves at the same

time?

> OMG! And they just burned them out in babies...what on earth were they

> thinking?!...Never mind, it is obvious they weren't thinking period!

>

> I still can't help but wonder what they will figure out about the tonsils

> and apendix 50 years from now...or even if they would even admit it then.

> Jody

> _________________________________________________________________

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>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

June 19, 2001

Thank you Elaine. I will send you a reminder after next week as I'll be on

vacation until 7/2.

Doris

June 19, 2001

,

According to many reports, that's the case for autoimmune hyperthyoidism.

There's an initial period of hypothyroidism that often isn't noticed,

although it can be severe and last for years. that's why many GD patients

report having had eating disorders, or a lot of experience with dieting.

The initial period of hyperthyroidism in hypothyroidism is common but doesn't

occur in all patients.

June 19, 2001

It is Hashitoxicosis. That is my understanding of people with Hashis who

have hyper periods. I still have no online references for you.

June 19, 2001

Hi ,

They still routinely remove appendix here with abdominal surgery. I know 3

people personally that had them removed this past year (1 just last week).

They want to take my soon to be 5 year old grandsons tonsils out now because

of sleep apnea and very bad snoring. For him I think it needs to be done,

his apnea is bad.

In some more metro areas they may hold off, but not here...then I guess

Cleveland Clinic doesn't call town " Death Valley " for nothing.

Talk to you later,

Jody

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June 19, 2001

Hi Jody-

Hmmm. Well, if it's any comfort, our appendix is vestigial and doesn't seem

to serve any purpose that they know of. A functioning one removes poisons.

In herbivores (who eat lots of toxins), it's huge while in carnivores, it's

smaller (still eat toxins but not nearly as many). In us, it's really tiny

and we're probably evolving not to have one at all (we rarely eat poisonous

foods).

For what it's worth, there may be some immunological purpose since it's

made-up lymphoid tissue (I think). But patients that have them removed seem

to do fine immunologically-perhaps something else takes over for it if it

does have a function. Like I said it's a cost-benefit thing. Appendicitis

is pretty common and can be deadly if allowed to progress too long.

Tonsils are like a gatekeeper and screen out contagions where they first

enter the body. But my immune system seems to be working a little too well

even though I don't have them. I'm very rarely sick with contagious

diseases.

Take care,

> Hi ,

> They still routinely remove appendix here with abdominal surgery. I know

3

> people personally that had them removed this past year (1 just last week).

>

> They want to take my soon to be 5 year old grandsons tonsils out now

because

> of sleep apnea and very bad snoring. For him I think it needs to be done,

> his apnea is bad.

>

> In some more metro areas they may hold off, but not here...then I guess

> Cleveland Clinic doesn't call town " Death Valley " for nothing.

> Talk to you later,

> Jody

June 19, 2001

Hi ,

That is really interesting about the appendix! I had my tonsils removed at

age 4 and they had grown back by age 13. I use to have strep a lot but it

is so strange, with GD I hardly ever even get a cold anymore or a sore

throat or earaches...all things I use to have during my twenty's on a

regular basis.

So here is another question, since GD is an auto immune disease, and auto

immune diseases trend toward our immune systems not working so well, making

us susceptible to bugs...how we, at least you and I (others out there?)

aren't catching all these things that go around?

Talk to you later,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

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June 19, 2001

Good question about the immune system...since being on ATD's(November 2000)

I have been remarkably healthy...haven't had a single cold or anything...if

Tap is an immunosuppressant, does that mean Icould be exposed to these

virus's or bacteria and just not react to them? Not sure how this all works.

Re: Can you have Hashi's and Graves at the same

time?

> Hi ,

> That is really interesting about the appendix! I had my tonsils removed

at

> age 4 and they had grown back by age 13. I use to have strep a lot but it

> is so strange, with GD I hardly ever even get a cold anymore or a sore

> throat or earaches...all things I use to have during my twenty's on a

> regular basis.

>

> So here is another question, since GD is an auto immune disease, and auto

> immune diseases trend toward our immune systems not working so well,

making

> us susceptible to bugs...how we, at least you and I (others out there?)

> aren't catching all these things that go around?

> Talk to you later,

> Jody

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

June 19, 2001

Hi Jody-

I think it's just the opposite. I think those of us with autoimmune disease

have an overly zealous immune system. So eager to attack anything foreign

(which is what it was designed to do) that it sometimes " forgets " to

differentiate between self-antigen and foreign-antigen. Probably because at

one time we had a foreign antigen that had an epitope (the part of the

antigen that our immune system would recognize) that are very similar or the

same as some of our own.

I have a couple of friends with autoimmune disease (lupus) and they're never

sick with contagious diseases either. My friends with Hashimoto's don't get

sick as long as they're not hypothyroid.

I don't think it's that our immune systems don't work it's just that they

make mistakes.

Take care,

> Hi ,

> That is really interesting about the appendix! I had my tonsils removed

at

> age 4 and they had grown back by age 13. I use to have strep a lot but it

> is so strange, with GD I hardly ever even get a cold anymore or a sore

> throat or earaches...all things I use to have during my twenty's on a

> regular basis.

>

> So here is another question, since GD is an auto immune disease, and auto

> immune diseases trend toward our immune systems not working so well,

making

> us susceptible to bugs...how we, at least you and I (others out there?)

> aren't catching all these things that go around?

> Talk to you later,

> Jody

June 20, 2001

elaine wrote:

> ,

> According to many reports, that's the case for autoimmune

hyperthyoidism.

> There's an initial period of hypothyroidism that often isn't

noticed,

> although it can be severe and last for years. that's why many GD

patients

> report having had eating disorders, or a lot of experience with

dieting.

>

> The initial period of hyperthyroidism in hypothyroidism is common

but doesn't

> occur in all patients.

This info helps because I was wondering if my overwieght daughter

could have Graves', as you know. I have experienced GD as very

slimming. Never an ounce to spare. She has so many symptoms but hyper

metabolism has never been one of them. She is very heavy and it is an

effort to remain active for her. Interesting that extra weight as

well as weight loss fits the diagnosis. At 31 she has indeed had

excess weight for 10 years at least. Sometimes more sometimes less.

June 20, 2001

, with GD I hardly ever even get a cold anymore or a sore

> throat or earaches...all things I use to have during my twenty's on

a

> regular basis.

>

you and I (others out there?)

> aren't catching all these things that go around?

> Talk to you later,

> Jody

Jody,

I think I am fitting in here. I had repeated occurences of

bronchitis in my 20s. I coughed so much I got an abdominal hernia.

Every time I got a cold, it turned into bronchitis. And I kept

catching colds.

I have had colds but no bronchitis for 2 decades. I often do not

come down with what I am exposed to, although I do sometimes. Hmm..

\

June 20, 2001

Dear Jody and ,

I have been wondering that too - ever since I have been ill with this, I

have hardly had a cold or a flu at all. It doesn't make sense to me - unless

we have OVERACITVE IMMUNE systems, as well as overactive AUTOimmune systems?

AT the very beginnning of my experience, I had a spell of about four months

where I got a new cold every two weeks - the colds would turn into flu and

put me in bed for two or three days and then I would get better for about a

week before I caught the next one. Since then (March to May of 1999), I

have hardly had any bugs at all.

Partly I wonder if this is because I am taking it so easy looking after

myself due to Graves' and in the worst times with hyper, I was on the sofa

anyway!Cheers

DAWN ROSE

>

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: graves_support

>Subject: Re: Can you have Hashi's and Graves at the same

>time?

>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:19:50 -0400

>

>Hi ,

>That is really interesting about the appendix! I had my tonsils removed at

>age 4 and they had grown back by age 13. I use to have strep a lot but it

>is so strange, with GD I hardly ever even get a cold anymore or a sore

>throat or earaches...all things I use to have during my twenty's on a

>regular basis.

>

>So here is another question, since GD is an auto immune disease, and auto

>immune diseases trend toward our immune systems not working so well, making

>us susceptible to bugs...how we, at least you and I (others out there?)

>aren't catching all these things that go around?

>Talk to you later,

>Jody

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

>

June 20, 2001

Hi ,

Did you ever think your daughter could be hypothyroid? She could have OK

blood levels but have thyroid antibodies that prevent her cell receptors from

benefiting from this hormone? And the dying thyroid cells could release

enough hormone to give her the other symptoms you mention. This is a form of

" silent hyperthyroidism, " or spontaneously recurring hyperthyroidism. Maybe

you could have her ask her doc for the test for thyroglobulin antibodies.

I have the same problem in that a few of my relatives have all the symptoms

of hypoT, but their thyroid levels are normal. They never have had thyroid

antibody tests, but they're overweight, on cholesterol lowering meds, and

have been treated or are being treated for sleep apnea. In thryoid textbooks,

there are always pictures of people with proptosis and hypothyroidism that

look like they belong in my family.

June 20, 2001

Hi Deb,

Don't feel dumb! The guy was a salesman to make HIS money! You definately

should feel cheated! Keep looking for the original policy and raise a

stink. Ohio should also have a board to report insurance fraud to...do it!

Maybe you can get some of your money back or they may cover your labs that

have already been done.

Take care,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

June 20, 2001

Hi everyone,

I had my tonsils removed when I was 13 after one round of throat infection,

my tonsils grew back by the time I was 19. After having tonsils removed I

was always getting sore throats, sinus infections (they were my big thing)

and they would turn into bronchitis.

About being sick after GD, well haven't been sick very often since changing

from the first quack I went to. When I was pregnant and needed those

medical records he wouldn't release them. So my husband dug through old

receipts from our business and since we deducted medical expenses we had my

doctor receipts. Now this first quack I went to dispensed medication from

his medical center where he was the only doctor. In the state of PA. that

was legal. Laying in bed during that time my husband and I went through

every receipt wrote down every medication he gave me in a 5 yr. period.

During that time we found an 18 month period right before I was diagnosed

with GD that he had me on antibiotics. I was so sick at that time I really

believe I had antibiotic induced colitis. Everytime I coughed he would give

me an antibiotic. He told me something was wrong with my immune system.

LOL! yeah he messed it up with all the antibiotics. In 1997 when I had

henry was the first winter I wasn't sick all winter for 3 or 4 yrs. I

even had bronchitis when I was pregnant. My new doctor I started going to

right before I was pregnant told my husband he was worried that if I got one

of those super infections my immune system was so low that he didn't think I

would be able to fight it. I am the opposite from the rest of you, but I

had help from that quack doctor and all his antibiotics.

On another note about health insurance. We went with that new company last

year when Chuck had to change jobs. I waited 7-1/2 months to go to my

doctor visit because it wasn't covered for 6 months and didn't want to rush

it. Found out they are a surgical/medical policy. And of course I can't

find the application we filled out. Anyways they will not cover my lab

tests. I just received a bill from my Feb. lab tests that they aren't

covered. We feel we were ripped off, the only thing the man told us that

sold us the policy was that doctor visits weren't covered, NEVER did he tell

us we were buying a surgical/medical policy. He had papers he went over

with everything, left us a rough draft and took those papers when he left.

I didn't think nothing of it then. Oh well, you live and learn. So when I

go for lab tests, there's no way I can do all of them everytime. I even

held off my pap test and mammogram and when Chuck gets laid off this winter

was going to have the bone scan, pap test, mammogram and the heart

ultrasound done (darn my mind quit working can't think of what they call the

heart ultrasound). Here I didn't want to do everything when we first took

out the policy. LOL! I wasn't covered anyhow. Sorry just wanted to vent a

little bit, makes you feel cheated and dumb.

Debbie R.

June 21, 2001

Ah Elaine,

What a great gal you are! My family doesn't look that beautiful,

either...

Yes, as a matter of fact i posted my thoughts about my daughter

being hypo somewhere yesterday. I have a question. Should I be mad at

her for rarely helping in the kitchen or with housework? I feel like

she is taking advantge of me but maybe she really can't help it...

Thanks for the advice on the test. I will make a note of it in

case we ever get to the place where her doctor will test her. I am

hoping to get her in to see Greenspan. He might be interested in a

mother-daughter case. Not exactly rare, I am sure.

> Hi ,

> Did you ever think your daughter could be hypothyroid? She could

have OK

> blood levels but have thyroid antibodies that prevent her cell

receptors from

> benefiting from this hormone? And the dying thyroid cells could

release

> enough hormone to give her the other symptoms you mention. This is

a form of

> " silent hyperthyroidism, " or spontaneously recurring

hyperthyroidism. Maybe

> you could have her ask her doc for the test for thyroglobulin

antibodies.

>

> I have the same problem in that a few of my relatives have all the

symptoms

> of hypoT, but their thyroid levels are normal. They never have had

thyroid

> antibody tests, but they're overweight, on cholesterol lowering

meds, and

> have been treated or are being treated for sleep apnea. In thryoid

textbooks,

> there are always pictures of people with proptosis and

hypothyroidism that

> look like they belong in my family.

June 21, 2001

Dear Debbie

Ventilation is good for the soul - so go for it girl!!!!

Can you get copies of the paperwork that *saleman* took with him? Is it possible

to transfer the plan to one more

suitable for your needs? I must say the system in the USA sounds like a

minefield.

Cheers

Caroline

Riley wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> I had my tonsils removed when I was 13 after one round of throat infection,

> my tonsils grew back by the time I was 19. After having tonsils removed I

> was always getting sore throats, sinus infections (they were my big thing)

> and they would turn into bronchitis.

>

> About being sick after GD, well haven't been sick very often since changing

> from the first quack I went to. When I was pregnant and needed those

> medical records he wouldn't release them. So my husband dug through old

> receipts from our business and since we deducted medical expenses we had my

> doctor receipts. Now this first quack I went to dispensed medication from

> his medical center where he was the only doctor. In the state of PA. that

> was legal. Laying in bed during that time my husband and I went through

> every receipt wrote down every medication he gave me in a 5 yr. period.

> During that time we found an 18 month period right before I was diagnosed

> with GD that he had me on antibiotics. I was so sick at that time I really

> believe I had antibiotic induced colitis. Everytime I coughed he would give

> me an antibiotic. He told me something was wrong with my immune system.

> LOL! yeah he messed it up with all the antibiotics. In 1997 when I had

> henry was the first winter I wasn't sick all winter for 3 or 4 yrs. I

> even had bronchitis when I was pregnant. My new doctor I started going to

> right before I was pregnant told my husband he was worried that if I got one

> of those super infections my immune system was so low that he didn't think I

> would be able to fight it. I am the opposite from the rest of you, but I

> had help from that quack doctor and all his antibiotics.

>

> On another note about health insurance. We went with that new company last

> year when Chuck had to change jobs. I waited 7-1/2 months to go to my

> doctor visit because it wasn't covered for 6 months and didn't want to rush

> it. Found out they are a surgical/medical policy. And of course I can't

> find the application we filled out. Anyways they will not cover my lab

> tests. I just received a bill from my Feb. lab tests that they aren't

> covered. We feel we were ripped off, the only thing the man told us that

> sold us the policy was that doctor visits weren't covered, NEVER did he tell

> us we were buying a surgical/medical policy. He had papers he went over

> with everything, left us a rough draft and took those papers when he left.

> I didn't think nothing of it then. Oh well, you live and learn. So when I

> go for lab tests, there's no way I can do all of them everytime. I even

> held off my pap test and mammogram and when Chuck gets laid off this winter

> was going to have the bone scan, pap test, mammogram and the heart

> ultrasound done (darn my mind quit working can't think of what they call the

> heart ultrasound). Here I didn't want to do everything when we first took

> out the policy. LOL! I wasn't covered anyhow. Sorry just wanted to vent a

> little bit, makes you feel cheated and dumb.

>

> Debbie R.

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

June 21, 2001