Re: Can you have Hashi's and Graves at the same time?

[Guest guest]

Hi Janis,

The disorder they're referring to is Hashitoxicosis. I just wrote an article

on it the other day that'll be on suite 101 next Friday, and I added a page

about it on my web site recently.

The disorder is actually Hypothyroidism with recurrent symptoms of

hyperthyroidism. It's fairly common in the early stages of hypothyroidism.

It's caused by released thyroid hormone from dying thyroid follicular cells

and from the stimulating TSH receptor antibodies that people with this

disorder have.

After RAI, as thyroid cells are destroyed and hypothyroidism sets in, this

condition may occur and last for up to a year or so.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply Elaine! I've had Graves diagnosed in '95 and I

learn something new everyday!

I read about that just this week and wondered if that was the true

name of what the poster described.

Thanks again!

Looking forward to the article!

[Guest guest]

Hi Janis,

There are 2/3 people in this group that have both Hashi's and GD. Use the

search and type in hashimotos (sp?) I know there are sevral posts on that.

Some are wondering if they are not the same disease, just GD is the hyper

state of it. Food for thought.

Take care,

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks. The medical literature reports Hashi as lasting " usually " a year and

only in the early stages of hypoT, but then again some references don't

recognize that it even exists as a separate disorder. But I do remember

you're mentioning quite a few cases of it being diagnosed on your team. I

wonder if it's diagnosed more in Canada.

[Guest guest]

My Dearest Daisy, God knows I hate to correct you but I know that one

can have Hashitoxicosis for longer than a year or so.

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

Diagnosed more in Canada...or MISdiagnosed more in the states?

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Hi Gang maybe it is just diagnosed more in this area. Whatever the case

I think that most

endos think that RAI is an excellent treatment option for all thyroid

problems. At some point you have to start admiring these guys & girls

for standing their ground in the face of all the evidence. I sometimes

wonder why the thyroid is not burnt out routinely at birth.

[Guest guest]

> Diagnosed more in Canada...or MISdiagnosed more in the states?

> Jody

Really! :{

[Guest guest]

I shall remember that phrase

" I sometimes wonder why the thyroid is not burnt out routinely at birth.

"

FOR MY next " run in " with anyone pushing RAI, made me guffaw with a giggle

you did!

DAWN ROSE

>

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: graves_support

>Subject: Re: Can you have Hashi's and Graves at the same

>time?

>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 23:27:17 -0600

>

>Hi Gang maybe it is just diagnosed more in this area. Whatever the case

>I think that most

>endos think that RAI is an excellent treatment option for all thyroid

>problems. At some point you have to start admiring these guys & girls

>for standing their ground in the face of all the evidence.

> >-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Probably misdiagnosed here a lot.

[Guest guest]

What's sad is the fact that they used to routinely burn out the thymus in

newborns for no logical reason. Many people are suffering from those effects.

[Guest guest]

Careful about *wondering* , someone may take that thought and run with

it! An old family friend had lost a finger as a child, when I was a child I

*wondered* what that would be like...I found out...now I am very very

careful in my wonderings

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Elaine,

What exactly does the thymus do?

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Elaine,

My sister is one of those that had her thymus radiated as a child!! I've

just gotten her to go get a full thyroid panel done. She has been on

Synthroid for decades and only had a TSH test annually as follow up.

Any advice for her on what she should have checked? I'm worried for her due

to all of the thyroid cancer stuff I've read about those with childhood

radiation. She (my sister) was never told anything...just to take the

Synthroid. She is severely depressed and has recently gained a fair amount

of weight.

Doris

[Guest guest]

I wonder why they chose the thymus? I have another interesting little

fact for you.

Until 1955 it was agreed that human beings had 24 pairs of chromosomes.

Everyone knew that was right because in 1921 a Texan named Theophilus

Painter had sliced thin sections off the testicles of two black men and

one white man castrated for insanity and " self -abuse " fixed the slices

in chemical and examined them under a microscope. Painter tried to count

the tangled mass of unpaired chromosomes and arrived at the figure of

24.

For thirty years nobody disputed this " fact " One Group of scientistis

abandoned their experiments on the human liver cells because they could

only find 23 pairs. Another researcher invented a method of separating

the chromosomes but he still thought he saw 24. In the end, in 1955 it

was Tjiio and Levan who plainly saw only 23. They even went back and

counted 23 in published photographs. Nevertheless we are the only apes

who have only 23. The rest have 24. I find it pretty ironic when the

medical establishment talks about scientific method and proof. I guess

when one considers some of their experiments RAI must seems pretty

benign.

[Guest guest]

I have no oneline sources for the combination of Hashis and Graves but

I don't think such a condition exist. It is rather Hashis in its two

forms. Hyper and Hypo.

[Guest guest]

> I have no oneline sources for the combination of Hashis and Graves

but

> I don't think such a condition exist. It is rather Hashis in its two

> forms. Hyper and Hypo.

So in Hashi's there is an initial peroid of hyper and then the hypo

sets in? And in Graves' there is an initial peroid of hypo and then

hyper happens?

[Guest guest]

It's an immune system organ. Your T lymphocytes originate in the bone marrow

but travel to the thymus to mature. That's where they learn their specific

functions, like what antigens to attack. Without a thymus, one is susceptible

to infections and autoimmune diseases.

[Guest guest]

Hi Doris,

She should also have all the thyroid antibody tests done, especially

thyroglobulin and TPO antibodies, and TBII. It's likely that the antibodies

are preventing her cells from reacting with the thyroid hormone in her blood.

Then, higher doses of hormone are needed. Dr. Vliet mentions this

in her book, Screaming to be Heard.....What your Doctors don't tell you about

hormones or something similar. I'm busy this week but remind me after the

next weekend and I'll find you more info about the thymus.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Joining the graves/hashi debate, I was told that I have both. When I had

active Graves disease, I had high antibody counts for both stimulating

antibodies (hyper) and blocking or binding (can't remember which but it

indicated Hashimotos). The stimulating antibodies were higher than the

blocking/binding but both were elevated above the normal range, making the

endocrinologist say that I had both illnesses.

However, when I had a consult at the Mayo clinic the endocrinologist I saw

there told me that I would be well off to abandon any sense of a definitive

disease category for my particular thyroid. He said that many people have

move between both hypo and hyper and that the distinctions between the

hashitox, hashis, graves etc may some day disappear in medical journals as

science begins to categorize a more general autoimmune thyroid disease with

different types of symptoms. He said that moving between the two extremes

was fairly common and that sometimes the antibody count wasn't a great

indicator of what was going on. In sum, his sense was that there is much,

much more to discover about autoimmunity and the thyroid.

Don't know if he's on target, just thought I'd toss in what I remember about

our conversation. . . B

Re: Re: Can you have Hashi's and Graves at the

same time?

> I really don't know about Graves and an initial period of hypo but I

> know Hashis is primairily hypo with periods of hyperactivity. I have

> several friends with Hashis. For they most part you would never know

> that they were hypo. They don't seem to have the classic symtoms. It is

> strange. They seem to react more when their hyper stage kicks in.

> One of them who had only a T4 of 19 which is still in the normal range

> was a wild women. She was buzzing all over the place. She even got a

> speeding ticket. She said that she didn't know how I could stand such

> activity. When my T 4 is 19 I feel like I'm half dead. So I think that

> it is the activity of the antibodies that makes the difference.

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

After reading your post I've tried to find a source online saying

with Hashi's you can have periods of hypo then hyper...haven't found

any mention of hyper unless it's the disease Hashitoxicosis. Can you

elablorate on sources?? Thanks

> I really don't know about Graves and an initial period of hypo but I

> know Hashis is primairily hypo with periods of hyperactivity. I have

> several friends with Hashis. For they most part you would never know

> that they were hypo. They don't seem to have the classic symtoms.

It is

> strange. They seem to react more when their hyper stage kicks in.

> One of them who had only a T4 of 19 which is still in the normal

range

> was a wild women. She was buzzing all over the place. She even got a

> speeding ticket. She said that she didn't know how I could stand

such

> activity. When my T 4 is 19 I feel like I'm half dead. So I think

that

> it is the activity of the antibodies that makes the difference.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/18/01 8:31:18 PM Central Daylight Time,

kfroilan@... writes:

> So in Hashi's there is an initial peroid of hyper and then the hypo

> sets in? And in Graves' there is an initial peroid of hypo and then

> hyper happens?

>

Also, can the initial hyper of Hashi's show anitbodies of Graves? thanks Kim

[Guest guest]

I really don't know about Graves and an initial period of hypo but I

know Hashis is primairily hypo with periods of hyperactivity. I have

several friends with Hashis. For they most part you would never know

that they were hypo. They don't seem to have the classic symtoms. It is

strange. They seem to react more when their hyper stage kicks in.

One of them who had only a T4 of 19 which is still in the normal range

was a wild women. She was buzzing all over the place. She even got a

speeding ticket. She said that she didn't know how I could stand such

activity. When my T 4 is 19 I feel like I'm half dead. So I think that

it is the activity of the antibodies that makes the difference.

[Guest guest]

Considering so much is up in the air about how to really ( stress

REALLY) treat Graves and not just the symptoms he sounds like a very

wise man!

Janis

> Hi all,

>

> Joining the graves/hashi debate, I was told that I have both. When

I had

> active Graves disease, I had high antibody counts for both

stimulating

> antibodies (hyper) and blocking or binding (can't remember which

but it

> indicated Hashimotos). The stimulating antibodies were higher than

the

> blocking/binding but both were elevated above the normal range,

making the

> endocrinologist say that I had both illnesses.

>

> However, when I had a consult at the Mayo clinic the

endocrinologist I saw

> there told me that I would be well off to abandon any sense of a

definitive

> disease category for my particular thyroid. He said that many

people have

> move between both hypo and hyper and that the distinctions between

the

> hashitox, hashis, graves etc may some day disappear in medical

journals as

> science begins to categorize a more general autoimmune thyroid

disease with

> different types of symptoms. He said that moving between the two

extremes

> was fairly common and that sometimes the antibody count wasn't a

great

> indicator of what was going on. In sum, his sense was that there

is much,

> much more to discover about autoimmunity and the thyroid.

>

> Don't know if he's on target, just thought I'd toss in what I

remember about

> our conversation. . . B

[Guest guest]

OMG! And they just burned them out in babies...what on earth were they

thinking?!...Never mind, it is obvious they weren't thinking period!

I still can't help but wonder what they will figure out about the tonsils

and apendix 50 years from now...or even if they would even admit it then.

Jody

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