Re: Day 3 of Bert's Hospital Stay

[Guest guest]

Monika,

Thanks for the update. You and Bert are in my prayers.

I am praying for his emotional state also. Ron took a spell like that for 2 mos,

and it was terrible. But now he has pulled himself out of it for now. I am also

praying the fire stays away from you.

take care,

Tammy

Day 3 of Bert's Hospital Stay

Tonights latest news flash on Bert. On the charts and medically, he

is doing better(the GAST suspects colitis but couldn't say for sure

because it would require a colonoscopy and Bert is in no condition to

have one right now), but it's his emotional state that I am worried

about. He is just not rallying round. Does not want to eat...no

appetite, but I think that is in part still due to the fact that he

has a lot of pain and is still on Demerol...not as often, but on

Demerol nevertheless. The doctor told him today perhaps it would be

a good thing for him to start moving around. All he wants to do is

just lie there in bed. This is so unlike him. I can only think that

he must have gone through a tremendous amount of pain, and to a

certain extent probably still is, with his abdomen remaining

extremely tender, the he is just drained. He is allowed to eat and

he can drink, but has ate nothing...he does drink all the time

though, even if it's only water. We had more " words " today, to the

point where he actually yelled at me that he doesn't have to listen

to all of this and why don't I just go home. I promptly responded

that I'll take his anger over self pity any day...at least it was

some kind of response. I felt so terrible...both for him and

how " bitchy " I was, but I just couldn't help myself. I need

responses and if anger is what will take his mind off his condition,

if but for a brief moment, then God will forgive my attitude because

I truly, from the bottom of my heart, mean only the best and am

absolutely worried sick about him. The hiccups are driving him nuts,

although the doctor did prescribe something for them today...forgot

exactly what it was. It was recommended to me last night on this

board...the prescription, that is, and forgive me, again I can't

remember who it was who did so, but it had already been prescribed

when I go there. ly, it doesn't help a whole lot at this

point. Overnight, the hiccups were so bad that he actually almost

choked (couldn't get his air back) twice and had to vomit a couple of

times...from hiccup spasms...honestly. Today, they were just there

again...constantly. It's because of all the air trapped in his

bowls. Walking would be good, but he feels too pooped to get up and

do it and sitting up causes extreme discomfort. I just don't know.

One day at a time, I guess.

I'll " talk " to ya'll tomorrow....good Lord willing, creek don't rise,

and poopoo don't hit the fan along the way :-).....and providing

there is still a Southern California to write from. We are burning

everywhere and it is truly awful. Fortunately, we live about 7 miles

away from one of the fires....yesterday, it was 10 miles away and

yes, we do live in a rolling foothill area that is now brush. But

the fortunately, there is a lot of brush clearence as well as being

fairly well developed. We can only hope and pray for the best.

Everyone, please take care.

Monika

[Guest guest]

Hi Monika

I am so sorry to hear how rough a time Bert is having. For what it

is worth, I got pretty nauseous when I was on narcotic pain

medication this spring. Narcotics can also cause constipation,

although, since I have an ileostomy, at least I did not get this

problem.

Narcotics can do funny things to some people. When I was in the

hospital, a guy across the hall who had just had colon surgery was

yelling at everyone and complaining about everything. I was

wondering about what kind of person he was to be SO upset at

everything, only to meet a very nice man in the hall a day or two

later when his medication had been changed.

Hang in there. Here is hoping and praying things are better for both

of you tomorrow.

Kris

> Tonights latest news flash on Bert. On the charts and medically,

he

> is doing better(the GAST suspects colitis but couldn't say for sure

> because it would require a colonoscopy and Bert is in no condition

to

> have one right now), but it's his emotional state that I am worried

> about. He is just not rallying round. Does not want to eat...no

> appetite, but I think that is in part still due to the fact that he

> has a lot of pain and is still on Demerol...not as often, but on

> Demerol nevertheless. The doctor told him today perhaps it would

be

> a good thing for him to start moving around. All he wants to do is

> just lie there in bed. This is so unlike him. I can only think

that

> he must have gone through a tremendous amount of pain, and to a

> certain extent probably still is, with his abdomen remaining

> extremely tender, the he is just drained. He is allowed to eat and

> he can drink, but has ate nothing...he does drink all the time

> though, even if it's only water. We had more " words " today, to the

> point where he actually yelled at me that he doesn't have to listen

> to all of this and why don't I just go home. I promptly responded

> that I'll take his anger over self pity any day...at least it was

> some kind of response. I felt so terrible...both for him and

> how " bitchy " I was, but I just couldn't help myself. I need

> responses and if anger is what will take his mind off his

condition,

> if but for a brief moment, then God will forgive my attitude

because

> I truly, from the bottom of my heart, mean only the best and am

> absolutely worried sick about him. The hiccups are driving him

nuts,

> although the doctor did prescribe something for them today...forgot

> exactly what it was. It was recommended to me last night on this

> board...the prescription, that is, and forgive me, again I can't

> remember who it was who did so, but it had already been prescribed

> when I go there. ly, it doesn't help a whole lot at this

> point. Overnight, the hiccups were so bad that he actually almost

> choked (couldn't get his air back) twice and had to vomit a couple

of

> times...from hiccup spasms...honestly. Today, they were just there

> again...constantly. It's because of all the air trapped in his

> bowls. Walking would be good, but he feels too pooped to get up

and

> do it and sitting up causes extreme discomfort. I just don't

know.

> One day at a time, I guess.

>

> I'll " talk " to ya'll tomorrow....good Lord willing, creek don't

rise,

> and poopoo don't hit the fan along the way :-).....and providing

> there is still a Southern California to write from. We are burning

> everywhere and it is truly awful. Fortunately, we live about 7

miles

> away from one of the fires....yesterday, it was 10 miles away and

> yes, we do live in a rolling foothill area that is now brush. But

> the fortunately, there is a lot of brush clearence as well as being

> fairly well developed. We can only hope and pray for the best.

>

> Everyone, please take care.

>

> Monika

>

> Monika

[Guest guest]

Hi Monika,

Ignore my other post I'm trying to get caught up and I responded to one of

your earlier posts before I saw this one. I don't know what the other poster

suggested for hiccups (I'll probably run across that post in a bit but my

Dad has had hiccups after every surgery and the only thing that helped was

Thorazine. It did take a bit to help though. Take care.

Kathy L.

Day 3 of Bert's Hospital Stay

Tonights latest news flash on Bert. On the charts and medically, he

is doing better(the GAST suspects colitis but couldn't say for sure

because it would require a colonoscopy and Bert is in no condition to

have one right now), but it's his emotional state that I am worried

about. He is just not rallying round. Does not want to eat...no

appetite, but I think that is in part still due to the fact that he

has a lot of pain and is still on Demerol...not as often, but on

Demerol nevertheless. The doctor told him today perhaps it would be

a good thing for him to start moving around. All he wants to do is

just lie there in bed. This is so unlike him. I can only think that

he must have gone through a tremendous amount of pain, and to a

certain extent probably still is, with his abdomen remaining

extremely tender, the he is just drained. He is allowed to eat and

he can drink, but has ate nothing...he does drink all the time

though, even if it's only water. We had more " words " today, to the

point where he actually yelled at me that he doesn't have to listen

to all of this and why don't I just go home. I promptly responded

that I'll take his anger over self pity any day...at least it was

some kind of response. I felt so terrible...both for him and

how " bitchy " I was, but I just couldn't help myself. I need

responses and if anger is what will take his mind off his condition,

if but for a brief moment, then God will forgive my attitude because

I truly, from the bottom of my heart, mean only the best and am

absolutely worried sick about him. The hiccups are driving him nuts,

although the doctor did prescribe something for them today...forgot

exactly what it was. It was recommended to me last night on this

board...the prescription, that is, and forgive me, again I can't

remember who it was who did so, but it had already been prescribed

when I go there. ly, it doesn't help a whole lot at this

point. Overnight, the hiccups were so bad that he actually almost

choked (couldn't get his air back) twice and had to vomit a couple of

times...from hiccup spasms...honestly. Today, they were just there

again...constantly. It's because of all the air trapped in his

bowls. Walking would be good, but he feels too pooped to get up and

do it and sitting up causes extreme discomfort. I just don't know.

One day at a time, I guess.

I'll " talk " to ya'll tomorrow....good Lord willing, creek don't rise,

and poopoo don't hit the fan along the way :-).....and providing

there is still a Southern California to write from. We are burning

everywhere and it is truly awful. Fortunately, we live about 7 miles

away from one of the fires....yesterday, it was 10 miles away and

yes, we do live in a rolling foothill area that is now brush. But

the fortunately, there is a lot of brush clearence as well as being

fairly well developed. We can only hope and pray for the best.

Everyone, please take care.

Monika

[Guest guest]

How about massage. Registered therapists sometimes can releive pain and

there

is a gel they use. We had this service three times abot 25 minutes each time

and

it worked well. Also we found a support group with guys only and they get

along

well. Just a thought,and don't feel guilty,you did evoke a response.Take care

of

yoursel so you can take care of him. Nicks wife Jane M

[Guest guest]

Someone wrote about tapes. I listen to music and it helps me focus,depends on

my mood.wild when I have pain,quiet when I have a headache and soft and

comforting when I have nausea. My wife made a giner tea using real freh giner

and a

friend has

sent us several herbal teas, They have quited my stomach and clamed me. Just

a thought. Nick (PS Sometimes I just want to be alone,even though I ove my

family

and my kids and grandkids an neighbors,I just need space to think) Nick

[Guest guest]

Monika,

I seldom post here because since my husband Butch's cancer came back

in June, (original re-sect 9/1999) we have been nonstop in and out of

the hospital, and I just don't know enough to help anyone. But I read

your messages every morning with my first cup of coffee. And I have

become an expert on hiccups.

After Butch's original surgery in '99, they found no node involvement

and 12 " of clean margins on either side of the resect. Because he had

been so sick before the surgery and because he had his own business,

he elected NOT to have chemo. I went along with his decision - in

hindsight, the worst thing we could have done. While we both accept

responsibility for this decision, his surgeon never tried to

discourage us.

He has lost 100 pounds, is severely jaundiced, and now has countless

mets to the liver and lungs. We have a CT on Monday to see if it's

spread to the bones. He has started with bad pain in his lower back

that spreads to the back of his legs, so I'm sure it has. His CEA is

up and his CP19 doubled almost overnight. He had 4 weeks of Camptosar

and 4 weeks of Xeloda. He is now getting ready to go back on

Camptosar but that's another story.

About your husband's hiccups. Butch's cancer recurrence was

discovered when he had a chest xray before he was to have a TURP, a

prostate roto-rooter procedure. He is an ex Marine, big, strong,

silent type who never complains. After the TURP, he had some nausea

from the anethestic and a nurse put in a naso-gastric tube. " Jammed

it in " is how he describes it. From that moment on, he had more than

6 weeks of constant, endless hiccups and " esophegeal spasms " that

almost always ended in vomiting. He was put on compazine 5mg,

Thorazine 10 mg, and Carafate, none of which helped. Tests showed

nothing. But they never did an endoscopy.

He became paranoid and frightened about food, vomiting, the hospital,

even me if I started to talk about it. In this long ordeal, that was

the worst time of all. There was nothing anyone could do to help him.

I felt helpless and useless. Then I remembered how much meditation

used to help me years ago and I bought a book " Staying Well with

Guided Imagery " by Belleruth Naparstek and started reading him

meditations. When one seemed to help, I found some tapes by the

author on eBay and Amazon.com. He started using one in particular

whenever he felt the hiccups starting and very soon, in only a few

days, he learned to calm himself, control his breathing, and get rid

of many, if not most, of the hiccups. I could tell if he had listened

to the tape by the look in his eyes.

Looking back on it, I think that the tape kept him sane while his

body recovered from whatever had happened. (He is sleeping and the

tape he always used is in his bedside table. As soon as he wakes up,

I will find out the title and email you.) Although he used only one,

this is a series of tapes that I learned about at Hoag Cancer Center

in Newport Beach where his onc is. There are tapes on Fighting

Cancer, Chemotherapy, etc.

Along with the tape, his dr. started him on Protonix over a month

ago. He now takes one Protonix first thing in the morning. It is a

very expensive relatively new drug that took a while to get approval

for from our insurance co. " PROTONIX is indicated for the treatment

and maintenance of healing of erosive esophagitis with associated

GERD symptoms.* Our doctor gave us a month's supply of samples while

we waited for the approval. Butch has had no hiccups, no spasms, and

no side effects from the drug.

I, too, am in southern CA, in Capistrano Beach, so we are halfway

between the LA and the San Diego fires.

Believe me, I know what you are going through and I hope there is

some information in what I've said that you can use.

Onward, Carol

> Tonights latest news flash on Bert. On the charts and medically,

he

> is doing better(the GAST suspects colitis but couldn't say for sure

> because it would require a colonoscopy and Bert is in no condition

to

> have one right now), but it's his emotional state that I am worried

> about. He is just not rallying round. Does not want to eat...no

> appetite, but I think that is in part still due to the fact that he

> has a lot of pain and is still on Demerol...not as often, but on

> Demerol nevertheless. The doctor told him today perhaps it would

be

> a good thing for him to start moving around. All he wants to do is

> just lie there in bed. This is so unlike him. I can only think

that

> he must have gone through a tremendous amount of pain, and to a

> certain extent probably still is, with his abdomen remaining

> extremely tender, the he is just drained. He is allowed to eat and

> he can drink, but has ate nothing...he does drink all the time

> though, even if it's only water. We had more " words " today, to the

> point where he actually yelled at me that he doesn't have to listen

> to all of this and why don't I just go home. I promptly responded

> that I'll take his anger over self pity any day...at least it was

> some kind of response. I felt so terrible...both for him and

> how " bitchy " I was, but I just couldn't help myself. I need

> responses and if anger is what will take his mind off his

condition,

> if but for a brief moment, then God will forgive my attitude

because

> I truly, from the bottom of my heart, mean only the best and am

> absolutely worried sick about him. The hiccups are driving him

nuts,

> although the doctor did prescribe something for them today...forgot

> exactly what it was. It was recommended to me last night on this

> board...the prescription, that is, and forgive me, again I can't

> remember who it was who did so, but it had already been prescribed

> when I go there. ly, it doesn't help a whole lot at this

> point. Overnight, the hiccups were so bad that he actually almost

> choked (couldn't get his air back) twice and had to vomit a couple

of

> times...from hiccup spasms...honestly. Today, they were just there

> again...constantly. It's because of all the air trapped in his

> bowls. Walking would be good, but he feels too pooped to get up

and

> do it and sitting up causes extreme discomfort. I just don't

know.

> One day at a time, I guess.

>

> I'll " talk " to ya'll tomorrow....good Lord willing, creek don't

rise,

> and poopoo don't hit the fan along the way :-).....and providing

> there is still a Southern California to write from. We are burning

> everywhere and it is truly awful. Fortunately, we live about 7

miles

> away from one of the fires....yesterday, it was 10 miles away and

> yes, we do live in a rolling foothill area that is now brush. But

> the fortunately, there is a lot of brush clearence as well as being

> fairly well developed. We can only hope and pray for the best.

>

> Everyone, please take care.

>

> Monika

>

> Monika

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/29/03 8:36:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, moomaus@...

writes:

> I'll " talk " to ya'll tomorrow....good Lord willing, creek don't rise, and

> poopoo don't hit the fan along the way :-).....and providing there is still a

> Southern California to write from. We are burning everywhere and it is truly

> awful. Fortunately, we live about 7 miles away from one of the

> fires....yesterday, it was 10 miles away and yes, we do live in a rolling

foothill area

> that is now brush. But the fortunately, there is a lot of brush clearence as

> well as being fairly well developed. We can only hope and pray for the best.

>

> Everyone, please take care.

>

> Monika

Monika, bless your heart, you have enough to deal with without having this to

worry about on top of it. I don't know why it is that the old adage seems

true, that sometimes when it rains, it pours.

I'm praying the fires will abate soon (and stay away from your home) and that

things will take a turn for the better for Bert.

Terry in GA