Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 I have a question in this very interesting discussion going on, which does provide a lot of food for thought so to speak. What exactly defines an autoimmune disease? What exactly defines a Retro Virus? Thanks for any answers. Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi Jody- These from Stedman's medical dictionary. Autoimmunity - To denote the condition in which one's own tissues are subject to deleterious effects of the immunological system. Retrovirus - Any of the family Retroviridae; characterized by the presence of reverse transcriptase ; they possess RNA-dependent DNA polymerase (reverse transcriptase). The retroviruses transfer information in the form of RNA which is then transformed into DNA in the host cell. Cancer can be caused by a retrovirus. The retroviruses can cause our own cells to proliferate abnormally probably by gene control. They can also quickly mutate. Both of these characteristics could cause them to go undetected by our immune system which normally wipes out invaders. Take care, Re: Autoimmune vs Retro > I have a question in this very interesting discussion going on, which does > provide a lot of food for thought so to speak. > > What exactly defines an autoimmune disease? > > What exactly defines a Retro Virus? > > Thanks for any answers. > Jody > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Thanks , Besides that I think I am looking for something more...not quite sure what *I* even mean...but how is ANY autoimmune disease determined to be autoimmune. More and more diseases are falling into this category and I guess what I am asking is who determines what is autoimmune? Before long I expect to see Parkinson's or Huntington's diseases as well as other lumped in with the 80+ autoimmune diseases that already exist. In the 1950's when my cousin was diagnosed with SLE they didn't have a clue what it was. It wasn't until joining this group and the aard (? for autoimmune diseases) that I found out so many of them are now in this category. I'm confused. Thanks again, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi Jody, There are autoantibodies in both MS and vitiligo. MS has myelin basic protein autoantibodies, oligoclonal immunoglobulins in spinal fluid, and they have an altered IgA index. In vitiligo, there are autoantibodies to melanin and possibly dermal cells. Although most autoimmune diseases have several related autoantibodies, there are a few that don't. However, they have characteristic signs of autoimmunity when the cells are examined on biopsy samples. The thyroid in Graves' disease, for instance, is way different from normal thyroid tissue. The immune involvement is evident with increased cell size and cell growth, different granules in the cytoplasm, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi Jody- What they use to determine autoimmune disease is an abnormal immune response against self. For example, in Graves' disease we are actually making antibodies that attach to a portion of the TSH receptor in thyroid cells. The antibodies are reacting to the TSH receptor as if it's a foreign invader. In Lupus, there is tissue damage caused by autoantibodies and other immune reactions. In MS, there is inflammation that is destroying myelin of nerve cells. They are not positive that it's an autoimmune disease but indirect evidence (inflammation and the presence of mononuclear cells that are mostly T-cells and macrophages) leads experts to think it is. Does that help? In us, the presence of autoantibodies determines that it's an autoimmune disease. For other diseases, that may or may not be true. But it seems like inflammation, which is usually the body's way of attacking foreign antigens, seems to be the common theme. In these cases of autoimmune disease, the inflammation is destroying the own patients tissues. Take care, Re: Autoimmune vs Retro > Thanks , > Besides that I think I am looking for something more...not quite sure what > *I* even mean...but how is ANY autoimmune disease determined to be > autoimmune. More and more diseases are falling into this category and I > guess what I am asking is who determines what is autoimmune? > > Before long I expect to see Parkinson's or Huntington's diseases as well as > other lumped in with the 80+ autoimmune diseases that already exist. > > In the 1950's when my cousin was diagnosed with SLE they didn't have a clue > what it was. It wasn't until joining this group and the aard (? for > autoimmune diseases) that I found out so many of them are now in this > category. I'm confused. > Thanks again, > Jody > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 , That helps a lot! I still have some questions regarding how drs. or researchers determine if a disease is autoimmune...though I do understand what you are saying. I guess if ALL diseases had auto antibodies then it would make sense, but if MS or Vitaligo don't, then how can the be classified as autoimmune. Don't worry about trying to pound it into my head...your explanation has helped a lot...some days though I have to question everything, you know, like, why is a hand a hand and not a foot kind of thing <grin> Maybe this is just one of them. I want to understand their logic with how they classify things. Thanks again, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Thanks Elaine! What would similar characteristics be in autoimmune diseases that don't have antibodies...or could it just be that those with no known antibodies just haven't had them identified yet? If that is the case, will the Genome Project come into play here also? Just being really curious on all of this and trying hard to understand, which isn't easy without the backgrounds so many of you have...so thanks for all the information, patience with questions and explanations! TTYL, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi Jody- That's it! For instance the definition of MS is plaques that cause demyelinization of nerve cells. Later they found an inflammation response and (I wasn't sure about the antibodies yet because of their reluctance to classify it as autoimmune) they must have found antibodies. I think that they are reluctant to say that it's autoimmune for sure because they haven't found that the antibodies cause the inflammation which causes the plaques resulting in demyelinization. They have, however, found an association and think it's autoimmune. Take care, Re: Autoimmune vs Retro > Thanks Elaine! > What would similar characteristics be in autoimmune diseases that don't have > antibodies...or could it just be that those with no known antibodies just > haven't had them identified yet? If that is the case, will the Genome > Project come into play here also? > > Just being really curious on all of this and trying hard to understand, > which isn't easy without the backgrounds so many of you have...so thanks for > all the information, patience with questions and explanations! > TTYL, > Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Hi Jody, It's likely, there will be autoantibodies found for the other autoimmune diseases, but maybe not... since there are two separate processes that cause autoantibodies to develop. One is a cell-mediated process where white cells aggregate in the affected area, releasing chemicals called cytokines that also contribute to the inflammatory process. The other mechanism is humoral immunity where autoantibodies do their thing. Autoantibodies work in different ways. Like in GD, they stimulate the TSH receptor, and in HT they block it. In SLE and some other diseases with a renal component, they form complexes, lattice like formations where antigens and antibodies link together. These immune complexes, which are also a bad sign, impede blood flow in blood vessels. And in many autoimmune diseases, cell-mediated and humoral autoimmunity both contribute to symptoms. In some diseases, like MS and hypoparathyroidism, the cause may be autoimmune and it may not be. They think there are probably separate subtypes of these disorders. The human genome will help with some of the diagnostic issues. Right now, the focus has been on immune system genes, like the HLA antigens. But eventually, more organ specific genes will wend their way into the picture. Like the TSH receptor gene, which is on I think chromosome 21 or 14, is also referred to as the Graves' disease gene. Back to the immune system involvement... one of the standard classifications for considering a disease autoimmune is a favorable response with immunosuppressive drugs. In Graves' disease, this doesn't work because it's a diminished level of suppressor T cells (the ones that nip autoreactive cells before they develop) that largely contributes to disease development. Immunosuppressants don't work in the autoimmune pemphigoid disorders either. But the fact that something that suppresses the immune system can diminish autoimmune disease symptoms so remarkably well, is considered proof that the immune system is the underlying cause. As mentioned, the physiology of the stress mechanism causes immune system changes that lead to the production of autoantibodies. Stress is a key player in autoimmune disease development, which also explains why symptoms flare up in times of stress. And certain other environmental triggers are associated with very specific types of autoimmune disease. Like mercury--it's known to cause autoimmune kidney disorders. Unlike accidents, where you know the cause of the ailment, autoimmune diseases are difficult to link to environmental agents because of the time it takes for certain disorders to develop. But with all the research that's been going on, with immunologists from all over the world gathering to compare notes, a very clear picture is unfolding. Enough of my rambling, I ate too much sugar driving home from work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.