Re: anger

[Guest guest]

> The trick, I found for myself on this one is-

>

> Get Angry-Express (get it all out) and FUUGGEEDDAABBOUTITT.

>

> That last part is the hard part!

hehe, truer words were never spoke...

Judith

[Guest guest]

I now firmly believe that my anger will eventually kill me if i dont

let it flow. Sometimes it's letting it out sometimes it's just

acknowledging it's there. I have never liked anger as a feeling.A bad

part for me was listening to 12 step doers telling me to make a big

12 step analysis of the lead up and peak and come down that was

associated with my feelings of anger. Then i realised after a long

time that my anger does not have three parts as i was led to believe.

It's a completely allowed feeling. My pal after seeing me one day

try my big AA analysis on my anger feeling in order to kill it said

to me 'AHH GIT OVER IT!'.

Coming from a 12 doer thats abuse.

Coming from my pal who loves me it was absolutely inspirational. feel

your feelings man and screw the rest is my new logo.

> I see others get angry and I ask, why can't I do that?

>

> so I do it and it doesn't really feel good.

>

> but sometimes it feels worse NOT to get mad.

>

> and so there you are with one of those difficult choices again,

where

> there's no really good alternative, no win-win. there's always a

> win-win on tv.

>

> judith, hoping to god this only shows up once and not 3 times...

[Guest guest]

I vaguely remember this now. and I totally can hear the difference in

having someone tell you to " get over it, " depending on whether that

person is a friend who treats you like an equal, or a doer (I like

that word who treats you like a child who can't be trusted.

Judith

> I now firmly believe that my anger will eventually kill me if i

dont

> let it flow. Sometimes it's letting it out sometimes it's just

> acknowledging it's there. I have never liked anger as a feeling.A

bad

> part for me was listening to 12 step doers telling me to make a big

> 12 step analysis of the lead up and peak and come down that was

> associated with my feelings of anger. Then i realised after a long

> time that my anger does not have three parts as i was led to

believe.

> It's a completely allowed feeling. My pal after seeing me one day

> try my big AA analysis on my anger feeling in order to kill it

said

> to me 'AHH GIT OVER IT!'.

> Coming from a 12 doer thats abuse.

> Coming from my pal who loves me it was absolutely inspirational.

feel

> your feelings man and screw the rest is my new logo.

[Guest guest]

In the 15 years I was in AA, I must have done about 9 4th and 5th

steps. The internal distress of my emotional state was

increased every time I did one. What I was referring to in my

seemingly simple statements was the emphasis on Expression instead of

Suppression-which is basically what AA forced upon me-FORGIVENESS

FIRST, if you will. This PRESSURE TO forgive complicated and angered

me further. I never felt *forgiven*, why should I be so magnanimous

with everyone else?

Some days now I *chose* to be angry about something, instead of being

captivated by it. I try to get the anger out in what I believe is an

appropriate manner, and try to get on with my life.

As a survivor of several forms of abuse, I have the tendency to want

a LOT of control of the things in my life-and this causes me anger

sometimes. Today, I can evaluate better what is actually worth

getting angry, if there is anything I can do about it, and if so, do

it. Then I try to put it to bed and leave it alone, instead of

regurgitating it over and over. If I am successful with the

expression, it's easier to put it behind me. It isn't like it

doesn't come back up, but I don't beat the crap out of myself because

I didn't do it Perfectly and need to do another 4th step or something.

Personally, the way my mind works with anger and complicates things

beyond belief, my little litany works for me.

> > I now firmly believe that my anger will eventually kill me if i

> dont

> > let it flow. Sometimes it's letting it out sometimes it's just

> > acknowledging it's there. I have never liked anger as a feeling.A

> bad

> > part for me was listening to 12 step doers telling me to make a

big

> > 12 step analysis of the lead up and peak and come down that was

> > associated with my feelings of anger. Then i realised after a

long

> > time that my anger does not have three parts as i was led to

> believe.

> > It's a completely allowed feeling. My pal after seeing me one day

> > try my big AA analysis on my anger feeling in order to kill it

> said

> > to me 'AHH GIT OVER IT!'.

> > Coming from a 12 doer thats abuse.

> > Coming from my pal who loves me it was absolutely inspirational.

> feel

> > your feelings man and screw the rest is my new logo.

[Guest guest]

, Vic: Thanks for your responses. It's pretty clear to me that

I've been dealing a lot with anger since I started posting here again

in January. I remember being able to get angry, and to hold off on

expressing my anger until I was sure that it would be worth the

conflict. (or until I could express it safely, without having to face

a protracted conflict.) It's a skill I'm trying to re-learn.

Judith

> > > I now firmly believe that my anger will eventually kill me if

i

> > dont

> > > let it flow. Sometimes it's letting it out sometimes it's just

> > > acknowledging it's there. I have never liked anger as a

feeling.A

> > bad

> > > part for me was listening to 12 step doers telling me to make a

> big

> > > 12 step analysis of the lead up and peak and come down that was

> > > associated with my feelings of anger. Then i realised after a

> long

> > > time that my anger does not have three parts as i was led to

> > believe.

> > > It's a completely allowed feeling. My pal after seeing me one

day

>

> > > try my big AA analysis on my anger feeling in order to kill it

> > said

> > > to me 'AHH GIT OVER IT!'.

> > > Coming from a 12 doer thats abuse.

> > > Coming from my pal who loves me it was absolutely

inspirational.

> > feel

> > > your feelings man and screw the rest is my new logo.

[Guest guest]

" Anger & Me, Perfect Together " :

In a very small way I got a good look yesterday at why XA was dangerous for

me. I'm sure a lot of you know how planning a wedding can bring out ancient

family conflicts, well ... I was amazed to see how my mother tried to shame

me for my anger (at her & my sisters) for letting me down and once again

depending on me to take care of my tasks and theirs without complaint (long

boring story). In an instant, I saw how manipulative the dynamic can be - I

like being dependable, they like depending on me, all is well & good until I

actually need something from them. So,anyway, they let me down and for once

instead of taking care of it, I called them on it and refused to take over.

My mom steps in to lecture me on what the wedding should really be about,

and " don't let it get to you " (Bad, ). I calmly responded that if

she thinks I agree that the wedding is supposed to be about me scrambling

about like a madwoman without complaint so that everyone else is comfortable

& there is no conflict, she's wrong. In the ensuing conversation, I saw how

she still expects and depends on me to take on the lion's share of any work

(ie paying for my own college & eating pb & J sandwiches while she paid for my

older sister's rent, cigarettes, gourmet tastes, clothing, tuition, etc),

because I generally will. After all, I've had a lot invested in being the

good little responsible girl. The wakeup call for her is that I no longer

have a lot emotionally invested in pleasing her (or working a " good

program " ), and therefore anger is not such a big risk for me anymore.

In the past, I would have swallowed my anger with food and blamed my

" shortcomings " for my feelings. One of the major blocks to my " recovery "

has been the fact that when I stop using the food, I can no longer abide by

the rules as set up in my family relationships, and I get lots of negative

feedback (which I am notoriously bad at accepting).

I have needed to set up new rules for my own behavior and my relationships,

not just get better at accepting the crap that is piled on me. This is why

I personally felt that XA was encouraging me to act in ways that exacerbated

my acting out with food. I needed to learn the difference between

forgiveness and getting walked on, the difference between humility and

people-pleasing, between being needlessly aggressive and commanding respect.

I didn't find any such lessons in meetings.

THanks for listening to me rant,

PS I'm happy to report that I have had unprecedented success with removing

the bulimic symptoms from my life in the last few months. This has

coincided with my letting go of XA mindset and facing my non-theism, as well

as my participation with this group

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Re: anger

>Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:58:04 -0000

>

>I used to get angry with people in AA-and then had to NAME MY PART in

>it, which caused a lot of twisting-like you were talking about-inside

>to give myself some of the blame, whether deserved or not, because

>that was " the way " . How much damage was caused by that way of

>thinking!

>

>Yes, Sue, I was constantly analyzing my thoughts, actions and

>motivations to the point that my life was passing me by. My husband

>at the time was using drugs and screwing around, but I with my

>constant self-analysis, was thinking I was the one at fault in so

>many cases. Not only was I supposedly an alcoholic, I had food

>issues

>and I smoked and I was a sex addict (according to my husband)....

>

>Well, let me tell you today what's different. I haven't been to a

>meeting since January 1997. I doubt strongly that I am an alcoholic

>and drink on occasion. I quit smoking four years ago-can't remember

>the exact date (too much like an AA anniversary, anyway) and I eat

>what I want and am more comfortable with my body now than ever

>before. I have no sex issues. I am happy and satisfied in the

>relationship Charlie and I have. I am in therapy for the real

>problems about my personality and coping that I need to address. All

>the other " illnesses " I used to claim, are no big deal. I feel human

>today. I am not hashing and rehashing myself all the time anymore.

>

>It just goes show that what you are alluding to is a fact: That

>overcomplication of simple little things puts them right in front of

>your face 24x7 until you can't see the forest for the trees.

>I, too, would have caused my own demise, eventually. I watched a few

>people in AA actually do it. What a waste of some truly wonderful

>souls. AA's philosophy and brainwashing guilt-tripped them right to

>the edge and off the cliff. They felt they had no other choice;

>they felt trapped in AA. That's POWERLESSNESS.

>

>Jan, I know what you mean about the inventory-taking crap at the

>coffee klatches. There were cliques and people I did not like,

>either. I think the light really went on for me at one

>point that I was sitting at a table and this person said " I LOVE all

>OF YOU " and it struck me in a strange manner. The hair on the back

>of my neck was standing up and I felt sick. This person was

>delusional...or I was wrong, because I couldn't love

>everybody...Actually, today it's-I'm right to not love or even LIKE

>everybody. People do have " feelings " about the intentions of others

>towards them, and that isn't very loving sometimes, either, to say

>the least! It only took me forty-some years to figure this out!

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > >

> > > >In the 15 years I was in AA, I must have done about 9 4th and 5th

> > > >steps. The internal distress of my emotional state was

> > > >increased every time I did one.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And if you're anything like me, if you weren't " doing " a 4th,

> > > I'll bet you were thinking about it all of the time. Sometimes

> > > when I thought I could not possibly find anything else to examine,

> > > I would feel like I must be doing something wrong. I would

> > > start to feel better when I would just " leave myself alone "

> > > and stop over-analyzing. Then AA would tell me that I will

> > > never be well and I must continue this process forever. The

> > > internal distress you speak of was beyond description here.

> > > This re-hashing of the past over, and over and over is absolutely

> > > insane. I have only begun to become whole again by doing what

> > > you suggested in another post. FERRRGETTTABOUTIT.

> > > Today, I truly believe with all my heart that if I would have

> > > stayed in AA, I would have eventually taken my own life.

> > > They took the self-hatred that I had carried around my whole

> > > life and MAGNIFYED it. And it just kept getting worse.

> > > Sometimes I ask the question, " what kind of person would AA

> > > actually benefit? " The answer that I always come up with would

> > > be a person that would have no damn need to be there anyway,

> > > so therefore they would not exist!

> > > As far as anger goes.... I had never even recalled ever being

> > > angry. If anger got close, I took a drink. And I became a

> > > wonderfully passive, but miserable drunk. So, in order to " not

> > > drink, " I actually NEED to get angry. AA had me doing the

> > > exact opposite! Those a**holes were killing me.

> > > Today, if I do the exact opposite of everything they told me,

> > > (except that don't get rip roarin' drunk part)

> > > I can be pretty sure that it's gonna be a good day.

> > >

> > > Sue

> > > ______________________________________________________

> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

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[Guest guest]

> The AAssassins are used to chopping up rice farmers and peasant

girls

> who don't know how to defend themselves. That's why it's so

> refreshing when they confront the occasional ronin who decapitates

> them with one stroke and strolls away scratching his chin stubble

> while the corpse just stands there spurting blood out of its neck

> stump. Thump!

It's sickening how mercilessly some take advantage of the newcommers.

It's odd how quickly their serenity evaporates when they're faced

with someone who doesn't put up with it.