Guest guest Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have been sick) Free T4 0.85 ng/dL free T3 0.3 ng/dL This cannot be how we measure Free T3 as you would be dead,. Mine was 1.5 when I was in Myxedema Coma. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 ok I might have stuffed something up let me check it.... I meant to write 300 pg/L (? which I think is equal to 0.3 ng/L?) the wikipoedia reference ranges says 0.2-0.5 so 0.3 is inside that. your 1.5 must be 150 in these units. > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have been sick) > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > This cannot be how we measure Free T3 as you would be dead,. Mine was 1.5 when I was in Myxedema Coma. > > -- > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Tim, regardless of the units of measurement, it's the relationship between the T3 number and the RT3 number which is relevant. When you have too much RT3 in relation to T3 (even when RT3 is within range), the RT3 will block your thyroid hormone receptors. This prevents the regular T3 from entering your cells and doing what it needs to do in your body to maintain proper metabolic function. RT3 is ONLY created when your body has a problem with converting T4. Instead of converting it to FT3, it converts it to RT3. There are various reasons for this, but some of the most common are low or high cortisol, low ferritin, extreme dieting, and environmental toxins (like mercury that can disrupt the conversion process). Since you're not on any thyroid hormone right now, your own body's T4 is being converted to RT3 for some reason. You need to do a couple of tests to figure out why this is happening. One is a 4 panel saliva cortisol test to check your adrenal function. You can order this yourself through www.canaryclub.com - I believe you could get this in Australia, but not sure. Maybe one of the other members here from Aus can chime in on this. The other test is a blood test to check your ferritin level. We're pushing you to get these tests done because any time you start on a thyroid med that contains T3 (even Armour), those of us that have conversion issues seem to have a little more trouble tolerating the T3 because of the underlying problem. So, it's best to know whether you need to support your adrenals and supplement iron before starting on the thyroid med. I know you were thinking that Armour could possibly be the " magic bullet " for your issues and, for many, it is. Unfortunately, we're finding there is a growing subset of people who have these conversion problems and the T4 that is in Armour will only create additional RT3. So, for us, we need to go to a T3 only med, like cytomel for a while to clear out the RT3. By going on T3, you will suppress most of your body's production of T4 which will prevent the creation of additional RT3. Eventually the RT3 that is currently in your system will " die out " and the RT3 that has been blocking your receptors will clear and you will finally get FT3 entering your cells and THEN you will feel the benefits of the thryoid hormone doing its job. Once you've cleared the RT3, then you can consider whether to transition over to Armour or stay on T3. I've gone through this once and cleared my RT3, transitioned back to Armour, then found out from new labs that the RT3 had returned. So I'm now back on T3 and may just stay on it since I think my underlying problem is also mercury related, since I'm on a higher dose of HC and my ferritin level is also plenty good. I know there's a lot to take in on this and all I can say is to keep asking questions and reading all you can about it. There are very few docs who really and truly understand this. I have a great doc who is aware of all this, but still doesn't understand it as well as I do after having studied it for this past year. We're both learning a lot from me going through this. Keep reading this board and there are a couple other thyroid boards that most people here are members of, as well, if you're interested in reading and learnng more. Those boards are far more active and can be hard to keep up on, but they've given me an incredible amount of knowledge in a short amount of time. Here are the weblinks - the first one is more for people using Armour and don't have too many issues with adrenals, the second one is for people who also have adrenal issues and is the most active board: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormones/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ Good luck and keep asking questions, ka > > I have done the conversions to help you guys in my analysis using > http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm > > In your american units, my values are > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have ben sick) > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > no conversion factor for reverse t3 > > I compare it to these reference ranges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests > > what does this show? > > Thanks so much I am hurting everywhere > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Hi Tim, Dont worry about converting just give reults in Aussie units (with Lab ranges).I'm an Aussie too & am familiar with analysing results in our units. You will need to have RT3 tested (with FT3) to know if you have a problem there. Should also get Thyroid antibodies tested (TPOAbs & TGAbs)? There is also an Australian Forum on RTH which can tell you where & how to get Saliva tests done.May also help you find a good Doc in your area etc. Where do you live (City & State)? Dessicated Thyroid IS available in Oz. It is compounded using Dessicated Thyroid USP. Is same as whats used in Armour Westroid etc.You need a script for it & take it to Compounding Pharacist who makes it up in strength asked for (comes in caps). You can even open cap pour under tongue & take sublingually (I did). The Aussie product is similar to Canadian Erfa Thyroid. Alternatively you can import Armour (also T3) is legal to do so under personal importation rules. Still need Doc to write a script. There are some limitations (only 3 months supply at a time /only 15 months suppy in 12 minth period). Theres a thread on RTH about it. Lethal Lee -------------------------------------------------------------- > > I have done the conversions to help you guys in my analysis using > http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm > > In your american units, my values are > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have ben sick) > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > no conversion factor for reverse t3 > > I compare it to these reference ranges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests > > what does this show? > > Thanks so much I am hurting everywhere > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Hi Lee, Have you got a link for the Australian RTH group - I'm in Perth, Gail > > > > I have done the conversions to help you guys in my analysis using > > http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm > > > > In your american units, my values are > > > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have ben sick) > > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > > > no conversion factor for reverse t3 > > > > I compare it to these reference ranges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests > > > > what does this show? > > > > Thanks so much I am hurting everywhere > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Hi Gail, >>>>Have you got a link for the Australian RTH group - I'm in Perth<<< I'm in Perth too!!! Small world huh? Silly me for missing out the link.... RTH Forums Index http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/index.php Aussie RTH Subforum http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewforum.php Lethal Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Thankyou so much for your detailed reply. Please see my comments below: > > > > I have done the conversions to help you guys in my analysis using > > http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm > > > > In your american units, my values are > > > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have ben sick) > > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > > > no conversion factor for reverse t3 > > > > I compare it to these reference ranges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests > > > > what does this show? > > > > Thanks so much I am hurting everywhere > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Thanks for this. my rsults are in the other thread about pain/nerve issues. they are: > > TSH 1.8 (0.5-4) Normal (risen from 0.7 8 months ago) SI units > > T4 10 (10-25) - persistently borderline low past 6 months SI units > > T3 4.6 (3.1-5.4) Normal SI units > > rT3 321 (170-450) Normal (UNITS NOT KNOWN!!) I just dont' know the RT3 untis cause they were done at a diffferent lab. most aussie labs us SI units. I will try and get the units from my doctor next time I go. I havent have thyroid Abs tested yet. I will do that., I live in adelaide. I amn trying to import some natrure-throid. I dont have a script yet. > > > > I have done the conversions to help you guys in my analysis using > > http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm > > > > In your american units, my values are > > > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have ben sick) > > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > > > no conversion factor for reverse t3 > > > > I compare it to these reference ranges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests > > > > what does this show? > > > > Thanks so much I am hurting everywhere > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 thanks for this forum link! > > Hi Gail, > > >>>>Have you got a link for the Australian RTH group - I'm in Perth<<< > > I'm in Perth too!!! Small world huh? > > Silly me for missing out the link.... > > RTH Forums Index > http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/index.php > > Aussie RTH Subforum > http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewforum.php > > Lethal Lee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Is taking " swallowing " the caps effective as sublingual for the australian compounded stuff? It would be easier for me to get it compounded here > > > > > > I have done the conversions to help you guys in my analysis using > > > http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm > > > > > > In your american units, my values are > > > > > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have ben sick) > > > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > > > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > > > > > no conversion factor for reverse t3 > > > > > > I compare it to these reference ranges: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests > > > > > > what does this show? > > > > > > Thanks so much I am hurting everywhere > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi Tim, TSH 1.8 mU/L (0.5-4) FT4 10 pmol/L (10-25) persistently borderline low past 6 months FT3 4.6 pmol/L (3.1-5.4) RT3 321 pmol/L (170-450) TSH risen from 0.7 8 months ago) FT3/RT3 Ratio 4.6/321 = 0.014 (>0.02) Some prefer to express Ratio this way 0.014x100 = 14 (>20) > > > > > > I have done the conversions to help you guys in my analysis using > > > http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm > > > > > > In your american units, my values are > > > > > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have ben sick) > > > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > > > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > > > > > no conversion factor for reverse t3 > > > > > > I compare it to these reference ranges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests > > > > > > what does this show? > > > > > > Thanks so much I am hurting everywhere > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Wow thanks... I assume the RT3 units are correct- it was done in aussie lab and they tend to use mols rather than grams. this has given me a lot to think about. do we find a good relationship between a low ratio and symptoms? is my ratio low enough to explain my severe nerve pain in my gut and other nerve issues (tinnitus, muscle tremors, cold hands and feet, diarrhoea etc?) > > > > > > > > I have done the conversions to help you guys in my analysis using > > > > http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm > > > > > > > > In your american units, my values are > > > > > > > > TSH 1.8 (rising from 0.7 a year ago while I have ben sick) > > > > Free T4 0.85 ng/dL > > > > free T3 0.3 ng/dL > > > > > > > > no conversion factor for reverse t3 > > > > > > > > I compare it to these reference ranges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests > > > > > > > > what does this show? > > > > > > > > Thanks so much I am hurting everywhere > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi Tim, I'll try again. Post submitted even though I hadnt pressed the tab!!!! Thyroid Labs TSH 1.8 mU/L (0.5-4) FT4 10 pmol/L (10-25) persistently borderline low past 6 months FT3 4.6 pmol/L (3.1-5.4) RT3 321 pmol/L (170-450) TSH risen from 0.7 8 months ago FT3/RT3 Ratio 4.6/321 = 0.014 (>0.02) Some prefer to express Ratio this way (converts pmol/L to USA Ratio parameters) Ratio 0.014x100 = 14 (>20) So YES you do have a RT3 " dominance " problem. Your ratio should be over 20 and it is only 14!! Note some of our Lab Ranges are crap!!! Such as the RT3 range for example. I've seen some Labs use 300 pmol/L as top parameter 450 is way too high (my Lab uses this too)! Even seen some info to say anything over 300 is a problem irrespective of any ratio. However we tend to look at ratio here predominently. Of course the TSH Lab range is crap too. Should have been changed to top parameter of 3 many years ago. In fact over 2 is a problem & a HEALTHY TSH is under 1. More important is your Frees. Surprisingly your Labs FT4 range is great!!! Some Labs including mine uses 9-19!!! The RCPA uses 10-25 as well http://www.rcpamanual.edu.au/sections/pathologytest.asp?s=33 & i=609 In contrast your Labs FT3 range is far too low (as is mine). My Labs range is similar to yours. But not that long ago same Lab was much higher up to 6.6. In fact both are still too low as RCPA says 4-8 http://www.rcpamanual.edu.au/sections/pathologytest.asp?s=33 & i=622 My evaluation of your levels is as follows 1) FT3 is BOTTOM of range. This might be 'borderline' decifient but is certainly VERY suboptimal. Val says optimal is at least midrange (~17.5). RTH says optimal is top third to top quarter (over 20-21). 2) FT3 doesnt look bad IF you accept your Labs range (which I dont). AS RCPA uses 4-8 I say a spread of 4 is better. Taking 3.1 add 4 is 7.1 so I would judge your results of 4.6 against a range of (3.1-7.1). Your result is 37.5% in my range & 65% in you Labs crappy range!!! I took both RCPA pages to my Doc & she is happy to judge results against tham rather than Labs who continuosly adjust ranges to reflect the Hypo population they test!!! Optimal is TOP of range even a bit over. 3) The fact that your TSH is so low despite BOTTOM of range FT4 & low in range FT3 may suggest Secondary Hypothyroid (due to lack of TSH signalling from Pituitary). If Secondary cannot rely on TSH testing at all. In fact TSH is ONLY good to work out whether Primary or Secondary Hypothyroid!!! Your FT3 might even be higher than your " real " levels if Cortisol is low. Low Cortisol causes pooling as cant get to cells. RT3 also causes receptors to get blocked also preventing FT3 from being used. I strongly suggest you get Saliva Cortisol & blood 8am Cortisol & ACTH (to see if Secondary ir Primary AI). Full Sex Hormone testing is also recommended as well as , B12, RBC Folate, B12, Vit D, Full Iron Panel (includes Ferritin). >>>>I live in Adelaide.<<< So does RTH Aussie Forum mod Oz!! She has good Doc there if you contact her on RTH she can pass on details. She originally saw a Doc in Sydney who will treat interstate (emsail & phone) as long as you have initial face to face. Alternative to importing is Thyroid Extract from compounders. Again there is sticky on RTH Aussie forum detailing where to get that in each State. can advise there too (used to take NTH now on T3). It can be taken sublingually & was very effective (as per my test results) however I couldnt resolve my RT3 problem so went to T3 meds. I have many Amalgams & suspect its the Mercury causing RT3 (interferes with Thyroid hormones). You can request sources from Val (she will PM that) if you do want to get from overseas. Thyroid Patient Advocacy (TPA-UK) Yahoo Group actually lists some in their files you are free to download & save it. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/thyroidpatientadvocacy/ Some RTH Aussie members I know already import (Josh for one). You can always post or PM him too. Note RTH does not discuss openly but can do so privately. Lethal Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi Tim, >>>> Is taking " swallowing " the caps effective as sublingual for the Australian compounded stuff? It would be easier for me to get it compounded here<<< Sublingual is better for a couple of reasons. Convenience is one. If swallow must wait 1 hour before eating. Must also avoid certain supps such as Magnesium, Calcium, Iron within 3-4 hours too. As we recommend & most do better with 2-3 times a day dosing rather than once only you can see swallowing makes that difficult/impossible. Sublingual also is better if have/suspect malabsorption issues. That may be because of IBS, diarrhea, Liver sluggish, Celiac etc. More gets absorbed & most direct into blood stream bypassing Liver & digestion. You mention diarrhea. You really need to get on top of that (oy what a visual)! That will be causing loss of many nutrients, electrolytes & cause dehydration. Its more common to have constipation when Hypo but can still happen. I used to have bad IBS & alternated between both. You should have KFT & LFT as well as Lipids done. KFT will show if electrolytes are depleted (note tinnitis is common with that). LFT will show if Liver status (often Hypos have raised #'s). Cholesterols often elevated with Hypo as well. Often Hypoadrenals will cause Insulin Resistence too (Fasting Insulin high in relation to Fasting Glucose). Can ask for both of those & Insulin Resistence Ratio to be tested. hbA1C is also a good test (shows av Glucose over few months as opposed to 'snapshot'). Have you tried good Probiotic, HCl & digestive enzymes? Often stomach acid is low as are Pancreatic enzymes. Likley Potassium & Sodium will be low too. Maybe test for Celiac as well? Nerve problems can be many things. Often its low/suboptimal B Vits particularly B12 & Folate (B9). If you have tender points & bodywide muscle tension, aches & pains can be both Adrenals & Thyroid. I had bad pain got dx of Fibromyalgia was on heavy duty pain meds for 8 years. Havent needed ANY meds for pain since starting Adrenal meds (and no more Fibro). Cleared up well before thyroid was optimised. Lethal Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 > > Hi Tim, > > I'll try again. Post submitted even though I hadnt pressed the tab!!!! > > Thyroid Labs > TSH 1.8 mU/L (0.5-4) > FT4 10 pmol/L (10-25) persistently borderline low past 6 months > FT3 4.6 pmol/L (3.1-5.4) > RT3 321 pmol/L (170-450) > TSH risen from 0.7 8 months ago > FT3/RT3 Ratio 4.6/321 = 0.014 (>0.02) > > Some prefer to express Ratio this way (converts pmol/L to USA Ratio parameters) > Ratio 0.014x100 = 14 (>20) > > So YES you do have a RT3 " dominance " problem. Your ratio should be over 20 and it is only 14!! > > Note some of our Lab Ranges are crap!!! > > Such as the RT3 range for example. I've seen some Labs use 300 pmol/L as top parameter 450 is way too high (my Lab uses this too)! > Even seen some info to say anything over 300 is a problem irrespective of any ratio. However we tend to look at ratio here predominently. > > Of course the TSH Lab range is crap too. Should have been changed to top parameter of 3 many years ago. In fact over 2 is a problem & a HEALTHY TSH is under 1. > > More important is your Frees. Surprisingly your Labs FT4 range is great!!! Some Labs including mine uses 9-19!!! > The RCPA uses 10-25 as well http://www.rcpamanual.edu.au/sections/pathologytest.asp?s=33 & i=609 > > In contrast your Labs FT3 range is far too low (as is mine). > My Labs range is similar to yours. But not that long ago same Lab was much higher up to 6.6. In fact both are still too low as RCPA says 4-8 > http://www.rcpamanual.edu.au/sections/pathologytest.asp?s=33 & i=622 > > My evaluation of your levels is as follows > > 1) FT3 is BOTTOM of range. This might be 'borderline' decifient but is certainly VERY suboptimal. Val says optimal is at least midrange (~17.5). RTH says optimal is top third to top quarter (over 20-21). you mean free T4 right? > 2) FT3 doesnt look bad IF you accept your Labs range (which I dont). > AS RCPA uses 4-8 I say a spread of 4 is better. Taking 3.1 add 4 is 7.1 so I would judge your results of 4.6 against a range of (3.1-7.1). Your result is 37.5% in my range & 65% in you Labs crappy range!!! I took both RCPA pages to my Doc & she is happy to judge results against tham rather than Labs who continuosly adjust ranges to reflect the Hypo population they test!!! Optimal is TOP of range even a bit over. > > 3) The fact that your TSH is so low despite BOTTOM of range FT4 & low in range FT3 may suggest Secondary Hypothyroid (due to lack of TSH signalling from Pituitary). If Secondary cannot rely on TSH testing at all. In fact TSH is ONLY good to work out whether Primary or Secondary Hypothyroid!!! I have secondary hypogonadism with osteoporosis as well (I am male age 27!!!) we strongly suspect a pituitary issue (my endocrinologist) > > Your FT3 might even be higher than your " real " levels if Cortisol is low. Low Cortisol causes pooling as cant get to cells. RT3 also causes receptors to get blocked also preventing FT3 from being used. Urine cortisol has consistently been high normal 492 (171-530) (24 hour) I have had a LOT of psychological stress and anxiety but its hard to tell if these are symptoms or the cause iutself. we think it is a symptom because if anxiety is the cause we cant ee how it would cause osteoporosis > > I strongly suggest you get Saliva Cortisol & blood 8am Cortisol & ACTH (to see if Secondary ir Primary AI). Full Sex Hormone testing is also recommended as well as , B12, RBC Folate, B12, Vit D, Full Iron Panel (includes Ferritin). testosterone is definatelt extremely low, FSH and LH inappropriately normal implying absence of pituitary compensation > > >>>>I live in Adelaide.<<< > So does RTH Aussie Forum mod Oz!! She has good Doc there if you contact her on RTH she can pass on details. She originally saw a Doc in Sydney who will treat interstate (emsail & phone) as long as you have initial face to face. I am seeing Dr sinclair Bode (GP) and endo is dr george tallis > > Alternative to importing is Thyroid Extract from compounders. Again there is sticky on RTH Aussie forum detailing where to get that in each State. can advise there too (used to take NTH now on T3). It can be taken sublingually & was very effective (as per my test results) however I couldnt resolve my RT3 problem so went to T3 meds. I have many Amalgams & suspect its the Mercury causing RT3 (interferes with Thyroid hormones). Thanks for this good advice! > > You can request sources from Val (she will PM that) if you do want to get from overseas. Thyroid Patient Advocacy (TPA-UK) Yahoo Group actually lists some in their files you are free to download & save it. > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/thyroidpatientadvocacy/ > > Some RTH Aussie members I know already import (Josh for one). You can always post or PM him too. Note RTH does not discuss openly but can do so privately. > > Lethal Lee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I have UNBELIEVABLE tinnitus and inner ear issues and have had cold hands and feet for as long as I can remember. The cold hands and feet are finally starting to warm up and the tinnitus seems to be improving, but it's still a little too soon to say if this is the entire answer for this symptom for me. Others, though, have reported elimination of this symptom once they were optimized on thyroid meds. I had been on Armour thyroid since 9/07 (was on levothyroxine since 6/04) and never noticed ANY difference in my hypo symptoms on either thyroid med. It's only since I've been on T3 that I've seen any kind of improvement in symptoms. My first RT3 lab was done in 9/04 and the ratio was 18.6 and the number was in the lower third of the range or so. So, for me, even though my number was in range and the ratio wasn't horrid, I still believe the RT3 was blocking my receptors and keeping the thyroid hormone from doing anything for me. I can find no other reason for the Armour not helping me at all. I can't explain why some people who must have RT3 levels within range and ratios below optimal are healthy and others of us aren't, but I do know that for some of us, this really does cause major problems and there hasn't been enough research on it or enough docs who understand it well enough yet. ka > > Wow thanks... I assume the RT3 units are correct- it was done in aussie lab and they tend to use mols rather than grams. > > this has given me a lot to think about. do we find a good relationship between a low ratio and symptoms? is my ratio low enough to explain my severe nerve pain in my gut and other nerve issues (tinnitus, muscle tremors, cold hands and feet, diarrhoea etc?) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi Tim, 1) FT3 is BOTTOM of range. This might be 'borderline' decifient but is certainly VERY suboptimal. Val says optimal is at least midrange (~17.5). RTH says optimal is top third to top quarter (over 20-21). >>>>you mean free T4 right?<<< Yes I did. I also meant deficient (not decifient)!!! My bad:( >>>I have secondary hypogonadism with osteoporosis as well (I am male age 27!!!)<<< Well Secondary Hypogonadism plus Secondary Hypothyroid too. Maybe Secondary HypoAdrenal as well??? Oseoporosis what are you doing about that. Started Testosterone HRT? What about HCG (willalso preserve your fertility) to stimulate your Testicles to produce your OWN Testosterone? DHEA? Note there is also a " Mens Only " Subforum on RTH. Phil the mod there can gove you lots of advice. Check it out & post for his opinion on your Labs & HRT. Hope you have tested Vit D & getting that optimised. Need Magnesium, Potassium too. Vit K2 very important for bones too. I hope you arent on those awful Osteo meds. They are really bad for bones. Makes them brittle!!! >>>> Urine cortisol has consistently been high normal 492 (171-530) (24 hour) I have had a LOT of psychological stress and anxiety but its hard to tell if these are symptoms or the cause itself. we think it is a symptom because if anxiety is the cause we cant see how it would cause osteoporosis<<<< 24 hour urine Cortisol only eliminates outright Cushings (elevated Cortisol) or s (deficient Cortisol). You need to have 4x Salivary testing to see what your Cortisol Rhythm is. You mentioned an Endo...they are not the best in thses areas. Have you had Plasma ACTH & 8am Cortisol done? What about a ACTH Stim? >>>we strongly suspect a Pituitary issue (my endocrinologist). testosterone is definately extremely low, FSH and LH inappropriately normal implying absence of pituitary compensation<<<< Low Testosterone will also cause Osteo. As will low Vit D (extremely common for HypoT folks). would be very interested in any comments you have on your GP & Endo. I dont know her current Docs name. Its not an Endo though she has seen MANY over the years. >>> Thanks for this good advice!<<< You are welcome. Hope to see you here & RTH too!!! Lethal Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 > > Well Secondary Hypogonadism plus Secondary Hypothyroid too. Maybe Secondary HypoAdrenal as well??? I am making ACTH and cortisol. ACTH is low normal but cortisol is high normal > > Oseoporosis what are you doing about that. Started Testosterone HRT? What about HCG (willalso preserve your fertility) to stimulate your Testicles to produce your OWN Testosterone? DHEA? Note there is also a " Mens Only " Subforum on RTH. Phil the mod there can gove you lots of advice. Check it out & post for his opinion on your Labs & HRT. Have started testosterone gel. Have not discussed hcg or Shea- have been more concerned with the pain which does not respond to any analgesics. Trying thyroid hormone seems like a long shot but it is basically mu last hope to modify any of my symptoms. Once I have control of my life I will worry about the fertility issue > > Hope you have tested Vit D & getting that optimised. Need Magnesium, Potassium too. Vit K2 very important for bones too. I hope you arent on those awful Osteo meds. They are really bad for bones. Makes them brittle!!! Vit d has been low. Replacing it and adding magnesium has had no effect on symptoms. I am not on bisphosphonates because I am still young and hope to treat the underlying causes > > >>>> > Urine cortisol has consistently been high normal 492 (171-530) (24 hour) I have had a LOT of psychological stress and anxiety but its hard to tell if these are symptoms or the cause itself. we think it is a symptom because if anxiety is the cause we cant see how it would cause osteoporosis<<<< > > 24 hour urine Cortisol only eliminates outright Cushings (elevated Cortisol) or s (deficient Cortisol). You need to have 4x Salivary testing to see what your Cortisol Rhythm is. You mentioned an Endo...they are not the best in thses areas. Have you had Plasma ACTH & 8am Cortisol done? What about a ACTH Stim? > ACTH stim showed low normal basal ACTH and normal adrenal response to sunacthen. I originally thought my abdo pain could have been addisons but a have plenty of cortisol. ACTH 16 (10 - 50) > >>>we strongly suspect a Pituitary issue (my endocrinologist). > testosterone is definately extremely low, FSH and LH inappropriately normal implying absence of pituitary compensation<<<< > > Low Testosterone will also cause Osteo. As will low Vit D (extremely common for HypoT folks). > Yes I have both bur we think the testosterone is the main part. My endo denies that stress is the cause. Once again thankyou. I really hope and pray for an answer to these frightening nerve symptoms and pain/ nausea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 My GP decided it was worth a try and prescribed 32.5 mg of dessicated thyroid (in capsules) per day. Can anyone tell me how much this is in grains? and I have to wait until and hur has passed before I eat, right? many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I have been on this for over a day- have taken about 1 grain per day. Have immediately ntoiced that it is suite sedating, and it has amplified my pain a lot (deep abdominal pain thought to be neurologicxal in origin) My urine cortisol has been high previously so I don't think its adrenals. has this happend to anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it may be that the T4 in the Natural Thyroid is converting straight to Reverse T3 and exacerbating your problems. Can you get your doc to prescribe T3 instead of NT? Maybe someone else will weigh in with other ideas. ka > > I have been on this for over a day- have taken about 1 grain per day. > > Have immediately ntoiced that it is suite sedating, and it has amplified my pain a lot (deep abdominal pain thought to be neurologicxal in origin) > > My urine cortisol has been high previously so I don't think its adrenals. > > has this happend to anyone else? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 would it really do that so soon? > > > > I have been on this for over a day- have taken about 1 grain per day. > > > > Have immediately ntoiced that it is suite sedating, and it has amplified my pain a lot (deep abdominal pain thought to be neurologicxal in origin) > > > > My urine cortisol has been high previously so I don't think its adrenals. > > > > has this happend to anyone else? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 The last time I tried to go back to NT it was two DAYS when I started feeling more hypo. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 If I do have nerve dmage froim longstanding thyroid resistance- how soon should I expect repair or improvement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Nerve damage responds to several thuings. Look up neuropathy on Google. I take ALA, Jarrow Formula called Sustain which si SR ALA with biotin. Also B12 can help as can Benfotaimine 450 mg spread through the day. All these help reverse neuropathy. BUT once it has gotten to a certain point it may not be reversible but you can;t klnow til you try to reverse it. Strght glycemic control is also needed as high glucose causes nerve dmage to continue. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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